"Now I can't speak for GameStop, but I know what I would do. Next time you buy something from GameStop for your Xbox 360, I'd give you some token you could use on Impulse toward a deal or sale on some other title. Pretty soon everything on Impulse is cheaper."
You mean like the thing Gamestop already does, but the points are worth so little that you would have to trade in like 20 games to be able to get anything...
I'm not saying Steam is bad. I'm a huge advocate of Steam. I have well over two hundred Steam games and I love the sales. Impulse was/is incredibly glitchy and it was one of the problems with it. I would be pretty surprised if Impulse could ever be a threat to Steam.
Steam is easier and cheaper, and with GameStop's pricing history I see absolutely no way they could beat Steam. GameStop price gouges everything in their stores, while Steam underprices everything. I just can't see GameStop being willing to drop prices enough to even compete with Steam, much less overtake them.
That's region Dependant, where I'm from both are absurdly expensive (presumably due to the publishers, as valve developed games are priced the same as they are overseas). Small retailers (admittedly not gamestop) import their own stock and charge rrp for PC games ($50us~$49au), where steam typically charges $80-$90 for a digital copy of the same game (and for the extra charge you get slapped with the extra layer of DRM).
Gonna have to call bullshit on you on that. Steams average price is not 80-90 dollars. Ive browsed for hours their catalogue. While it does not come down as OVERLY cheaper than other places, it DEFINITLY does not come over as overly pricier. The average price for their games is 50 dollars, wich is the average price for games that come out anywhere. And im speaking WITHOUT counting the unsurmountable number of sales, wich you will NEVER see in any store out here, except maybe D2D, but D2D just says FUCK YOU to anyone who is non american. i hate them for their poor deliverance of international service.
Apparently I was inescapably clear enough before, the prices change depending on your region. I am, right now, looking at an advertisement[footnote]Despite them bothering to change the prices for region, they don't estimate the currency conversion. All prices are in USD[/footnote] for 'homefront' and can confirm they are selling it for $80. Dragon age is $70, shift 2 unleashed is $80, crysis 2 is $70, total war shogun is $90 as is call of duty black ops. An 'expensive' retail store in Melbourne (such as JB hifi) will sell the boxed versions of the games for about the same price, a specialty/independent store will usually sell them for between $50 and $60au (in Australia the chain retail stores like to completely ignore the RRP of the games). I'm yet to see a new, third party (ie not developed by valve) game advertised on steam that I cannot get at least $10 cheaper from a store or online.
Also, what intrusive DRM? :/ Pardon the question, i really have no idea what...intrusive DRM youre talkin about.
Seriously? Try launching a game linked to steamworks without having steam open. Try force a restart of your computer when steam is not runnning, restart without internet and try to launch a game. If the client is unable to verify you have the rights to launch a steamlocked game (despite it being installed on the computer) it will not allow you to launch it. That's exactly what DRM is.
And, unfortunately, steam doesn't store any credentials on the computer. So, just say I log into steam on my desktop, while my laptop is still running, my laptop will get logged out of steam. If I forget to log back in before I go to my friends house (who has no internet) for some gaming, I will not be able to launch any steam game.
Some people like using steam, and it isn't wrong to like its features, but it is most certainly a DRM system and it is far more invasive than the traditional secuROM shit people are always bitching about.
The only thing i have to do is i have to have the platform turned on to play a game. And while a few years ago, it was a HUGE hassle, Steam is fairly smooth and easy now. OH, and i did have games i took from steam that COULD run without it. I popped Dragon Age 2 on the other day, with Steam Uninstalled, and it ran fine. I know its another layer of software between you an your game, but i doubt its the evil people tell it to be. Somethings have to be done in computing to make sure evth is safe.
As far as I'm aware, dragon age isn't locked to the steamworks DRM. It uses the steam platform, but not the DRM. Not all games available on steam require steam to run (and I'm obviously a lot less critical of those that don't require it). You cannot do the same thing with, say, left 4 dead or civilization 5.
The big thing that shits me about steam is not that it's a DRM, it's that it occasionally kicks itself in the teeth and won't work without an INTERNET connection (which I regularly lack-I game on my laptop a lot). I also hate the incremental install patch system, particularly because the "do not update this game" option is periodically reset back to the default false option when the steam client updates.
Look, steam isn't by any stretch the worst system, but impulse just does some basic things better[footnote]It downloads updates incrementally but does not install them until they entire download is complete, it does not need to be running to run a game attached to it, there are no pop up ads when you close games etc.[/footnote]
Ive already addressed the pricing. Youre getting prices higher in Steam, but the smae happens in the other stores. Thats really dependent on your country, but ive checked prices for North America, and Europe, and theyre about the same, MAYBE a LIL more in europe, but unnoticeable. From what i hear, Australia gets fucked by everyone in terms of pricing, not just Steam. :/
Also, you are specifying a very niche event and bug. I have went to places without internet, turned steam in offline mode, and played games. I didnt have to LOG IN before going there, i just went there, turned on my computer, and played in offline mode. Impulse doesnt have to be turned on when you play games there, fine, heres the problem with that. To play a game in steam, you have to be logged in to your account, be it online or offline mode. The fact is, this digital distribution system makes it IMMENSELY easy to just pirate the game. You just download it, and then go to a friends house and download i tthere, and so on and so forth. The fact is, SteamWorks and SteamGuard, while you can go to a friends house and do that, you cant have him running at the same time as yo udo, so it really hinders chances of mass spreaded piracy. I know its a small account, and maybe you dont think its worth the extra software, but that extra software is more than just DRM. i gladly enjoy having steam cloud while i play, im chatting with friends, screening things, checking wich achievements to get, checking if i can invite someone to play. The only option i want now is a Broadcast option, wich i have in xFire, but if steam had it id gladly use it. i really do tire of complaints about DRM, they are just unnecessary, at least in Steams case. i dont really mind having competition, its good, and i hvae bought games in D2D, but to say Steam is the devil when its just offering the best deals for you, is silly. well not for you, you live in a place where every store likes raping prices :/. might i suggest changing countries?
Some people like using steam, and it isn't wrong to like its features, but it is most certainly a DRM system and it is far more invasive than the traditional secuROM shit people are always bitching about.
What kind of counter argument is it that you could just login to impulse on somebody elses computer, download the game and then let them play it....You can do exactly the same thing with steam. Simply tick the 'offline mode' option and never go back to online mode, you don't get locked out if it crashed in offline mode anywhere near as often, and if it's such a rare bug[footnote]It isn't[/footnote] then who the fuck cares? Most impulse games don't let you play online without CD key recognition, and that system still stops people from sharing online games around with their mates.
You both seem to think that because the majority of big chains make a hobby of horribly overcharging Australians that it's somehow acceptable or moral for steam to do the same. It isn't, that's a bullshit argument and I don't accept for a second that either of you actually beleive it. You're just copping out because you like valve games and probably the ingame chat client steam has and steam DRM isn't enough of a deterrent to stop you enjoying it. There's nothing wrong with that. I hate paying $500 a year on car rego, but I love my car and the associated freedoms so it's done without a second thought...Same principle, just because you're willing to give something up doesn't make it fair or reasonable.
Do you honestly think I'd have a list of problems with steam if I didn't use it? I love tf2, I'm a longtime dystopia player and generally believe that the modding community built around half life 2 is the best thing to have ever happened to gaming. But just because I'm a fan of the games and community that valve have developed doesn't make it impossible for me pull my thumb out and realize that the DRM system they implement is horrible. There's no fucking chance you'd put up with steam if it wasn't for the valve games and subtle conditioning to divert your attention from what's bad about it, and valve know it (even if you don't).
Ah then, so the offline mode DOES work? My argument was you assuming that offline didnt work, therefore impairing piracy. But apparently offline mode works, cause thats what you said. And honestly, i doubt its Steams fault for overpricing. Im willing to bet that extra money isnt even going to them. Valve is consumer friendly. then again, i dont live in australia and i never bothered to research into that, so i might be wrong.
If you are offline when it crashes, then yes it will almost always let you log in again offline (sometimes it still clears it's cache, but it's quite rare). If you are online and it crashes, you cannot get back on without an internet connection - I don't see any benefit to this (I assume it's a design flaw, not a design choice) and it's an unnecessary hindrance on the user.
Actually the first games i bought on steam had nothing to do with valve. the first one i got there from valve was left 4 dead. and now i do have a collection of their games, but its like 10% of my library. all others have nothing to do with valve. i dont disagree with you that it is a bit bothersome DRM, i mean, geesh, turning on a program to play games...they must be the Devil for making me do this. but dont assume that its a totalitarian DRM, because SteamWorks wasnt imposed as DRM primarily, but DRM was an added feature of it.
It was primarily a DRM. The sales, community tabs etc all came way, way after. For a very long time steam chat/overlay did not pop up in game (nobody used steam chat for anything back then).
Also, you've kind of ignored all the points I made in my previous points about how valve control how I game before, I made several points about why I chose the totalitarian comparison...it's got every bit as much to do with controlling the user as it does the 'anti-piracy' features.
Oh and, since you love Impulse so much, tell me why they, like D2D, dont give a fuck about international releases. They are an american distributor, and thats it. That alone, warrants Steam as better than them, because Steam gives me EVERYTHING, no matter where i am. and its just not small games, no no, actually, the indie and smaller titles i can get, but more complex or mroe famous games? Tough luck, you should of been born in america. or canada. wich i was, but TOUGH LUCK, YOU SHOULD OF STAYED TO LIVE THERE. :/
Good point. This is because steam is the big dog, developers cannot afford to not use steam, if they do they will lose a huge chunk of their sales. Impulse is typically used by a small number of anti DRM hippys, people who hate steam or people who use it for non game products. My point is, impulse is the small player, so only a few publishers care about it at all, and they see no reason to allow impulse to compete with steam so they use region locked versions of the game. That's why if gamestop force publishers to properly support impulse and don't fuck up the impulse system, it will very quickly become a real alternative to steam. They would be stupid to not continue matching the sales (they don't do them $ for $, but I bought the same THQ pack off of impulse as my mate did off steam and we had 1 different title included, we paid the same). The only thing really holding it back is people already have steam (and a huge number of them are fanboys who refuse to see the flaws of the system).
Oh and its more expensive. Wich is what i think drives you to Impulse...im guessing they dont charge that extra cash in Australia? Wich sounds like a pretty good reason to use Impulse, but dont come saying its better for me on your sole argument that i dont have to run a DRM. Sales? Steam has better. Games? Steam has more available to me. Features? Too many to count while Impulse has....none. and you call it a bad DRM, but its the best DRM ever. instead of just being a hunk of fucking useless added software that does nothing for you but DRM you, it actally has chat, community, acheives, etc etc. So its a multi purpose DRM. Its still evil, but oh well. at least they sugarcoat the evil with chocolate. The subtle things that draw you out of it are not pointless thou. They give me things i like and use and have practical use for it. Its not just evil marketing. Giving me 50 games for 30 bucks isnt pointless catering if you ask me.
Impulse actually aren't consistently cheaper, they tend to be very slightly more expensive, I tend to only use it for sales and specific games I do not want tied to steam. I usually buy boxed copies as they are (considerably) cheaper.
Most of the games are the same on impulse as they are on steam. On the whole steam has more games, but I would expect that to change if gamestop have given any thought to their business model.
As far as features go, yes steam has more...but impulse does not have none. It has one that I feel is very important: It will download a game completely before installing it-no incremental installs means that I can play a game while the update is downloaded for it....brilliant But yes, on the whole steam has much better non-drm features.
On a last note, i do think DRM is pointless a bit, but i think you exagerate Steams evilness over that one little point. If there was a provider that game me this variety, these prices, this community, these prices....well ok, id prolly use it instead of Steam.
There's at least 2 stores in melbourne that sells PC prices at or near RRP (50 USD), there are also online stores like playasia. If they can charge RRP, I see no reason why steam can't either (though it may not be entirely their decision).
Steam was originally a DRM, in the beginning that's all it was. Perhaps my bias against it is because I've been using it since the start, and it used to be a lot worse than it was now. It was more broken and offered none of the incentives to use it that it did now (other than it being an necessary part of me playing half life). I still have issues from time to time, but it's very rare for a steam malfunction to destroy a lan (where it used to be nearly a weekly occurrence) but it still (annoyingly) happens.
Look, I probably have worse experiences with steam than most people, I have two computers and logging into 1 fucks up the stored credentials of the other. I don't like have all my games installed at once so I do regularly try and backup (which as a tendency to break), I also lan regularly and game on my laptop at uni (uni has blocked steam so no internet access). It's fair to assume that other people aren't as put out by steam as I am, and I am very critical of how put out I am, a lot of users probably just ignore the little bothers of the system and think nothing of it- I clearly don't. I am particularly furious (still) about them trying to sneak in a software component to their hardware surveys without making it abundantly obvious, but again, not everyone cares about keeping their personal information to themselves as me. Look, ultimately some people are happy under a dictator, and valve don't especially malicious (why I didn't do the old comparison to stalin or hitler) but they do have more control than I'm comfortable with, and than what I think is necessary or fair...I wouldn't be happy if father christmas had that level of control.
Lol what a moron. Someone really needs to tell all these shockingly stupid and pompous CEO's to stop running their mouths all the time with asinine predictions.
To be fair, Stardock are a pretty good company in regards to how they treat their customers. They even give refunds if you don't like their games which is an unheard of thing for digital sales. I expect to vanish though when Gamestop take over.
I smell a bit of bias from this man... I'm sure his paycheck doesn't affect his judgment at all.
But we best remember lessons learned from our mistakes.
I do want to see some competition to Steam so they wont end up dictating the market, but this guy is jumping the gun.
Gamestop is just a chain of shops. They have no technical knowhow to bring to the table, not even affinity with PC gaming and it's audience, like Stardock have.
The best thing Gamestop can do is let Impulse do it's own thing and collect the meager profits.
As soon as Gamestop decide to tinker with the management of Impulse, it's likely to crash and burn.
Still if I were Valve, I'd try to butter up the Stardock CEO, now that they nolonger own Impulse and try to get them to release their games on Steam.
The most common reason to use impulse, is Stardock games. Take that away and that's one competitor less.
Well right now new titles for pc are cheaper from gamestop than they are from Steam but thats about it. Steams deals can sometimes make me look at games I would never have even noticed before, only bad thing is that you have to download them
I cant see gamestop beating Steam at online distribution though.... pretty much ever.
If you want to beat steam, you are going to have to copy exactly what steam does, literally! There is no other way. Its sheer convenience and constant discounts currently trumps everything.
Also, who plays PC games anymore, certainly not Gamestop customers
I love Steam. I've used it for years and I don't see changing. Very rarely I use D2D. But Gamestop has little chance of beating Steam. I tend to avoid them as much as possible in person... why would I wanna deal with the same overpriced stuff when I know Steam might have it between 25%-75% off. Their deals are usually pretty awesome. Hard to beat sets of 4 games for 20 bucks or holiday sales.
Of course you would think that. Your internet connection hasn't been cut off, or your account hacked or Gabe "Lard Lad" Newell hasn't terminated your account for any reason at any time. And any of these prevent you from playing any of the games you paid full price for.
If that's not intrusive DRM, I don't know what is.
I never heard of unreasonable banning in steam, unless you got some kind of proof that this indeed happening, than go ahead, if you come me with some cheater who got his ass handed to himself, than yeah he deserved it.
Account hacking can happen everyday every time, depending how secure your system is, just as someone can steal stuff from your house, so another ridiculous argument.
Ever heard something like the..uhm..I dunno...steam offline modus?
Most games work offline I myself have 134 games, mostly from incredible cheap sales or bundles and what not, and I haven't encountered a game that I can't start in my offline modus and why would I care anyway, steam takes next to no resources and I'm sure its "just" as intrusive in sending in how you play the game like any other game, yes I had to block access to several single player offline games already and I rather take steam than all this securerom shit anyday.
So for me those accusations are just that.
Furthermore I just love steam, the ability to just go over to a friends house and just dl the game there makes it so much better, a few weeks ago I was on a visit by a friend, we talked about games and he thought he might buy a few games, but was unsure if they are the right thing..lucky me I had the games in my library, downloaded them and let him play the games, thus he decided to get the games.
I don't actually care for boxes or DvD's, installing new games just takes as much time as downloading them anyway and my DvD Racket is already overflown anyway and what if I got the box, it will jsut stand around and gather dust, loose it or misplace it and you never have the chance to get the game back and I think the chance of that is higher than account hacking.
These seems like the most likely good scenario. Valve must be stopped, no matter the cost.
The ideal scenario is that digital distribution dies and we go back to mom & pop retail.
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