Fire Emblem Fates Cuts Petting From English Version
- Thread starter Steven Bogos
- Start date
So the series starts making a greater shift towards waifu-fanservice pandering, then NoA decides to "sanitize" their game of that stuff. Who is this going to appeal to now? Fire Emblem fans that like seeing their series bastardized? People that enjoy games "clean" with fanservice?
Also, I hate that I have to do this. But I will. This once.
Often when I defend sexual content in games, the advocates of censorsorship will try and cast aspersions on my own character, insinuate that I have perversions - I've even seen some of these moralists suggest anti-censorship advocates are actually secretly paedophiles.
So as much as I hate being put in a position in which I need to dispel baseless accusations, I do find it helpful to declare that I have no vested interest.
As a young teenager, I loved risqu? anime, foreign cinema, late night TV, lascivious and existential literature, games with sexual undertones, all of that stuff. Not only because they titilated me, but because the art activated and used my sexual impulses to manipulate me into caring about the characters, and in extension, to caring about the story and the themes. And this is exactly what art should strive to do. Manipulate the viewer's feelings, thoughts and point of view. Through engaging my sexuality, I was drawn in and probably explored concepts and themes I never would have been interested in otherwise. I wasn't harmed by this. I wasn't turned into a rapist, I wasn't harassing women in the streets. I was just pleasured and engaged. That's all. There was no downside. I was at once sexually relieved and intellectually emboldened.
That was when I was a teenager. I'm not anymore, but the main market of this game likely are. Why deny them this? And more pointedly, why deny gay teens this luxury?
My interest in this is the same as it is for any other art. Whether that's my bafflement at the film reviewers in the 60s who cast aspersions on Pier Paolo Pasolini's reputation after he released his anti-fascism magnum opus, Salo. Or my annoyance at the critics who lunge to burn de Sade himself (one of his most ardent defenders, ironically, being noted feminist Simone de Bouvoir).
Creative freedom allows people to safely reflect on dangerous ideas. Now, you may argue that Fire Emblem isn't some esoteric tome in need of protection, and you would be right. But the principle is in need of protection. There can be no objective measure of worthy art, so there can never be a situation in which we protect the highbrow stuff whilst dismissing the lowbrow stuff. We must protect the principle. The right for a creator to express himself without moral condemnation. As professor Sommers powerfully pointed out, behaviour should be ruled by Immanuel Kant's categorical imperative, but the imagination is more permissive.
Art must be free of morality policing. It is essential to the human condition. Yes, most of these incidences of censorship so far have been minor. But the insidious effect is a culture in which self-censorship is normal. I only ask that people who support this ask themselves why they support it. No harm is evidenced to come from these games. Just-don't-play-them.
Often when I defend sexual content in games, the advocates of censorsorship will try and cast aspersions on my own character, insinuate that I have perversions - I've even seen some of these moralists suggest anti-censorship advocates are actually secretly paedophiles.
So as much as I hate being put in a position in which I need to dispel baseless accusations, I do find it helpful to declare that I have no vested interest.
As a young teenager, I loved risqu? anime, foreign cinema, late night TV, lascivious and existential literature, games with sexual undertones, all of that stuff. Not only because they titilated me, but because the art activated and used my sexual impulses to manipulate me into caring about the characters, and in extension, to caring about the story and the themes. And this is exactly what art should strive to do. Manipulate the viewer's feelings, thoughts and point of view. Through engaging my sexuality, I was drawn in and probably explored concepts and themes I never would have been interested in otherwise. I wasn't harmed by this. I wasn't turned into a rapist, I wasn't harassing women in the streets. I was just pleasured and engaged. That's all. There was no downside. I was at once sexually relieved and intellectually emboldened.
That was when I was a teenager. I'm not anymore, but the main market of this game likely are. Why deny them this? And more pointedly, why deny gay teens this luxury?
My interest in this is the same as it is for any other art. Whether that's my bafflement at the film reviewers in the 60s who cast aspersions on Pier Paolo Pasolini's reputation after he released his anti-fascism magnum opus, Salo. Or my annoyance at the critics who lunge to burn de Sade himself (one of his most ardent defenders, ironically, being noted feminist Simone de Bouvoir).
Creative freedom allows people to safely reflect on dangerous ideas. Now, you may argue that Fire Emblem isn't some esoteric tome in need of protection, and you would be right. But the principle is in need of protection. There can be no objective measure of worthy art, so there can never be a situation in which we protect the highbrow stuff whilst dismissing the lowbrow stuff. We must protect the principle. The right for a creator to express himself without moral condemnation. As professor Sommers powerfully pointed out, behaviour should be ruled by Immanuel Kant's categorical imperative, but the imagination is more permissive.
Art must be free of morality policing. It is essential to the human condition. Yes, most of these incidences of censorship so far have been minor. But the insidious effect is a culture in which self-censorship is normal. I only ask that people who support this ask themselves why they support it. No harm is evidenced to come from these games. Just-don't-play-them.
My two pennies as it were.
Does the fact that this particular feature has been censored bother me? Yes. Is it because I wanted to use it or see it as necessary? No.
The issue here is that really they should never have implemented that kind of feature, to me and clearly many others it doesn't really add anything to the game. It's my opinion only but I'm okay with that. If you disagree that's cool, I'm not here to convert you to my way of thinking.
What I'm not okay with is unnecessary censorship, which is becoming more and more common. Would it really have been the end of this game's popularity if the feature had stayed in? Of course it bloody wouldn't. I might even go as far to say as this sort of thing is why we have an age rating system. Sure some people would be moaning about this that and the other, well society likes to whinge, get over it and face the music. In the face of massive condemnation you can say that you won't do it again in future. But if you put it in the game, you felt it added something to it, so have the decency to release the game that you wanted to make. If you feel it adds nothing to the game, then remove it for everyone and accept it was a bad idea.
Now if you'll excuse me I need to go back into my shadow corner where I usually lurk from.
Does the fact that this particular feature has been censored bother me? Yes. Is it because I wanted to use it or see it as necessary? No.
The issue here is that really they should never have implemented that kind of feature, to me and clearly many others it doesn't really add anything to the game. It's my opinion only but I'm okay with that. If you disagree that's cool, I'm not here to convert you to my way of thinking.
What I'm not okay with is unnecessary censorship, which is becoming more and more common. Would it really have been the end of this game's popularity if the feature had stayed in? Of course it bloody wouldn't. I might even go as far to say as this sort of thing is why we have an age rating system. Sure some people would be moaning about this that and the other, well society likes to whinge, get over it and face the music. In the face of massive condemnation you can say that you won't do it again in future. But if you put it in the game, you felt it added something to it, so have the decency to release the game that you wanted to make. If you feel it adds nothing to the game, then remove it for everyone and accept it was a bad idea.
Now if you'll excuse me I need to go back into my shadow corner where I usually lurk from.
First off, I think people need to learn what they're talking about regarding the content that ended up getting changed. The first one, the infamous "Gay conversion" scene, was no such thing. I'm shocked that it got called that.
What actually ended up happening was that a bisexual girl (Not gay, not in the slightest. She has numerous romantic supports, and not a single one of them is female.) has troubles being around girls. This is a tried japanese trope present in anime and game alike, the stuttering dude who gets nosebleeds and faints around women. She's the same, but the gender was flipped. Soleil is a girl who faints when she sees girls, and is worried about this due to the ramifications of such a weakness on the battlefield. Now, during the course of the support, she seeks advice from the MC on what to do. The MC helps her by slipping her a potion that makes her see all men as women. Nothing else.
With the potion in her, Soleil gradually gets rid of her "Eek, girls!" weakness and manages to act normally around them. While she was doing so, she was constantly supported by the MC all the way, and Soleil gradually fell in love with the MC. When the potion wore off, she was confident that she didn't care what gender or sexual orientation the MC was, she loved him for his personality.
There's no gay conversion. The worst thing that happened was the MC (Who's got about as much social grace as a potato) drugged Soleil without her consent (Even if she did thank him for it later).
Now, the second part. The headpatting. There's no groping, the camera doesn't pan that far down, and the detection for the stylus touching actually stops below the collar. There's no stripping people at random - it's supposed to be an event that occurs between the MC and the people they're closest to. It's not even limited to girls. It's equal opportunity headpatting. The guys and the girls are all treated the same. The main problem comes with the fact that some of the romantic supports are like, 12(Which is a whole other can of worms).
I've been playing the imported version of Nohr, and it's not a mandatory feature. It's a little out of the way. It's quite useful, considering that Nohr is the more difficult of the two and there's no way to grind supports. It's not essential, however. Just a fun little bonus minigame to do between missions.
I see no reason to remove it. You can cry that it's creepy or the very existence hurts your fee-fees, but I find it incredibly worrying that the de-facto response is that it should be removed and those who did want it can get stuffed.
Imagine you're at a restaurant, and the starter is the same for everyone. Breadsticks with a variety of dips. Cheese, ketchup, mango chutney, sweet chili sauce, whatever. It's the same for everyone. You might like all of the dips and enjoy the entire experience. You might like one or two, or maybe you like all of them but one. Now, if you like all of them but one, and you demand that the sauce you dislike is removed from ALL the starters, then that just makes you a dick. You're willingly removing choice and harming the enjoyment of others for something completely optional that doesn't affect you.
Same with the rather sizable portion of people who don't eat at that restaurant and want the sauce to be gone. Same with the guys who go "Oh, that sauce is gone? Good, fuck the people who liked it."
It doesn't make you righteous, it makes you an asshole. And I can guarantee that if Nintendo came out and said "Due to the growing muslim and fundamentalist Christian demographic, the options for same-sex marriage have been removed", then the very people lauding this change would be furious.
Removing optional content for no real reason is awful, and it's one of the reasons I disliked the change made to Xenoblade Chronicles X. While localization changes are to be expected (Fire Emblem has had a long history of such changes), removing content always irks me, no matter how small the change is.
At least with FE10's change to The Black Knight's character, Autopromotes and the additional Dawn Brigade weapons, you could easily argue that they were positive changes that enhanced the experience. This change is more similar to the changes done in FE9, where Nintendo just removed content for no real reason.
Taking away an optional part of the game like this comes off as petty, and I'm disgusted by all the people supporting such a change. People need to realize that personal dislike isn't a reason to support harming the experiences of others.
I'm probably not going to buy this. I know that Fire Emblem is on dire straits and bad sales for this game could lead to the series being canceled, but I refuse to support Treehouse any longer. I love the series, but I guess I'll just keep importing the Japanese versions. I want to play the same game I'm currently playing in Japanese, only in English.
It shouldn't be so hard.
What actually ended up happening was that a bisexual girl (Not gay, not in the slightest. She has numerous romantic supports, and not a single one of them is female.) has troubles being around girls. This is a tried japanese trope present in anime and game alike, the stuttering dude who gets nosebleeds and faints around women. She's the same, but the gender was flipped. Soleil is a girl who faints when she sees girls, and is worried about this due to the ramifications of such a weakness on the battlefield. Now, during the course of the support, she seeks advice from the MC on what to do. The MC helps her by slipping her a potion that makes her see all men as women. Nothing else.
With the potion in her, Soleil gradually gets rid of her "Eek, girls!" weakness and manages to act normally around them. While she was doing so, she was constantly supported by the MC all the way, and Soleil gradually fell in love with the MC. When the potion wore off, she was confident that she didn't care what gender or sexual orientation the MC was, she loved him for his personality.
There's no gay conversion. The worst thing that happened was the MC (Who's got about as much social grace as a potato) drugged Soleil without her consent (Even if she did thank him for it later).
Now, the second part. The headpatting. There's no groping, the camera doesn't pan that far down, and the detection for the stylus touching actually stops below the collar. There's no stripping people at random - it's supposed to be an event that occurs between the MC and the people they're closest to. It's not even limited to girls. It's equal opportunity headpatting. The guys and the girls are all treated the same. The main problem comes with the fact that some of the romantic supports are like, 12(Which is a whole other can of worms).
I've been playing the imported version of Nohr, and it's not a mandatory feature. It's a little out of the way. It's quite useful, considering that Nohr is the more difficult of the two and there's no way to grind supports. It's not essential, however. Just a fun little bonus minigame to do between missions.
I see no reason to remove it. You can cry that it's creepy or the very existence hurts your fee-fees, but I find it incredibly worrying that the de-facto response is that it should be removed and those who did want it can get stuffed.
Imagine you're at a restaurant, and the starter is the same for everyone. Breadsticks with a variety of dips. Cheese, ketchup, mango chutney, sweet chili sauce, whatever. It's the same for everyone. You might like all of the dips and enjoy the entire experience. You might like one or two, or maybe you like all of them but one. Now, if you like all of them but one, and you demand that the sauce you dislike is removed from ALL the starters, then that just makes you a dick. You're willingly removing choice and harming the enjoyment of others for something completely optional that doesn't affect you.
Same with the rather sizable portion of people who don't eat at that restaurant and want the sauce to be gone. Same with the guys who go "Oh, that sauce is gone? Good, fuck the people who liked it."
It doesn't make you righteous, it makes you an asshole. And I can guarantee that if Nintendo came out and said "Due to the growing muslim and fundamentalist Christian demographic, the options for same-sex marriage have been removed", then the very people lauding this change would be furious.
Removing optional content for no real reason is awful, and it's one of the reasons I disliked the change made to Xenoblade Chronicles X. While localization changes are to be expected (Fire Emblem has had a long history of such changes), removing content always irks me, no matter how small the change is.
At least with FE10's change to The Black Knight's character, Autopromotes and the additional Dawn Brigade weapons, you could easily argue that they were positive changes that enhanced the experience. This change is more similar to the changes done in FE9, where Nintendo just removed content for no real reason.
Taking away an optional part of the game like this comes off as petty, and I'm disgusted by all the people supporting such a change. People need to realize that personal dislike isn't a reason to support harming the experiences of others.
I'm probably not going to buy this. I know that Fire Emblem is on dire straits and bad sales for this game could lead to the series being canceled, but I refuse to support Treehouse any longer. I love the series, but I guess I'll just keep importing the Japanese versions. I want to play the same game I'm currently playing in Japanese, only in English.
It shouldn't be so hard.
As a diehard Fire Emblem fan who hates Moe (I don't know how to do the accent mark, but I don't want people to think I'm talking about Moe Syszlak the bartender from The Simpsons) shit, I appreciate the cutting of these creepy elements.Paradoxrifts said:
They're doing it not just to avoid controversy, but to make the game as good as possible for fans with standards.
Yeah, I'm perverted, but I wanted to occasionally screw around with the petting mechanic ala poke'amie though I'd prolly end up doing it solely to powerlevel unit affinity if at all, and lacking interest beyond that. I mean Chespin's goddamn adoreable, but there's only so far I can go with it.
Maybe they went someplace interesting with it, but I'll never really know.
I mean the petting's completely optional afaik, and is still overall useful afaik.
Still, I can understand why they did it. There's a huge leap between prodding Machamp's groin, and Syalla's.
Eh, ah well, Still getting the games anyhow.
They're keeping the lesbian, and gay marriage, and the series has done me well in the meat and potatoes sections being tactics. The nonlinear one will prolly be my fav as I hate being railroaded and getting screwed up coz I leveled someone too much and the rest of my units are screwed over, and such. Not that i know I'll get railroaded that hard, or anything.
Maybe they went someplace interesting with it, but I'll never really know.
I mean the petting's completely optional afaik, and is still overall useful afaik.
Still, I can understand why they did it. There's a huge leap between prodding Machamp's groin, and Syalla's.
Eh, ah well, Still getting the games anyhow.
They're keeping the lesbian, and gay marriage, and the series has done me well in the meat and potatoes sections being tactics. The nonlinear one will prolly be my fav as I hate being railroaded and getting screwed up coz I leveled someone too much and the rest of my units are screwed over, and such. Not that i know I'll get railroaded that hard, or anything.
Did having the option make the game worse? No?erttheking said:
Also to answer your question, yes, someone is probably going to miss that. You have a pretty fucked up way of thinking as far as I'm concerned. In your mind, we need to have a reason to keep things instead of having a reason to remove things. There is no reason to remove it, so why was it removed? You could go through the game entirely without petting your teammates. Yet you actually want that no one can do it because you dislike it.
You know, I think it did make the game worse. With that there, you have to actively avoid looking at the game making a fool of itself if you want to continue to take it and its characters atleast somewhat seriously. It just doesn't suit the series.BiH-Kira said:
Adding more does not neccesarily make something better. It's like... sex scenes (or really, any scenes that involve nudity) written by David Cage. They're not the shortcuts to maturity he thinks they are and just end up making everyone feel uncomfortable.
Besides, stuff like this does say a lot about how the creators feel about their game and their audience. Touching minigames like this are usually the domain of sleazy fanservice games that hope the 'sex sells' thing is true. If Intelligent Systems and Nintendo think they need to pander to the nether regions get players' attention, well, shame on them.
No, the way it's made is you have to actively go and search for it to make the game "make a fool of itself". It's a features on the side and there is no way you can actually do it by accident.NPC009 said:
Also based on your post, you actually don't know what the petting is about, right? It seems like you believe you can just go and grope anyone however you want, when it's in reality just a pet on the head. So it's certainly not "pandering to the nether regions".
This reminds me of Japan's issues with frottage/toucherism. Maybe that's why they're cutting it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frotteurism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frotteurism
boo, nintendo, boo. You were already going full pokemon with the "One game for the price of two." You can't just remove Fire Emblemon amie like that. I mean, hell. the patting is restricted to the top of your waifu of choice's head, and potentially a saucy eye poke. There isn't anything sexual about it. It's not like a full on grope or anything. I seriously can't tell who would kick up a fuss over something like that being in-game.
The way they're going, all the swords in the next game will be replaced with walkie talkies.
The way they're going, all the swords in the next game will be replaced with walkie talkies.
Ahh, i wondered where all the controversy was occuring recently. Heh! See, this is why i can't get into the whole Japanime, JRPG scene. It's all too freudian. And really, stroking easily pleased, prepubescents for their suggestive reactions?...I wouldn't want anyone to walk in at that moment and get all judgey on my ass, for completely reasonable reasons. Nintendo, you are funny. No need to beat around the bush (or lack thereof, pun initially unintended), just be honest with your suspect fantasies. Bayonetta is about as straight as they're gonna be with us, isn't it?
Unit acknowledgements for using the touchscreen to select your units could've added something to the game, a la most RTS games. Complete with "Stop poking me!" quotes for selecting the same unit several times in a row.Revnak said:
I'm thinking Nintendo is just doing this because the West, for lack of a better term, is still figuring itself out as it works through its awkward puberty phase. I just say no one is allowed to complain about "censorship" over anything when they clearly wanted this to be removed. But then again we're dicks like that.