Game Changer

Seldon2639

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Could it be a game-changer? Maybe.

Do I want it to be? No.

Allow me to elaborate.

We're coming to a point when the mainstream audiences for movies, television, et al are going to either be gamers themselves (hardcore, casual, what have you) or at least grew up with video games. We're all well-aware of their narrative styles and tropes. We are poised for actual video-game elements and concepts to break into the mainstream, and gain a bit more acceptance as a storytelling medium. Scott Pilgrim is a step backwards.

I never read the visual novels, and I'll accept that some of it is probably between pretty good and damned good. But, the movie itself is stuck in a place where its only possible sustenance was puerile immaturity. Okay... I should take a breath. I didn't like the movie. I hate Michael Cera as an actor (or at least the roles he's generally cast in), and I think that the "anti-hero who's on the one hand manipulative, but just needs to be wuvved" thing is both annoying and unnecessary. Strip out the video-game elements, apparent genre savvy of the characters, and you've just got a bad romantic comedy with an unlikable hero.

At issue there is that the "satire" or "deconstruction" only works when it's assumed here. It's less about actually analyzing any of the cliches it invokes, it's about basically saying "we're much more clever than those other guys, because we know we're cliched". It's sneering, smirking, hipster idiocy.

So, can it be a game changer?

I guess. It could be that this is the first wave of movies wherein video-game concepts will not only be utilized, but specifically invoked. And, of course, since more modern (i.e cinematic, i.e "it's like a movie anyway") games already moved away from most of the more ostentatious cliches, if they want to do this, it'll have to be the way Scott Pilgrim does it: by using the cliches of old.

I just really hope it isn't.

Here's the dirty little secret: those old cliches suck (simply suck) as narrative devices. Lives and powerups are terribly difficult to weave into any kind of story (much less one in which there's meant to be any kind of suspense), and existed in a time when the plot of games was minimal at best. Would we ever accept a game (now) in which the plot was almost exclusively "take sword, go save girl"? Well... Yes. Except those games now are either homages to the olden days, (Altus has a good history of this), or have depth of storytelling unavailable or unwanted in the Zelda days of yore.

For the most part, we see the original Zelda games (even ignoring graphics, and focused solely on story and plot) a bit like the most primitive movies: focused solely on the novelty of the medium, rather than using the medium to convey a story. The earliest motion picture was just of a guy laughing (or getting slapped, I can't remember), and the sheer newness of this was enough to draw people to the theatres. Movies moved past that, and so have we. Why would we want our "game-changer" that heralds game elements in movies to be one basically akin to trying to bring elements of a Charlie Chaplin movie into a video game? Yeah, it'd be novel, and silly, and fun, but in the long term it's not a good way to mesh two mature artforms.

In a more general sense, I have to disagree with Bob on principle. First, Annie Hall only exists because Woody Allen sucked badly at making a crime drama. He salvaged something by accident when he scrapped the main thrust of the movie he originally made, and saved only the more scattershot elements of the romantic comedy. It was not a stylistic choice of Allen's, and please don't give him too much credit. But, here's the thing:

There's a difference between the narrative elements, and the mis-en-scene elements. I'm gonna nerd out for a bit, so bear with me. Bob conflates the narrative element (how Scott comes back from the "dead") with the mis-en-scene elements like the cut away to interior shots. Narrative elements are how you tell the story, the tropes about the actual plot and reality of the world you're creating. The cloud-cookoolander genki girl is a narrative element. Shaky cam is a mis-en-scene element.

The mis-en-scene can help set a mood, but is fundamentally restrained to the "how" things are presented, not that "what" is going on. Video game mis-en-scene would include the actual camera-work (for good or ill), the art style, the voice-overs, ect. Would it be interesting to make an entire war movie in the style of an FPS? Or an RTS? Yes. And those would be adapting the actual stylistic elements of games to a different form. Would infinitely respawning enemies be interesting? Yeah. Would random encounters completely divorced from the actual narration of the movie be different?

What about the narrative elements? Well, the good ones (by which I mean, the stuff that goes into the plot of a more modern game) we stole wholecloth from movies. The bad ones (powerups, lives, ect.) aren't all that adaptable.

TL;DR?

I didn't like the movie, and I don't want it to be our first attempt as gamers at influencing mainstream movies.
 

Nomanslander

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Daselthechaz said:
That particular distinction goes to Run Lola Run. Its entire narrative is predicated on the mechanic of learning from one's mistakes, even those that were formally mortal.
I'll take your Run Lola Run (another movie I thought was overrated, all about a pretty redhead bouncing for an hour and half which was nice to watch but...=/) and raise you Groundhog's Day....=)
 

Arcane Azmadi

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What Bob is talking about here (can't anyone in this thread actually post ON TOPIC here instead of just praising/ragging on Scott Pilgrim?), although he didn't directly name it, is the development and transposition of Tropes [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Tropes]. Bob has referenced TV Tropes before in his Intermission columns and he directly mentioned the Manic Pixie Dream Girl [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ManicPixieDreamGirl] trope here, as well as indirectly referencing several others such as Breaking The Fourth Wall [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BreakingTheFourthWall].

What he's suggesting is that Scott Pilgrim is a film which will be significant in codifying new tropes (or popularizing obscure existing ones) that will play a role in future films- or possibly even that it is introducing tropes that were previously exclusive to video games into different mediums. The usage and creation of tropes is a good measuring stick of how original something is- when we say we've "seen it all before" it's because we're recognising tropes that we've seen used in the same way in earlier works. Personally I haven't seen Scott Pilgrim yet although I'd like to (eh, spoilers don't really bother me much) but it sounds like it COULD have been a film that brought in a new age of cinema (unfortunately its poor reception by the shallow and closed-minded public seems to suggest otherwise). There should be more films like that. I for one am sick of the same old shit being made and remade again and again.
 

templargunman

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I really didn't like Scott Pilgrim... There are several reasons. It's partially due to Michael Cera being such a generic actor with an annoying voice. It was also incredibly hipster, because now retro games are "indie" (which is retarded because indie developers often make retro style games is because it's cheap and easy, not an independent style). I'm a bit too young to like retro gaming due to nostalgia. The earliest major title I played on a pc was Age of Empires II and before that I really just played games like reader rabbit and pokemon. Of course, I have friends who became fans of popular games like early final fantasy games decades after they came back, because they're indie now. I'm not a major AAA fan (although I'll buy the big shooters to play with my friends and genuinely enjoy some of them (for example: Red Dead)), but I do like playing games that are graphically advanced. While graphics aren't vital, I still love Rome: Total War and Medieval: Total War (the original), despite not having the graphics of Empire: Total War. And I'm willing to admit that Crysis wasn't that great of a game and its main purpose amongst my friends was to see who's computer could run it better. Now that I've gone back to the start of my post to remind me what the hell I was talking about... Seriously, where was I going with that?? Oh yeah... graphics aren't that important; but when people are becoming obsessed with games that are 20 years out of date graphically... I'm way to tired to be writing this. I forgot what I was talking about again. Ok, just going to wrap up... Michael Cera: Bad actor, please die. Indie: Used to mean independent, now means pretentious douchebag. Hipster: People who follow trends set by trend setters but are pretentious about it. Me: Forgot what I was talking about while wrapping up what I was talking about. Retro: Re-branding of old material saves trendsetters effort. What I was talking about: Forgotten. This post: Given up on. Edit: Wait no! I remembered what I wanted to talk about! Scott Pilgrim has a generic love story where they just add some weird ass creativity. The concept that it's a "game changer" is absurd. I've watched a decent number of movies and this is nothing special. Sure, it's different, but it tries too hard. It's hipster in the way it portrays everything. When you see some douche in skinny jeans and a jean shirt your first thought is www.latfh.com, when I was sitting in the theater watching McHipster Cera, I was thinking the exact same thing. Every scene is loaded with hipster characters doing hipster things. I wanted to root against Michael, but that would require me to root for the bad guys, who were also hipster. I ended up just staying mostly apathetic throughout the whole thing. Honestly I can't tell if I saw the whole movie because I only remember my apathy, I could have just been sitting in downtown portland or some other hipster capital with a strobe light going off in my face for an hour. F**k I hate hipsters... Anyway I forgot what I was talking about so I give up... It was a bad movie. Go to college kids, that way you won't be a hipster and you can get a real job.
 

wooty

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Aug 1, 2009
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The probem is though, if we do get to see more of this type of film making and style, audiences will eventually get bored again and move on or back to past genres.

At the moment its the invasion of the comic book/graphic novels era, Batman, Superman, Spider man, Iron man, Hulk......man. So many men to keep Whelan Smithers happy for life. Sure some are good, theres a sort of divide going on. Graphic novels for the older ones (Watchmen, 300, ect) and the good old superheroes for the.....younger audiences.

The problem I see is stagnation in Hollywood once again, comic book movies are being released like they're rolling off an assembly line. It no wonder The Expendables did so well after opening, it was something moderately fresh being put into the cinemas. What with Spider Man being just 8 years old and already heading for a reboot, thats madness in itself. Bets are on that they will try and make the new Spidey movie be The Dark Knight, but with more lycra, or possibly not.....
 

Jesus Phish

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I don't think this movie did anything all that new or inventive and I don't think it's going to impact alot, if any, movies in the future.

Ten years down the line, maybe some movie will be written and SPvsTW will get a mention, but that's about it.

Being honest with you, I don't even see this movie lasting much longer in the cinema. It will soon be on shelves placed between Donnie Darko and The Nightmare Before Christmas as a cult status movie.

And I don't know if it's just me but I feel bad for the actors from Superbad, as since then they seem to pretty much be type cast in a similar vein to what they were in that movie. Cera is the shy, quiet around girls type who gets flustered rather easily. Hill is the "fat man fall down go boom"/"I love vag but I dont get any" guy and Mintz is the new age nerd.

It'll be a damn shame if these guys don't break their molds and try other stuff out. Cera doesn't bug me half as much as he seem's to bug other people, but if he keeps playing the same annoying character he'll start to annoy me alot more.
 

rabidmidget

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Moriarty70 said:
See, I came out the far end of Scott Pilgrim seeing it as a parody of hipster culture by simply being self-aware of it's hipster apathy. I have a feeling most of the hate comes from two sides.

1. People think it's a stright up hipster film.
2. Hipsters realize they're being mocked.
3. The hatred of a popular Michael Cerra.
This pretty much covers my opinion.

Every single hipster related joke in the movie is at its own expense, but it seems that "hipster" is the new social leprosy after "emo", so people simply dismiss it as a celebration of "hipster" culture rather than a satire.

*let it be noted that I'm not a hipster, although I do like indie music.
 

Zolem

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Also, think about what this means for vid-game movies. "Nobody wants to see a movie that runs off the most bizzar aspects of videogame logic, that's why we cut it out to be more realistic." Oh yeah Mr Director? Have you seen Scott Pilgrim? It uses combo anouncements, fireballs, boss battles, power-ups, even a 1-UP, and nobody qestioned it. Why? Because nobody in the movie questioned it. They never commented on it, just like we don't comment on the lack of those things. To have the videogame elements present but not heavily comented on is a great way to use them in context without it being goofy. Otherwise, we wind up with stuff like The Legend of Chun Li that's as generic an action flick as you can get, has gmae names stamped on, and inculded a photoshop fireball as the grand finally that frankly I've seen done in higher quality and more realisticly on YouTube. So, yeah, if that's realism in videogame movies, I'd rather bust out a Gameshark. Or at least a SPinning Bird kick. Come on, even the cartoon had that!
 

cobra_ky

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i like how Scott Pilgrim started off as a comic book about video games, but now that it's a feature film it's suddenly "hip". i also like how many people think hipsters are lame because they're too cool, when hipsters are supposedly cool because they ironically think lame things are cool.

tehroc said:
Deus Ex Machina endings always turns me off, this is nothing new.
The Vegan Police are a deus ex machina. Using the 1-up is not.
 

Axolotl

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Epoetker said:
All it means is that Hot Fuzz guy is a better director for the masses (okay, a better director, period) than Brazil guy,
I'm all for Edgar Wright but he is not better than Terry Gilliam. Sure he helped make Spaced but Gilliam helped make Monty Python.
 

Crunchy English

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Aug 20, 2008
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The movie is nothing special, the ending is nothing special and this is the first time in a long time I've disagreed with Bob. What's weird is that I'm not dramatically opposed to Bob's take on it, I just think its wrong. I don't think Scott Pilgrim is a horrible movie made by horrible people, I think it's a boring movie made by boring people. I have a pretty good tolerance for satire, I seriously enjoy abstract or surreal elements in my movies. Scott Pilgrim was forgettable.

In fact, let me troll Bob for a moment. This is being said purely to infuriate Bob, but that doesn't mean it isn't completely true:

The Expendables will be more memorable ten years down the line, because it had an incredibly recognizable cast. Neither Pilgrim nor the Expendables was even remotely important, interesting or entertaining. But Expendables is more familiar, so people will remember it, likely as "that Stallone movie with all the action guys".
 

AquaAscension

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No one is really (save a couple) posting about the content of this article. At all. People are just throwing around the word hipster like they're homophobes and hipster is the new word for "gay." I'll get back to this later.

But big movements are made from small moments, and it's very possible that in this instance, Scott Pilgrim has done something to change the way we tell stories on film.
As stated on the first page of the article, Scott's death and rebirth is not a new trope at all. The movie that most prominently comes to my mind is The Matrix in which Neo dies but is reborn only to become stronger and save the day. What's interesting about Scott's death, however, is the way in which video game "language" is used to facilitate the language of the movie.

Here's an example of movie/film language from the article:A shot (or several) of the exterior of a location (building, house, whatever) followed by a cut (read: change of shots) to an interior location where, well, where some plot is going to happen, usually.
We all understand this as short hand for "these two places are the same; they are as the two sides of a single coin." This is movie language condensed into film and translated by your brains so that the film is imbued with meaning that makes sense to you. When Neo dies and is reborn in The Matrix, it's not hard for us to put meaning onto that incident. Perhaps he's brought back by the power of love, perhaps he's fated to (because the oracle poignantly tells him that he's waiting and, when asked why, she responds, "I don't know, another life maybe." We understand that he's been reborn without having to be told such because the film speaks a language that our minds have learned to translate.

Cue Scott Pilgrim's death scene. This scene gives us not only movie shorthand for death and rebirth, but it also gives us video game shorthand for another chance, another life, another run through. This all leads to:

A year after Scott Pilgrim, will more youth-targeted comedies be borrowing the shorthand of games and manga to pump up the story or rebrand tired metaphors?
In a sense, it's almost as if the title of this article is a pun. The real thing that's changing is that extra language/new ways of presenting old tropes are being presented by Scott Pilgrim.

With all these comments on how Scott Pilgrim is hipster and stupid or how Scott Pilgrim is amazing and awesome, it makes me wonder if people even read the article or just saw "Game Changer" and decided to whip out their allegiance to the movie like a crazed tween wearing a Jacob shirt does when she passes some other sparkling personality wearing an Edward shirt.

Was Pilgrim a game changer? I don't know. But I do think it tried something new and succeeded on many levels although failing on the broad market appeal factor. It's too bad though; I don't see any other movies offering new takes on tired tropes like this one.
 

Flamingpenguin

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I loved it, but I didn't really see the 1 up thing as revolutionary or anything. I guess it's because it was buried under all the other video game references. But hey, one thing is for sure. It's a way better explanation for the death/rebirth thing than say... the way Harry Potter ended. There was no reason he should have come back to life. I mean seriously, WTF?

I loved this movie, but only because it seemed like it had everything for me. Not revolutionary, but damn good.
 

sketch_zeppelin

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I doubt it. It was a great movie. But i don't see the extra life thing becoming a staple...especially considering how bad the movie did in the box office.
 

The Random One

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The fact that movies targeted at teenagers aren't borrowing language from games is a huge oversight. The fact that games are borrowing language from movies (indiscriminately) is a huge mistake.

Is Annie Hall that one movie that was envisioned as a three-hour whodunnit that ended up so badly that the editor suggested to Allen that he cut out the entirety of the main plot and made the movie from what would have been a romantic subplot? If so, it's already on my to-watch list (which is composed roughly half of Moviebob's suggestions anyway) and the comparison between it and Scott Pilgrim is even stronger, since one of my favourite things about the comic is that it inverts the action story paradigm by making the hero's quest a subplot and the romantic shenanigans the main plot.
 

Weaver

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JaredXE said:
Sorry Bob, I just can't STAND Annie Hall. Hell, just about all of Woody Allen's films bore me. I don't find him funny, especially when my film class used that film as an example of comedy....I didn't crack a smile the whole movie.
I agree, like all Woody Allen movies, Annie Hall is just bland, unfunny and kind of boring.