Forget the Friend Zone, it's OK to be attracted to a friend

[axlryder]

The whole "friend zone" idea implies a fundamentally narcissistic and solipsistic way of looking at human interaction. In this framework, women are not autonomous individuals with their own preferences and desires. Any woman will be attracted to you as long as you do X and avoid Y: if she isn't interested in you, it's not that you aren't attractive to her, it's that she unfairly wrote you off because you were too "kind" or "caring" or whatever.

The whole thing has a gross belief underlying it that you are entitled to any woman you want and that you can be with any woman you want as long as you manipulate her properly. The view holds that dating and sex are purely transactional, that male-female friendship is inherently worthless, that any woman can be bedded by your being an aggressive douchebag, and the whole thing just reeks of misogyny, entitlement, and false victimhood. Very common among Nice Guys? who *~*~don't understand*~*~ why women are all such stupid bitches who only date assholes and friendzone every Nice Guy? who'd treat them right.

Fuck outta here wit that buuuullshit.

Hey, take care to specify that woman can be in the "friendzone" just as men can be the ones who are accused of "putting" someone in it. I realize you're having a lot of fun riding on the jaded generalizations wagon, but at least try to be a little more inclusive in your rants.

 

[Innegativeion]

blow it out of proportions.

Yeah, blowing things out of proportion. How ridiculous. Who would ever do something like that. *rolls eyes*

Obviously having a word for something that has always existed, and will always exist, means our society is being overrun with "overly sensitive sulking jerks". Clearly the use of this word must be banned, and then all overly sulking jerks will magically disappear.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

To be honest, if you have enough female friends, chances are you will be attracted to at least one of them, and chances are, they won?t be attracted to you. I?m pretty much on the road to accepting that, and I?m just saying to myself, ?I have bigger priorities right now than getting a girlfriend, and even that can wait until uni?.

Although, frankly, I never even know about the ?Friend Zone? until I watched Friends.

 

[Darken12]

it doesnt strike me as alfa male so much as some pathetic neckbeards revenge fantasy..I mean it is a rage comic

Yes, but the message at the end reminds me a lot of the "stop being a beta" thing the PUA community does a lot. Though maybe you're right and I'm way off base.

and yet you are using it to villianize men. You have an extremely warped view of friendzoning. It is nothing more than someone being shot down after putting oneself on the line but the other member just wants to be friends. There is no victim because there is no crime.

That is not how the word is used. It is very often (almost always) used as a way for the rejected party to feel sorry for themselves, blame the person who rejected them, and then try to find ways to "get out" of it or avoid it happening in the future, as if friendship with someone you're attracted to is the social equivalent of the bubonic plague.

If say a woman finally mustered the courage to ask a guy out whom she had a secret crush on and was rejected, is she a victim? No. You would feel bad for her, sure, because having your heart broken can be soul crushing. The only thing she is a "victim" of is bad luck. Same thing with friendzoning. Not to mention, the term friendzone is often used by OTHERS to describe what happened to a rejected person. If friendzoning was only used by the individual in question as a way to cope with rejection in an unhealthy manner, others would not readily use it to describe what happens.

Yes, they would, because, if it happened to them, that would allow them the same "get out of responsibility" card that the rejected person is getting.

It is nothing more than feeling pity for someone who was rejected and is now just friends, not some sort of insidious plot. Honestly, your idea of friendzoning sounds as batty as conspiracy theorists. At worst, if a person self describes her/his situation as being friendzoned s/he might be looking for pity, but thats about it.

and before you ask, no i have not been friendzoned. If anything I would be the friendzoner as I dont believe that turning a long standing friendship into something more serious is a good idea.

Don't take my word for it. Google "get out of the friendzone" and read the disgusting "advice" given to people. The best way to disprove something you think is ludicrous is to go out and see for yourself.

The friendzone is always portrayed as a bad thing, that's why the word was invented, as a way to name a specific thing that was being perceived as a problem. Being friends with someone you're attracted to is considered a problem to avoid or get out of. This is an extremely unhealthy attitude that stems from extremely immature people and perpetuated by people who need to grow up.

Also, what the fuck is the problem with being friends with someone you're attracted to? Why is the friendship with a woman so worthless? Why is it only important that she fuck you or date you? Why can't it possibly be okay to be friends with her? Why is it treated as a failure when a woman thinks you'd make a good friend? Because you want more than that? Do you throw a tantrum every time you don't get what you want?

Honestly, I'm sick of this being said.

Not that I don't see people saying "She's so evil, friendzoning me, it couldn't possibly be something wrong with me!", but this view seems to act like nobody who ever wanted something more, but ended up being friends, knows that they fucked something up.

See, I know I'm ugly, socially moronic, lacking any kind of charm, relatively poor, sexually inexperienced, and downright retarded. I know it is my fault, I'm the piece of shit here, not her, and I'm fed up of it being made out like I never admit that.

Then why do you need the word "friendzone" if you admit this is just as normal as any other form of rejection? Is there something special with being rejected and wanting to stay friends as opposed to being rejected and not wanting to see you again?

If you don't blame anybody but yourself for being rejected, you don't need the word friendzone, because she didn't do anything special that merits distinguishing it from other forms of rejection.

 

[Frostbite3789]

Oh, this friend-zone crap needs to stop, people need to learn to accept rejection.

Here's how I evaluate friend-zoning, as this has happened on multiple occasions. You ask a girl out, or show interest in her in any way and her reasoning for turning you down is she's "not looking for anything right now."

Then two weeks later is with another guy. Then a month later is bitching to you about that guy. She didn't turn you down because she just isn't looking for something. That was her way of wanting to keep you around as a friend and skirting the truth. If someone isn't attracted to me, that's fine. But be straight with me.

If we're that good of friends, our friendship will endure. Sure it might be difficult for a bit, but give it a week or so. It's not some grievous wound to be told someone isn't attracted to you. It's a slight wound to the pride. It's a much bigger wound to the pride to realize they think you can't handle it.

 

[Frostbite3789]

I'm sick of you guys complaining about this 'friendzone'. If you are not a suitable mate, then go and man up.

I'm also sick of these friendzone threads. There are already many of them on the database of the Escapist. Also, please see my response above.

You...quoted yourself agreeing with yourself. wat?

 

[DugMachine]

I agree. One of my best friends is a female and I think she's one of the most attractive people I know. But I know she's my friend and have no romantic interests in her.

 

[DevilWithaHalo]

1. People need to grow a pair and ask said person of desire out.
2. If he/she says no, then move on, grow up and realise that not all people want to shag you.

The adorable kitten has the answer. The 'friend zone' is something people make the choice to be in. Don't be friends with someone who is fully aware that you want more but wants to keep you on the sidelines.

 

[Yopaz]

It's been so long since we've had a friend-zone thread here I was hoping that fad has passed just to be briefly mention in other threads. I was wrong. I hate being wrong sometimes...

Sorry. I'd intended to use the matter more as a point of departure than go stomping over old ground, but clearly people still feel strongly about this so perhaps there's more to be learned and understood from further discussion.

I honestly wasn't sure if anyone else thought the way I did; whether anyone else had a little lay-by in their head in which to park feeling of attraction towards people who are valued as friends. All of a sudden it came to me that maybe that's a healthy thing after all and perhaps it might avoid getting lost in the messy and confusing back-roads of supposed friend-zoning.

Having been there myself, I'd say I personally find much merit in Darken12's analysis. Retrospectively analysing one's motives is a tricky task but I do recall sulky victimhood being present although in this case there was (and, happily, continues to be) a strand pf genuine friendship woven through it all.

At the same time, I do think that, at the time of life I assume most people here are at, interactions with the opposite sex can be confusing, uncertain and challenging. Such is the means by which we learn and become -hopefully- more socially aware people. But it can produce nebulous zones where locating exactly where you stand vis-a-vis your emotional relations with someone else. The frienzone might not possess objective validity as a genuine social phenomenon, but the fact that it has been thought of and perceived by some to be legitimate could be seen as illuminating in terms of how people deal with what can be a difficult life experience

As for your thoughts and ideas I actually agree with what you're saying. I feel the same way, I have a lot of female friends, but I have never really thought of them in a sexual way.

Your thoughts are good enough, but this subject brings out the worst on this forum. Accusations about how I am in the friend zone simply because I'm ugly, or that I am fooling myself, that the friend zone is a static thing that can't ever change. It also used to bring out the misogynists we've got.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

Most grievances that my flesh & blood friends have ever had about their platonic friendships with women revolve around women making the classic mistake of trying to develop a feminine friendship with a man. That rarely ends well and apart from the hardcore creepers out there, probably accounts for a majority of the talk of friend-zoning on the internet. If women want to be strictly friends with a man then should initially treat a male friend as male friends treat each other, although as a member of the gender and sexual orientation they're attracted to I would stay away from belittling their sex lives. If I show up at a person's house and announce that we're going to play a game and begin playing the game with them without first laying down the ground rules to a game they've never played before, then mistakes are inevitable and the game is going to turn out to be an epic cluster-fuck.

 

[axlryder]

I keep saying this, but I'll say it again.

The friend zone should be referred to only when some form sexual/relational interest was once expressed by one party, but eventually that party's interest dissipates(usually right around the time the other party becomes an active pursuant).

I'm pretty sure this is what the term originally referred to, but then it evolved into its current form. Unfortunately, its current form is stupid (imo).

For instance, there was once a girl who was interested in me back in highschool. All my friends and her friends were like "dude, you better ask her out, she really likes you". Sadly, I wanted to take things slowly, so I ended up waiting like a month and then decided asking her out was something I wanted to do. Lo and behold, she was no longer interested. THAT is what I would call getting friend zoned. It's when you go from "potential relationship partner" to "friend" in someone's mind.

I still don't agree. The way you describe it makes the girl whose attraction to you changed responsible for her change in feelings. And people can't control that. You're trying to shift agency to her, away from yourself.

I see where you're coming from, but the potential connotations that could be derived from the statement don't negate the reality that an actual shift occurred within her brain (thus some kind of event occurred). The "friend-zoning" in question is just a name for that shift in her feelings. It's like "falling out of love". It's not designed to lay blame or attribute responsibility, just describe a specific yet somewhat common emotional phenomenon of "liking" then "no longer liking" (at least based on the usage I've seen).

 

[Vegosiux]

Here's how I evaluate friend-zoning, as this has happened on multiple occasions. You ask a girl out, or show interest in her in any way and her reasoning for turning you down is she's "not looking for anything right now."

Then two weeks later is with another guy. Then a month later is bitching to you about that guy. She didn't turn you down because she just isn't looking for something. That was her way of wanting to keep you around as a friend and skirting the truth. If someone isn't attracted to me, that's fine. But be straight with me.

If we're that good of friends, our friendship will endure. Sure it might be difficult for a bit, but give it a week or so. It's not some grievous wound to be told someone isn't attracted to you. It's a slight wound to the pride. It's a much bigger wound to the pride to realize they think you can't handle it.

Pretty much this, indeed. Be straight or don't expect any friendship from me, because if I know you're not being straight, I will not trust you, and if I do not trust you, the grounds for any kind of friendship is kind of shaky, no?

But don't think you can get "acquaintance" and "friend" mixed up and get away with it on my watch *grin*

 

[Duskwaith]

And what's the problem with the word "friends", then? Why do we need to specify that you've put your friends in the friend zone? Do we put our acquaintances in the acquaintance zone? Our spouses in the spouse zone? Our family in the family zone? Our coworkers in the coworker zone? Our classmates in the classmate zone?

Reminded me of this

I fancy one of my friends as an attractive,female. Shes hot but im her friend. The friend zone is used more as an excuse for why you aren't tapping that as opposed to being an actual thing with say a friend your not attracted to i.e just a friend. Its pretty much a double negative

 

[Overusedname]

I recently got hit on by two friends this month, one I didn't even realize was doing it.

I don't THINK things are awkward between us. I hope. Desperately.

I've posted long-form thoughts on this topic before, but at this point I'm beginning to understand that...I've only felt 'friendzoned' once. And I've been dumped by a girlfriend once. And that's my whooole experience with rejection. I seem to cause 'friendzone' a lot. So maybe I don't have the best perspective.

This whole thing confuses me, not gonna lie. A lot of people do very clearly blame the person for rejecting them and label them as a terrible person. And I've felt very awkward around some female (and gay) friends who have openly flirted with me. I don't know what to make of it.

Isn't that a given? I'll be the first to admit some of my female friends are hot as hell. Is it actually considered a negative/taboo in some places to be attracted to friends of the opposite sex? (Or the same, if you're gay).

Also this. Yeah, some of my best friends are notably cuter than the others, but contrary to what certain people claim, not every man is a sentient erection seeking constant fulfillment.

 

[Monster_user]

I don't see it as a bad thing, or negative in anyway. If a person doesn't want to be more than friends with another, then more power to them.

Friends are better than girlfriends. Girlfriends expect gifts, attention, intimacy, and then turn around a tear your heart out of your chest. Far too much trouble. Stay a virgin, stay friends, live a long happy life.

Logically speaking, allowing that feeling to exist is hazardous to my wellbeing.

let's just say for a moment that I'm not completely retarded and socially bankrupt, and I hit on a girl at a club. It fails, as usual, as always, but if nobody who would mock me witnesses it, there is no ongoing effect if I do not let there be one.

If I become friends with a girl and become attracted to her, it's socially unnacceptable to pretend we never met if I asked her out and failed. It's simply not done, for partially good reason, from her point of view, that's just crappy manners.

But if I stick around, I have to endure it. I have to remind myself why it's hopeless to try. I have to remind myself that I'm a piece of shit who nobody would ever be attracted to in order for things to not fall apart.

Every. Single. Time. we meet.

Thus the only logical option is to completely destroy said feelings. Not allow them to develop. That is far easier than controlling them. Allowing them to develop has no likely positive outcomes, only negative ones.

Ever considered that it's your self-loathing that makes you unattractive to women? There's no social grace required when you say "Would you like to go out to dinner with me?" to a friend. If she says no, you can say "I was being friendly". If she says yes, then you already know how to interact with her at the restaurant, it's a lot easier to end up dating her.

OT: Two of my good friends were "just friends" for years, and now they're engaged. I don't know how anyone would think that friends are off-limits, when they actually allow feelings to grow between two people naturally.

This is not always the case. People are different, some allow feelings to grow, and others don't.

 

[Reeve]

"Your blood-drool attracts the flies"

In this case: The the blood-drool being threads on gender/sex/relationship issues. And the flies being the regular posters that love to post in these types of threads.

 

[Vault101]

Friends are better than girlfriends. Girlfriends expect gifts, attention, intimacy, and then turn around a tear your heart out of your chest. Far too much trouble. Stay a virgin, stay friends, live a long happy life.

thats a little unfair...not everyone expects gifts, intamcy....well thats part of whatbeing girlfrend/boyfreind is...attention some people should know that others need space the last part....oh come on now

 

[axlryder]

I still don't agree. The way you describe it makes the girl whose attraction to you changed responsible for her change in feelings. And people can't control that. You're trying to shift agency to her, away from yourself.

I see where you're coming from, but the potential connotations that could be derived from the statement don't negate the reality that an actual shift occurred within her brain (thus some kind of event occurred). The "friend-zoning" in question is just a name for that shift in her feelings. It's like "falling out of love". It's not designed to lay blame or attribute responsibility, just describe a specific yet somewhat common emotional phenomenon of "liking" then "no longer liking" (at least based on the usage I've seen).

Funnily enough I'm against the term "fall in love" for the opposite reason. I believe love (not attraction) is a choice, because love is not a feeling, it's a decision to put someone else's happiness ahead of our own. So when I hear "fall in love" I imagine people waiting for a magic bolt from the blue to make them feel that commitment, when in fact they have agency in how they approach other people's needs.

I think the best way to put it is just, "not attracted". "She's not attracted to me any more," is perfectly clear, says exactly what needs to be said, and most importantly says it without passing judgment or blame or agency. She just stopped feeling something. It doesn't matter why.

Well, not being attracted to someone anymore is a broader statement and doesn't necessarily convey what "friend-zoning" would denote in that context. Friend-zoning generally refers to an "expiration of a dating window" so to speak. They spent too long as friends after they met without romantic interaction and that resulted in that window being shut. It's a very specific thing that seems to happen to people (likely due to those feelings of infatuation wearing off and getting to see the persons flaws better as the friendship goes on). However, (in fact, more importantly and a point I failed to mention in my previous comment due to having had to write it hastily) is that you can still be "attracted" to someone on a physical or emotional level and friend-zone them (a decision typically born out of volition).

I've done that a couple of times to girls. I found them attractive, but then after getting to know them determined they were no longer prospective romantic partners due to various reasons and felt less infatuated with them. I've known girls to do the same thing. We've all called it "friend-zoning" and certainly don't feel like it's something bad. If anything, I'd say that's the most appropriate and best usage of the term. Thinking on what you said before, referring friend-zoning without observable intent doesn't quite sit right. I still think it's a more valid a use of the term than what the "friend-zone" is more colloquially seen as, but it comes down to "if the brain is unconsciously taking the action should you really use a term that seems to denote more initiative"?

In the end, it feels best to refer to it when someone actually makes a conscious decision to no longer want to date a person and only interact with them as friends. That said, I think the phenomenon the term describes (at least among my group of friends) is too common and specific to just switch it out with a generic descriptor of events. It's literally summed up whole conversations for us.

Anyway, good observations.

Also, I agree that falling in love is a stupid term. It was really just an example though. Besides, the word love has such a long and convoluted history and so many different potential meanings that it's definitely not something I'd want to dive in to.

 

[axlryder]

Then you weren't attracted to them any more. You thought they were pretty, but their appearance wasn't enough to make you maintain attraction in the face of other factors you didn't like.

That's still a change in attraction. You didn't choose to stop being attracted to them. It just happened when you got to know them better. And it would have happened regardless of if you found out through dating or through being their friend. So to call it friend-zoning is just pointlessly confusing the issue.

Actually, I chose to stop wanting to DATE them or pursue a romantic relationship. I already explained this. I was still very attracted to some of these girls on some level, be it physical or emotional or both. However, I decided that they weren't DATING material. I DECIDED. I weighed the factors and came to a conclusion. It was an action taken of my own volition. I consciously put them in the "just friends" category. I've known others to do the same thing. It's not pointlessly confusing the issue, because it often happens prior to a relationship forming (usually about a month or two prior). That's why I said I think it's unnecessary to use the term to refer to two people post-relationship. That would just be redundant.

You're welcome to use whatever terms you like- attempts to artificially control language rarely work. But you'll have to face the consequence that by using the term, you're going to be judged by others as resembling the other group that uses it.

I couldn't care less. It doesn't mean I can't still use it however I want and explain to others what I mean. If they still choose to judge me for using a term in a way that makes sense then they can feel free to do so. I wouldn't want to associate with them anyway. Also, "artifically" controlling language? Words take on new meanings all the time. They mean different things in different places. I'm merely choosing to use the term in the way I've seen it used and am choosing to try and proliferate that usage. If it catches on then good. If it doesn't, then at least it's a term my friends and I can use effectively.

 

[axlryder]

However, I decided that they weren't DATING material.

Why would you choose not to date someone you were attracted to?

Also, "artifically" controlling language?

Yes, meaning it would be pointless for me to try and force you to stop using terms you like using.

It does seem that you're struggling against the tide with that usage though, at least outside of your select social group.

Ah, I'm very sorry, I misinterpreted your meaning there.

Also, they might not have enough direction in their lives, they might party a bit too much, they might have some irreconcilable philosophical views, they might not be very honest or have some other deal-breaker trait, I might think we're just a bad match, etc.