Funny events in anti-woke world

Jarrito3002

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Something something monsters, something something becoming them. :(

For what it's worth, I somehow stumbled across Zontar on Twitter as well. He seems to have gone off the deep end.
Found him and I personally see no difference from his last round of post and what he is posting now.
 
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Terminal Blue

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Yeah...remember Saelune? How the defintion of Nazi and fascist became a bit more...flexible?
Saelune, when we knew her, was a young transwoman living in the US. She was clearly in a very difficult point in her life of having to come to terms with the fact that a significant number of people in her own country wanted her to not exist, and that a far, far greater proportion either didn't care about that or were engaged in actively exploiting it for political gain. She was watching her own existence and her basic rights to things everyone else takes for granted become a "political issue" to be debated and, for her, it was probably the first time. Those of us who are a bit older have seen this before, but she clearly had not and had not developed the special kind of emotional resilience it takes to endure something like that.

It's easy to avoid the connection between actual Hitler saluting neo-Nazis and the totally 100% very politically moderate people who coincidentally indulge or defend the same beliefs.. as long as it's not you in the firing line. Although let's be real, a lot of on this forum at the time couldn't see that line either and were determined to conclude that actual, ideological Nazis who used Nazi symbolism were just ironic memers, or that the mythical "SJW"s were the real Nazis because they said mean things about video games. I didn't agree with everything Saelune said, but what always upset me far, far more than anything she said was the lack of empathy she received. There are very obvious reasons why she felt the way she did, and some of you could have stood to meditate on those reasons for at least a minute.

For what it's worth, I somehow stumbled across Zontar on Twitter as well. He seems to have gone off the deep end.
I don't think there was a deep end to go off there.

Zontar was an actual, literal neo-Nazi. He went around saying actual, literal neo-Nazi things on this very forum for a long time before being banned. I always found him kind of funny and pathetic. Saelune didn't though.
 

Hawki

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YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO JUST SAY THAT AND NOT SHARE A LINK YOU CRUEL SOUL

Found him and I personally see no difference from his last round of post and what he is posting now.
I guess the difference for me is that what I recall of Zontar, he had something of a cohesive ideology - the SJWs were after gaming, pandering is bad, etc. Basically, standard SQW stuff. Looking at the thread now, it seems to boil down to:

1: I see something I dislike.

2: I roll the dice as to whether I call them a fascist, socialist, or communist (seriously, he uses the terms interchangably, so either he's bonkers, or some kind of 'radical centrist,' but that doesn't explain his clear preference for Bernier)

3: Call the thing/person by that name.

4: Repeat.

Saelune, when we knew her, was a young transwoman living in the US. She was clearly in a very difficult point in her life of having to come to terms with the fact that a significant number of people in her own country wanted her to not exist, and that a far, far greater proportion either didn't care about that or were engaged in actively exploiting it for political gain. She was watching her own existence and her basic rights to things everyone else takes for granted become a "political issue" to be debated and, for her, it was probably the first time. Those of us who are a bit older have seen this before, but she clearly had not and had not developed the special kind of emotional resilience it takes to endure something like that.

It's easy to avoid the connection between actual Hitler saluting neo-Nazis and the totally 100% very politically moderate people who coincidentally indulge or defend the same beliefs.. as long as it's not you in the firing line. Although let's be real, a lot of on this forum at the time couldn't see that line either and were determined to conclude that actual, ideological Nazis who used Nazi symbolism were just ironic memers, or that the mythical "SJW"s were the real Nazis because they said mean things about video games. I didn't agree with everything Saelune said, but what always upset me far, far more than anything she said was the lack of empathy she received. There are very obvious reasons why she felt the way she did, and some of you could have stood to meditate on those reasons for at least a minute.
-Who's "politically moderate" that indulges or defends Nazi beliefs? I'm talking about actual Nazi beliefs, not the spectrum of beliefs that might eventually take you to Nazism.

-What Nazis were actually on these forums? Let's take it as writ that Zontar was a Neo-Nazi, who else? It's very easy to identify Nazis, or at least, everyone, everywhere, seems to accept that Nazis are bad, but that doesn't address every other position. With Saelune, we went from 0 to 100.

-By extension, um, remember the 8 Values Test? This forum veers way, WAY left. The type of left that has resulted in calls for things like complete police abolition, and using the US military to remove every Jew from Israel. There's no shortage of beliefs here I find very disturbing, which is why there's some users I no longer really engage with.

-Speaking of Saelune herself, I imagine she had issues, but if she had issues, a forum like this really isn't the best place to deal with them. I certainly ended up saying to Saelune that she was right about Trump, that when he was elected I didn't imagine how into the deep end he would go, but if you have someone who's calling everyone and everything a fascist/Nazi, then there isn't much you can do. You can either indulge them, or ignore them, or try and play a shrink, which would likely do more harm than good.
 

Revnak

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Damn, he’s not changed at all. Literally the exact same dude defending the exact same people with the exact same arguments even after everything else. Trying to figure out how everyone else is a Nazi Communist and he supports the last true populist liberal conservatism which somehow is just whatever Trump thinks and triggers libs. It’s odd watching genres of conservatism get completely dropped by the mainstream of their movement while the devotees of it maintain such dedicated loyalty.

Edit: “Trump” is probably the wrong person to say he’s loyal to, I don’t know if I’d really say it’s a person he’s loyal to at all. It’s some father figure he’s sure exists and can tell him all the right things to think so he can go back to playing games and masturbating. It’s altogether sadder than a loyalty to a man. He’s loyal to a ghost.
 
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Revnak

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-Who's "politically moderate" that indulges or defends Nazi beliefs? I'm talking about actual Nazi beliefs, not the spectrum of beliefs that might eventually take you to Nazism.

-What Nazis were actually on these forums? Let's take it as writ that Zontar was a Neo-Nazi, who else? It's very easy to identify Nazis, or at least, everyone, everywhere, seems to accept that Nazis are bad, but that doesn't address every other position. With Saelune, we went from 0 to 100.
I don’t particularly care to defend Saelune (my last conversation with her was me explaining why I hated her if I remember correctly), but a big part of fascism is that it takes the implications and language of existing conservatism around it and just takes it to a logical conclusion. Italian conservatism already was militaristic, upset Italy didn’t have colonies, mad about the outcome of WWI, angry at communists, etc, and Mussolini just took that and acted on it. He killed the communists for them, marched with guns, brought up his military service, took and promoted direct action to seize territories Italians believed were rightfully theirs post WWI, etc. Fascism is supposed to be hard to see from the inside if you already buy into Nationalism.
 

Thaluikhain

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-Who's "politically moderate" that indulges or defends Nazi beliefs? I'm talking about actual Nazi beliefs, not the spectrum of beliefs that might eventually take you to Nazism.
Eh, on the old forum, a lot of people were interested in denying that people marching round with swastikas chanting "kill the Jews" and claiming to be Nazis were Nazis. I'm not going to say they are politically moderate, but they tended to claim they were.

-Speaking of Saelune herself, I imagine she had issues, but if she had issues, a forum like this really isn't the best place to deal with them. I certainly ended up saying to Saelune that she was right about Trump, that when he was elected I didn't imagine how into the deep end he would go, but if you have someone who's calling everyone and everything a fascist/Nazi, then there isn't much you can do. You can either indulge them, or ignore them, or try and play a shrink, which would likely do more harm than good.
I disagreed with Saelune on lots of issues. She never called me a Nazi. I'm sure that's the case for other users as well.

Now, sure, she did call a lot of Trump supporters and GOP leaders Nazis, but there's probably a reason for that.
 

Agema

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Edit: “Trump” is probably the wrong person to say he’s loyal to, I don’t know if I’d really say it’s a person he’s loyal to at all. It’s some father figure he’s sure exists and can tell him all the right things to think so he can go back to playing games and masturbating. It’s altogether sadder than a loyalty to a man. He’s loyal to a ghost.
I don't particularly want to spend too long judging ex-users who aren't around to defend themselves, but I certainly think he had a lot of unhappiness, anger and frustration. One can perhaps understand stewing in those emotions, but there are more constructive ways to get on with life.

I don’t particularly care to defend Saelune (my last conversation with her was me explaining why I hated her if I remember correctly), but a big part of fascism is that it takes the implications and language of existing conservatism around it and just takes it to a logical conclusion. Italian conservatism already was militaristic, upset Italy didn’t have colonies, mad about the outcome of WWI, angry at communists, etc, and Mussolini just took that and acted on it. He killed the communists for them, marched with guns, brought up his military service, took and promoted direct action to seize territories Italians believed were rightfully theirs post WWI, etc. Fascism is supposed to be hard to see from the inside if you already buy into Nationalism.
Pretty much. Trump isn't a fascist - he's far too self-absorbed and ignorant to have any coherent political ideology. But he was a sort of proto-fascist president, who has very happily dived into the sort of rhetoric and attitudes common to fascism, and in the process further normalised them. A big chunk of the country - mostly on the right - are presidposed to fascistic policies and attitudes, so tapping into that can be very powerful. If you gently bump them along a bit at a time, you can have them murdering social desirables in a decade or two: slow, incremental changes are much harder to perceive.

Or you can look at Brazil and Bolsonaro. Bolsonaro is very worryingly close to overt fascism. What's even more disturbing is that his poll woes are not his rage, authoritarianism and unhinged animosity towards anyone outside the conservative right, it's simply that he has been judged by many Brazilians to be incompetent. But then he's still on ~30% and still has a shot at winning next year.
 

Revnak

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I don't particularly want to spend too long judging ex-users who aren't around to defend themselves, but I certainly think he had a lot of unhappiness, anger and frustration. One can perhaps understand stewing in those emotions, but there are more constructive ways to get on with life.
Correct on all counts I think, including the first. I probably started this (not sure and I’m not checking but that sounds right) and I’ll happily end it if only so I don’t get a bunch of screenshots dm’d to me on Discord again because I made fun of the wrong banned user.

Pretty much. Trump isn't a fascist - he's far too self-absorbed and ignorant to have any coherent political ideology. But he was a sort of proto-fascist president, who has very happily dived into the sort of rhetoric and attitudes common to fascism, and in the process further normalised them. A big chunk of the country - mostly on the right - are presidposed to fascistic policies and attitudes, so tapping into that can be very powerful. If you gently bump them along a bit at a time, you can have them murdering social desirables in a decade or two: slow, incremental changes are much harder to perceive.

Or you can look at Brazil and Bolsonaro. Bolsonaro is very worryingly close to overt fascism. What's even more disturbing is that his poll woes are not his rage, authoritarianism and unhinged animosity towards anyone outside the conservative right, it's simply that he has been judged by many Brazilians to be incompetent. But then he's still on ~30% and still has a shot at winning next year.
I pretty much agree on both. I’d argue that there’s no real line between proto-fascists and fascists but opportunity though. Fascist movements require a lot of different kinds of “leader” and Trump is certainly one of them but he never connected with the other kinds of them because he thinks they’re gross and low-class. Bolsonaro is too shameless to have that concern.
 

Hawki

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I don’t particularly care to defend Saelune (my last conversation with her was me explaining why I hated her if I remember correctly),
Hate's a strong word. What did you have against Saelune to warrant that?

Fascism is supposed to be hard to see from the inside if you already buy into Nationalism.
That's probably true for any number of ideologies.

Like I said, there's been no shortage of claims on this forum that I've found disturbing - they aren't the sole purview of the right.

Eh, on the old forum, a lot of people were interested in denying that people marching round with swastikas chanting "kill the Jews" and claiming to be Nazis were Nazis. I'm not going to say they are politically moderate, but they tended to claim they were.
How old is old?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I became a member in 2014, and don't recall any of that. Even at Charlotsville, I don't recall anyone doubting the Nazis marching were actual Nazis.

I disagreed with Saelune on lots of issues. She never called me a Nazi. I'm sure that's the case for other users as well.
Saelune didn't call me a Nazi per se, but definitely regarded me as Nazi/fascist-adjacent. Not those exact words, but definitely lumped me in with "the undesirables."

Then again, Revnak accused me of being a white supremacist awhile back, so I dunno, maybe I'm a Nazi and I just don't know it. 0_0

Now, sure, she did call a lot of Trump supporters and GOP leaders Nazis, but there's probably a reason for that.
A reason? Yeah, I guess. It's a fact that Trump gained the support of Nazis and white supremacists, and even giving Trump the benefit of the doubt, has repeatedly refused to distance himself from them.

I guess for me, I'd rather reserve terms for people/situations that they're applicable to. The right plays this game, throwing around "socialist/communist/Marxist" around regardless of context, and recently, so has the left, throwing around "fascist/Nazi/racist." We can dispute when one crosses the boundary into these domains, but if you're going to call everyone who disagrees with you a "Nazi," or your definition of socialism is "gee, maybe universal healthcare is a good idea," then it dilutes the actual meanings of these terms.

There's also the thing about Nazism itself, because it's the one political/belief system that everyone agrees on was bad. I mean, okay, sure, but saying "Nazism is bad" is like shooting fish in a barrel. Knowing when the right goes too far right (or the left too far left)...that's far more subjective.
 

Agema

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There's also the thing about Nazism itself, because it's the one political/belief system that everyone agrees on was bad.
Do they, though?

Almost everyone agrees that there was a political party that took over Germany in the 1930s and did a load of despicable things that they think was bad. However, if you start to place the policies of that party in a different context and with a different brand, are they still going to hate it? Strong leader? Discipline? Militarism? Social conservatism? Nationalism? Xenophobia? And so on. Suddenly, it's really not "everyone" who is against it. In fact, studies suggest around a quarter of the population of Western countries find it appealing, and a load more are not so opposed that they couldn't be swayed to back it by the right circumstances and motivation. Exactly like in 1930s Germany, of course.

Sure, they'll set a lot of alarm bells ringing the minute they discuss murdering sections of society, but remember that the Nazis were quiet on that score (especially in the early days) too. That's a project for when they've got to the top and safely bedded themselves in.

And this is why I call Trump a proto-fascist. He's a warning. A comically inept narcissist maybe, but one who realised that there was big popularity to be won appealing to a host of fascistic attitudes.
 
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Hawki

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Do they, though?

Almost everyone agrees that there was a political party that took over Germany in the 1930s and did a load of despicable things that they think was bad. However, if you start to place the policies of that party in a different context and with a different brand, are they still going to hate it? Strong leader? Discipline? Militarism? Social conservatism? Nationalism? Xenophobia? And so on. Suddenly, it's really not "everyone" who is against it. In fact, studies suggest around a quarter of the population of Western countries find it appealing, and a load more are not so opposed that they couldn't be swayed to back it by the right circumstances and motivation. Exactly like in 1930s Germany, of course.

Sure, they'll set a lot of alarm bells ringing the minute they discuss murdering sections of society, but remember that the Nazis were quiet on that score (especially in the early days) too. That's a project for when they've got to the top and safely bedded themselves in.

And this is why I call Trump a proto-fascist. He's a warning. A comically inept narcissist maybe, but one who realised that there was big popularity to be won appealing to a host of fascistic attitudes.
I fully agree that you can embark on a trend that will lead you to Nazism through fascism. Though Nazism, I'd maintain, is a distinct form of fascism. And strongmen are, regrettably, pretty common in the world, regardless of political orientation. I guess when I say that "we all agree Nazism is bad," it's in the sense that we see it as this 'thing' that you can't get any more evil than. People might follow right-wing strongman, but even taking your percentage figure as writ, I suspect a lot of them would balk at an actual Nazi running for power.

As for Trump, maybe he's a proto-fascist, maybe not, but definitely an attempted strongman. Appeals to a bygone past? Check. Demonization of minorities? Check. Attempts to sabotage the democratic process? Check. Bastard's still running free?

...check. :(
 
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Agema

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I fully agree that you can embark on a trend that will lead you to Nazism through fascism. Though Nazism, I'd maintain, is a distinct form of fascism.
Naziism is a form of fascism. Fascism is a form of right-wing authoritarianism. Numerous right-wing authoritarians (e.g. Franco and Salazar) were not technically fascists, but nor were they really far off, at least for substantial stretches of their reigns.

I suspect a lot of them would balk at an actual Nazi running for power.
Sure. But they might not baulk at a right-wing authoritarian relative close to an actual Nazi.

As for Trump, maybe he's a proto-fascist, maybe not, but definitely an attempted strongman.
Attempted indeed: the irony of Trump is that he was in key ways very weak. Of course, one of the ways he was weak was due to the institutions of the US government, which were designed precisely to make it hard for a president to behave like an autocrat.

I find the idea of "strongmen" quite depressing. It has a strange emotional hold over so many voters, despite the fact that most "strongmen" are objectively bad leaders. But (as in the case of Trump) it is often the image or projection of strength that people seem to admire rather than whether they do a good job.
 

Cheetodust

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Naziism is a form of fascism. Fascism is a form of right-wing authoritarianism. Numerous right-wing authoritarians (e.g. Franco and Salazar) were not technically fascists, but nor were they really far off, at least for substantial stretches of their reigns.



Sure. But they might not baulk at a right-wing authoritarian relative close to an actual Nazi.



Attempted indeed: the irony of Trump is that he was in key ways very weak. Of course, one of the ways he was weak was due to the institutions of the US government, which were designed precisely to make it hard for a president to behave like an autocrat.

I find the idea of "strongmen" quite depressing. It has a strange emotional hold over so many voters, despite the fact that most "strongmen" are objectively bad leaders. But (as in the case of Trump) it is often the image or projection of strength that people seem to admire rather than whether they do a good job.
It's hilarious to me how hilariously not strong these "strongmen types" are. Ireland's fasc-adjacent party is the National Party, led by Justin Barrett, a squeeky voiced, 5'4 divorcee with big ears (he's not a hypocrite though, despite being devoutly Catholic and openly against divorce) and I got into a confrontation with a senior member of the party once where he threw a leaflet I had been handing out at me without getting out of his car. Like these guys push the strongman image but like... They're bitches. And I don't like to cast those kinds of aspersions because strength comes in so many different forms and physical strength is arguably the least valuable of them (I'm a Personal trainer studying for a BSc in strength coaching) but they put so much value on it and they do not have it and the fact that their supporters buy into it is hilarious and tragic.

Edit:long day no synonyms for hilarious brain work bad
 
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Revnak

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It's hilarious to me how hilariously not strong these "strongmen types" are. Ireland's fasc-adjacent party is the National Party, led by Justin Barrett, a squeeky voiced, 5'4 divorcee with big ears (he's not a hypocrite though, despite being devoutly Catholic and openly against divorce) and I got into a confrontation with a senior member of the party once where he threw a leaflet I had been handing out at me without getting out of his car. Like these guys push the strongman image but like... They're bitches. And I don't like to cast those kinds of aspersions because strength comes in so many different forms and physical strength is arguably the least valuable of them (I'm a Personal trainer studying for a BSc in strength coaching) but they put so much value on it and they do not have it and the fact that their supporters buy into it is hilarious and tragic.
Well that’s the thing, they’re not that kind of fascist. Their movement is missing its killers. Hitler would fight dudes to the death in the street. Yes, it was with a bull penis whip, and yes he was wearing shorts with a trench coat and a fedora whilst doing so, but the guy personally killed dudes. The modern western far-right paints itself in that imagery but none of them actually are that kind of guy.
 

Agema

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It's hilarious to me how hilariously not strong these "strongmen types" are. Ireland's fasc-adjacent party is the National Party, led by Justin Barrett, a squeeky voiced, 5'4 divorcee with big ears (he's not a hypocrite though, despite being devoutly Catholic and openly against divorce) and I got into a confrontation with a senior member of the party once where he threw a leaflet I had been handing out at me without getting out of his car. Like these guys push the strongman image but like... They're bitches. And I don't like to cast those kinds of aspersions because strength comes in so many different forms and physical strength is arguably the least valuable of them (I'm a Personal trainer studying for a BSc in strength coaching) but they put so much value on it and they do not have it and the fact that their supporters buy into it is hilarious and tragic.
Hitler himself, of course, was hardly the sort of physical specimen he lionised. But he genuinely had big ideas and the will and brutality to make them happen, and the willingness to risk punishment like getting a kicking and jail sentence.

Most Western wannabe strongman politicians rarely rise above the level of aggression and petty bullying. Probably because they are little more than mean, aggressive, petty bullies. The lower-middle management of strongman politics, lacking any real vision, wit, guts or great competence. Smallish fish happy to have found a small enough fascist pond they could dominate but not so large they'd have to tangle with the big boys; able to indulge some of their power fantasies without risk of advancing past their limited capabilities.
 

Gergar12

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Sorry about the spelling but Googling States ban gaming PCs I get...

Gaming PCs Banned in Some US States · California · Colorado · Hawaii · Oregon · Vermont · Washington.

You fucking stupid liberal dipshit Governors. You guys leave crypto alone but ban gaming rigs. Thank god I live in Ohio.

Edit: Broadband online again. Here's the evidence.




Edit2: Right now it only affects Alienware, but could extend to other PCs. Also, fuck Gavin Newsom.

Edit3: It's due to new energy regulations regarding consumer computers.
 
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Gordon_4

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Sorry about the spelling but Googling States ban gaming PCs I get...

Gaming PCs Banned in Some US States · California · Colorado · Hawaii · Oregon · Vermont · Washington.

You fucking stupid liberal dipshit Governors. You guys leave crypto alone but ban gaming rigs. Thank god I live in Ohio.

Edit: Broadband online again. Here's the evidence.




Edit2: Right now it only affects Alienware, but could extend to other PCs. Also, fuck Gavin Newsom.

Edit3: It's due to new energy regulations regarding consumer computers.
And it’s law that was passed in 2016 with a grace period of 5 years to give manufacturers time to make the required changes to bring them into line with all other electrical appliances.
 

Gergar12

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And it’s law that was passed in 2016 with a grace period of 5 years to give manufacturers time to make the required changes to bring them into line with all other electrical appliances.
Ah yes, appliances the big devil is climate change. Not finance-based crypto, or giant multi-nationals, or big factory farms, jumbo jetliners, or big cargo ships that take something to make in a country to be assembled in a poorer country to be sold in an even poorer country created by douchecanoe supply chain business majors who couldn't give a rat's ass about the environment.

Also if California really cared about climate change, where's California's carbon tax or mini-green new deal.
 
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Gordon_4

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Ah yes, appliances the big devil is climate change. Not big factory farms, jumbo jetliners, or big cargo ships that take something to made in a country to be assembled in a poorer country to be sold in an even poorer country created by douchecanoe supply chain business majors who couldn't give a rat's ass about the environment.

Also if California really cared about climate change, where's California's carbon tax or mini-green new deal.
Efficient appliances help. They are but one factor of many. And frankly both Intel, AMD and nVidia could do to improve the efficiency of their devices.

As for new green deal, no idea. Perhaps ask the relevant parties and not rhetorically asking me.