Fire Emblem Fates Cuts Petting From English Version

[FirstNameLastName]

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Yeah, but usually games fall into some kind of niche where they work their way around it. Either the enemies are cartoonishly evil (Most of Fire Emblem) the heroes are kinda psychotic (GTA, Borderlands 2) or they actually explore that morality. I do get where you're coming from though. Though the thing I'm trying to get at is tone. With games with violence tend to match their tone with their level of violence, and it gets to be problematic when they don't (Welkin in Vaklyria Chronicles talking about how he loves nature when driving towards the enemy lines in a tank makes him sound like a psychopath) I guess I just have my doubts of the game being able to come up with a tone that'll work.

Probably because incest is still rather taboo. Also your sister is considerably younger than you.

I agree that mishandling such things can completely fuck the tone, my point was more of a moral one, that portraying it in a more light hearted way that doesn't take a stand against it shouldn't be considered off limits or "too far". Maybe it's just because I'm fairly lax when it comes to sexuality, so unless there are consent issues I file it under "weird shit I'm apathetic to."

I feel the need to admit that I'm fairly squicked out by incest even though I can't really admit to having a good reason to. One thing I feel a bit more comfortable being squicked out by is the relationship being between a much older person and a younger person. It tends to work better outside of a family but inside of a family there's implications of an unequal power balance. If they want to tackle incest, they should be able to. I'm just pointing out problems I have with the concept. One that I admit is totally irrational on my part, and one I feel isn't so irrational. I'm not against it entirely, I've just got doubts about the quality of the end result.

Thanks for putting up with me not being that calm by the way. I've had a hell of a night and I haven't exactly been composing myself.

I'm not sure what the thanks is for, this conversation seems rather civil.

As for being grossed out by incest, it's not that I don't understand that. In fact, I'm more or less in the same boat, in that from a rational and philosophical standpoint I regard it as perfectly fine, but despite how lax I am about such things that doesn't mean I'm not going to be taken aback if someone revealed they were screwing a blood relative. The same can be said for plenty of other sexual activities; while I'm fine with pretty much any porn (excluding child porn, of course) that doesn't mean I'm not going to pull a disgusted face every time I see some weird inflation porn, or scat porn, or young people screwing the elderly, or thin people screwing the morbidly obese. I still find a lot of weird fetishes to be repulsive (and often funny), but I tend to remind myself that disgusting is not the same thing as immoral, and likewise, immoral does not and should not necessarily mean illegal, despite the common overlap. As for power balances, it can definitely be an issue, but that's more of a case by case problem that exists in all relationships.

But back to this whole Fire Emblem controversy, I'm still somewhat unsure over whether the target audience would be put off by this petting mini-game. I would have thought the people who played these games would be accustomed to Japan's weirder side, so this whole thing comes off as them attempting to "appeal to a wider audience."

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

So I just looked up what this actually is, and ...
Effeminate, anime guy bordering on androgynous; fox tail and ears; weird fan-service mini game; yep, this is about as Japanese as it gets. I can sort of see why this type of thing isn't expected to fly with Western audiences, but then again, what's the overlap between people who are interested in this game and those who have a low tolerance for Japanese weirdness?

That's a good point, and in a way it could justify the other - creepy, badly written, idiotic - scene that's been left out of the Western release. If someone's going to buy an already distinctly Japanese game, then they'll likely be familiar or okay with the weird wackiness, from mishandled gender politics to stroking screens to pet--- I don't know what that guy's supposed to be...

But isn't this all just Nintendo being absolutely feckin' stupid? And spineless? Surely they're entirely to blame - not those pesky 'SJW's' the conspiracy theory nutjobs keep blaming. If the game launched replete with the cut content and screen stroking, how much flak would it or Nintendo really get? Weird Japanese game has weirdness in - who'd a thunk it. I'd never touch (arf.. ) it, and those who are into these games would. The world keeps spinning, problem solved.

 

[Orga777]

But back to this whole Fire Emblem controversy, I'm still somewhat unsure over whether the target audience would be put off by this petting mini-game. I would have thought the people who played these games would be accustomed to Japan's weirder side, so this whole thing comes off as them attempting to "appeal to a wider audience."

This is wrong. The last game sold very well. With good word of mouth, and a new 3DS for the game coming out, this game is expected to do better. Not everyone is going to be comfortable petting fictional CG girls/guys to make them like you more. Even fans of Japanese media will find that weird. I know I do, and I watch anime a lot, giant monster romps like Ultraman and Godzilla frequently, like Kamen Rider (sometimes) and love JRPGs the most of any other type of RPG. Petting a 2D character is still weird and I would say would be for 90% of the US audience that would play the game.

 

[Mister K]

So the animation itself is a character reacting to a pat on a head? Why not change only character lines then? Replace, I don't know, "pet me one more time and my clothing will dissapear, onii- chan" with "You are a nice person" or "Aww, thats so nice of you".

 

[Orga777]

So the animation itself is a character reacting to a pat on a head? Why not change only character lines then? Replace, I don't know, "pet me one more time and my clothing will dissapear, onii- chan" with "You are a nice person" or "Aww, thats so nice of you".

Why have the petting at all then? Just like gratuitious fanservice, it is pointless and distracting.

 

[JagermanXcell]

I'm not too rustled by this mechanics inclusion in the JP version or by it being removed for the Western version.

I'm more so baffled that THIS is what's saving the Fire Emblem franchise from getting thrown under Nintendo's rug with Metroid and F-Zero:
Waifu shipping, drugging, and... petting.

Makes you really miss Radiant Dawn's writing. The sooner that or Path of Radiance hit the e-shop, the faster I can ignore this direction they're taking with the series.

 

[CyanCat47_v1legacy]

i'm not sure what i think about this decision. since you can seemingly "pet" women and men it's not objectifying or dehumanizing either any more than the other. however the question is how extensive the system is. if it's just a pat on the head it doesn't really seem that offensive. if you can pet them anywhere i can definately see why they would reove such a system as this could be potentially making a game mechanic out of sexual harassment

 

[Elfgore]

Who is the target audience of Fire Emblem games in Japan? Cause I sure as shit hope it ain't kids.

Anyway, I'll never support the removing of a video game feature. Best to just default it to "off" and let the player decide to turn it on. Everyone wins and everyone is happy... or at least they should be.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Ten bucks this is actually thanks to all the annoying fan art that cropped up when you could do the same in Pokemon X/Y. Maybe after that annoyance, Nintendo just said "Fuck that, not having a repeat of that shit again"

 

[Davroth]

So the animation itself is a character reacting to a pat on a head? Why not change only character lines then? Replace, I don't know, "pet me one more time and my clothing will dissapear, onii- chan" with "You are a nice person" or "Aww, thats so nice of you".

Why have the petting at all then? Just like gratuitious fanservice, it is pointless and distracting.

It was in the original release. Why go through the trouble of cutting it?

Just because you don't like it doesn't give you the right to tell other people they can't have it.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

What the hell?? Why in the world are you comparing Fire Emblem to a fucking panty fighter? You realize the dramatic difference in budget and expected return between these two games, among a million other differences. If Senran Kagura gets a hundred thousand in sales outside of Japan, it did well. If Fire Emblem does, they stop localizing it. That's not even an exaggeration, that's literally what they did. You cannot compare the sales expectations and target audiences of these two dramatically different games.

I mean, I'm not against niche games like Senran Kagura existing or being made, but fuck, that's just not what Fire Emblem is.

Both games are equally Japanese and "anime", how popular one or another is is besides the point. Also, senran kagura is a hugeboobs brawler not a panty fighter, it has some great visual novel bits too. Honestly the story is much more captivating than FE plots so I am not really appreciative of treating it as an irrelevant game.

Ultimately, the point was that westerers won't explode by playing a petting minigame, this whole attitude is silly and puritanical. If SK had a T rating it can't be that serious. I don't think FE is going for an E rating.

 

[Dr. Crawver]

Wait, are we talking about petting like you could do in pokemon? Really?

I mean ignoring the sheer level on condescension going on with that (you're part of my army, I get to pet you like an animal), isn't it straight up the opposite of how people work? I mean a surefire way to get someone to get really creeped out by you, even if they liked you/had interest in you before, is to get too handsy? Can work on animals. Humans? Not so much.

It's another change I have no problem with. It's not as arguably required as the other one, which just had red flags all over the place, this one just seemed like silly game design. Wouldn't have particularly bothered me in the same way at all. It's just stupid.

 

[Fox12]

Oh no...that was holding the game together.

Oh dear, if I can't rufie gay people and gently pet them, then why even play this game?

Fire Emblem's getting fucking weird, man.

 

[Dr. Crawver]

I'm hardily the first person to make this rather stale observation, but isn't it strange that games where you can drag an innocent old lady out of her car and slit her throat, our douse a dog in petrol and set it on fire in front of the owner, is seen as acceptable content by Western gamers, but ploughing your sibling is just too.
As fun as it is to laugh at Japan and their weirdly sexual media, I can't help but recognize that the content of our media depicts far worse atrocities than the strange sexual acts of Japanese media.

Yeah except most games don't portray slitting the throat of old women as something cute and adorable. My concerns are the game portraying the incest in the typical cutesy manner that all Fire Emblem romances are portrayed as. When Jaimie and Cersei were a couple of Game of Thrones, it was loving (Until Cersei went bananas) but it was still very dysfunctional. I overplayed my reaction but I'm really more annoyed than anything else. I just feel like this is going to be a sappy oversimplification of all the baggage that would come with a brother-sister relationship.

Also I don't think this is a really a Japanese culture thing. I know they like to have romance between adopted siblings but I've never really heard of them being really into blood brother sister relationships

Even so, there's plenty of violence in games that isn't really justified but the morality of it is completely brushed over, particularly when it concerns rival factions. I know this tends to be how people in real life view conflicts, with all members of the opposing faction declared evil, but still, how many times in videogames have you killed a bunch of guards who probably weren't evil people? Often in RPGs the other people are treated as a generic mob; no different to a wolf or giant spider.
when compared to the kinds of violence that videogames often have, I really don't see why I should care even the slightest bit about incest. After all, is not like people will play the game and immediately say "Oh no, now that I've witnessed incest without any heavy-handed condemnation I no longer find it repulsive. I guess I'm now sexually attracted to family members. Damn you Fire Emblem!"

Now, I can see why it would be deemed unmarketable to western audiences, but I don't see why I or anyone else should be annoyed, angered, upset, outraged or bothered in the slightest, especially since I'm pretty sure it's optional anyway.

All I can say is it's nintendo.

This will be marketed as a family game.

These changes are not for us. They're for parents buying this game for their kids.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

Both games are equally Japanese and "anime", how popular one or another is is besides the point.

No. Thus the decision to remove the petting game. Generally Fire Emblem is just typical fantasy, and the characters would feel just as at home in a western title as an eastern one. Ike and Hector are just strong brutes (with Ike being comparatively simple), Ephraim, Eliwood, and Roy are knight in shining armor types (with Ephraim being a bit more blunt), Micaih, Lyn, and Erica are all kind and gracious women. The most anime thing about any of them is that Ike is shipped with dudes. Unless you're very specifically talking about Awakening, which still doesn't match the level of "weird Japanese shit" that is a panty fighter, I don't see your argument.

Also, senran kagura is a hugeboobs brawler not a panty fighter, it has some great visual novel bits too.

So its a panty fighter you're using another term for???

Honestly the story is much more captivating than FE plots so I am not really appreciative of treating it as an irrelevant game.

Firstly, you can go ahead and think that, I won't stop you, but I doubt we'd agree. Secondly, I'm not dismissing it, I'm saying that it and Fire Emblem are two completely different types of game. Comparing Senran Kagura to Fire Emblem is like comparing Fire Emblem to Dead Rising. It doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.

Ultimately, the point was that westerers won't explode by playing a petting minigame, this whole attitude is silly and puritanical. If SK had a T rating it can't be that serious. I don't think FE is going for an E rating.

The point isn't that it would be too sexual. The point is that it would be really fucking weird, in a game that's trying to go for a somewhat broad audience, or at least a broader audience than a panty fighter.

EDIT: Also, something I forgot, these games are largely marketed to preteens outside of Japan. I don't know how well that gels with bizarre petting game.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Well according to the SJW-Elite on Twitter, if one is against this change at all then one is a basement dwelling cheeto eating gamer gator who should be murdered at the alter of Arthur Chu and MovieFuck... I mean moviebob... I mean FUCK-MOVIEBOB. There we go.

I personally don't really care beyond Nintendo just be oversensitive again with people... Look you want to take out the gay conversion magic potion spell? Go ahead. I don't quite understand why Magic is allowed to do all these fantastical unrealistic things that it should be able to change ones sexual preference but whatever, fine, I get it. Cause people get sent to camps in the US by their parents and end up commiting suicide. Kinda a big deal. Ok. It's a throwaway scene anyway, not important. So is this petting game, doesn't really change the core gameplay. Do it. Hell the only reason people care about this now is cause they changed the first thing.

But when I can't use a Mii-Fighter on Super Smash Bros because people are going to put penis's on the face of them or even name my Animal Crossing town or hell even name the Pokemon I capture what I want? Then that's going PAST being politically correct straight into supernova. Yes, I'm still sore I bought a WiiU and I can't even use CM Punk online.

 

[Dr. Crawver]

But when I can't use a Mii-Fighter on Super Smash Bros because people are going to put penis's on the face of them or even name my Animal Crossing town or hell even name the Pokemon I capture what I want? Then that's going PAST being politically correct straight into supernova. Yes, I'm still sore I bought a WiiU and I can't even use CM Punk online.

I agree with you. These are things I would love to not be blocks that exist. But do realize these don't exist because nintendo are scared what "SJWs" think. They're scared what parents think. An offended parent won't ever buy from them again for their kids, and will encourage all their friends to not buy these games for their kids either.

 

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

Well it was the logical outcome, the big companies will always listen to the professional press no matter how hard Gamergate or their allies protest.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

But when I can't use a Mii-Fighter on Super Smash Bros because people are going to put penis's on the face of them or even name my Animal Crossing town or hell even name the Pokemon I capture what I want? Then that's going PAST being politically correct straight into supernova. Yes, I'm still sore I bought a WiiU and I can't even use CM Punk online.

I agree with you. These are things I would love to not be blocks that exist. But do realize these don't exist because nintendo are scared what "SJWs" think. They're scared what parents think. An offended parent won't ever buy from them again for their kids, and will encourage all their friends to not buy these games for their kids either.

*sigh* yeah... They're probably still operating with the Japanese mindset that all these games are really meant for children.

Blech. I'm probably just frustrated with the whole system. There was a time where people just made shit and hoped it sold well, now they're making art designed to sell well... which kinda goes against the games as art shit. Go capitalism, I suppose.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

Go ahead Nintendo.

Keep making changes that aren't needed.
To appease people that weren't going to buy your game anyway.
To impress people that hate you.

See how far it takes you.