First Person: Skyrim is Soulless

[CaptainMarvelous]

200+ hours in, having assassinated political leaders, become archmage of the college, restored the thieves guild to a former glory and in turn now command it, and even walked through Sovngarde to defeat the firstborn of Akatosh, there is no consequence for it. At no point do bandits cower, challenge, or respect it, saying something like "Shit! The Dragonborn! Fight for our lives, boys!" or "The Dragonborn! Think of the stories they'd tell of us if we killed 'im!". It's so token and empty. The only people that respect your status are those of the various groups you can join. It's gratifying to hear the other thieves or Dark Brotherhood members bow their heads respectfully, showing that yes, you are capable and worthy of being the leader. But at no point does one of them say "Not only the head of our little family, but in charge of the companions too!" It belies what has really happened. It's a pool painted to look like it's full of water--it might look really wonderful, but any observation from less distance shows it to be a bluff.

The most change I've seen was that you can ask a couple of people around town how things feel now that the Stormcloaks are in charge. Most of them tell you that not much has changed, which really makes the whole "civil war" thing seem like this happens a lot, rather than being some kind of grand rebellion. Big whoop.

It reminds me of where Dragon Age 2 did things right; by the third act of the game, bandits, attackers, and assassins can all mention about the champion. The fearsome Qunari near revere you, which doesn't stop them from attacking, for they consider it a test of worth of themselves to fight you. People start going to crazy extremes to try and fight you, knowing your prowess. Lines they wouldn't normally dream of crossing become the only feasible way to defeat the champion, for whatever reason they feel they need to do so, and in doing so there's clear evidence of what you're capable of.

But in Skyrim? No one cares. The Jarls shouldn't be slumped in their chairs when I come bursting into their halls, they should be intrigued or bemused that here's this Argonian who would come before them without reason. But nope, it's nonchalance and apathy all around. Never once does it cross the mind of the vigilants of Stendarr to attack me on sight, while I'm wearing three Daedric weapons on my person, and full Daedric armor about my body.

What's even more annoying? My armor and weapons get more respect and/or fear than I do, barring the times people have such little health that they're asking for mercy--which, if granted, means nothing, as they just stand back up and attack again. Only rarely do they flee from my demonic appearance, my warped and spiked mace, my all-consuming fires.

You'd think word would get around that the Argonian who's now in charge of the college has been seen breaking into people's houses, or leaving an area where a dead body would later be found. You'd think someone might make a connection here or there. Tough luck on that one.

See, while I can agree with some of this (particularly the Vigilants of Stendarr thing), a lot of the complaining that "Oh, I'm leader of X now and no-one notices" can be summarised with context. No common person should know that you're the leader of the Dark Brotherhood and even if they noticed they'd hopefully keep their damn mouth's shut, the only ones who notice/have the guts to say anything are the guards. Same for the Thieves Guild because it's like going to the head of the Mafia and shouting "HEY! I hear you lead the mafia?" most NPCs apparently have self preservation instincts to say nothing about your Thieves Guild membership for fear of having their stuff nicked. Benefit and drawback to secret societies, you aim to keep yourself secret. The College isn't all that well known, pretty much none of the townsfolk are aware of ANY of the mages save for the small hold where an old professor is staying because Skyrim and the Nords seem to be quite anti-magic (which is odd for a soulless game to have an opinion on a fundamental game mechanic but, eh, popular opinion holds sway) and the Companions... yeah, that one should get around a bit more, people can tell you're a werewolf faster then thy can tell you lead the Fighter's Guild.

Personally, not related to the above post, I take issue with the accusation the game is soulless because of a few elements [POSSIBLE SPOILERS?]. The Sanguine Rose quest (which was the point where, yes, I felt involved in the world by making a mess of it) and the quest with Barbas, because I didn't even finish that quest for ages because I loved having a talking dog sidekick follow me everywhere. I played as a Breton and I didn't stand out all that much so I didn't find it THAT weird when no-one really acknowledged my feats. They acknowledged me when I caught the Vampire and suddenly it was all hands on deck, let's kill this guy.
And I also wound up killing High Elves on principal.
I like to play these sort of games with the moral high ground goodie two shoes type character but whenever I passed a group of Thalmor they'd just say SOMETHING and that'd be it, we were in a fight, I don't even understand how I could get provoked every single time and have to sprint across the marshes to Whiterun to avoid being arrested. Maybe I just played it too immersed but when random NPCs with no personal dialogue can provoke a reaction that says the game has soul to me. Also, it made me genocidal so that's probably not great.

 

[Ratboy601]

I agree in many ways with this article. I think they spread themselves thin (Bethesda) and a lot of things that would help with immersion get lost in simply trying to create something so vast, dynamic, and complex. Its amazing these games get released at all. Would you prefer that they take 5+ years to complete a single storyline and linear game environment like Valve? I think its a toss up frankly.

I saw this comment already, but I still found it funny that right after reading this, I did a dark brotherhood mission and who did they want me to kill... our favorite indifferent house maid Agnis!

 

[Altefforr]

See, when I met Agnis... I had the complete opposite reaction.

Here was the perfect character to exemplify how the game has a soul. It's self aware. She knew even before the bandits were killed at her feet that someone else was going to come along anyways, and it didn't matter in the least. She'd seen it before. She'd see it again.

I've played the hell out of every Elder Scrolls game ever made. This is the most alive a world has ever felt for me.

I'm not going to argue with you that there is some aspect of choice and relativity in Skyrim; but Bethesda lost its touch. If you've played every Elder Scrolls game extensively, and you feel Skyrim is the most "alive"; then we are going to disagree very thoroughly.

Spoiler: My take on the Agnes factor.

Yes she had dialogue that could lead you to believe she's seen it all; Orcs, Vampires, Bandits, Imperials - this lady simply likes being a janitor and gives no fucks who she cleans for. But it's soulless. She may have seen it all, but there simply was no reaction to the slaughter of her current employers. There are things, many things, in Skyrim which kill immersion. I italicized kill, because it's pseudo; it's as if Bethesda concentrated on making this big huge world full of all these choices - but not a single choice has any impact or weight in the world. You have to do all the work, it's simply soulless.

For example, in Morrowind, if you became revered in your early career with the Imperials or the Temple, the Ashlanders wouldn't even talk to you, some would go as far as to attack you on sight! You would have to work at gaining their trust in order for you to prove you're the Incarnate. Do enough good in the world? A dark brotherhood assassin will be sent after you!

There's also the issue of hand-holding, Skyrim is, to say the least a childish game. The dialog will never send you to a dictionary, never make you curious or engaged in the moment; you simply are told what is and what isn't and it's left at that. There's a huge gap in the suspension of disbelief for the player. There is always a big huge "The dungeon you're looking for is here sign" on the map. And to make matters even more casualized, there's a CLAIRVOYANCE spell, which literally makes a bright glowing path on the ground for the children to follow. It's like Bethesda KNEW that a large group of the players that would buy the game, are going to be under the age of the ESRB rating, and they simply catered to their every need. You can't kill the Jarl, he's immortal, you can't kill this kid, that's evil and shouldn't be in a video game; the list is endless.

Another example from Morrowind, during the quest 'Vivic Contacts', Casius Cosades tasks you with speaking to three informants. The Argonian contact is in a bar, and he's being pestered by racist thugs. He asks you to help him out, and you can do this in a variety of ways. If you're a skilled silver-tongue, you can convince them to leave with merely your words. Or, you could bribe them if you had enough gold in your pockets. Lastly, you could simply attack them; but that would be illegal - so you could coax them into doing so, or you could get the Argonian contact to follow you disregarding the thugs, at which point they get pissed off and attack you, giving you the right to defend yourselves.

I'll never be able to make the full argument I wish I could, because I don't have the heart to play through Skyrim fully. If you want to learn more about why people dislike Skyrim, I'm going to link a video or two that make some very good points, and explain the problems with the game that many people have.

Suspension of Disbelief, Immersion, and the "Wow this world is real"-factor;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZUynhkal1I&list=LL3DVL4-LaCcbQe0BJlOTVgw

Simpler arguments as to why Skyrim is bland and soulless;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JweTAhyR4o0&list=LL3DVL4-LaCcbQe0BJlOTVgw

So, sorry that you were the one getting quoted, but "I've played the hell out of every Elder Scrolls game ever made. This is the most alive a world has ever felt for me." really struck a bad chord with me.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

I get around this problem by, firstly, lowering difficulty to the lowest possible setting. Then maxing my destruction, and 75% all the other magical skills ... leaving all but one handed and stealth at their starting levels (these two skills I raise to 50) .... The reason why I do this is because of this dilemma. That there is, more often than not, indiscriminate looting. So I like to think of myself (and hence make a character as closely resembling as possible) as Lina Inverse, from the Slayers anime.

Trust me, it works.

Make a magical girl, and pretend to be Lina Inverse ... and then loot with glee. Then picture all the faces of the poor, ragged commoners who you leave to their poverty when you raid a bandit fort.

it's actually really addictive to dual cast a master level destruction spell and be like "Dragon~~ SLAVE!!!" ... and watch bandits burn. Then picture yourself tossing up and down a collection of gold coins you've stolen from the corpses of the bandits, whistling a jaunty tune as you wander the popular roads (at walking pace only to make the inevitable trip andquesting between cities and realms all the more visceral) from towns, to inns, to dungeons, to towns once more.

 

[rodeolifant]

There's only so much that one can do. In Skyrim, there's thousands of people they wrote dialogue for, and you can talk to everyone. They have their own little scripted lives - they go to work in the morning, grab a beer after and then hit the sack. Same with Agnes. She; in a castle run by bandits. She cleans it, sits down for supper and hits the sack.

That to me, is the best any game has done in creating a living, breathing world. I am, very much looking foward to Witcher 3, as I expect they've done a tremendous job at just that.

To be fair, I enjoy good dialogue and backstory for everyone I meet. I love cinematic portrayal of characters like in the Mass Effect series. But I also understand how much work goes into creating that.

 

[CombustibleKoala]

It would seem to me that the fact that you found yourself unable to steal from this woman even though there was no game mechanic keeping you from doing so would demonstrate the incredible soul of the game. You found a reason to care about someone, and become interested in their life and wellbeing for reasons that weren't scripted in. That's the most amazing thing that a game can do- once you arrive at in-game empathy you have found the game's soul, and maybe your own.

Maybe Agnis did not demonstrate a conventional reaction to her surroundings- but she made you pause and consider her, and your own actions.