Funny events in anti-woke world

Phoenixmgs

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I can't recall an instance of a Republican being right.
They've been right (or at least more right) than democrats quite a bit over the last few years.


Let's look at some numbers. The top 3 PBMs in America (CVS Health; OptimumRX, owned by UnitedHealth; and Express Scripts owned by CIGNA) are all owned by parents that also have an insurer. Those 3 PBMs control 80% of the market.

Yet the insurers that are associated with those PBMs account for only ~23 - 24% of the market. What does that tell us...? It tells us that most of the insurance plans that use those PBMs... do not use the insurer that is under the same parent company.



OK, so now you do want to treat the insurer and PBM as separate entities. Because the PBM doesn't make its money from premiums. So the only way this is true is if you're acknowledging that they're separate entities with separate income streams.



You were wholly believing that CEO when he was squawking about the insurers and PBMs being solely responsible for high prices.
Where's the source on that?

No, the insurer and PBM are under the same umbrella.

No, the CEO is right about the insane listing prices being the cause of the insurers/PBMs. I didn't disagree that the actual/real cost of ozempic is higher than it should be (at least in the US); once the insurers/PBMs do all their rebates and shit. And Novo's profit margin says that they make bank as well.
 

tstorm823

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No, you really don't.
I do.
I can't recall an instance of a Republican being right.
Because you ignore any information that doesn't help your arguments. Almost every Republican was saying Hunters laptop was real while you lot denied it, even when he himself said that it might be on television.
Fact remains: "nobody was around" is a commonplace circumstance in clothing shops. It simply is. You first swapped it for a different, exaggerated claim to undermine its credibility; then expressed simple incredulity that the circumstance would apply when expensive items are around. But you've not actually presented anything substantial. You've argued from incredulity and dishonesty.
You're not doing much to dispel the claim that you treat this as just a game. You're arguing as though someone is going to award you debate points.

Do you believe everything she accused him of? Do you stake your reputation on that claim?
 

Silvanus

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They've been right (or at least more right) than democrats quite a bit over the last few years.
Lol bollocks.

Where's the source on that?
Here's a source on 2022 market share. United Health at 15.3%; CVS at 5.8%; Cigna at 2.4%.

No, the insurer and PBM are under the same umbrella.
You just said that insurers only make their money from premiums. Yet the PBM directly pockets a portion of the rebate without passing the saving onto the insurer. The PBM's income does not come from premiums. It comes from spread pricing and the partial pocketing of rebates.
 
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Silvanus

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Because you ignore any information that doesn't help your arguments. Almost every Republican was saying Hunters laptop was real while you lot denied it, even when he himself said that it might be on television.
Because those same Republicans lied and misrepresented the contents and significance of the laptop. If you tell an insignificant truth in the course of telling a larger lie, I'm not going to treat the statement as honest.

You're not doing much to dispel the claim that you treat this as just a game. You're arguing as though someone is going to award you debate points.
I'm not really interested in dispelling whatever insults you want to hurl. It saves time and blood pressure to just ignore them.

Do you believe everything she accused him of? Do you stake your reputation on that claim?
My "reputation"? What the fuck are you talking about?

I believe it's likelier than not that he did what she said he did. It fits perfectly with his long established pattern of grotesque sexual abuse.
 

Silvanus

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That's not fair.

Trump signed the FIRST STEP Act. Trump has talked about wanting to end Daylight Savings Time. RFK has talked about wanting to ban things in food that are allowed in the US and banned in many other places for good reasons. MTG's “If we're going to dance, let's all dance in the sunlight" was also spot on (and it's utter bullshit that Congress exempted themselves from FOIA in the first place, probably specifically to keep that kind of thing from becoming public the moment anyone got curious).

Sure, there's a massive cesspool of awfulness to pick through, but they do occasionally have their stopped clock moments.
FIRST STEP looks to be a good program, though I don't know much about it so should probably do more research.

RFK has made good points about junk food and ultra-processed food in America. I do agree with him on those things. I wasn't really counting him because he's not a Republican.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Lol bollocks.



Here's a source on 2022 market share. United Health at 15.3%; CVS at 5.8%; Cigna at 2.4%.



You just said that insurers only make their money from premiums. Yet the PBM directly pockets a portion of the rebate without passing the saving onto the insurer. The PBM's income does not come from premiums. It comes from spread pricing and the partial pocketing of rebates.
It's true...

I was wanting the source on the PBM market share because even like all the independent Blue Cross Blue Shields own their own PBM as well.

Yes, but if their parent insurer pays them say $1,000 for XYZ drug and the PBM gets $800 back as a rebate, that money came from people's premiums that they paid to the insurance company.
 

tstorm823

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Because those same Republicans lied and misrepresented the contents and significance of the laptop. If you tell an insignificant truth in the course of telling a larger lie, I'm not going to treat the statement as honest.
What about the contents do you think they lied about?
My "reputation"? What the fuck are you talking about?
That is the conversation you inserted yourself into. Anyone who wants to use this case as their evidence of Trump's wrongdoing looks ridiculous.
I believe it's likelier than not that he did what she said he did. It fits perfectly with his long established pattern of grotesque sexual abuse.
You're just admitting this is a prejudiced judgment you're making. You have decided that based on your judgment of his character, you think it is likely whatever accusation is directed at him is true (or more importantly to you defensible). That's not what I'm looking for. Do her claims specifically seem likely to you? Don't tell me that you can imagine them being vaguely possible and then say it's probably true cause it's Trump, I want you to look at the case the way a jury is supposed to and consider the claims she's actually made.
 

Silvanus

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I was wanting the source on the PBM market share because even like all the independent Blue Cross Blue Shields own their own PBM as well.
Ah right, here.

Edit: oh, for what it's worth, Blue Cross Blue Shield separates PBM responsibilities among 5 different companies, all of which are third-party.

Yes, but if their parent insurer pays them say $1,000 for XYZ drug and the PBM gets $800 back as a rebate, that money came from people's premiums that they paid to the insurance company.
Only the portion that is passed back to the insurer counts against the premium.

In this scenario the rebate is 800$. Say the PBM passes 600$ to the insurer and pockets 200$. The insurer does not then adjust its premiums to accommodate a 200$ cost; they adjust their premium to accommodate a 400$ cost.
 
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Silvanus

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What about the contents do you think they lied about?
That it incriminates the family at large, and the President. You yourself tended to distance yourself from that stretch. Republican politicians, less so.

That is the conversation you inserted yourself into. Anyone who wants to use this case as their evidence of Trump's wrongdoing looks ridiculous.
Looks ridiculous to whom? I don't much care if I look ridiculous to zealots.

You're just admitting this is a prejudiced judgment you're making. You have decided that based on your judgment of his character, you think it is likely whatever accusation is directed at him is true (or more importantly to you defensible). That's not what I'm looking for. Do her claims specifically seem likely to you? Don't tell me that you can imagine them being vaguely possible and then say it's probably true cause it's Trump, I want you to look at the case the way a jury is supposed to and consider the claims she's actually made.
Buddy, a pattern of behaviour is both logically and legally relevant. We do not consider the likelihood of someone's culpability in a void of context.
 
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Trunkage

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He's being put into a high appointed office by a Republican administration, he's close enough.
The problem is the RFK is a conspiracy theorist

Some of his claims are totally valid and should be removed from food and medicine. Some of his claims have been fixed decades ago and he hasnt realised it... even though many people have point it put. Some of his claims is blaming the wrong thing. Some is blaming the wrong thing that is actually beneficial, Mao style.

I hope someone uses his gusto and focuses on things that are beneficial. Otherwise, he's going to make people sick while thinking he's helping them
 

tstorm823

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That it incriminates the family at large, and the President. You yourself tended to distance yourself from that stretch. Republican politicians, less so.
Republican politicians saw the contents of the laptop as a reasonable cause to further investigate the Biden family at large and Joe Biden. I'm not aware of Republicans claiming the laptop was proof of criminal actions by Joe Biden, and if anything, Republicans have been much more interested in the way the laptop was treated by the FBI and intelligence community than the contents themselves.

I would recommend you look for records of these Republicans lying about the content of the laptop, read their actual words, and see if it matches the impression of the events in your memory.
Looks ridiculous to whom? I don't much care if I look ridiculous to zealots.
What about people who would be your ally? If we're drawing lines between "sides" here, I'd say pretty clearly Phoenixmgs and I would be grouped together, and on the whole I would pick Phoenix's arguments over yours, but Pheonix also sometimes repeats claims that make me shake my head. I guarantee there are people on here who largely side with you that read some of the hills you choose to die on and cringe for you.
Buddy, a pattern of behaviour is both logically and legally relevant. We do not consider the likelihood of someone's culpability in a void of context.
A pattern of behavior can only support other claims and evidence, it cannot supersede them. If all evidence points to someone being the criminal, it doesn't matter if they were a saint their whole life. If the evidence points away from someone, it doesn't matter if they're already a murderer in the past. The accusation here is that Trump raped a woman in a public place where you'd expect witnesses, and there were none. Her story has them fight in a way you would expect at least one of them to sustain injuries, and there is no evidence that either of them did. The only evidence that they even interacted that day (a day we don't actually know when it was) is her testimony or that of people who heard from her later. She put her accusation in a book and announced it on the cover of New York Magazine, wearing allegedly the same outfit she was assaulted in, which she said she preserved all these years from that day, and there isn't a thread out of place.

Like, if a rape takes place and based on patterns of behavior you think it's one particular guy, you still need to find some evidence to convict. But we aren't even in that situation, there's no evidence at all that a crime even took place.
 

PsychedelicDiamond

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Meanwhile, in China, they are workaholics. Look what they made.

View attachment 12582

But no the Indian engineers are the problem. Sure Bernie sure.
Accusing him of "siding with MAGA" is just pointlessly negative framing. The fact that a lot of jobs, under their current conditions, can only be filled by giving them to people with lower expectations, need be all the way from the other end of the world, is one of the biggest problems of western economies.

Like, I do think that is a problem and an unsustainable method in the long term. Not because I want less immigrants but because I don't think treating them as a source of cheap labour instead of improving work conditions to make positions attractive to people who aren't desperate enough to do anything for any price is the way to go.
 
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Silvanus

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Republican politicians saw the contents of the laptop as a reasonable cause to further investigate the Biden family at large and Joe Biden. I'm not aware of Republicans claiming the laptop was proof of criminal actions by Joe Biden, and if anything, Republicans have been much more interested in the way the laptop was treated by the FBI and intelligence community than the contents themselves.

I would recommend you look for records of these Republicans lying about the content of the laptop, read their actual words, and see if it matches the impression of the events in your memory.
Trump: "With what came out today, it's even worse. All of the emails, the emails, the horrible emails. Of the kind of money you [Joe Biden] were raking in, you and your family".

Trump: "the Hunter Biden laptop from hell, which exposes the Biden family as criminals".

What about people who would be your ally? If we're drawing lines between "sides" here, I'd say pretty clearly Phoenixmgs and I would be grouped together, and on the whole I would pick Phoenix's arguments over yours, but Pheonix also sometimes repeats claims that make me shake my head. I guarantee there are people on here who largely side with you that read some of the hills you choose to die on and cringe for you.
If anyone I often agree with takes particular exception to something I've said in this thread, I encourage them to speak up.

A pattern of behavior can only support other claims and evidence, it cannot supersede them. If all evidence points to someone being the criminal, it doesn't matter if they were a saint their whole life. If the evidence points away from someone, it doesn't matter if they're already a murderer in the past. The accusation here is that Trump raped a woman in a public place where you'd expect witnesses, and there were none. Her story has them fight in a way you would expect at least one of them to sustain injuries, and there is no evidence that either of them did. The only evidence that they even interacted that day (a day we don't actually know when it was) is her testimony or that of people who heard from her later. She put her accusation in a book and announced it on the cover of New York Magazine, wearing allegedly the same outfit she was assaulted in, which she said she preserved all these years from that day, and there isn't a thread out of place.

Like, if a rape takes place and based on patterns of behavior you think it's one particular guy, you still need to find some evidence to convict. But we aren't even in that situation, there's no evidence at all that a crime even took place.
Obviously the pattern of behaviour isn't the sole piece. I merely said it was relevant, after you insinuated it wasn't.

Male DNA on her dress (and Trump waiting until after the deadline passed to provide a comparison sample). Testimony from 2 friends that Carroll described the incident at the time, long before the suit. And of course, Trump being on a bloody recording boasting of sexual assault.
 
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The Rogue Wolf

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tstorm823

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Male DNA on her dress (and Trump waiting until after the deadline passed to provide a comparison sample). Testimony from 2 friends that Carroll described the incident at the time, long before the suit. And of course, Trump being on a bloody recording boasting of sexual assault.
Male skin cells 25 years later after she, at minimum, wore it for a photo shoot, which Carrolls legal team provided incomplete records of and then dropped the request, and then hearsay of her personal claims, and then something that didn't happen. Trump wasn't recorded boasting about sexual assault. "They let you" explicitly describes consensual activities. You may doubt that consent was given (I doubt he was grabbing them in the first place personally), but the brag was specifically about the things he was allowed by women to do.

So unless you think male skin on a dress is specifically indicative of sexual assault and specifically by Trump, we are once again at the only evidence being her word.
 

Silvanus

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Male skin cells 25 years later after she, at minimum, wore it for a photo shoot, which Carrolls legal team provided incomplete records of and then dropped the request [...]
Did they provide "Incomplete records", or did they merely not comply with the prosecution's pointless condition that the full lab report be turned over to them?

Quick reminder that cells of any kind would disprove Trump's claim that he never even met her, and if he's lying about that, it already looks shady.

And as far as I know, the request was only 'dropped' after discovery had concluded. After they'd been requesting it from Trump (to no avail) for three years.

, and then hearsay of her personal claims
They'd be 'hearsay of her personal claims' if we were using them to prove Carroll's allegations themselves. I'm not: the salient point is that they heard it many years before the article or the lawsuit. On that point, they're direct testimony.

, and then something that didn't happen. Trump wasn't recorded boasting about sexual assault. "They let you" explicitly describes consensual activities. You may doubt that consent was given (I doubt he was grabbing them in the first place personally), but the brag was specifically about the things he was allowed by women to do.
This framing is tremendously weak.

"She was married. I moved on her very heavily [...] I moved on her like a *****".

"I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. Don't even wait".

None of this sounds very respectful or as if he's requesting consent, now, does it? He's essentially saying that they "let" him do it after he's already forcefully started doing it. Sexual abuse survivors often describe this as "freezing".