Funny events in anti-woke world

Satinavian

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Ah, doing that "basing your entire argument on a single frame" thing, are we?
There are a lot of pictures that somehow look wrong. I wouldn't even say "too muscular", just kind of weird. Maybe the animation quality is just not that good or consistent.

Sure, the concept art looks better, but that is concept art.


Now I also don't know how common which look is. I've not seen it and people combing the animation for particularly bad/good examples might not be very representative.
But i am also not really interested in watching it.
 

Chimpzy

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There are a lot of pictures that somehow look wrong. I wouldn't even say "too muscular", just kind of weird. Maybe the animation quality is just not that good or consistent.

Sure, the concept art looks better, but that is concept art.


Now I also don't know how common which look is. I've not seen it and people combing the animation for particularly bad/good examples might not be very representative.
But i am also not really interested in watching it.
Sure, she does look off model in that frame. But that is a different argument than the one that Mac girl made.
 

CriticalGaming

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Ah, doing that "basing your entire argument on a single frame" thing, are we?



I mean, I'd smash. But let's be honest tho, in the near impossible event a woman like Lara Croft would be down for that, she'd be doing the smashing. Maybe also literally.

Then again, how much of an argument can you expect from someone who got hospitalized for severe dehydration because she forgot to drink water.
Lara's new design sucks, not only because it lacks femininity but also because it looks like lazy cheap character design that is inconsistent through out.

Lara's gay now by the way.
 

thebobmaster

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Lara's new design sucks, not only because it lacks femininity but also because it looks like lazy cheap character design that is inconsistent through out.

Lara's gay now by the way.
She was already meant to be at least bi in the 2013 reboot, but the producers had Rhianna Pratchett cut out the explicit text with Sam. I still got implications, but nothing was explicit as Pratchett had planned on.
 

CriticalGaming

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She was already meant to be at least bi in the 2013 reboot, but the producers had Rhianna Pratchett cut out the explicit text with Sam. I still got implications, but nothing was explicit as Pratchett had planned on.
Instead they removed her sexuality entirely, because she had zero interest in anyone in that series. Which, to be honest, I'm perfectly fine with. I'd rather no sexuality in a game where it doesn't have any relevance to the story or characters, versus pigeon-holed LBGT insertion for the sake of it.
 

thebobmaster

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Instead they removed her sexuality entirely, because she had zero interest in anyone in that series. Which, to be honest, I'm perfectly fine with. I'd rather no sexuality in a game where it doesn't have any relevance to the story or characters, versus pigeon-holed LBGT insertion for the sake of it.
She was flirting and went so far as to kiss Alex in the first game.
 

Casual Shinji

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Does anyone care about Lara Croft at all anymore? This character was never anything more than a pin-up with guns akimbo and maybe sunglasses. Along with Duke Nukem she plummeted into complete irrelevance the moment western game characters with any sort of personality popped up. You could throw a stone in any direction and hit a more interesting hot lady to put in an action-adventure game.
 

Avnger

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Lara's new design sucks, not only because it lacks femininity but also because it looks like lazy cheap character design that is inconsistent through out.

Lara's gay now by the way.
Please explain exactly how the character in question "lacks femininity"? I'd love details for the claim.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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I'm 3 episodes in, and a 5/10 is pretty accurate. It's not a good show.

My main problem is that all of the characters are just kind of annoying. Lara keeps flip flopping between "I'm a strong independent woman who don't need no man" while she kung fu fights 5 guys to "I have daddy issues and violence is scary, won't someone please hold me" and these personality shifts are happening every 5 minutes, sometimes in a single scene.

The animation is also kind of mediocre. The characters are constantly drawn off model, especially in scenes with a lot of fast movement and action. Lara is constantly being drawn extra buff, or more skinny, or sometimes weirdly stretched. This show is giving Goku from DBZ a run for his money in terms of model inaccuracy.

I also think that the story suffers from being locked into the canon of the Crystal Dynamics Tomb Raider series. It seems to take place directly after the first game and there's just a lot of inconsistency with Lara's personality between the first 2 games, and Lara's personality in this series that seems to fall in between them. I really think I would have preferred if this was a stand alone show with a new interpretation of the character.
 

thebobmaster

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Does anyone care about Lara Croft at all anymore? This character was never anything more than a pin-up with guns akimbo and maybe sunglasses. Along with Duke Nukem she plummeted into complete irrelevance the moment western game characters with any sort of personality popped up. You could throw a stone in any direction and hit a more interesting hot lady to put in an action-adventure game.
You'd be surprised. According to the statistics I've come across, the I-III remaster has already earned $3.3 million in gross revenue on just Steam. Nostalgia may play a fair bit into it, but that's still nothing to sneer at.

 

Chimpzy

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Lara's new design sucks, not only because it lacks femininity but also because it looks like lazy cheap character design that is inconsistent through out.
I kinda agree, tho for different reasons. It's reboot Lara, which would be fine if it weren't for no braid. The braid is imo essential for good Lara.

As for inconsistent, yes, lots of scenes with off-model characters. Sloppy animation in general. I find that affects a lot of Netflix' anime output. No budget, probably.
 
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CriticalGaming

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I kinda agree, tho for different reasons. It's reboot Lara, which would be fine if it weren't for no braid. The braid is imo essential for good Lara.

As for inconsistent, yes, lots of scenes with off-model characters. Sloppy animation in general. I find that affects a lot of Netflix' anime output. No budget, probably.
And good Lara is very much a badass woman. Feminine yet strong, capable, and badass. Something these companies keep trying to erase, you might as well call this version Larry Croft instead. Because from what empowerment does this showcase for a badass woman in removing as much of her feminine design as possible.

This strictly about what makes a good character design, and it is the same problem that Concord's characters had. You cannot have amorphous blobs as characters because people don't connect with genderless/sexless undefinable entities. Especially when you combine them with vapid personalities that cannot even maintain consistency between episodes.

The way this show is written Lara might as a well be a complete different person in each episode because she constantly flipflops between completely different personality types. This alone is proof that the writers on the show have no clue what the fuck they are doing.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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And good Lara is very much a badass woman. Feminine yet strong, capable, and badass. Something these companies keep trying to erase, you might as well call this version Larry Croft instead. Because from what empowerment does this showcase for a badass woman in removing as much of her feminine design as possible.

This strictly about what makes a good character design, and it is the same problem that Concord's characters had. You cannot have amorphous blobs as characters because people don't connect with genderless/sexless undefinable entities. Especially when you combine them with vapid personalities that cannot even maintain consistency between episodes.

The way this show is written Lara might as a well be a complete different person in each episode because she constantly flipflops between completely different personality types. This alone is proof that the writers on the show have no clue what the fuck they are doing.
I don't hate the new Lara Croft design, and I think that comparing her design to the designs of the Concord characters is a poor comparison.

The old Lara Croft design was just "rule of cool." There was nothing practical about it. The developers didn't think about how much it would suck to wear short shorts in a jungle or that the tiny backpack she wears would be practically useless for carrying anything bigger than a water bottle, or how dual wielding pistols is actually horribly inaccurate. Hell in Tomb Raider 2 the Tibet outfit has her wearing a bulky winter jacket in the snow, but still with short shorts. That's how most of the old video game and comic book characters used to be designed. It didn't matter if a design made practical sense so long as people thought it looked cool.

The thing is, as graphics progress and become more realistic things that are impractical start to stand out way more. I mean, there's a reason that in the Marvel movies the best very of Captain America's outfit is the realistically tactical looking one from the first movie, because skin tight spandex just doesn't look right on a realistically proportioned human on screen.

The modern redesign is much more practical and realistic. It takes into account how Lara Croft would actually be moving around. What muscle groups would be more developed based on her rock climbing background, etc. I actually really like the 2012 redesign that Crystal Dynamics did. I don't think the show's design is as good (I find it a bit bland), but it's on the practical and realistic end. Like I said, the reason that Lara Croft isn't likeable in this show isn't her visual design, it's her personality.

I think the biggest problem right now is artists trying really hard to meld together the original Lara Croft design and the newer more realistic one, and it just doesn't work very well. We went from a realistic looking Lara Croft wearing a realistic looking outfit for an adventurer to a realistic looking Lara Croft wearing the original iconic but impractical outfit, and this is a compromise that doesn't really make anyone happy.

The reason that Concord's character designs were bad wasn't because they were "sexless" or "gender-less" as you claim. It's because they were originally designed in a non-realistic style (the concept being Overwatch meets Guardians of the Galaxy) and then adapted to a realistic one. The designs were meant to be seen in cartoony retro futurism, and when they pivoted to a realistic style it completely fucked the designs. Look at some of the original concept art for the game compared to the final in game models. The original concept art actually looks good.
 
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CriticalGaming

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how dual wielding pistols is actually horribly inaccurate
Tracer from Overwatch does it.


The old Lara Croft design was just "rule of cool."
Of course, but that is exactly what works for video games and fantasy. It's better to be "cool" than realistic and boring. You think Masterchief's armor is practical to run around in? Or any number of fantasy armor sets from Final Fantasy or MMO's?

If you want something realistic then your setting needs to be that, but Lara Croft regularly deals with artifacts and magic powers. So realism is not a justifiable stance to take on her character design. Not at the cost of making her interesting and iconic.


I think the biggest problem right now is artists trying really hard to meld together the original Lara Croft design and the newer more realistic one, and it just doesn't work very well. We went from a realistic looking Lara Croft wearing a realistic looking outfit for an adventurer to a realistic looking Lara Croft wearing the original iconic but impractical outfit, and this is a compromise that doesn't really make anyone happy.
Well the reason why her iconic outfit was...iconic. Was because she had a great set of tits on her. And revealing outfits are revealing. But in the modern era you cannot have a sexy character (at least not from western made media), but what's even worse is that they are also trying to delete the feminine out of the characters as well, making them as androgenous as possible.

Take a look at 2013 Lara, she is very much a girly character. Soft face, nice bust without being comically crazy, slender waist with wider hips, a woman.

Then look at whatever the fuck the new design is supposed to be. Strong jawline, masculine chin, zero definition for her body whatsoever except when they want her to be buff for whatever reason. And even in the "realistic but iconic outfit, you have a crazy jawline, very little shape to her body, bust way underdone and flattened. It's like they are trying to appeal to those that think Lara is an iconic character without letting her be that iconic character.

You can see this change in so many places. Mary Jane from 2018's Spider-man to 2023's Spider-man 2, completely different fucking thing. Abby from THLOU2, Most of the cast of Mortal Kombat.

There is an argument to be said about hyper-oversexualization, fine I'm with you there. But we've gone so far in the other direction that these women not only barely look like women anymore, but they don't even act like women anymore as these writers constantly try to force every female character into being better men than the men in whatever show/game/whatever. It's really getting ridiculous. The pendulum has swung way to far, and viewer/player counts show this. Nobody likes these new design choices or this storytelling. It's garbage.

The reason that Concord's character designs were bad wasn't because they were "sexless" or "gender-less" as you claim.
They were boring, bland, and purposefully as unidentifiable as possible. that Tumblr post you linked has maybe interesting ideas but there is no evidence that any of that art was considered for the game or if it even came from artists on the game.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Tracer from Overwatch does it.
And...? I'm not sure how that's in any way relevant. Overwatch is cartoony, not realistic so "rule of cool" applies to all of the characters, and Tracer's shooting is still horribly inaccurate you basically have to barrel stuff the enemy to kill them.

Of course, but that is exactly what works for video games and fantasy. It's better to be "cool" than realistic and boring. You think Masterchief's armor is practical to run around in? Or any number of fantasy armor sets from Final Fantasy or MMO's?
Master Chief's armor is practical in the setting it's in. Armor sets from Final Fantasy and other MMOs are magical and exist in worlds that operate differently from our own so practicality doesn't apply.

If you want something realistic then your setting needs to be that, but Lara Croft regularly deals with artifacts and magic powers. So realism is not a justifiable stance to take on her character design. Not at the cost of making her interesting and iconic.
Lara Croft deals with magical artifacts, she is not magical herself. Realism applies to her. The fact that there might be a magical artifact in the world containing an evil spirit doesn't mean that she isn't going to be cold wearing shorts in the snowy mountain tops of Tibet. The Tomb Raider games are also set in "the real world" not some fantasy world where physics are different. Your argument is silly.

Well the reason why her iconic outfit was...iconic. Was because she had a great set of tits on her. And revealing outfits are revealing. But in the modern era you cannot have a sexy character (at least not from western made media), but what's even worse is that they are also trying to delete the feminine out of the characters as well, making them as androgenous as possible.
Yeah, just look at the output of Blizzard, or Riot, or Larian, or CD Projekt, not a single sexy character in sight! The west should be ashamed. Nothing but uggos as far as the eye can see. /s

Alyx Vance was one of the best received female characters in video games when she was introduced in Half-Life 2, but I swear if Valve introduced her today people would claim her design is man-ish and be posting AI pictures where her boobs are the size of her head to "fix" her design.

Take a look at 2013 Lara, she is very much a girly character. Soft face, nice bust without being comically crazy, slender waist with wider hips, a woman.

Then look at whatever the fuck the new design is supposed to be. Strong jawline, masculine chin, zero definition for her body whatsoever except when they want her to be buff for whatever reason. And even in the "realistic but iconic outfit, you have a crazy jawline, very little shape to her body, bust way underdone and flattened. It's like they are trying to appeal to those that think Lara is an iconic character without letting her be that iconic character.
Bro Lara's chest size in the 2013 reboot looks to be the same size as her chest size in the upcoming game, and her waist is more defined in the new design.

As far as the TV show design goes, she's clearly wearing a compression shirt. It's basically like a sports bra in shirt form, which is a very normal thing for women to wear when doing something athletic like rock climbing or running. I hate to break it to you, but running around with huge swinging titters bouncing all over the place isn't very useful to someone rock climbing or fighting.

You can see this change in so many places. Mary Jane from 2018's Spider-man to 2023's Spider-man 2, completely different fucking thing. Abby from THLOU2, Most of the cast of Mortal Kombat.
The cast of Mortal Kombat looks fine, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Abby from TLOU2 wasnt' designed to be sexy and no one is trying to convince you that you need to find her attractive.

People keep complaining about MJ from Spider-man 2 as an example that the game is woke because they made an ugly character model, and yet fail to talk about Black Cat being in the game and looking great. Like yeah, MJ was an unfortunate design, but I frankly don't think Peter or Harry look very good either. The only main character who didn't get hit with an ugly stick is Miles. That's not a vendetta against good looking women, their character artists generally didn't do very well with most of the characters' faces, and that goes back to Spider-Man PS4 as well.

There is an argument to be said about hyper-oversexualization, fine I'm with you there. But we've gone so far in the other direction that these women not only barely look like women anymore, but they don't even act like women anymore as these writers constantly try to force every female character into being better men than the men in whatever show/game/whatever. It's really getting ridiculous. The pendulum has swung way to far, and viewer/player counts show this. Nobody likes these new design choices or this storytelling. It's garbage.
Is this what you want?

1729215898569.png

People keep on demanding better and more realistic high fidelity graphics, but at the same time want all of their characters to look like anime fuck dolls?

Certain things look better in a more cartoony style, and certain things look better in a more realistic style. If the game is calling for realistic visuals and then you put in characters with the proportions of Jessica Rabbit it looks fucking weird. On the other than if you're going for a cartoony aesthetic and you put in characters that look too realistic they look boring.

Both things have a time and place. The more people demand realistic graphics the more the characters have to look like realistic people or they start to look fucking weird.

They were boring, bland, and purposefully as unidentifiable as possible. that Tumblr post you linked has maybe interesting ideas but there is no evidence that any of that art was considered for the game or if it even came from artists on the game.
Well I'd like to provide you an official source for the concept art but any official sources have basically been scrubbed from the internet by Sony to try and get people to forget this disaster happened.
 
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thebobmaster

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You're forgetting one crucial thing. Women in videogames only exist for men to fap to. If women aren't sexy, what's the point of them?
 

Casual Shinji

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The cast of Mortal Kombat looks fine, I have no idea what you're talking about.
There's something odd going on with those faces, but that's what we used to attribute to the uncanny valley before some people started to get paranoid about losing hot women.

Can anyone point me to examples of when ladies in western games supposedly DIDN'T "look ugly on purpose"?