Gambling Laws Could Halt Diablo 3's South Korean Release

[SonofSeth]

No no no! Before there were certain risks and stigmas associated with buying real money gear. It might have been duped or you could have actions taken against your account and so on. It was something that was frowned upon and bad for the game. Now it's an actual part of the game and now there is no stigma or risk involved and you can bet real money transactions will be king if you want to participate in the D3 economy. The end result is going to be gold being next to worthless and the real money economy will be the only viable choice

People can say they won't buy things for real money but when it's the only avenue available they will be left with little choice. Of course even if they aren't buying doesn't mean they will pass up the opportunity to make a quick 10 bucks or more if they find a high end item. This will lead to people being presented with two options if they want gear. Farm it or buy it with real money. High end gear will not be available for gold. You can count on that.

Having Blizzard pulling the strings all of a sudden doesn't magically make it stop being detrimental to the game. It just means Blizzard sold out to the gold farmers because they are either too lazy too greedy or too impotent (likely all three) to police their own game. It will now though be even more harmful to the games economy because now there is no risk or stigma involved and will be rampant.

Now as to the gold farmers, they won't be losing out on a damn thing. They will just move their businesses from their websites to inside the game. They will still have warehouses full of Chinese poor farming away day and night and now they will have better exposure than ever and are already set up to prosper the most of anyone but Blizzard. Where as before people had to go look for their sites now they will already be inside the game and you likely won't be able to tell if you are buying an item from a college student or gold farmer.

Bottom line is that real money transactions killed the economy in D2 and it will be just as harmful to D3. Just becaues Blizz is making their cut off of it doesn't change that at their core real money transactions are poison, and have no place, in video games.

We can't know if this will work or not, we have no point of comparison to make such a claim. You base your whole argument on your experience with D2, but this isn't completely same as D2. D3 has better money sinks, crafting is random and costs gold, gold will not be produced indefinitely, it will be syfened out of the economy by additional game mechanics that weren't in place in D2.

It probably will be wonky at the beginning until the market sets the values of gold and items, and even if there is still problems, Blizzard can tweak values of gold sinks to be more in line with what the market demands.

Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe this kind of system has been tried before and failed, but I don't know about it.
You just have to remember this isn't just an item shop, or just a gold selling operation, it's a full functional ebay inside the game, and only way to be sure in how it will play out is to wait and see. I doubt even Blizzard can predict with any certainty how exactly this will play out when the gaming masses put it to the test.


Have your opinions and declare them as loud as you want, it would just be appreciated if you thought about it for a second, rather than just copy pasting your existing biases.

 

[Aeshi]

Bullshit.

Under that retarded logic maybe selling a car should be illegal because there's a "chance" that the manufacturing plants will shut down due to a software error or something.

And to all the prats who are going "WELL IT IS GAMBLING HURRDURR COOL TO BASH":

a) Even if the feature was removed people would still be selling items for real money anyway, something you might have known if you had actually played Diablo II for any amount of time on multiplayer.

b) How is "getting an item by buying it" really all that worse/"skilless" than "getting an item by virtue of being the lucky 1/1000 it drops for?"

 

[OMGIllithan]

The economy will be fine. Like Mr. Funk said, the real money market existed in D2 but people were still able to trade in game without touching the market if they didn't want (I know I did). The majority of people likely aren't going to use this feature and will be looking to trade the same way you want to.

Maybe it will, maybe it won't.
I don't care either way. I won't be playing Diablo 3.

Suit yourself, I'm still playing and its going to be fun.

Also, the more "farmers" there are then the better prices are for everyone. The only people who are losing in this transaction are the people who thought they could make a semblance of an income from farming virtual items from a video game.

Sigh. The "point" is always ignored or misplaced...
I'll just say this: It seems nonsensical to me to play a game whose primarily selling point is the grind. I cannot find any rational appeal in it beyond skinner and addiction models.
I say this, because the "market" wouldn't exist if there wasn't so much grind.

Diablo 2 also boiled down to a grind in the end. Does that mean it wasn't fun before then? Absolutely not. Unfortunately the only way to give a game more self sustaining content after the life of the game should have met its end is to add grindy type features. Games aren't meant to be played forever. Quitting after putting 100+ hours into a game because its a grind in the end game doesn't make the game bad.

As another point unrelated to your post, who cares if people get a "competitive" advantage? Diablo is a cooperative game with a not serious and not balanced pvp component.

Then you've had the incredible luck to not have to deal with griefers and hackers in Diablo 2.
I always found it to be an incredible irony that I wanted to block or ban most of the players I encountered online because the vast majority of the ones I encountered were spambots, griefers, or assholes.
And I played Diablo 2 online for some unhealthy amount of time despite that...well, I don't have the patience for that bullshit anymore.

(Before someone says it: Yeah, you *could* password-protect your game, but now you're just playing Single Player online, which DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF PLAYING MULTIPLAYER IN THE FIRST PLACE.)

In my opinion, if someone is an asshole, they're an asshole no matter how decked out they are. Unfortunately, the internet tends to do that to some people. However, based on how well Blizzard manages their online communities, I have faith that there will be some cool people to meet and play with out there. Either way, that point isn't really Blizzard's fault.

If you join a game with someone who bought their way to victory than great! They'll be helping make your group's adventure that much easier to manage.

I hate feeling useless when I play games. I hate being nothing but an exp leech.
I hate jogging uselessly behind the party doing nothing because my damage output is less than half of the guy with the duped broken-ass Runeword. And I especially hate it when they join my party, and then ***** at ME for "slowing them down".

And I've been in that position many times in Diablo 2 precisely because people DID buy power when I did not.

Its too early to say since so few people have seen the game so far, but I have a feeling that D3 is going to be a little better balanced in the end game than D2. Again, some people are assholes and it sucks. Its not Blizzard or the person's gear's fault. Though, I tend to have a positive outlook on things (its much more fun that way!).

 

[Siyano_v1legacy]

I'm afraid for Quebecker, our law prevent some price winning to be won outside of our little province, I wonder how is that dealed about

 

[4173]

Huh, I think I just got it. It's a problem if you actually play the game. For me, the story was done primarily by myself or with people I knew.

Multi-player with random people was mostly Cow or Baal, or maybe rescuing Hell Anya. In none of those situations do I mind if my teammate bought his items.

 

[Carboncrown]

I'd like to remind people about a few things since this always comes up and people say it like Blizz betrayed them or committed a cardinal sin or something. It's fine if you wanted a more PvP oriented (or grimdark) game but...

I have to say, I'm not South Korean, but I wouldn't mind seeing this feature removed either. Stuff like this is annoying. I hate the game balance being ruined by being able to buy significantly better items with real money. This is going to ruin the competitive MP because no one is going to want to play against anyone else who may have just bought better items, making it that much easier for them to win.

*snip*

From day 1. Blizz made it clear that they dont care about PvP or making D3 an e-sport.
It's 1) A PvE game 2) A trading game. Both experiences(granted, IMO) are only enhanced by adding the optional real-money AH.

Plus, there's always hardcore, which obviously has no real-money AH.

*snippety*
Its like a buying a model, the fun is putting it together and the reward is showing off the result.
This system will be like being able to buy the model fully assembled, then showing it off... waste of money if you ask me.


*snap*

... oh, and once again: There is a PRICE to sell items in the AH, you pay a FEE in real cash just to put up the item. There is also another fee if you do sell the item, and finally theres the double charge if you try cash in ( one from Bliz and the other from Paypal/3rd party that deals with the transfer ).

You'll only benefit from people throwing their money at the developer, whether or not it ruins their experience.

And more importantly, all those fees are of no loss to you, if you only use the monthly free chance to put your items up for sale.

EDIT: fix'd misquote, sorry about that.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Bullshit.
And to all the prats who are going "WELL IT IS GAMBLING HURRDURR COOL TO BASH":

Question: Are you still a "prat" if you used logic and evidence instead of a mass-ad-hominem to support your claim?

Because a certain man's gotta know.

 

[Aeshi]

And what "logic and evidence" would that be? I haven't seen anything mildly resembling either.

 

[jyork89]

I don't see what the issue behind this is. I mean people make the conscious choice to spend their money. While others can get the same thing by investing time. So whats the problem? I mean DLC on the other hand is people have to pay for an advantage which is not available unless you pay. In this case the advantage is available either way and the question is whether you want to spend time or money on obtaining it. Compared to DLC this is far more fair and justifiable.

 

[Atmos Duality]

And what "logic and evidence" would that be? I haven't seen anything mildly resembling either.

There are several arguments here you're calling out, but aren't actually refuting.

I'm just saying, it's better to point out the flaws in their specific arguments rather than just making a poor analogy and then insulting everyone who doesn't share the same opinion as you.

 

[LJJ1991]

As for the "gambling" issue, I can't say I agree with South Korea. It isn't gambling because the player isn't putting any money down, on the table. They're just killing things.

Time is money, risking time to for a chance to get money absolutely is gambling.

As for this comment, if you're playing Diablo 3, you're playing a video game. A video game is there for enjoyment (unless you're a game reviewer). If you really believe what you say, then you would never waste your time playing a video game, you'd be doing something that makes you money. That doesn't mean some people won't play Diablo 3 for the sole reason of making money, but they're morons.

His comment is more true than you think: every item that gets sold on the Auction House?
They wouldn't have value if not for the average time commitment required to get them; so from this, we establish that TIME is the primary metric of value; and the payout of that value, can be in in-game gold, or real world currency (and for the sake of the argument, we'll just focus on the latter).

We also know that the item drops are:
1) Random
2) Very rare (factor for the time metric)
3) NOT GUARANTEED

And it very much becomes comparable to gambling, which might I remind you, is considered first and foremost a form of ENTERTAINMENT; a "game of chance". Therefore, the point about the player doing something else "because it's a game, not gambling" is nonsensical.

So instead of directly betting money, player bets time to potentially WIN MONEY.
However, because the payoff's value is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL TO TIME AND CARRIES REAL-CURRENCY VALUE, then in this instance, we can equate time to money. If this were not true, then rarer items wouldn't carry a higher price coefficient (because there would be a more common/economical substitute good).

If Diablo 3 isn't an overt form of gambling, then it certainly pushes the boundaries for the classification.

By that logic, any game with an auction house would be considered gambling. The only difference between Diablo 3 and any other game is that Diablo 3 uses real life currency. There is a similar thing for EVE online, except it's a player made corporation that runs it as opposed to the actual company.

http://cogdev.net/blink/

In this, you put down in game cash and bid on an item. If you lose the bid, you lose the money. There is a RISK involved, but time is not a risk. Even though that uses in game cash, it's closer to gambling than Diablo 3's auction house. One could argue that time is a risk only if whatever they're using their time for is the only form of income they have. And, as I stated, anyone who uses Diablo 3 as their only type of income, is a moron...

 

[Throwitawaynow]

A job in real life always got a set amount of money you get from it at the end of the day, this do not.

No, it really doesn't. Most sales people work on commission which means how much they are paid is dependent on how many sales they made. People who fish for a living are dependent on how many fish they catch. Lots of jobs have bonuses that are not a set amount of money.

 

[Atmos Duality]

By that logic, any game with an auction house would be considered gambling.

Legally speaking, yes. If the items have real-world money values. It very well could.
The Asian online gaming market has its own sub-culture of social games; many of which utilize gambling under the pretense of grind (I recall a game where you found locked chests, but could only purchase keys with real money. If you unlocked the most chests of anyone on the server at the end of the day, you got a prize. Sickeningly effective psychology.)

To go off on a brief tangent here:
In its purest form; money is the closest thing we have as a social placeholder for time.
The amount of man-hours you put in to get that money vs the amount of man-hours in goods and services you could potentially get out of it.

The only difference between Diablo 3 and any other game is that Diablo 3 uses real life currency. There is a similar thing for EVE online, except it's a player made corporation that runs it as opposed to the actual company.

http://cogdev.net/blink/

In this, you put down in game cash and bid on an item. If you lose the bid, you lose the money. There is a RISK involved, but time is not a risk. Even though that uses in game cash, it's closer to gambling than Diablo 3's auction house.

Yes, I'd say it is. And as fascinating as EVE Online is, this in no way detracts from my argument for Diablo 3.

One could argue that time is a risk only if whatever they're using their time for is the only form of income they have.

By that logic, only professional gamblers can lose money in casinos...but that's beside the point.

There are two points of controversy:
1) The player isn't putting down real money on a bet when they grind; they directly bid time (which, we equated to money)
2) The payout is in real money, and the metric of value for that item is time. Whether this qualifies as money spent on a service (the player providing the item as the result of grind) or gambling is iffy here, because it skirts the lines of both.

But the problem I have, is that the main metric of value for any given item is directly derived from the statistical averaged time (and the immediate demand for that item) it would take to acquire* that item normally, and that the drop is explicitly RANDOM no matter what you do (so it ALWAYS boils down to a game of chance).

These sorts of grind-games resemble gambling on principle for that very reason, except that instead of bidding cash, you bid time.

(*and even then it might be statistically impossible to acquire without trading/buying; I tried for years to get a Tiamat's Rebuke in Diablo 2 for my collection, and never had one drop legitimately. Most long-time Diablo 2 players have NEVER seen a native Zod rune drop. I never saw a single SoJ legitimately drop for me from 1.10 onward; a good 5 years)

And, as I stated, anyone who uses Diablo 3 as their only type of income, is a moron...

As much as I agree with that statement, I also know there are gold farmers and botters that have made a fortune. It's a sad world we live in, really.

 

[Setch Dreskar]

I have to say, I'm not South Korean, but I wouldn't mind seeing this feature removed either. Stuff like this is annoying. I hate the game balance being ruined by being able to buy significantly better items with real money. This is going to ruin the competitive MP because no one is going to want to play against anyone else who may have just bought better items, making it that much easier for them to win.

On the other hand, I agree with Blizzard that there is no risk and therefore shouldn't be considered gambling. But, as a few people around here are familiar with, South Korea did open the first ever clinic to treat video game addiction. I'm not surprised they would take this stance at all.

It was noticed in one of the iterations for Blizzard's real-money auction house you have to pay blizzard money to first list it (which is non-refundable) Blizzard takes out a fee for the win, and then takes out another fee to transfer it to cash if you should wish. Personally I haven't paid attention much to Diablo 3, but a good video to check out is Total Biscuit's Mailbox: August 1st, 2011 where he goes into more detail.

Which qualifies as a risk, since you risk losing money rather then gaining it because of the initial fee you must pay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBrESZJlNvQ&feature=sh_e_se&list=SL [Dunno if video linking is shunned on or not]

 

[Yokai]

Gee, Blizzard, maybe this is another sign that the thousands of people complaining about the ridiculous features in D3 might actually be right after all!

Yes, I'm still bitter.

 

[kebab4you]

A job in real life always got a set amount of money you get from it at the end of the day, this do not.

No, it really doesn't. Most sales people work on commission which means how much they are paid is dependent on how many sales they made. People who fish for a living are dependent on how many fish they catch. Lots of jobs have bonuses that are not a set amount of money.

Okey you got me there however I would like to point out the brief moment I worked as a salesman I still had a set amount of money that I got in each month, if I sold I got more in.

 

[theultimateend]

I have to say, I'm not South Korean, but I wouldn't mind seeing this feature removed either. Stuff like this is annoying. I hate the game balance being ruined by being able to buy significantly better items with real money. This is going to ruin the competitive MP because no one is going to want to play against anyone else who may have just bought better items, making it that much easier for them to win.

On the other hand, I agree with Blizzard that there is no risk and therefore shouldn't be considered gambling. But, as a few people around here are familiar with, South Korea did open the first ever clinic to treat video game addiction. I'm not surprised they would take this stance at all.

Me too! Someone force blizzard to remove it so that it'll go back to just being on Ebay and every other non-regulated website on the internet!

This-will-fix-everything.

 

[Azmael Silverlance]

While South Korea is a huge gaming market with great players its not that huge and its that lucrative. Its just one small country in a very very big world with much bigger countries still.

So its not that big of a blow to remove the feature. They fixed some blood stuff before for germany`s SC2 i think. Wouldnt be hard to remove their action house.

 

[PingoBlack]

Yes Escapist, how dare you simply report succinctly on the most relevant aspects of this story. Why did you not mention and research a game you probably would never had heard of? Your failure to mention it and its tangential relevance it shows you are clearly attempting to discredit Diablo III before it has even come out.

Research is important in journalism.

What I was saying is that Escapist failed to research badly written article in Korean Times, they decided to just copy/paste a copy/paste.

I spent 5 minutes to learn the other game in subject, Emperor Online, has actual in game gambling casino together with an AH.

I just expect much more research from Escapist. Gaming journalism is bad as it is, main stream media like Korean Times is even worse on subject of this kind of news. But if you do not want high standards, your call.