Funny events in anti-woke world

Silvanus

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Nope hence why I've been able to predict exactly the arguments people will use and pre-emptively answer them sometimes then quote the post I already countered their argument.
I think your god-brain predictive superpower might be malfunctioning, because you seem to have written a weird spiel about Nazis and Churchill and gay sex that has nothing to do with my post.

To be clearer, my post concerned the fact that learning to identify with others does not stop at age 11.

Sorry I was assuming this was petty shot rather than a misunderstanding of the psychology, it it's the later please feel free to say
Considering the psychology you cited (Piaget and Vygotsky) are both basic high-school content, I don't think there's much risk of that.

Although if you think development of the ability to identify with others ends at 11, you might have failed to grasp it.
 
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tstorm823

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There's no need to justify the inclusion of a fact.
Yes, there is. We don't just make kids read every fact, not that we could if we wanted to.
this is just as mundane a thing as her having hobbies and interacting with her family.
No, it isn't. I'm sorry to tell you this, but pretty much nobody wants to read about your sexual fantasies. That would make most people very uncomfortable.
 

tstorm823

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A - You keep using the word want, evoking an image of a young girl wanting to protect her privacy
Because that's the only thing "want" could mean? You're debating against your own inferences.
B - This conviction is flimsy as shit, because you have no issues with the rest of the edit that the frankensteined book consists of. You're only interested in holding to her edit, when it removes sexuality from the final piece.
That's the only topic of debate here. If there is a different aspect you care to debate, bring it forward.
 

Casual Shinji

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Yes, there is. We don't just make kids read every fact, not that we could if we wanted to.
We don't make them read every fact regarding Anne Frank, since we don't know every fact, but every fact written down by her herself, yes. This isn't a phone book, it's a diary.

No, it isn't. I'm sorry to tell you this, but pretty much nobody wants to read about your sexual fantasies. That would make most people very uncomfortable.
Yes, we wouldn't want to make people reading about the nazi occupation of the Netherlands, and being a Jewish person living in hiding, fearing being discovered and killed or hauled off to a concentration camp uncomfortable. What were they thinking.
 
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tstorm823

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Yes, we wouldn't want to make people reading about the nazi occupation of the Netherlands, and being a Jewish person living in hiding, fearing being discovered and killed or hauled off to a concentration camp uncomfortable. What were they thinking.
Well you see, there is value in teaching about the Holocaust. The discomfort is justified by the positives of being aware of the horrors of genecide in a society that would like to avoid genocide.

People accuse me of beating around the bush and not saying what I think, but none of you are saying the thing you have to believe to justify this: you think there is value in encouraging youth sexuality. You think there is a benefit to having sexual material in history lessons significant enough to justify the inevitable discomfort and controversy. It is not just that you don't think the sexual content is bad, you think it is actively good.
 

dreng3

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Well you see, there is value in teaching about the Holocaust. The discomfort is justified by the positives of being aware of the horrors of genecide in a society that would like to avoid genocide.

People accuse me of beating around the bush and not saying what I think, but none of you are saying the thing you have to believe to justify this: you think there is value in encouraging youth sexuality. You think there is a benefit to having sexual material in history lessons significant enough to justify the inevitable discomfort and controversy. It is not just that you don't think the sexual content is bad, you think it is actively good.
The entire point of using biographical material is to make the story easier to identify with, as such it is reasonable to include a section about something that happens and has happened to almost every single youth in the history of the planet (the asexuals excluded), the exploration of ones sexuality and curiosity about sexual matters.

If a human, personal, angle was not the point the children might as well read loss numbers, war repports and summaries of political speeches along with a list of dates.
Besides, it is not as if any topic thought in middle- or highschool excludes other topics entirely. English will include stuff like youth culture and history, social studies will include history, history will include philosophy and language, at higher level PE will also include matters of biology.

If the book can help some kids not feel weird about those strange new feelings and attractions they're feeling then more power to the teacher that choose it.

And lastly, even the entire debate about removing the section can be discussed from a historical perspective about sanitizing, demonizing, or glorifying historical characters.

So in conclusion, shut up, sit down, and let the real professionals deal with education. You'd undoubtedly do more harm than good if given any say in the matter.
 

Casual Shinji

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People accuse me of beating around the bush and not saying what I think, but none of you are saying the thing you have to believe to justify this: you think there is value in encouraging youth sexuality. You think there is a benefit to having sexual material in history lessons significant enough to justify the inevitable discomfort and controversy. It is not just that you don't think the sexual content is bad, you think it is actively good.
Yes. Yes it is.

Making it clear to young teens, who are themselves going through a sexual awakening, that sexuality is a perfectly normal thing is actively good. It's another one of those facts that exist and should not be hidden away from young people who are impacted by their knowledge of it. And the less knowledge they have the more negative the impact.

Mind you, again, this pertains to a teen girl writing about how she would want to see her friends breasts, and that she wishes to kiss her. This isn't porn, it's the awkward everyday mindset of a teenager. And informing current teenagers of this not only makes what they are feeling perfectly normal and something the vast majority of teens go through, it also establishes a link between them and this girl who lived 78 years ago in wartime Europe. In that they are not so different, and that this girl wasn't just a picture on a book. And no, sexuality isn't necessary to make this link, but in this instant this fact was used for that purpose.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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People accuse me of beating around the bush and not saying what I think, but none of you are saying the thing you have to believe to justify this: you think there is value in encouraging youth sexuality. You think there is a benefit to having sexual material in history lessons significant enough to justify the inevitable discomfort and controversy. It is not just that you don't think the sexual content is bad, you think it is actively good.
I mean, I'm justifying it because it's Anne Franks' Diary, and it was written in Anne Franks' Diary, and I don't believe in sanitizing history. It helps that the "inevitable discomfort and controversy" is so hilariously basic. Goddamn, how fragile *are* you?

As usual, you are very bad at assuming what people think.
 
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The Rogue Wolf

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People accuse me of beating around the bush and not saying what I think, but none of you are saying the thing you have to believe to justify this: you think there is value in encouraging youth sexuality. You think there is a benefit to having sexual material in history lessons significant enough to justify the inevitable discomfort and controversy. It is not just that you don't think the sexual content is bad, you think it is actively good.
For once you're actually 100% correct. And why do we think this way? Because it's healthy- exactly the opposite of the Christian "keep them 'pure' until they reach adulthood at which point they will magically transform into well-adjusted adults ready for responsible relationships" absolute failure of a doctrine.

And since when did the "facts don't care about your feelings" crowd start whining about "discomfort"?
 

Absent

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The boring one
significant enough to justify the inevitable discomfort and controversy.
The "inevitable discomfort and controversy" from people like you is not the high cost you think it is. Go to hell with it.

We don't fire teachers whose books feature visible women hair just because of the "inevitable discomfort and controversy" of islamist fundamentalists. We don't care about christian fundamentalist issues either. We won't re-shape western society around some victorian neurosis just to adjust to your precious unhealthiness. We outgrew that, as a culture.

And yes, we'll keep teaching about these "very fine people" of yours, no matter your perpetual nitpicks about the material used.
 
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Gergar12

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Learn a trade

Do programming

Do IT

Do STEM

Go to College

Go to Trade School

Open a business

Go to business school

Wrong * 8

There is no such thing as being insured from automation, and career obsolescence. 90% of businesses fail in the first 10 years. Programming could be automated, college is useful but is increasingly facing obsolescence due to the internet, STEM is great(While Silicon Valley is preparing to make it irrelevant via 'technological progress' and yes more automation), IT is mostly just troubleshooting/Cyber Security/plugging shit in and is easy to do by the average person every day plus password keycards make it even easy to secure a business, business schools doesn't teach you how to run a business most of the time(Accounting, Finance will be automated by the tech bros, management is easy when people are starving and needs a job in a future that hates workers). Yeah do a trade meanwhile in Shenzen, and Boston they are working on more specialized robotics that are getting better and better each day.

Buy guns, buy bullets, they are the real insurance against bad corporate governance and lazy policymakers. Sorry EU you will have to make do with rioting.

And if a single sociopathic Republican gets elected as president with Congress and a constitutional majority bye-bye Medicaid, Medicare, and SS plus any delusional dreams of UBI or NI(negative income tax).

Here is the future: Hundreds of millions of dead people in the third world(Climate change), tens of millions to hundreds of millions of people dead in the second world(China-led wars, and climate change), and high unemployment rates in the first world of up to 33 to 66% with widespread homelessness.

Oh also CBDC/programmable money means if you are rich and or upper middle class and don't think it's okay to treat your fellow man this way, bye-bye to your money.
 

Ag3ma

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I'm sure you'll nitpick this,
It's not a nitpick at all. It's the fundamental reality that whatever Anne Frank wanted from a writing career, and whether she would have ended up converting her diary into a published work, and if so how it would form the basis of a published work, will forever be unknown.

Works by artists in any field have been scraped together after their deaths for release. It is very likely in many cases that their creators may never have intended anyone to experience them. (In some cases, these works have been published despite explicit instructions in last words and wills that they should not be published.)
 
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tstorm823

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For once you're actually 100% correct.
It's not "for once". In case you haven't noticed, I nearly always know what the rest of you think and you never get what I'm saying. I predict regularly what your responses are, and in return you all completely miss what I'm on about and go directly to strawmen, like:
And since when did the "facts don't care about your feelings" crowd start whining about "discomfort"?
I would never say this. Some facts definitely do care about your feelings.
And why do we think this way? Because it's healthy- exactly the opposite of the Christian "keep them 'pure' until they reach adulthood at which point they will magically transform into well-adjusted adults ready for responsible relationships" absolute failure of a doctrine.
And now that you've all agreed to the silly things you believe, I'm content to let this rest as is. The vast majority of people on the planet would read this discussion and side with me. People who live outside the internet don't think its healthier to be sexualized earlier. I don't need to say much more than that.
 

Bedinsis

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I predict regularly what your responses are, and in return you all completely miss what I'm on about and go directly to strawmen
(emphasis mine) 5 people responded to your last post. I'd argue at most 2 people went to strawman. At least given how the term is used in Internet discussions; one can be more broad.

Here's also a question of reflection for you: if you regularly debate people and people regularly miss what you're saying, are you actually any good at communicating your thoughts?
In case you haven't noticed, I nearly always know what the rest of you think
What do I think?
 

Silvanus

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It's not "for once". In case you haven't noticed, I nearly always know what the rest of you think
You have one of the absolute worst records for understanding what others' positions actually are. You often ascribe beliefs to people that they never expressed, and then ignore or disregard when they directly tell you otherwise, arrogantly and baselessly insistent that you know their mind better than they know their own position. It's genuinely quite funny that you think this, because you have such a supremely poor grasp of others' motivations and beliefs.
 
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The Rogue Wolf

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The vast majority of people on the planet would read this discussion and side with me. People who live outside the internet don't think its healthier to be sexualized earlier.
"The vast majority of people" would say that children shouldn't gradually be introduced to sexual topics (including things like, y'know, where babies come from)? You really are delusional.
 

tstorm823

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(emphasis mine) 5 people responded to your last post. I'd argue at most 2 people went to strawman. At least given how the term is used in Internet discussions; one can be more broad.
There have been quite a few times over the last few pages that people have aggressively put words in my mouth. Users like Absent tend to spend about 6 syllables in actual reply before moving onto totally unrelated tirades about the evils of right-wingers.
Here's also a question of reflection for you: if you regularly debate people and people regularly miss what you're saying, are you actually any good at communicating your thoughts?

What do I think?
I mean this in a good way: as far as knowing what people think, you don't count. You display a desire for truth that allows you to move where the evidence takes you, and since I don't know everything, I do not always know where that will take you. The willfully blind are much easier to predict.
insistent that you know their mind better than they know their own position.
I do know your mind better than you know your own position. Some day there will be something that breaks through to you, and then everything else will fall into place. For lil devils, it was when half the board said they wanted to abolish the police. For Saelune, it was everyone arguing that Europe is so much more left leaning than the US. There's gonna be an argument at some point where you finally notice you're just not at all in tune with "your side".
You really are delusional.
We disagree. That's fine. Our positions are on display, and I'm not going to try to change your mind otherwise at this moment. Time is all it will take for my argument to win out.
 

Gergar12

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Proving me right that there is no insurance against automation.


Most “progressive” governor everyone. Won’t even protect your trucking job that can be learned right out of high school via CDL. Fuck high school aged males amirite.

Oh and he hates immigrants and trans people.