Gabe Newell Speaks On Recent VAC Controversy

[Lictor Face]

Wait. We're getting our jimmies rustled because we don't want people to know what kind of websites we visit? That is incredibly....shallow.

So its not personal particulars, addresses, phone numbers, emails, but WEBSITES WE VISIT. Lets grab pitchforks and torch Valve.

First of, why do you care? I certainly don't. In the grand scheme of things,I , as a consumer of Valve's products, am just another faceless nobody. I am a paying digit on a list. I have no face. So why would I have even the slightest cause of concern that an enormous company with possibly millions of users, will release/store something as BANAL as the websites I use?

What are the odds that Valve will announce to the world that little BIlly watches MLP every evening on youtube, or that Frankie is a connoisseur of obscure niche pornography?

Really guys. You're over-estimating yourselves greatly. Your web browser history is hardly goddamn important to Valve, regardless of how much of a special snow-flake you think you are. If you think that looking at someone's browsing history is a "breach of privacy", you have a lot to learn.

 

[LordLundar]

Understandable that Valve tries fighting cheaters. Although, wouldn't cheat DRM bypass a browser anyway, so someone who downloaded the cheat from a separate PC or dual-booted would be able to go undetected if they used browser history.

The one's referred to in the article call back when the cheat program (aka trainer) is started, not just at download.

And yes, commercial cheat programs are a very real thing. It's a business that has spawned with the advent of achievement systems which resulted in a back door "always on requirement". This has also lead to publishers and developers saying "because others can see that you play the game now, we don't want you using cheats in it for whatever reason." so very few games have built in cheats anymore, even innocuous ones. This has caused a massive spike in the use of said trainers by people who just want to play games their own way without a developer or publisher telling them they can't. And wherever there's a sufficient demand, there's a business and companies are determined to protect their product.

The more ethical trainer makers go through considerable effort to make sure only single player experiences are unaffected though the increasing demand of multiplayer being the core mechanic of games regardless of whether single or multiplayer such as Sim City 5 is making this increasingly more difficult. Less ethical ones however don't care and allow (or in some cases encourage) trainers to be used in multiplayer modes. This is what the VAC and other systems (like Punkbuster and Blizzard's Warden system for example) use.

 

[Naqel]

'Trust us' is a line used by every corrupt company and government.

So, no, I won't 'trust you'.
Trust is EARNED, and they haven't earned it.

Funny thing to say, considering Valve is about the only company that has earned all the trust put into it. Not to mention operating internally and being founded entirely based on trust and goodwill.

Money became a part of the equation when we started throwing it at them, not when they demanded it.

 

[Excludos]

This forum is the reason I need to learn to stop visiting this site except for its videos. The amount of stupid, paranoia and exaggerate is second to no other site I know of. The policing from modders is also incredibly poor to say the least.

1. Valve is the ONLY gaming publisher in the world that could possibly have earned any kind of trust from anyone. If you don't trust this company, its time for you to get another hobby.

2. Even if they wanted to, they couldn't really do anything with a DNS lookup except look at the ip addresses you connect to. If they really wanted to they could program an application to rummage around..and then use it for what exactly? Sell information? To who and for what purpose? These guys are completely capable of earning money without doing shit like that. They're the richest company pr employee IN THE WORLD, only for doing things that are good for their costumers. It would lose them business doing things like that, and they know it.

3. They where completely open about what it did and the reason they did it.

4. They don't even use it anymore.

5. Whatever malicious you think valve is doing, every other gaming company (and tons of others like Google and Facebook, that you use every fucking day) are doing the same and much worse. And don't think you can just switch to Bing, they do the same as Google only are much worse at utilizing it. I think its time you take off your tinfoil hat and realize that this is the world we live in, and you are never going to be completely anonymous again. What does this mean for you? Nothing. Not a damn thing. No one is going to walk past you on the street and go "oh, gross! That person looked at horse porn yesterday".

 

[TomWiley]

Trust us? I seem to remember EA saying something like this when it turned out software in Origin was scanning user's hard drives.

 

[Storm Dragon]

I don't really think Valve would care that I'm into [REDACTED].

 

[AstaresPanda]

'Trust us' is a line used by every corrupt company and government.

So, no, I won't 'trust you'.
Trust is EARNED, and they haven't earned it.

lol what !? First day on the job or somthing ? You know Valve ? the reason they have ppl lovng them is coz they HAVE earned that trust. Name me another time valve have been pulling shit ? No ? well then lets cut the shit. Valve make MORE then enough money selling bullshit hats Steam itself has them set for life. So why do a 360 and start being greedy EA for your browser history ? It does not add up.

After this NSA thing everyone is getting abit weird, the NSA is has been gathering info on you thats bad, but facebook is ok for everyone to post their every step on. Logic whoooo

 

[thewatergamer]

Ehhhhhh sorry valve more and more I am questioning your motives...

Your too damn secretive and won't tell us anything, so when you come out and be open about something finally, I find it hard to trust you, especially since the only reason you came out of your shell is to cover your own ass...

 

[Something Amyss]

The amount of "it's Valve, so it's different" in this thread disappoints me dearly.

 

[Lvl 64 Klutz]

I don't even know how this got to be such a big deal. Someone you don't know and who doesn't know you can see what you're doing on the Internet. How is that even a big deal? It's not like they're hacking webcams or tracking credit card numbers. There's literally no risk other than someone who doesn't give two shits about who you are knowing you have a BDSM fetish.

 

[misg]

i swear, gabe could be caught as the head of an international child pornography ring and the gaming comunity would just forgive him, give him a pass, probably even rage and lobby for his release, all while making half life 3 jokes

That is not even funny. I don't think the gaming community would stand for this even slightly, I've gamed for a long time part of that is protecting the new young gamers, sure you raz them give them a hard time and make them earn respect. But if sort of thing happens the response is swift and vengeful.

Personally I don't see an issue with Vac, so they grab websites so does every other company out there. Facebook has tracked everything you look at with cookies for years. Also What Gabe said was "We try really hard to earn and keep your trust." That isn't simply saying "trust us" it's saying they know the value of trust and that it's earn and needs to be guarded or it will be lost.

End of the day it's a arms race to keep the games you like safe from hackers and cheats. Now maybe this wasn't the best choice of move on valve's part but as stated in the article it's not even used anymore.

 

[CelestDaer]

I literally only came into this thread to comment on Gabe's beard... and how old he's starting to look. Now I have, so... goo'bye.

 

[WarpZone]

Second, he said that this protocol isn't actually in use anymore. Whenever VAC makes a new protocol, it's basically an "arms-race" for the cheaters to try and circumvent it, which is why Valve is so secretive about how VAC works in the first place. Newell says that the cheat providers have already worked around this particular protocol by manipulating the DNS cache of their customers' client machines.

Please clarify. Does this mean that VAC currently does NOT track what websites Steam users have visited?

 

[freaper]

OT:
Pretty fascinating stuff about the cheating. I can't possibly imagine actually paying someone to have an advantage in a game.

Hah, you mean Pay to Win isn't a thing? It just depends on who you're paying, I guess

I trust Valve, and as long as they don't do anything particularly evil I have no reason to doubt them.

 

[Combustion Kevin]

Trust someone? what, and lose my "grim, mature and realist" card in the process?
hell no! noone can be trusted, ever, it only ever sets you up for betrayal and disappointment at all times because the world is cruel and unkind, and people are a plague.

...

wow, I don't know what came over me. >.>

My experience with this program has at been only marginally better than the one I had with punkbuster, who kicks your ass for even the slightest anomaly in the system, or player managed servers, who kick your ass for pissing off the owner.
Besides, internet sites we visit are already being tracked by security agencies and advertisement companies, and I got problems with neither.

 

[Abomination]

The amount of paranoia surrounding privacy of internet searches is just staggering. If it ever came to a time that you were actually harmed by this breach of privacy you could sue the offending party to kingdom come.

I wish a company like Valve would violate my privacy, I could do with some extra cash.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

OT:
Pretty fascinating stuff about the cheating. I can't possibly imagine actually paying someone to have an advantage in a game.

Hah, you mean Pay to Win isn't a thing? It just depends on who you're paying, I guess

You just blew my goddamn mind.

I don't know how the hell I typed my original post without realizing that. Seems really obvious now, but still... Woah.

 

[Timmey]

Warpzone, it means that they've stopped using that particular method.

This thread Jesus the amount of bullshit in here. CEO of a billion dollar company goes online himself to answer questions over fears about the way VAC works, and instead of people saying fair play thanks for explaining it etc, they decide to shit all over it.

Whilst not the most popular answer, if your unhappy with the way steam works, don't use it, problem solved.

How dare we not grovel in the rich man's greatness!

Those dang peasants.

Good reply really addressed my points, he clearly laid out how VAC worked and why they had been using it in that way, whats the problem?

 

[RA92]

The amount of "it's Valve, so it's different" in this thread disappoints me dearly.

The amount of people who missed the fact that they don't even use it anymore after cheaters circumvented it disappoints me dearly.

 

[shiajun]

No company should just "deserve" our trust. No matter how much good will they've built up, it should always show that its policies are in your benefit and not ask you to base that on faith. That said, it's just stupid that people would react angrily to this.

1) It only looked for DNS of cheat programs in your DNS cache, much like an antivirus searches for signatures in your drive. That's it.
2) It's not doing it anymore, since like antivirus programs, they have to keep changing the strategy.
3) Valve has no commercial use for your browser history. It would be clogging up their servers with info they don't need to be profitable.
4) Even it was still on, there's a simple way for your DNS cache not to get to Valve through VAC. Don't turn on Steam if you plan to do something that you would rather not be known, then flush it afterwards. It can only be scanned if Steam is running. The End.

Seriously, it's just good PC habit to start up your computer with the least programs running. Also, if you don't like Steam limiting the installation of trainers, don't use it. That's it. It's not like the NSA hijacking systems that are vital to everyday communications and services. You can just not use it.

On a side note, it's just sad that fun cheats now have to be paid for, like some bizarre DLC package.