FYI guys, the only people who consider e-sports an actual sport are the people who play and stand to make a living off of e-sports. For the rest of us, it's called a video game.
Finnish Hearthstone Tournament Changes Policy on Women - Update
- Thread starter roseofbattle
- Start date
Point still stands, even if you exclude her based around the MtF part. Hearthstone is NOT a "high-APM" sport that requires some kind of "male-only" (what a stupid statement) processing power, if we're even gauging it by that (which I still don't buy, it's an awful argument). Hearthstone requires your brain to be functional and to know how to play probabilities, everything revolving around the meta-game can be examined by literally anyone and the play-by-play decisions give you upward of 3 minutes to make a play. There's as much reason to exclude girls from this as there is to exclude girls from taking mathematics in schools.johnsarif said:
You know what I know? That I communicate with females on a daily basis who seem to function exactly the same as me outside of our reproductive desires. Please think of the SPIRIT OF COMPETITION in HEARTHSTONE AND SAVE US FROM THEIR LACK OF TESTOSTERONE.Houseman said:
I could not give two shits about what the minute differences in brain-chemistry there is; if a woman is good enough to compete, give her the benefit of inclusion to compete, not be a backwards piece of shit and say "nope, sorry, brain's too different #gamerscience". It's not like they're offering an all-girls league either, they're just telling them to fuck off, effectively. I'd have more support for that than for what they're doing right now.
We're not talking about some scientific debate about the differences between male and female cognitive ability. We're talking about a game. Specifically, we're talking about Hearthstone; Not starcraft, not some hand-to-eye reaction-tester, it's fucking HEARTHSTONE.
Wait, poker and chess are sports but they have mixed genders. Hell, tennis has mixed doubles and that is a physical sport.
Where does this idea of "... well the physical sports do it" come from? It is divided due to physical strength, unless a none athletic man is pitted against a very athletic woman, she has no chance but playing a card game on a computer?
Where does this idea of "... well the physical sports do it" come from? It is divided due to physical strength, unless a none athletic man is pitted against a very athletic woman, she has no chance but playing a card game on a computer?
Seriously... what kind of idiot thinks that the sexual dimorphism that separates the various physical sports into male and female, would need to accounted for in competitive video game competitions. It's a fucking card game. What mental sexual dimorphism there is, I doubt is so pronounced as to make male and female competition in it, fundamentally on different levels. So... fucking... stupid...
It's like the person who designed how the leagues would be organized with no understanding of why sports are divided on sex a good chunk of the time, just copied it over without even thinking about what might be different about this kind of competition.
It's like the person who designed how the leagues would be organized with no understanding of why sports are divided on sex a good chunk of the time, just copied it over without even thinking about what might be different about this kind of competition.
As well as segregating males and females because they might think differently, I guess we'll have to segregate it further for those who are neurotypical and those that are not neurotypical. There's no real reason to, but segregation is good? Right guys?Ferisar said:
The same? Really?Ferisar said:
Based on the study I posted above:
As a side note, I'm all for gender equality. I believe that it's OK to have mixed eSports competition but that's just that, a belief. I do not have any conclusive evidence to support it or to refute it.
The same studies are often argued to entirely based on upbringing and "wiring" that we give children during their early years. We encourage those traits in men and encourage the other traits in women.johnsarif said:
And yes, the same. You have to be conscious of the differences to realize they're trivial. It doesn't somehow cause me to be unable to communicate with a woman, on a physical or a psychological level; ergo, for my purposes, it's minute. I might have as much trouble communicating with a male with whom I hold less relation.
Look, I get what you (and the other guy) are saying: there are very likely to be differences in brain chemistry, but those differences don't merit the exclusion of women from fucking video game competitions.
Maybe we should separate the two sexes completely, right? Fuck men and women ever being in the same anything. Workplaces? Women are too different. Voting? They might make a different decision. Artistry? Why? Women might draw differently then men, same with writing. Let them read only female-written books, after all, men won't understand it anyway, it's just too different.Houseman said:
Class-rooms? Nope. Playground games for toddlers? Nope. Let's get even more trivial, please! Did I make an anecdotal layperson statement? Yeah. Guess what this competition did? Do you really think they went to some study(/ies) to make this decision? No, they just did the same sweeping statement based on nothing but "how sports do it" as if physical and cognitive competition is the same thing. To the layperson, this looks ludicrous, or at the very least it SHOULD look ludicrous.
It's a hard question how and when to segregate and not. It depends where you draw the line. For me, it comes down to: "Does feature X of group Y offer them a huge advantage over other groups?". If yes, segregate based on feature X, else do not segregate.Macsen Wledig said:
Then it's irrelevant to the argument at hand. If no conclusion can be made to the differences, then until those CAN be made, there shouldn't be segregation. The fact that you're on the fence about this based on the lack of any actual evidence that would support the opposition in a substantial manner is what's weird here. Let them in, if their feeble female brains are too shit to compete, I think we'll notice it easily enough assuming there is an actual scene for women to even be in the game, (which, by the way, there isn't right now, because the competitive gaming community to this day is not only male-oriented but entirely male-minded when it comes to inclusion). We're talking about people who yell and snarl every time a girl appears on a stream, talk about her showing her tits and how good she would be to fuck. Do you really think we're actually even ready to bring SCIENCE into this? We have some social stigmas to break before we can even make the claim toward neurological differences. Until then, those are entirely trivial.Houseman said:
Dear Blizzard,
Please update your terms of use to prevent use of your IP in any tournament that segregates based on gender.
Sincerely,
The 21st century
Please update your terms of use to prevent use of your IP in any tournament that segregates based on gender.
Sincerely,
The 21st century
Since when were people deluded enough to think video games were ever a sport?
Sports require physical competition.
And that physical competition is the reason for segregating men from women. While I think it should never be a rule, and there defiantly are sports where women could do just as good as men, men would dominate a violent sport like rugby or football.
That said, seeing how games tournaments are not sports and require no physical activity, this is just bigots being bigots.
Sports require physical competition.
And that physical competition is the reason for segregating men from women. While I think it should never be a rule, and there defiantly are sports where women could do just as good as men, men would dominate a violent sport like rugby or football.
That said, seeing how games tournaments are not sports and require no physical activity, this is just bigots being bigots.
I don't see how going from "girls can't compete in games" to "girls can't play with boys at the playground" is a slippery slope. I'm using comparison to point out how ridiculous it is. If men and women ARE SO DIFFERENT that they can't compete together in a card game, than HOW ARE WE ALLOWING WOMEN to work together with MEN in the workplace? If one, the MORE IMPORTANT ONE, is currently fine, than how is the other NOT?johnsarif said: