Game mechanics that need to die

BrawlMan

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Forced walking segments in games. Mainly in most of Sony's library. They add nothing to game play, all you're doing is moving the left analog forward, and there is no extra immersion. If it's that important story wise, make it a cut-scene or keep it super brief when loading a new area.
 

Siyano

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Forced walking segments in games. Mainly in most of Sony's library. They add nothing to game play, all you're doing is moving the left analog forward, and there is no extra immersion. If it's that important story wise, make it a cut-scene or keep it super brief when loading a new area.
Yes, yes!! I couldnt play RDR 2 because those part killed my fun, they serve no purpose...

1) grinding to "fake" longevity
- I have seen a lot that could fit here.
from the indie "roguelike" genre to ubisoft AAA
game that "force" you to play a lot just to unlock stuff, like for example, the cell in Dead Cell, gold in Rogue Legacy 2 or more from a recent any resource in AC Valhalla, I feel like they are just grinding.
if the game ask me to do 40 hours+ of runs just to have unlocks just because it a question of grinding rather than anything then im just going to cheat them, I dont see the fun to have access to half of a game because I dont have all the unlock, like healing potions quantity or similar things
I could also include all the "collect-a-thon" here, like the last Spiderman or AC V, just so many thing to collect that serve near 0 reason to do and exist to fake "game play"

2) RPG talent (or similar) that only give a small % upgrade, anything that say stuff like you weapon damage is 10% more, to me doesnt feel interesting, its just doesnt add real impact, and even to some degree have "no" impact. let say you deal 10 dmg to a 100 hp monster and with that 10% increase basically doesnt do anything much, you are not "killing" faster

3) "fake" difficulty to "fake" new game + or such
again basically similar to 1) but where game just add abstract random difficulty (more monster hp...) to just have added "longevity" rather than making something interesting or substantial

4) hidden information, in this day of age of where wiki spawn in less than a day to show all the information you would need in a game, what is the point? I dont want to memorize hundred of different items power (like in Binding of Isaac) or seach the random place I had to go just to find the "secret"
 
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Meximagician

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4) hidden information, in this day of age of where wiki spawn in less than a day to show all the information you would need in a game, what is the point? I dont want to memorize hundred of different items power (like in Binding of Isaac) or seach the random place I had to go just to find the "secret"
Along this line, if I need to do the same RPG tech/skill tree for multiple characters, or again in new game+, don't hide the upgrade dependencies. I don't enjoy grinding at the best of times, let alone just to find I still can't learn some skill I need for my build because I didn't learn three disparate and obscure skills hours ago.

I can almost understand when the dev wants players to have a sense of discovery around their systems the first time. But there's a difference between 'discovery' and 'being asked to go through the same unmarked maze multiple times for no particular reason.'
 
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Specter Von Baren

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Yes, yes!! I couldnt play RDR 2 because those part killed my fun, they serve no purpose...

1) grinding to "fake" longevity
- I have seen a lot that could fit here.
from the indie "roguelike" genre to ubisoft AAA
game that "force" you to play a lot just to unlock stuff, like for example, the cell in Dead Cell, gold in Rogue Legacy 2 or more from a recent any resource in AC Valhalla, I feel like they are just grinding.
if the game ask me to do 40 hours+ of runs just to have unlocks just because it a question of grinding rather than anything then im just going to cheat them, I dont see the fun to have access to half of a game because I dont have all the unlock, like healing potions quantity or similar things
I could also include all the "collect-a-thon" here, like the last Spiderman or AC V, just so many thing to collect that serve near 0 reason to do and exist to fake "game play"
The point of the unlockables in those roguelikes is to give you a goal to work toward while you're learning the game. Your first runs in these games are going to end pretty fast because you don't know what you're doing so not having everything unlocked reduces the complexity of the initial floundering attempts.

It can also help trick a player in a good way. It can make the player think that once they get a new tool that they'll be able to do better and get farther (and maybe it does) but they're also getting better from getting experience playing the game which is the real meat of why they're getting better and farther.
 

Siyano

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The point of the unlockables in those roguelikes is to give you a goal to work toward while you're learning the game. Your first runs in these games are going to end pretty fast because you don't know what you're doing so not having everything unlocked reduces the complexity of the initial floundering attempts.

It can also help trick a player in a good way. It can make the player think that once they get a new tool that they'll be able to do better and get farther (and maybe it does) but they're also getting better from getting experience playing the game which is the real meat of why they're getting better and farther.
I dont mind unlock that give say a different weapon or such, but if it just about "grinding" and doesnt have any other goal than just time invested, it is not a "fun" way to unlock to me
 
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Drathnoxis

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2) RPG talent (or similar) that only give a small % upgrade, anything that say stuff like you weapon damage is 10% more, to me doesnt feel interesting, its just doesnt add real impact, and even to some degree have "no" impact. let say you deal 10 dmg to a 100 hp monster and with that 10% increase basically doesnt do anything much, you are not "killing" faster
But imagine if you had a weapon that increased your weapon damage by 11%! You'd be killing monsters in 9 hits instead of 10 and the gameplay would be turned on its head!

Along this line, if I need to do the same RPG tech/skill tree for multiple characters, or again in new game+, don't hide the upgrade dependencies. I don't enjoy grinding at the best of times, let alone just to find I still can't learn some skill I need for my build because I didn't learn three disparate and obscure skills hours ago.

I can almost understand when the dev wants players to have a sense of discovery around their systems the first time. But there's a difference between 'discovery' and 'being asked to go through the same unmarked maze multiple times for no particular reason.'
Obviously the purpose is to test your ability to take notes. The game developers are trying to help you build skills that have real world application. Its like an ARG where if you get better at the game, you get better in real life!
 
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The last great game they ever made was Rayman Legends back in 2013. They have nothing left other than For Honor. I have no interest in that game though.
It’s also sad to see open world Ubisoft gameplay elements fester into other games.
 
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BrawlMan

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It’s also sad to see open world Ubisoft gameplay elements fester into other games.
Wolfestein:Young Blood and Halo Infinite? I'll give credit for Infinite at least looking more fun than 4 or 5. I don't have XB1 or SX, but my big bro does. If he's happy about it, than I am happy for him. Young Blood on the other hand copies Ubisoft and Wolfenstein (2009) in the worst possible manner. A reminded to those that have forgotten, but Wolfestein (09) is an open world game.
 
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Jarrito3002

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Ubisoft towers need to go
The last time I enjoyed Ubisoft towers was in Horizion Zero Dawn which is not even a Ubisoft game and eiter on purpose or by accident solved the Ubisoft Open world problem by cutting the bloat and making things interesting.

The last great game they ever made was Rayman Legends back in 2013. They have nothing left other than For Honor. I have no interest in that game though.
God I loved Legends it was my answer to Mario since I did not have a Nintendo console and overall was just a fun good time. I only give Origins the edge cause the controls were to me slightly tighter and those nymphs had no business being that thick. Some in the Ubisoft art department had a agenda and I approve.
 

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3) "fake" difficulty to "fake" new game + or such
again basically similar to 1) but where game just add abstract random difficulty (more monster hp...) to just have added "longevity" rather than making something interesting or substantial
I hate it when games' higher difficulty settings just equate to bigger bad guy numbers and smaller good guy numbers. Or worse, when difficulty settings just weight RNG against the player, or give AI advantages unavailable to players without resorting to cheat codes. That noise can just fuck all the way off. They're not making harder games, they're just making more tedious games that prioritize player statistic optimization, as opposed to novel or unorthodox strategies that promote and reward ingenuity and quick thinking.

It's 2021, behavior trees have been an integral part of game AI design for over twenty years, and still most game designers -- especially triple-A designers -- don't futz with improved AI as the core mechanic around which to build difficulty settings.

And yes indeed, that is a Very Special Fuck You to Bethesda and BioWare in particular.

The last game I played that actually felt more difficult to complete at higher difficulties, as opposed to tedious to complete at higher difficulties, was literally Halo 2. Not CE, not 3, definitely not any of the 343 games. Old, busted, my least favorite in the entire series, 2004 release Halo Two. Halo 2's Covie AI on Heroic and Legendary was just, evil.

Reach was almost there...until Bungie made the compromise of locking out higher-order functions in Covie behavior trees during large engagements in favor of group behavior trees, for the sake of performance.
 

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The last game I played that actually felt more difficult to complete at higher difficulties, as opposed to tedious to complete at higher difficulties, was literally Halo 2. Not CE, not 3, definitely not any of the 343 games. Old, busted, my least favorite in the entire series, 2004 release Halo Two. Halo 2's Covie AI on Heroic and Legendary was just, evil.

Reach was almost there...until Bungie made the compromise of locking out higher-order functions in Covie behavior trees during large engagements in favor of group behavior trees, for the sake of performance.
It's saying something when F.E.A.R, an fps from 2005, puts a majority of shooters from 7th, 8th, and 9th generation all to shame. A.I especially.

Making moves that are already unlockable and default moves locked off in the sequel(s). This message is for Capcom, Santa Monica, and Suda 51. I don't why they have a habit of doing this.

Capcom locked away Enemy Step, a move you have to unlock in DmC (2013) and DMC5. A move that was always a default you can do at the start of the each game. What's worse is that you have to unlock this move once per character, making 4 times total you have to buy a move with red orbs. God of War 4 has a simple running attack as a move you have to unlock for no reason. Something that simple should not cost skill points. No More Heroes III made Travis's charge attack a move you have to buy with skill points. That do cost you a little bit your first run on the game. His beat katana charge attacks have been one of the guy's defaults...SINCE! THE! 1ST! GAAAAMMMMEEEE!

If you're running out new moves to make or want to (claim) make the list bigger, don't remove what are a simple or default moves from previous games. They don't make your move list any expansive and only highlights the problem further or lack of newer/more moves.
 
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Eacaraxe

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Capcom locked away enemy step to move you have to unlock in DmC (2013) and DMC5...
The irony of this being, the DMC series is one of the few I'd actually qualify as actually having appreciably harder difficulty levels because SoS and DMD actually do affect enemy behavior trees...even though they also do that "buff monster health and damage, nerf player health and damage" bullshit.

Which I'm willing to forgive on account of it being DMC, and the numerical buffs and nerfs are just there to allow players to actually style on enemies. Most monsters just die too fast in lower difficulties to sustain those S+ rankings.
 

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The irony of this being, the DMC series is one of the few I'd actually qualify as actually having appreciably harder difficulty levels because SoS and DMD actually do affect enemy behavior trees...even though they also do that "buff monster health and damage, nerf player health and damage" bullshit.

Which I'm willing to forgive on account of it being DMC, and the numerical buffs and nerfs are just there to allow players to actually style on enemies. Most monsters just die too fast in lower difficulties to sustain those S+ rankings.
DMC1 and ironically, DmC, did Dante Must Die Mode the best. In the first game, most lesser demons have less than 90% health. As long as you don't let them DT, they could die pretty quickly. Even more so if you can one shot them with a critical hit. In DmC, if you hit enemies hard enough or parried their attacks, you could temporarly knock them out of Devil Trigger for a good 10-20 seconds. DMC3 did it the worst, because demons became damage sponges and they would DT automatically after killing three or more enemies per spawn. DMC4's worked similar to DMC1's, except lesser demons don't have less than 90% health. DMC5 is a close second for having similar issues and almost being exactly like 3.
 

Specter Von Baren

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I hate it when games' higher difficulty settings just equate to bigger bad guy numbers and smaller good guy numbers. Or worse, when difficulty settings just weight RNG against the player, or give AI advantages unavailable to players without resorting to cheat codes. That noise can just fuck all the way off. They're not making harder games, they're just making more tedious games that prioritize player statistic optimization, as opposed to novel or unorthodox strategies that promote and reward ingenuity and quick thinking.

It's 2021, behavior trees have been an integral part of game AI design for over twenty years, and still most game designers -- especially triple-A designers -- don't futz with improved AI as the core mechanic around which to build difficulty settings.

And yes indeed, that is a Very Special Fuck You to Bethesda and BioWare in particular.

The last game I played that actually felt more difficult to complete at higher difficulties, as opposed to tedious to complete at higher difficulties, was literally Halo 2. Not CE, not 3, definitely not any of the 343 games. Old, busted, my least favorite in the entire series, 2004 release Halo Two. Halo 2's Covie AI on Heroic and Legendary was just, evil.

Reach was almost there...until Bungie made the compromise of locking out higher-order functions in Covie behavior trees during large engagements in favor of group behavior trees, for the sake of performance.
I think there's something to be said about how a well designed game can feel very fair when it increases the difficulty through an increase in numbers though. In NEO: The World Ends With You, increasing the difficulty of fights is an actual in game mechanic for acquiring pins and while harder difficulties do just increase the numbers, a number increase makes it so you have to engage with the unique mechanics of the enemies properly and exploit their weaknesses if you want to be able to survive and get the rarer pins.

An example of number increases done poorly is something like Kingdom Hearts 2 (The game that stands out prominently in my mind for this) where hard mode only made it so enemies hit harder, but since the primary strategy in the easier difficulties was to get in their face and wail on them till they fall down, it doesn't accomplish much.

What I'm getting at, the aim of increased difficulty should be to make the player have to master the mechanics of the game in order to overcome it, how the game does this isn't the important part. That isn't to say I don't think making better AI shouldn't be a goal of game developers, but I think what's more important is getting the player to master the game's mechanics in order to overcome the higher difficulties and how they do that isn't the important part.

It's saying something when F.E.A.R, an fps from 2005, puts a majority of shooters from 7th, 8th, and 9th generation all to shame. A.I especially.

Making moves that are already unlockable and default moves locked off in the sequel(s). This message is for Capcom, Santa Monica, and Suda 51. I don't why they have a habit of doing this.

Capcom locked away Enemy Step, a move you have to unlock in DmC (2013) and DMC5. A move that was always a default you can do at the start of the each game. What's worse is that you have to unlock this move once per character, making 4 times total you have to buy a move with red orbs. God of War 4 has a simple running attack as a move you have to unlock for no reason. Something that simple should not cost skill points. No More Heroes III made Travis's charge attack a move you have to buy with skill points. That do cost you a little bit your first run on the game. His beat katana charge attacks have been one of the guy's defaults...SINCE! THE! 1ST! GAAAAMMMMEEEE!

If you're running out new moves to make or want to (claim) make the list bigger, don't remove what are a simple or default moves from previous games. They don't make your move list any expansive and only highlights the problem further or lack of newer/more moves.
And an old game I'm still impressed with even after all these years is Jet Force Gemini's drone enemies. Given the time the game was made and the hardware it was on, I'm still very impressed with the enemy AI and how it will use cover to hide from you and will scamper all over the place looking for new hiding spots.
 
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Eacaraxe

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What I'm getting at, the aim of increased difficulty should be to make the player have to master the mechanics of the game in order to overcome it, how the game does this isn't the important part. That isn't to say I don't think making better AI shouldn't be a goal of game developers, but I think what's more important is getting the player to master the game's mechanics in order to overcome the higher difficulties and how they do that isn't the important part.
I'd argue games with default difficulty settings that don't require a player engage with the game's core mechanics, and thereby simply brute force challenges, are exemplary of poor design by way of undertuned challenges. Default difficulty settings should at least require the player to develop fluency with core mechanics and navigate challenges in accordance to them. Higher difficulties are where games should be forcing players to expand their repertoire and pushing their boundaries, having learned core mechanics and how to properly navigate its challenges.

Since I already used the Bungie installments of Halo as exemplary of good game design, I'll stick with that comparison. Halo 3 and CoD4 came out within two weeks of each other.

Halo 3's Normal difficulty still required the player develop some game sense, learning how each encounter is likely to play out, how to position, which weapons are advantageous under what circumstances, and when to take cover to regenerate shields/health opposed to press an advantage. Halo 3 was by far the easiest of the original trilogy and its Normal mode was by no stretch of the imagination challenging, but it at least punished players for making mistakes, failing to learn, and failing to engage with its mechanics.

Meanwhile, largely due to poor AI and poorly-tweaked regenerating health, CoD4's Regular difficulty was...kind of a faceroll. The player didn't really have to learn anything or improve their game play to succeed.
 

Specter Von Baren

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I'd argue games with default difficulty settings that don't require a player engage with the game's core mechanics, and thereby simply brute force challenges, are exemplary of poor design by way of undertuned challenges. Default difficulty settings should at least require the player to develop fluency with core mechanics and navigate challenges in accordance to them. Higher difficulties are where games should be forcing players to expand their repertoire and pushing their boundaries, having learned core mechanics and how to properly navigate its challenges.
Difficulty is designed to work on a curve, where earlier enemies are easier to fight against than later ones, that's why it can be completely good and correct design to have enemies that don't require the player to have fully mastered the mechanics yet. Increased difficulty is meant to ramp up that curve even with earlier encounters.