Flash Game Makes Players Beat Up "Tropes vs. Women" Creator

[Sandjube]

I'd be more surprised if I were surprised.

 

[rbstewart7263]

Bayonetta is not sexist many sex positive feminists would argue that it is sex positive feminism which i would agree with.

though both are reaching I doubt that the developers were trying for either id argue that sex positive feminism has a stronger case than anita and her camp.


heres a video detailing the strong differences between sex positive feminism and sex negative feminism or anti pornography feminism as it was known in the 80's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDtyrK1butI&feature=g-hist

 

[sideshow]

I apologise for the misunderstanding. I must admit my level of concentration while writing my previous comment was low at best.

Yes, the women contradicts herself time after time after time. this is no different to political
or religious talk shows (or really ANY youtube channel, eg Zerowolf64). I would like to analyse this project of hers because i'm curious to see where the contradictions are in that particular subject matter. its like how you'd see a bad movie. yeah, you know its bad but you see it anyway for the unintentional comedy in it and just how bad the movie is. See also "The Room". thats kinda what i'm getting at here. but again, i apologise in advance if anyone but me doesn't understand my logic.

You can have an opinion on her work BEFORE her final Tropes vs Video Games project is finished. She has said plenty already.

maybe its my paranoia but I'm going to assume you said this as if you would say "you know its ok to say no to drugs" in the friendliest and reassuring of ways.

 

[rbstewart7263]

agreed sir. agreed.

I dont know about all this comradery and good will on the escapist...Makes me think something bad will happen? maybe we should argue incessantly so as not to upset the delicate and necessary balance that is the escapist forums! lmao jk

 

[Treblaine]

Something that annoys me about Zelda is that yeah she gets set up as a pirate or whatever then she STILL gets kidnapped just to forward the plot. Why? Ganondorf can still take over the kingdom without a damsel in distress. Zelda could be an ultimate badass ninja pirate and she would still get kidnapped by Ganon it's kind of lame.

You consider this might be for a reason other than an anti-woman conspiracy?

It's pretty common in all films for allies to be taken prisoner in the final act, male or female. Han Solo being frozen in carbonite, fine because he is a man, but if it was a woman? Indiana Jones' father in The Last Crusade, if it is OK because he is a man rather than a woman, isn't that sexist? My point it you can't jump to conclusion that just because it is happening to a female character it is happening to her BECAUSE she is female.

The point is, in a story characters you relate to and care about are going to get taken prisoner so that then EVERYTHING then hangs on the protagonist to resolve the situation and there is direct consequence for screwing up. That could be an old war buddy, father, brother, The President, some other VIP, whatever.

When Sully got Kidnapped in Uncharted, was that sexist? Was the DARPA chief and Armstech president in Metal Gear Solid each a "damsel in distress"? When Jean-Yves got kidnapped in Tomb Raider 4, was it sexist for Lara to go rescue the bumbling portly man? There is no point taking a hostage that the protagonist doesn't care about and some of the time it's going to be a female character.

The kidnapping WAS to forward the plot and you have to respect that, it was not to fulfil some agenda. Listen to yourself, how different are you from the conservative talk show host who rant about the "gay agenda" in the media. There is no agenda, no one is trying to indoctrinate anyone one. It's just part of the story.

My opinion on sexism in the media is never in any single work, not what any of them include, but what as a whole they lack.

It isn't a problem that any single game doesn't have a female protagonist, but when the top 20 action video games of 2011 all have male protagonist then it becomes a problem. But no single game is responsible, you can't say you MUST have a female lead.

And I can see why developer shy away from having female leads in games as every time they do people like Ms Sarkeesian exploiting that to start a disingenuous moral crusade.

It's easier to just not have women in video games or have a woman in an extremely limited role than have to deal with such inconsistent logic. She holds up Chell of Portal 2 as an example of a good female protagonist... when she is a complete non-character, she never speaks nor does anything to judge her by, she is dressed in gender neutral prisoner overalls. She is a classic Valve empty-vessel protagonist. That seem to be how you avid such hollow "critique".

 

[rbstewart7263]

Sideshow if I were to describe to you the amount of videos of her work added to the videos disecting her arguements like laser well..... New china buffet just wouldnt be an apt comparion!lmao

You know I think I could get used to inserting bad jokes into otherwise serious discussions its quite fun.lol

 

[Kahunaburger]

She holds up Chell of Portal 2 as an example of a good female protagonist... when she is a complete non-character, she never speaks nor does anything to judge her by, she is dressed in gender neutral prisoner overalls. She is a classic Valve empty-vessel protagonist.

Yeah, and Valve ciphers are good protagonists. There's no particular reason they're only allowed to be men.

added to the videos disecting her arguements like laser

Honestly, I haven't seen this done once. I don't know if we're ready to start talking about plurals, here. It's not like counter-arguments can't be made, it's that for some reason all the counter-arguments you see people making are completely incoherent.

 

[Treblaine]

She endorses segregation and apartheid as a solution to sexual assault rather than simply enforcing legal laws and basic societal ethics of opposing disturbing interaction.

Please don't appropriate language invoking civil rights when discussing why you think women in Japan shouldn't get the option of a non-groping subway car. (Unless you think separate restrooms/locker rooms are segregation and/or apartheid.)

Every car should be the "non-groping" car, everywhere under the law of the land should be the "non-groping area". Segregation is a terrible solution to this issue and there is no other word for it other than segregation. This is needless segregation as if men can't be trusted to stand next to women without sexually assaulting them then the problem needs to be solved with these dysfunctional men, not women put in their special carriage.

Yes, separate changing rooms are a form of segregation, there is no other word for it, for regardless of how anyone acts people are not going to be comfortable getting undressed in front of the opposite gender. It's a matter of practicality.

Unisex toilets are increasingly common because there is no actual open undressing, just go into a private cubicle when nature calls. I'm sure everyone is aware of how it is not enforced, it is pure convention, a woman can use a men's toilet if the women's are unavailable and vice versa.

 

[Kahunaburger]

It's a matter of practicality.

And there's your answer re: why this is practiced.

And once again, please don't appropriate terms invoking civil rights like "segregation" over something as innocuous as safe-space subway cars. It doesn't really matter what your personal opinion is over the term's accuracy, it's still appropriation.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

That's almost the sad thing though. It's not done as an agenda it's just done without thinking about it. Because that's what female characters are there for to be kidnapped or to look pretty. I was playing Tiberium Twilight last night with my mate and we were in hysterics that the game kills your wife in the very first mission and expects you to care about a bad actress who you have only known for five seconds of the game. (Not to mention the fact the game just presumes your are a straight guy.) It's these silly tropes that Sarkeesian is talking about. She is trying to improve writing in games. How is that a bad thing?

Chell is a good female character because she is presented as a normal person. Not a pole with two watermelons on that poses for the guys every chance she gets. Yeah she's a bit of a non character but at least she isn't just there for eye candy she actually comes across as 'just a woman'.

 

[Treblaine]

She endorses segregation and apartheid as a solution to sexual assault rather than simply enforcing legal laws and basic societal ethics of opposing disturbing interaction.

That one I missed. Got a link?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbihPTgAql4

It's in the last quarter of the video.

Frankly if groping is a problem on trains then you take the gropers off the trains. Not all the men, I think most likely it is a minority of men who assault many different women and are not stopped by society and authority.

Enforce a Samaratin law, making it illegal to see a sexual crime and not report it. And this applies to both men and women witnesses who are all surely witnesses and don't (to an adequate extent) intervene to stop this. I'm not saying be a vigilante, I'm saying to call out the pervert and call for the authorities.

Making women feel they need a women's only carriage is an awful solution.

And I don't see how in the hell Bayonetta encourages, condones or fails to condemn sexual assault. It is Evil Knievel like leap in logic.

 

[Denamic]

How is that a bad thing?

Because she does it in the wrong way.
She often uses very shallow and faulty logic, sometimes even finding/making up issues where there are none.
A good example would be in the case of Zia, where Sarkeesian says she's only referred to as 'the female' and that she's only there to be a lady in distress. Never mind that she has a name where the 'the Kid', the protagonist, doesn't even get one. Further, she was never in distress, like the Kid thought. She had wandered off on her own to find out the truth.
She is right in many cases, that's true, but the way she paints even positive female characters as sexist can't and shouldn't be glossed over.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

How is that a bad thing?

Because she does it in the wrong way.
She often uses very shallow and faulty logic, sometimes even finding/making up issues where there are none.
A good example would be in the case of Zia, where Sarkeesian says she's only referred to as 'the female' and that she's only there to be a lady in distress. Never mind that she has a name where the 'the Kid', the protagonist, doesn't even get one. Further, she was never in distress, like the Kid thought. She had wandered off on her own to find out the truth.
She is right in many cases, that's true, but the way she paints even positive female characters as sexist can't and shouldn't be glossed over.

I don't always agree with Sarkeesian but I think what she is doing is something that needs to be done.

I think we all recognise there is a problem and while we can't expect someone to get it 100% right we should at least show support for someone who is trying to change things for the better. If anything with the funding she has gotten she can at least do thorough research and perhaps interview some devs

As for the train thing I agree with her there. The problem with groping is of epidemic proportions and as a woman I would rather been in a relatively safer environment than just trust that these twisted guys are going to behave themselves.

 

[Pinkamena]

Here's my response to the person who made this game:
You are a terrible person, go fornicate with a cactus.