French Politician: Assassin's Creed is "Propaganda Against the People"

[josh4president]

Jean-Luc Mélenchon confirmed for Templar.

 

[Daverson]

We should maybe cut the guy some slack, yeah? He's clearly actually played the game rather than just screaming some bullshit along the lines of "games cause serial rapermurderers! OMG! CENSOR! CENSOR! BAN! BAN!".

(Admittedly, I haven't played it - not really my shebang, and well, fuck uPlay. So I'm just going on how authoritative he seems to be about it and how no ones contradicting him on it.)

 

[Paragon Fury]

Okay, kinda weird the comments here. I guess it might have to do with Americans and American history not being that long.
And maybe to do with this game being set in a country that is not America and is actually tied to reliable historical events.

Let's say this game (which uses a historical setting and tries to appear to be historically accurate) portrays George Washington personally torturing and literally crucifying captured enemy soldiers. Showing Abraham Lincoln as a deranged tyrant.
And so on.

You would be saying different things here then, wouldn't you?

If George Washington or Abraham Lincoln, after gaining power, took part in or allowed the executing tens of thousands of supposed political enemies, I would have a hard time arguing against that portrayal of them even if it were strictly apocryphal. Since none of that happened, I would call such a portrayal out of character for the person and the times.

Edit: Also, it seems to me that Bioshock Infinite did attempted to do something along those lines.

Actually, the story DLC for ACIII does just that.

In the story, George Washington finds the Apple of Eden and goes power crazy and sets himself up as the all-powerful dictator King George of the United States, brutalizing people etc. Instead of fighting the British and Templars, the alternate history has Connor fighting against GW and freeing the US.

Its a side "What If?" story, but it still exists.

 

[Dragonlayer]

A French leftist complaining about the truthful portrayal of horrible things French leftists did during the Revolution? Well I never!

I'd have thought that if anyone was going to complain about the Creed game, it'd be any number of faithful because the games entire premise runs on the idea that all religion is false.

 

[Ukomba]

Okay, kinda weird the comments here. I guess it might have to do with Americans and American history not being that long.
And maybe to do with this game being set in a country that is not America and is actually tied to reliable historical events.

Let's say this game (which uses a historical setting and tries to appear to be historically accurate) portrays George Washington personally torturing and literally crucifying captured enemy soldiers. Showing Abraham Lincoln as a deranged tyrant.
And so on.

You would be saying different things here then, wouldn't you?

If George Washington or Abraham Lincoln, after gaining power, took part in or allowed the executing tens of thousands of supposed political enemies, I would have a hard time arguing against that portrayal of them even if it were strictly apocryphal. Since none of that happened, I would call such a portrayal out of character for the person and the times.

Edit: Also, it seems to me that Bioshock Infinite did attempted to do something along those lines.

Actually, the story DLC for ACIII does just that.

In the story, George Washington finds the Apple of Eden and goes power crazy and sets himself up as the all-powerful dictator King George of the United States, brutalizing people etc. Instead of fighting the British and Templars, the alternate history has Connor fighting against GW and freeing the US.

Its a side "What If?" story, but it still exists.

That sounds like it would actually be pretty fun, I'll have to hunt down a lets play of that. I love alternate time line stuff. That was my favorite part of DBZ Budokai and the only good stuff from The Force Unleashed.

 

[Lieju]

Spoiler: This is a real concern. This game could cause Robespierre to lose face.

They should be required to grow a thin mustache and beard combo. Even if they already have facial hair. Or are women. That's how cartoony they are!

I just usually wear my fake moustache for the moustache-twirling purposes. You could also give them a German or a Russian accent, of course.

Robespierre with a Russian accent.
Hire me Ubisoft.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

He received approximately 11% of the vote in the country's 2012 election.

This should be all the information one needs to know about this guy and his deal. Oh wow, even a cultural Napoleon Complex reference works here...
The only thing worse than a politician in power is a failed politician who won't go away.

 

[Dalisclock]

So,

1.) It's not as if the Assassins creed series has ever been super Historically accurate, so them not appealing to your views on the revolution shouldn't bother you that much.

2.) Unless there's some super secret history of the Revolution I missed, the fact Robespierre was totally in favor of mass executions of innocent people isn't exactly disputed by historians. And that enough is enough to make him a monster.

It actually makes me sad, considering apparently he started out as a man with high ideals(a human rights lawyer apparently). It seems bizarre go to from "The rights of man" to "Off with their heads".

 

[shintakie10]

Okay, kinda weird the comments here. I guess it might have to do with Americans and American history not being that long.
And maybe to do with this game being set in a country that is not America and is actually tied to reliable historical events.

Let's say this game (which uses a historical setting and tries to appear to be historically accurate) portrays George Washington personally torturing and literally crucifying captured enemy soldiers. Showing Abraham Lincoln as a deranged tyrant.
And so on.

You would be saying different things here then, wouldn't you?

Abe Lincoln as a deranged tyrants a bit of a stretch, but he was pretty underhanded in his dealings. He wasn't afraid to bully and threaten and bribe politicians to get his way. Now, most of the time his bullying/threatening/bribing was for the good of the people in general, but its still pretty scummy to do.

I don't really know enough about George Washington to have any opinions though. American textbooks barely cover the man and the only few things I remember him doing as president was to put down a taxation rebellion at one point.

So,

1.) It's not as if the Asssins creed series has ever been super Historically accurate, so them not appealing to your views on the revoltuon shouldn't bother you that much.

2.) Unless there's some super secret history of the Revolution I missed, the fact Robespierre was totally in favor of mass executions of innocent people isn't exactly disputed by historians. And that enough is enough to make him a monster.

It actually makes me sad, considering apparently he started out as a man with high ideal(a human rights lawyer) apparently. It seems bizarre go to from "The rights of man" to "Off with their heads".

It was probably the old absolute power corrupts absolutely thing.

 

[Dalisclock]

Abe Lincoln as a deranged tyrants a bit of a stretch, but he was pretty underhanded in his dealings. He wasn't afraid to bully and threaten and bribe politicians to get his way. Now, most of the time his bullying/threatening/bribing was for the good of the people in general, but its still pretty scummy to do.

Lincoln pulled some shady crap, like suspension of Habeus corpus, presiding over a war where American cities were burned to the ground, the farce of the Emancipation Proclamation, sending in soldiers to put down the draft riots(and the way the draft was handled). This is the kind of stuff you could draw from to say "Lincoln was a tyrant".

Still doesn't hold a candle to Robespierre's Reign of Terror(which he seemed to be quite proud of).

 

[Dalisclock]

Does anyone else find it strange that in a game with so many problem, depicting Robespierre as a mass-murdering dick is the one thing this guy is angry about?

I'm all for kicking Ubisoft over this, but dammit, criticize them for something they deserve. Like the no-face thing, or running like molasses in a freezer.

 

[Something Amyss]

Spoiler: This is a real concern. This game could cause Robespierre to lose face.

They should be required to grow a thin mustache and beard combo. Even if they already have facial hair. Or are women. That's how cartoony they are!

I just usually wear my fake moustache for the moustache-twirling purposes. You could also give them a German or a Russian accent, of course.

Robespierre with a Russian accent.
Hire me Ubisoft.

If they don't want to hire you, just twil your mustache. they're clearly interested in evil.

 

[Spartan448]

Um... Correct me if I'm wrong, but but didn't Robespierre have everyone guillotine'd, not just the rich dudes?

 

[TheMightyMeekling]

Um... Correct me if I'm wrong, but but didn't Robespierre have everyone guillotine'd, not just the rich dudes?

Yeah, he pretty much established the police state: Nationalistic fervor, sentencing everyone that objects to death... You know the deal.

 

[Strazdas]

He is correct. Unity is not a realistic portrayal of french revolution. during french revolution People did not suddenly fall through the ground nor did their faces suddenly melted off. they didnt randomly hung themselves from invisible walls or thier legs suddenly started working against what humanly possible.

 

[beastro]

he specifically cited the (in his view) depictions of Revolutionaries as "barbarians, bloodthirsty savages"

Except they were. Doesn't matter if they driven to that point, the ancien regime pales in comparison to the insane murderous pack of idiots that define that period of Western History little different from how Hohenzollern's and Imperial Germans were blundering fools compared to the cunning, sickening evil of the Nazis.

The French Revolution is one of the worst events to have befallen Mankind and one specific reason for that is echoed in this idiots words: That they made into a virtual the chaotic and violent emotional swings of the masses in typical French fashion, in contrast to the sensible, traditional, moderate and evolutionary form of democracy that is the Anglo-Saxon tradition which sought above all else to restrain all the passions of all in the Sea of Humanity.

Lincoln pulled some shady crap, like suspension of Habeus corpus, presiding over a war where American cities were burned to the ground, the farce of the Emancipation Proclamation, sending in soldiers to put down the draft riots(and the way the draft was handled). This is the kind of stuff you could draw from to say "Lincoln was a tyrant".

The issues comes down to Lincoln having an conscience and restoring the Union to the state it once was as much as he possibly could after the war. He was in a hard position that was tantamount to destroying the Republic to save it and he did better than most give him credit for if only for the fact that he could have never bothered to restore those rights after the war since it would be easier to govern without them, the very danger all crisis place in people's hands and a temptation he resisted as admirably as Washington did by refusing to assert greater authority over the Republic when he has strong backing to do so.

As for burning cities to the ground, it was needed just as it was needed to firebomb Germany and Japan: To get to into the enemies head that they'd lost the war and to not entertain any thoughts that they'd been cheated by giving them solid proof in the wrecking of their land.

The sad and evil fact of war is that peace will only come when the enemy WANTS IT, if it doesn't a new war will happen and the best way to prevent that from happening to it make them bleed and hell of a lot until they beg you to stop.

As I said, it's a sad and evil fact, but one that's even worse is that people shy away from doing that and increasingly do so resulting in an even sadder and worse fact that they only succeed in making the death count larger.

Better to burn whole tracks of land and kill a million to prevent another war that would result in the deaths of ten times that many.

Oh, and Honest Abe was kind of a dick.

So? What would have been gained if he hadn't been?

You'll find a lot of people throughout history that did good in the end were major dicks. They knew intimately that it's better to do good than simply be nice. A good example of that being the likes of people like Patton, Rickover and LeMay: assholes win wars, what's important that is that they're assholes with a conscience.

 

[Extragorey]

Never posted here but I think this is the right time to begin because I feel quite concerned as a french man.

I remembered some people complained about the DLC in AC3 about George Washington while it was clearly said to be an uchronia.
Now AC Unity based a lot of its promotion on history and "oh see, we have historians on the team", they looked pretty proud about it. Sounds logical people backlash when the expectation isn't met. Exactly like when you have a hardscience fiction which does the physics wrong.

As for Melenchon, I'm french as I said and I really don't like him. I'm pretty sure raising the problem with AC Unity is basically part of his political agenda since he was regularly targeted for "hating France" (which is quite stupid also by the way). He also supported video game as an art form in several interviews after this "incident" and says that he should be allowed to criticise and debate its contents the same way he can do it for any other art form. Sadly I must agree with him on that. Though, it also looks like a way for him to show to everyone that he is "progressive and support video games", he likes to try to be the "cool" guy around. But I must admit he is probably one of the only french politics who did say that video games should be recognise as an art form.
STILL, Melenchon is mostly a formerly successful politician who tries to continu existing by trolling (I'm not joking, he trolls a lot). But he did start a big controversy in France with this.

As for the realism in AC Unity, its portrayal of revolution IS simplistic. History is not as simple as that. AC Unity just uses all the popular tropes about the french revolution. Believe or not, even in France these tropes are classics and many people believe that the revolution is as simple as :
King lacked skills => Revolution => Terror => Napoleon
This is just not as simple. Revolutionaries also wrote the the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen, they abolished slavery, and much more. Of course you had terrible times too, like in most revolutions btw, but don't forget the Revolution was a 10 years event. You can't summarise it by the Terror.

Now, did Ubisoft did bad ? Probably not, the Terror must be the best period for an AC game. It's a really harsh, violent chaotic time in Paris and all France.
It still felt to me that if they didn't want problems about history, they should have said "this is an uchronia" the same way they said it for George Washington's DLC in AC3, though.

Is this controversy good for video games ? Surprisingly enough, I think it is in France. Major medias are talking about this debate, about games, not to say "games make you violent and are toys for kids" but to discuss if history should be taken seriously in games. It is a valid debate, a debate that movies, books, any art form is subject to. The fact that a politician, even if I don't like him, even if it is for political agenda, brings this debate on TV while repeating that he considers video games an art form... is a good thing, in my opinion.

Also: he admitted he hasn't played the game and was complaining about the contents in the trailers. Since people were asking.
Also again: the picture of the article is hilarious

Thanks for giving your two cents, it's good to hear the opinion of someone who actually lives in the country in question.

Now, I don't know Mélenchon or what his political agendas may be, but I do think you made a good point in saying it's a good controversy to have. If Assassin's Creed Unity creates this sort of discussion (internationally, no less), then it shines a spotlight on that period of French history and motivates people to investigate the truth for themselves.
It would be a far greater travesty if the game simply came and went with high critical acclaim and no vocal backlash, because that would mean people just accepted the pseudo-historical Paris portrayed as being a solid if not accurate representation of the real Revolution.

So it's good that people get offended at the game - it opens the door to an honest exploration of the French Revolution. I'm sure many players have Googled/Wiki'd the Revolution since playing Unity to see how accurate its version of events actually is.

 

[Czann]

"who left France's Socialist Party in 2008 to found The Left Party"

Of course! How could it be different?

I guess he forgot the revolution had rivers of blood flowing from Robespierre's madness.

 

[bificommander]

I'd say portraying Robspierre as a villain is no more than fair. If the nobles are indeed portrayed as flawless, as this guys suggests, that'd be less cool.

But what I think is the real blow to "games as art" here is that they made Robspierre a Templar, when it would've been more interesting and fitting if he'd been a (renegade) Assassin.

Disclaimer, I've only played a bit of Black Flag, but what I got from the story was that the whole Templar vs Assassin thing was about Order vs Freedom. Not a bad setup, but it was presented in a rather simplistic way. The only kind of Order was tyranny, and mass-murdering and plundering your way through the Carribean is an acceptable way to express your freedom. (I assume Connor eventually has some character growth, but the other Assassins aren't bothering to stop him in the first half of the game.)

But the French Revolution setting gave them the chance to put some nuance into this conflict. The French Revolution started as an attempt of the oppressed to gain freedom by overthrowing the order of the nobles. It sounds like the kind of thing the Assassins would support. And what with the Assassins already being all about murdering people so others can be free, maybe some of them lost sight of that whole "don't kill innocents"-bit in their creed. Doesn't seem that long of a slippery slope. I mean, for all of the Assassin's lofty ideals about only killing the evil leaders, I think your typical AC playthrough nets you a sufficient bodycount in guards (and, in Black flag, sailors) to qualify as a minor reign of terror all by yourself.

But, unless I'm much mistaken, that doesn't sound like the route Ubisoft took with Unity. Robspierre is apparently just another Templar. Yawn.