Almost sounds like a coopted statement based on Stalin's "The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of a million, a statistic." line. Makes sense though, and it's not like anyone is going to spend time trying to make 10 million sundaes.
Force Unleashed 2 Is Too Much
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
It made sense in Shadow of the Colossus. In some games, like Force Unleashed, it was just "HOLY SH*T!" for holy sh*t's sake. That gets old fast, and it robs actually powerful moments of their appeal. I thought it was a pretty simple concept.Bobic said:
You misunderstood me.A1 said:
Yes, I know anime is very broad, I watch a lot of it myself. But anime series tend to fall prey to this, particularly "run on series", or series that are "stretched" past their original script (e.g.: Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Dragonball, to a lesser extent, and despite remaining quite good, Rurouni Kenshi...etc). Anime already tends to start off on more loose interpretations of reality, and "run-on"/"never ending" series inevitably fall prey to power scaling... And an anime that started a "a bit over the top" quickly degenerates into "ridiculous super powers world-ending abominations".
Naruto is a good example. The ninjas in Naruto start out as your typical pop culture ninja: super fast, very strong, and with quite a few "tricks" up their sleeve. You had one of two "titans", but that was it.
...Halfway through the series we're dealing with monsters that can plough through an entire city in a hit, summon sand tsunamis and assorted monsters the size of mountains, to say nothing of Itachi and the Akatsuki freaks...
Dragonball is another text book example. You start with "bordering on super human" fighters, who are considered the very elite. Songoku is some sort of super human being for his capacities, and all the other "very strong" opponents he finds tend to be conquerors or leaders of armies of some kind. And these are the very, absolute, elite best. Mostly they can punch people through a wall or two, and a leap a few duzen extra feet in the air. At one point, Goku is considered some kind of absurdly rare "chosen one" for his capacity to shoot a basic fire ball (the Kamehameha).
Things quickly spin out of control after the Piccollo saga, and by the middle of DragonBall Z we're reached a ridiculous level of fighting where artists just decided "fuck it" and fights are essentially invisible, and everyone that can't fire a fireball without thinking is some kind of retarded failure.
By the depressingly bad ending of DragonBall GT, anyone that can't destroy an entire planet with a punch on a bad day is not even worth mentioning as anything other than comic relief.
It's the whole reason I've taken to watching animes that come with a predetermined beginning, middle and end. First, because the story is far more "focused", with basically no fillers, and second because there's a lower chance of running into absurd power scaling.
That said, you mixed up the "realistic" part. Things don't have to be realistic, they have to be coherent. Lightsabers aren't "realistic", but they make sense in the universe. Being able to pull down a Star Destroyer, which, by the way, is roughly a mile long by roughly 0.6 miles wide star ship that carries around an army, with pin point precision without even moving is not.
The problem isn't being realistic or not, it's when the world defines it's own realism, then fucks it right up in favour of giving everyone super powers.
Let me break this to you, from one one former fan to another: George Lucas is a hack.A1 said:
Yes, I said that. George Lucas by himself is a clueless fucking hack. He has some good ideas, but he hasn't the slightest idea what to do with them. His original 3 movies become the gold they did because he was constantly riddled by technical limitations and a team that constantly criticized his insanity. These people kept him in check. These people went away after the first 3 movies, and were substituted by brown nosing fucks who were afraid to tell Georgy "...Yeah, this is a bad idea". On top of that, the original Star Wars were such a colossal hit that George became the prodigal "golden boy" of movie making. Nobody dared criticize him, and he somehow got the idea that he owed it all to himself... And that he could write... And didn't really need anyone else...
To top it all off, Georgy went from "underdog" to "monopoly guy". He went from being the guy with ideas nobody gave a chance to, to one of the big boys that could do anything he wanted, no matter how stupid... He developed a taste for money, and lost his interest in artistic integrity and the like...
The result is what you see today: A creatively bankrupt franchise milking old whore.
To me, Star Wars is Episodes IV, V and VI. With maybe some room for Kyle Katarn and the Jedi Knight series, and the first KOTOR. Everything else I've personally relayed to the garbage bin of "half baked fanfic author masturbation".
True, but there's a difference between very slow creatures that you'd have to spend your time on working to get tot he one weakpoint that can take out the monster. The beasts he spoke of are fast. And really, c'mon, the beast that Starkiller had to face was four times larger than a Rancor! And put one extra umph to the Rancor's size and it's approximately the size of the Colossus's. So, really....Bobic said:
So too much is too much. If you can destroy a Star Destroyer with the force alone, then there's something wrong with this picture. Never overpower the individual that's suppose to be your uber power. And yes, I know, time's changed, which means "NOW" if Starkiller is that strong and actually a part of the series, then Skywalker will eventually be ten times as powerful. Think about that...
Presumably because that gentleman had an obedience problem. An unstoppable army is only a good thing to keep around if you can control it.Caliostro said:
That's a solid point. I'm all for awesomeness in video games, but if you want your "awesome" scenes to be memorable, it has to be something visceral, something that gets in your head in some way, like it could almost be you doing those things. The Indiana Jones analogy illustrated it perfectly.
It seems to me like the higher-ups at in the games industry have been acting like a bunch of dimbulbs over the past years. Sure, movies have always had a problem with over-sequelization, but it was never so bad as what's been happening to video games. And in the early days of the medium, "indie" movie developers were required to push the envelope of what could be achieved artistically, but eventually - eventually the industry finally grew up and moved on.
Ditto for horrible storytelling. Ditto for over-the-top, unappealing, "oh come on" action scenes. When are these guys going to smarten up and start and spending their hundreds of millions on developing games that are actually enjoyable?
It seems to me like the higher-ups at in the games industry have been acting like a bunch of dimbulbs over the past years. Sure, movies have always had a problem with over-sequelization, but it was never so bad as what's been happening to video games. And in the early days of the medium, "indie" movie developers were required to push the envelope of what could be achieved artistically, but eventually - eventually the industry finally grew up and moved on.
Ditto for horrible storytelling. Ditto for over-the-top, unappealing, "oh come on" action scenes. When are these guys going to smarten up and start and spending their hundreds of millions on developing games that are actually enjoyable?
Yahtzee, I'm sure you're going to be annoyed with me for doing this, but you summed up one of my major disappoints in the prequel Star Wars movies. Return of the Jedi had an awesome space battle in it, along with a great ground battle (I like Ewoks, sorry). So, with technology the way it is now, I was gitty with joy when the prequels were released. I spent many a day wondering how they would make space and ground battles look now.
Instead, like you said, there was too much. Too much debris, too many flashes, too many explosions. I couldn't follow any of it. And, as you also pointed out, because the technology was so costly, the scenes themselves were only two or three seconds or a blinding explosion. Such a let down. So yeah, this even applies to Star Wars, although it's not the only problem with it.
Instead, like you said, there was too much. Too much debris, too many flashes, too many explosions. I couldn't follow any of it. And, as you also pointed out, because the technology was so costly, the scenes themselves were only two or three seconds or a blinding explosion. Such a let down. So yeah, this even applies to Star Wars, although it's not the only problem with it.
Really in the sense of it all, I do agree with Yahtzee that they're trying a weeeee bit too hard to make it 'too awesome'. Kill a Star Destroyer with the will of the force alone? Desintigrating bodies with just the power of the force? Facing a beast that can eat a Rancor because it's ten times bigger than 'em? Really, too much, too much. I ended up looking over all of these, and just kinda got annoyed by it all. Besides, the cloning doesn't make a lick of sense because all the clones....
Kratos on one end, was a God once when he fought with them, became a God after his defeat and gained power through the titans, and gained it again through the use of killing the Gods the next time over. And he had the personality of Marbels. Does that make you hate him? Nooo.he was already like that from the get go, so he's uber awesome.
And reading another post. Yes, i agree, Star Wars is IV, V, VI without shame, and I'll only add like..one small series to it, addition of Mara Jade because despite anything, I like the fact that Luke is a uber power, and gets a redhead...yeah.redhead.
And I like the KOTOR series, though never got the time to play it...boo-hoo-hoo ;.;
EDIT] Oh wow, my first post actually went through. Sorry!
Go Crazy o.o
Kratos on one end, was a God once when he fought with them, became a God after his defeat and gained power through the titans, and gained it again through the use of killing the Gods the next time over. And he had the personality of Marbels. Does that make you hate him? Nooo.he was already like that from the get go, so he's uber awesome.
And reading another post. Yes, i agree, Star Wars is IV, V, VI without shame, and I'll only add like..one small series to it, addition of Mara Jade because despite anything, I like the fact that Luke is a uber power, and gets a redhead...yeah.redhead.
And I like the KOTOR series, though never got the time to play it...boo-hoo-hoo ;.;
EDIT] Oh wow, my first post actually went through. Sorry!
Does this theory work for games based in the future? Look at Mass Effect and its massive Sovereign. Sovereign is a massive alien spaceship/alien himself. How can something like that be based in reality? Or even the citadel, that was a massive and ancient space station that a long, long extinct people built that hasn't been completely destroyed by some cosmic force over the insanely long time it has been around?
Or is it just the fact that people don't know what to expect from the future, so therefore they can accept it because they just don't know that something like this could be built sometime in the future?
Or is it just the fact that people don't know what to expect from the future, so therefore they can accept it because they just don't know that something like this could be built sometime in the future?
Actually, I kind of dread that day because he's still an amateur at game criticism. Almost all of his works are filled with fallacies, even now.Jiveturkey124 said:
The problem with both of these cases is that they don't want to put fear, they want to empower. You're not supposed to be afraid with Kratos because he's a god killer with amazing strength. Plus, he's comparing this to Condemned, which is a Horror game. No duh you're more likely to be afraid. He misses the point of these games. I want to know what gave him the idea that a game where you beat up monsters, gods and titans wanted to instill fear?
So, re-write that part of the genetic code. They did it with Jango Fett... Supposedly several duzen years before that...Eclectic Dreck said:
Also, why not just clone your strongest loyal servant? Like Vader. Vader is extremely loyal to Palpatine. An army of Vaders would rape.
i.e.: "Cloning" became the Deus Ex Machina of Star Wars emergency plots.
Yahtzee makes a solid point once again. It instantly brought the Darth Maul/Obi-Wan/Qui-Gon fight to my mind. I remember thinking how stupid it was for its absurdly over choreographed nature. They looked like they were dancing, not fighting. Luke vs Vader from the original trilogy had so much more emotion and realism behind it and it was all the more interesting for it.
I feel the same way about some game guns.
I'm sorry, your testicle powered thirty barreled lightning shooting shotgun bazooka artillery cannon... thing is cool and all, but I prefer my assault rifle with a scope.
I'm sorry, your testicle powered thirty barreled lightning shooting shotgun bazooka artillery cannon... thing is cool and all, but I prefer my assault rifle with a scope.
if you watched his review of Just Cause 2 and read the Dead Rising 2 extra punctuation you'll see that he REALLY enjoyed just cause 2, so obviously it wasn't too muchMr Companion said:
Just Cause 2 provides a level of spectacle that i find very awesome.
Alright Yahtzee, I hope you realize that I'll be bringing this article up the next time you complain about a game being too realistic.
I also now know that you like Escape from Butcher Bay.
I also now know that you like Escape from Butcher Bay.
I had to look this one up to make sure...
"Gun barrels can only burst by having some obstruction in the barrel or by overloading with powder. Any gun barrel can be burst by misuse or by carelessly loading smokeless powder, but no barrel will burst by using factory loaded ammunition, provided there is no obstruction or foreign substance inside the barrel. When a gun barrel bursts at the breech or chamber, it is caused by an overloaded shell, and when it bursts in the center or near the muzzle, it is caused by some obstruction, such as a dent, snow, water, etc."
"Gun barrels can only burst by having some obstruction in the barrel or by overloading with powder. Any gun barrel can be burst by misuse or by carelessly loading smokeless powder, but no barrel will burst by using factory loaded ammunition, provided there is no obstruction or foreign substance inside the barrel. When a gun barrel bursts at the breech or chamber, it is caused by an overloaded shell, and when it bursts in the center or near the muzzle, it is caused by some obstruction, such as a dent, snow, water, etc."