Funny Events of the "Woke" world

Gergar12

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I personally don’t think our election warrants one. Like it’s important to us, but by and large we’re a junior player in world politics so there’s very little meat for an international audience to chew on about the whole affair.
I disagree Australia has been part of the fueling of the climate emergency, with Biden in the US, Boris in the UK, Trudeau in Canada, and this guy in Australia plus New Zealand always being on the right side of climate change we can finally deal with it on an Anglo-united front plus you have a majority of the EU.

It means the west, and its populace is getting serious about climate change which is good.
 

Trunkage

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Um, thanks? Not sure how this is "woke" per se. Labor certainly isn't woke. The Greens are a bit, but thankfully tend to remain focus on their core issues (the environment).

Anyway, I'm glad that Labor's in, mainly on the premise that they're a better fit to deal with the climate crisis than the COALition. Not perfect, but I'll take what I can get.
Compared to the US, ScoMo is woke

Probably one of the wokest thing Australian Labour has done is gender quotas (or whatever its called). While not 50/50, and not a perfect system, I can now see what happened when you don't have quotas. You get a whole gender turn against you because you keep picking males over quality candidates
 

Trunkage

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I disagree Australia has been part of the fueling of the climate emergency, with Biden in the US, Boris in the UK, Trudeau in Canada, and this guy in Australia plus New Zealand always being on the right side of climate change we can finally deal with it on an Anglo-united front plus you have a majority of the EU.

It means the west, and its populace is getting serious about climate change which is good.
Yeah, we kept feeding coal to China and India, choking up their cities
 

Thaluikhain

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That is an absolute lie. Neither Scott Morrison or Anthony Albanese have any personality whatsoever.
I disagree. While Albo doesn't, that was why he won, because Scomo does and it is appalling.

Compared to the US, ScoMo is woke
Disagree there. Scomo just was more constrained by a populace somewhat less welcoming of absurd evil.
 
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Trunkage

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I disagree. While Albo doesn't, that was why he won, because Scomo does and it is appalling.
TBH, liked him better than Howard
But for me, that is saying very little
Disagree there. Scomo just was more constrained by a populace somewhat less welcoming of absurd evil.
You may be correct

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/aust...sedgntp&cvid=a8cf2844a4c049eda388acba874d9b42

Here's an section

Herald Sun columnist and Outsiders host, Rita Panahi, was quick to accuse Albanese of causing division because the first thing he said in his victory speech was that Labor will commit “in full” to the Uluru Statement from the Heart.

Panahi said: “It wasn’t about Australia on the international stage. The very first thing [Labor] said was concerned with race, identity politics, division, and this is what it’s going to be like for the next three years. So strap yourself in. It’s going to be an interesting period.”
They're doing the Trump 'if you dare talk about race, its you destroying society' schtick.
I really hope you are right. But I doubt it if Dutton gets the leadership
 

Hawki

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Compared to the US, ScoMo is woke
Not really. When has ScoMo, or the Liberals as a whole, done or said anything that could be considered "woke?"

That the Liberals aren't as crazy as the Republicans doesn't make them "woke" or anything like that.

Probably one of the wokest thing Australian Labour has done is gender quotas (or whatever its called). While not 50/50, and not a perfect system, I can now see what happened when you don't have quotas. You get a whole gender turn against you because you keep picking males over quality candidates
Well, there's an argument to be made there, but if you want to look at why the Liberals were just thrashed, the gender issue could be part of it, but "part" is the key word. I mean, Labor won, but it still got less than 33% of the vote. And to be anti-woke for a bit, can't say I'm fond of gender quotas, period. And I'm saying this as someone whose field is 90% female.

They're doing the Trump 'if you dare talk about race, its you destroying society' schtick.
I really hope you are right. But I doubt it if Dutton gets the leadership
Reads page...

Ah, sweet conservative tears. :p

Actually, in all fairness, I'm not sure what case one could make that the Liberals should move further to the right, because if Australians wanted a right-wing party, then why did One Nation and the UAP do so poorly? If anything, the election shows a significant move to the left, given that not only did Labor win, but the Greens had their best election results ever.
 

Chimpzy

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Just one more example of how there are absolutely zero gender diversity issues in the tech world. Checkmate SJWs.
Nah, everyone knows there's only two genders: men and also men, but 15% smaller. Or, you know, they're at least in the top 5 of genders.

Kinda intended to post this in anti-woke tho. Oopsie. Then again, does it matter, cuz anything to do with crypto is not so much woke or anti-woke as just plain stupid.
 
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Terminal Blue

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That's why. I wouldn't say it "offends" me, but it sure as hell irritates me, in part for the reasons the dev described.
I'm still not really seeing the reasons though.

Like, most of your complaints seem to be pointing out that the metrics being used are non-comprehensive and arbitrary and.. yeah. I don't think that's a problem. All metrics are arbitrary.

The second complaint seems to be that people can do this anyway and.. can they?

At the end of the day, if I was looking at this charitably, it just seems like a tool for getting people to think about the assumptions they make when designing characters. It's such a complete non-issue that I struggle to see why anyone would care one way or another, if not for the one thing that actually matters.

This is the company where a woman killed herself after naked photos of her were shared by male colleagues, which consistently pays women less than men for the same work, where a large proportion of staff have come out to report being harassed, groped and propositioned, often by men in positions of seniority, where one senior developer routinely had to physically pulled off women by his own supervisors (who nonetheless did not follow this up) at company events, and which handled these allegations so atrociously it lead to an organized walkout.

Beyond being a shallow and deeply cynical attempt by Blizzard to cover up the fact that they have been exposed as a company full of barely-socialized man-children, the problem with this tool is that ultimately its pretty meaningless. You can put characters in your media who are female, or gay, or neurodivergent, but you cannot create media which includes people who fall into those groups unless you actually understand them. To actually create diverse media, you need diverse creators who can draw on their own experiences or that of people they know and are close to, and Blizzard can't do that because they don't hire diverse people and they've driven any they did hire out by being a company full of abusive shitheads.

Blizzard aren't creating diverse characters. They make the characters they would make anyway and then make social media marketing tweets about how that character is actually pansexual or epileptic or from Burundi. Wow! Breaking new ground here! The sad fact is that Blizzard doesn't make games with sophisticated enough writing that any of this is ever going to matter, it's just a sad dance to whip up online hype from fanboys looking for an excuse to like the thing they already like without needing to think too hard about the conditions under which it was produced.

There is no tool or technique or system which is going to let a bunch of homogenous guys (who didn't have the self awareness to realise what a stable of horseshit they were working at) create characters who are actually going to matter or mean anything to a diverse audience. The audience isn't that dumb.
 

Silvanus

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I'm still not really seeing the reasons though.

Like, most of your complaints seem to be pointing out that the metrics being used are non-comprehensive and arbitrary and.. yeah. I don't think that's a problem. All metrics are arbitrary.
Oh, c'mon, there are degrees of arbitrary. And giving someone a 5/10 for "ethnicity" is waaaaaay up the arbitrary scale.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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...the Democrats often discussed wishes to drag people out of their homes? And now that the Dems are in charge, cops like the Dems now?

What trucker pirate radio station did you hear that from?
The one the people were listening to when they set up a guillotine outside Bezo's house and other activist groups calling for people to give up their homes to others?
 

Terminal Blue

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Oh, c'mon, there are degrees of arbitrary. And giving someone a 5/10 for "ethnicity" is waaaaaay up the arbitrary scale.
I mean, that really depends on the point. If the point is to reward the inclusion of ethnic groups that are underrepresented in media, then it's totally reasonable to have a single metric for ethnicity. There is the question of how we quantify ethnicity in the first place, but it would be far from impossible to come up with a reasonable way to do that.

Don't get me wrong, I think this is extremely silly and a good example of why STEM fields don't necessarily demonstrate intelligence, but it's no more silly than giving video games numerical review scores. There is no reason why you wouldn't be able to do it in a way that is hypothetically useful for something.

Whether it's useful for anything that actually matters.. probably not. It's really just kind of inconsequential and doesn't seem particularly worth caring about other than the actually important fact that Activision Blizzard is a dumpster fire made of shit and all they're really doing is signposting how out of touch they are from the experiences of anyone they're claiming to "include".
 

Silvanus

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I mean, that really depends on the point. If the point is to reward the inclusion of ethnic groups that are underrepresented in media, then it's totally reasonable to have a single metric for ethnicity. There is the question of how we quantify ethnicity in the first place, but it would be far from impossible to come up with a reasonable way to do that.
...I really can't think of one that doesn't open a gigantic can of worms and end up being more denigrating.

The nature of a review score is that you're assigning a value judgement: better/worse. It's not objectionable to say you find OOT "better" than MM. But to say an ethnicity is better or worse? That gets pretty damn objectionable.
 
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Terminal Blue

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...I really can't think of one that doesn't open a gigantic can of worms and end up being more denigrating.
I mean, you could take a list video games, tally up all the characters in them by ethnicity and have a point system based on how often characters of particular ethnicities appear.

To be fair, I don't think that's what they did, and even if they did do that it would still be dumb and meaningless, but hey, that's quantitative research for you.
 

Silvanus

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I mean, you could take a list of top-selling video games this year, tally up all the characters in them by ethnicity and have a point system based on how often characters of particular ethnicity appear.

To be fair, I don't think that's what they did, and even if they did do that it would still be dumb and meaningless, but hey, that's quantitative research for you.
K, then you've solved the first issue of how the values are assigned... then we've got the questions of 1) prominence and 2) quality.

Do only protags count? Background characters? How many background characters constitute a protag? Depending on the answer to that, you could have one game with an expansive background cast, downgrading the "rank" for entire demographics for the year. City of dwarves in a WoW expansion --> suddenly 'body type' loses its value as a characteristic for the industry that year? Wut?

And quality! A prominent character is (say) gay... but it's a Swery65 game, so the depiction is really weird and stereotypical. Oh well! That depiction has downgraded the likelihood you'll get a good one, cos they're not worth as much any more.

The solution ain't assigning numbers. It's actually hiring diverse writers and putting thought into it. They've tried to brute-force it without actually changing anything.
 
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Trunkage

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The one the people were listening to when they set up a guillotine outside Bezo's house and other activist groups calling for people to give up their homes to others?
If you destroy your own country just for a few extra bucks, don't be surprised when people get angry