Just to clarify, how many people actually read the article and saw the bit where he said that Valve doesn't do this anymore? Because I don't think most people did that.
Gabe Newell Speaks On Recent VAC Controversy
- Thread starter Steven Bogos
- Start date
Erm... back up a sec. Valve hasn't earned your trust? The only company on earth to do DRM well and with an obvious intent *not* to fuck over customers in the process? Working over the years on improving various aspects of their distribution service (offline mode, the still-in-beta library sharing system, recently game tagging) to show that they're actually committed, in word and in reality, to the benefit of their customers? What would convince you that Valve is trustworthy, a hooker that comes over nightly? A free car? Shit, as far as game developers go, they're the least "evil" by far. Microsoft, EA, ubisoft and nintendo have been falling over themselves doing stupid shit that hurts customers, often for obviously malicious reasons (or in nintendo's case, just general incompetence). Valve thinks pretty far ahead, and they "listen to the community" for feedback.Tanis said:
If you've played literally any of Valve's games with developer commentary, you'd know they playtest almost to a fault - player feedback is used heavily, even while the game is being made. Community feedback is similarly used heavily for aspects of their services that affect the community. This isn't Origin, the "oh we want to copy Steam but do so for nefarious profit-mongering purposes and totally miss the point and never offer any good deals ever" DRM service. This isn't Microsoft putting nanny-cams on your consoles and attempting to require daily internet check-ins to be able to play offline games.
This is fucking Valve tweaking the security feature of their online multiplayer service. One that has performed amazingly well across a *wide range of games* keeping hackers, cheaters and botters to a minimum (or at least, far fewer than there would otherwise be) to keep online play fun for as many players as possible. If you seriously read his explanation about the third party crack programs being hardcoded to phone home for approval and only think "VALVE WANTS TO LOOK AT MY PORN!!!1111!!111111" then there's no real point in a conversation, cos you have no clue about the history of this company and would not trust them even if Jesus himself was their CEO.
Yup The amount of emotional knee-jerk reactions on this thread is truly astounding.Crimsonmonkeywar said:
It's like everyone had an opinion on the subject before they even read the damn article.
Personally I couldn't care less because I have nothing in my history worth hiding. No dodgy porn sites, no anti government sites, no cheating sites.
And it also doesn't effect me or my computer in any noticeable way. What do people think Valve will do? Go on a mass Fraping? (Facebook raping, ie post inappropriate messages on someones else's Facebook account).
But I can see why people might get a little pissed off with this. Folks can be really protective when it comes to privacy, and often with very good reason. And what reason do they have to trust Valve like this? Besides the fact that as far as we know Valve hasn't done anything bad thus far.
And it also doesn't effect me or my computer in any noticeable way. What do people think Valve will do? Go on a mass Fraping? (Facebook raping, ie post inappropriate messages on someones else's Facebook account).
But I can see why people might get a little pissed off with this. Folks can be really protective when it comes to privacy, and often with very good reason. And what reason do they have to trust Valve like this? Besides the fact that as far as we know Valve hasn't done anything bad thus far.
What a load of horseshit.BloodRed Pixel said:
Not as bad as the argument that any kind of restrictive and annoying DRM is justified by the people who pirate games,
but it falls into the same category.
You said it yourself, it is a relatively small number of individuals.
i actually believe this Explanation to a point, i have seen Cheat Sites Asking for money to use there Stuff a few Times rummaging around for Mods.
the problem is the moment you ask for trust, is in fact the Time When some folks will stop Trusting you, though the fact he told Why the Code was there is also a telling fact of him trusting Us, you Really dont wanna tell people how your Anti-cheat works, cause then people will Do there Best to disable it- in some cases just to see if they can, in other cases to Stat Pad or Profit from it in some ways.
now some of the more advanced Cheat producers may have Bypassed it within days or hours, but its not as Easy to Remove it from a System, because it could Catch someone less knowledgeable or they could Exploit it Directly if they knew it was No longer There/ and or knew that valve Couldent use it anymore.
its gonna be a Mess Either Way and there will be some who will jump on valve for this
this was rather much longer then i intended, but i hope everyone has a good day
the problem is the moment you ask for trust, is in fact the Time When some folks will stop Trusting you, though the fact he told Why the Code was there is also a telling fact of him trusting Us, you Really dont wanna tell people how your Anti-cheat works, cause then people will Do there Best to disable it- in some cases just to see if they can, in other cases to Stat Pad or Profit from it in some ways.
now some of the more advanced Cheat producers may have Bypassed it within days or hours, but its not as Easy to Remove it from a System, because it could Catch someone less knowledgeable or they could Exploit it Directly if they knew it was No longer There/ and or knew that valve Couldent use it anymore.
its gonna be a Mess Either Way and there will be some who will jump on valve for this
this was rather much longer then i intended, but i hope everyone has a good day
"We're only doing this to help"
You shouldn't trust it when the government says it, you sure shouldn't trust it when a corporation says it. Now, that's not to say I can demonstrate or prove anything said in the article isn't factual, and that may very well be truthful in all that valve does(or at the least what they intended, but we all know where good intentions can lead...). It's just you sure as hell shouldn't take these kind of statements without examination and critique
You shouldn't trust it when the government says it, you sure shouldn't trust it when a corporation says it. Now, that's not to say I can demonstrate or prove anything said in the article isn't factual, and that may very well be truthful in all that valve does(or at the least what they intended, but we all know where good intentions can lead...). It's just you sure as hell shouldn't take these kind of statements without examination and critique
This thread Jesus the amount of bullshit in here. CEO of a billion dollar company goes online himself to answer questions over fears about the way VAC works, and instead of people saying fair play thanks for explaining it etc, they decide to shit all over it.
Whilst not the most popular answer, if your unhappy with the way steam works, don't use it, problem solved.
Whilst not the most popular answer, if your unhappy with the way steam works, don't use it, problem solved.
Understandable that Valve tries fighting cheaters. Although, wouldn't cheat DRM bypass a browser anyway, so someone who downloaded the cheat from a separate PC or dual-booted would be able to go undetected if they used browser history. Valves methods have to be monitoring you network activity for those key IPs. I'd trust Valve more that most companies, but anyone in Valve who thinks they could get away with snooping on someone could hijack VAC for their own nefarious deeds. I assume everyone in Valve are smart enough to realize that there's almost no chance even for the best computer wiz in the world to get away with it.
There are plenty of people picking apart every device they buy and code they download that nothing remains secret. That's why Valve and other developers are in a cat and mouse game with cheaters, and everyone knows Valve is doing something to their PCs. Sony and Ninty are at it with hackers for "homebrewing". And major retailers and banks are fighting credit card hackers and ID thieves. No company cares how much Asian bikini girl pics I've looked at today. I just watch out in case some virus installs a key logger or something no matter what I'm doing online. (I also try to block tracking cookies. Fuck most 3rd party cookies in general with Neptune's trident.)
There are plenty of people picking apart every device they buy and code they download that nothing remains secret. That's why Valve and other developers are in a cat and mouse game with cheaters, and everyone knows Valve is doing something to their PCs. Sony and Ninty are at it with hackers for "homebrewing". And major retailers and banks are fighting credit card hackers and ID thieves. No company cares how much Asian bikini girl pics I've looked at today. I just watch out in case some virus installs a key logger or something no matter what I'm doing online. (I also try to block tracking cookies. Fuck most 3rd party cookies in general with Neptune's trident.)
Wait. We're getting our jimmies rustled because we don't want people to know what kind of websites we visit? That is incredibly....shallow.
So its not personal particulars, addresses, phone numbers, emails, but WEBSITES WE VISIT. Lets grab pitchforks and torch Valve.
First of, why do you care? I certainly don't. In the grand scheme of things,I , as a consumer of Valve's products, am just another faceless nobody. I am a paying digit on a list. I have no face. So why would I have even the slightest cause of concern that an enormous company with possibly millions of users, will release/store something as BANAL as the websites I use?
What are the odds that Valve will announce to the world that little BIlly watches MLP every evening on youtube, or that Frankie is a connoisseur of obscure niche pornography?
Really guys. You're over-estimating yourselves greatly. Your web browser history is hardly goddamn important to Valve, regardless of how much of a special snow-flake you think you are. If you think that looking at someone's browsing history is a "breach of privacy", you have a lot to learn.
So its not personal particulars, addresses, phone numbers, emails, but WEBSITES WE VISIT. Lets grab pitchforks and torch Valve.
First of, why do you care? I certainly don't. In the grand scheme of things,I , as a consumer of Valve's products, am just another faceless nobody. I am a paying digit on a list. I have no face. So why would I have even the slightest cause of concern that an enormous company with possibly millions of users, will release/store something as BANAL as the websites I use?
What are the odds that Valve will announce to the world that little BIlly watches MLP every evening on youtube, or that Frankie is a connoisseur of obscure niche pornography?
Really guys. You're over-estimating yourselves greatly. Your web browser history is hardly goddamn important to Valve, regardless of how much of a special snow-flake you think you are. If you think that looking at someone's browsing history is a "breach of privacy", you have a lot to learn.
The one's referred to in the article call back when the cheat program (aka trainer) is started, not just at download.Hairless Mammoth said:
And yes, commercial cheat programs are a very real thing. It's a business that has spawned with the advent of achievement systems which resulted in a back door "always on requirement". This has also lead to publishers and developers saying "because others can see that you play the game now, we don't want you using cheats in it for whatever reason." so very few games have built in cheats anymore, even innocuous ones. This has caused a massive spike in the use of said trainers by people who just want to play games their own way without a developer or publisher telling them they can't. And wherever there's a sufficient demand, there's a business and companies are determined to protect their product.
The more ethical trainer makers go through considerable effort to make sure only single player experiences are unaffected though the increasing demand of multiplayer being the core mechanic of games regardless of whether single or multiplayer such as Sim City 5 is making this increasingly more difficult. Less ethical ones however don't care and allow (or in some cases encourage) trainers to be used in multiplayer modes. This is what the VAC and other systems (like Punkbuster and Blizzard's Warden system for example) use.
Funny thing to say, considering Valve is about the only company that has earned all the trust put into it. Not to mention operating internally and being founded entirely based on trust and goodwill.Tanis said:
Money became a part of the equation when we started throwing it at them, not when they demanded it.
This forum is the reason I need to learn to stop visiting this site except for its videos. The amount of stupid, paranoia and exaggerate is second to no other site I know of. The policing from modders is also incredibly poor to say the least.
1. Valve is the ONLY gaming publisher in the world that could possibly have earned any kind of trust from anyone. If you don't trust this company, its time for you to get another hobby.
2. Even if they wanted to, they couldn't really do anything with a DNS lookup except look at the ip addresses you connect to. If they really wanted to they could program an application to rummage around..and then use it for what exactly? Sell information? To who and for what purpose? These guys are completely capable of earning money without doing shit like that. They're the richest company pr employee IN THE WORLD, only for doing things that are good for their costumers. It would lose them business doing things like that, and they know it.
3. They where completely open about what it did and the reason they did it.
4. They don't even use it anymore.
5. Whatever malicious you think valve is doing, every other gaming company (and tons of others like Google and Facebook, that you use every fucking day) are doing the same and much worse. And don't think you can just switch to Bing, they do the same as Google only are much worse at utilizing it. I think its time you take off your tinfoil hat and realize that this is the world we live in, and you are never going to be completely anonymous again. What does this mean for you? Nothing. Not a damn thing. No one is going to walk past you on the street and go "oh, gross! That person looked at horse porn yesterday".
1. Valve is the ONLY gaming publisher in the world that could possibly have earned any kind of trust from anyone. If you don't trust this company, its time for you to get another hobby.
2. Even if they wanted to, they couldn't really do anything with a DNS lookup except look at the ip addresses you connect to. If they really wanted to they could program an application to rummage around..and then use it for what exactly? Sell information? To who and for what purpose? These guys are completely capable of earning money without doing shit like that. They're the richest company pr employee IN THE WORLD, only for doing things that are good for their costumers. It would lose them business doing things like that, and they know it.
3. They where completely open about what it did and the reason they did it.
4. They don't even use it anymore.
5. Whatever malicious you think valve is doing, every other gaming company (and tons of others like Google and Facebook, that you use every fucking day) are doing the same and much worse. And don't think you can just switch to Bing, they do the same as Google only are much worse at utilizing it. I think its time you take off your tinfoil hat and realize that this is the world we live in, and you are never going to be completely anonymous again. What does this mean for you? Nothing. Not a damn thing. No one is going to walk past you on the street and go "oh, gross! That person looked at horse porn yesterday".
