That's like complaining the MCU doesn't completely follow the same comic events or that the first Spiderman films having him just naturally shoot webs instead of using machines somehow "ruins" everything by streamlining it. I found out a lady friend of mine legitimately didn't know the identity of Winter Soldier going into Captain America 2 - why pre-emptively spoil something when they can get just as much joy out of something that's existed for years but made fresh as you did when you first saw it? At the very least, discussing differences between versions AFTER the fact can at least be stimulating and enlightening.
Game of Thrones' Arya Stark "So Sick" of Book Readers Being Snobby
- Thread starter Alex Co
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Well, I'll have to annoy Maisie. If you're making a show based on a book series, wearing the name of one of the books, then you stay true to it. Otherwise it's crap.
Especially considering that most of the changes are made to attract viewers, not to improve the original material.
That being said, I cannot care less about ASoIaF. Martin dropped the ball long ago, they can do whatever they want with it.
Especially considering that most of the changes are made to attract viewers, not to improve the original material.
That being said, I cannot care less about ASoIaF. Martin dropped the ball long ago, they can do whatever they want with it.
Same here. I got into the books in 2006, which quickly became my favourite series, and was ecstatic when I learned HBO picked it up for a trailer episode, and again when they went ahead with the series. Now each episode that comes out I watch with giddy excitement, regardless of how it 'deviates'. Honestly though only thing I'll maybe complain about a little is that the battle tactics & strategy are never as sound in the show and often full of holes, but that's with the caveat that its mostly understandable since they don't have the budget to film big armies. That and I'm a fan of strategy!Monsterfurby said:
One should keep in mind though, that even among the 'book readers' there's a large segment that loudly believe some variation of:
1. The books/series really isn't that good
2. The last two books (4&5) were awful
3. GRRM should stop being lazy, wasting time doing stuff he likes (ex: fan conventions), or working on stuff no one cares about (he has a few mini novels), and hurry up and finish the books before he eats himself to death.
So really the people Maise are complaining about are probably closely linked to the same ones Martin told to **** off a little while ago, people just being dicks in general. Especially when you factor in the anonymous internet equation.
I should also add though that this series is especially prone to it. Because the way GRRM writes with multiple characters having their own points of view in multiple plotlines, people are prone to picking favourite and least favourite characters/regions/plotlines. Often times criticism comes down to a simple matter of 'I like/don't like character/plot X and there was too much/too little of X therefore it was good/bad'. This kind of criticism has been slipping into the show as well.
Nerds being elitist? Impossible!
So I guess The Witcher games are the worst things ever? And I'm wrong to fall absolutely in love with Hannibal, even though it has been hacking away at the books' plot like a psychopath itself?
*Sees Geralt avatar*nevarran said:
So I guess The Witcher games are the worst things ever? And I'm wrong to fall absolutely in love with Hannibal, even though it has been hacking away at the books' plot like a psychopath itself?
In my opinion, most of the characters in TV series are more sympathetic. When I was reading the book, Tyrion was the only character that I actually liked, the rest were either dickheads, or completely indifferent to me. I stopped reading after the second novel. I don't like Martin's style of writing. As much as I would like to know what happens next, I'm not going to put myself through more. I'll just watch the show, since it's well directed, and actors actually bring some life to the characters for me.C.S.Strowbridge said:
Incidentally, I had the same thing with Tolkien. I read Hobbit and LotR, but it was a chore. Silmarillion beat me, couldn't read it to the end. I guess it's just not my style.
How do you know if a Game of Thrones fan has read the books?
Seriously though, I don't get what the huge fuss is over whether the show deviates or not. Tons of movies and shows deviate from the books. If you've ever read anything, then this should be pretty common knowledge, so I don't get why ASoIaF fans are so much more adamant about it than everyone else (although people that read World War Z made a pretty big fuss too)
Oh, don't worry, they'll make sure that you know.
Seriously though, I don't get what the huge fuss is over whether the show deviates or not. Tons of movies and shows deviate from the books. If you've ever read anything, then this should be pretty common knowledge, so I don't get why ASoIaF fans are so much more adamant about it than everyone else (although people that read World War Z made a pretty big fuss too)
Eh, that's a matter of opinion. I've read the books and enjoy the show immensely. I haven't had any issues with any of the changes they've made. Maybe it's because I'm not what would be considered a rabid fan of the books? *shrugs unknowingly* I read them, liked the first 2, got really tired of books 3 and 4, like to the point where I was yelling at GRRM to stop writing everything from Sansa and Cercie's point of view. Seriously the two most insane and annoying characters, and we spend most of the books inside their heads? *shudder* No thank you.Zhukov said:
Haven't read the latest book yet, might get around to it eventually, though from talking to friends of mine who have read it, GRRM's still not focusing on the plot threads that I have the most interest in, so...*shrugs* might not bother.
But yeah, I like the show, and don't mind the changes, as they've been relatively minor in scope in my opinion.
Isn't The Witcher based after the original books? I've never heard them claiming that they're re-creating the books.RA92 said:
I always thought it was the author, who decided to dismiss the games, not the other way around.
I just think that claiming that you're re-creating a certain material, then changing things on the fly, just because you think you're smarter than the original author, is a dishonest thing. How is that a blanket statement?Six Ways said:
I'm maybe using the word "crap" rather freely, but a "blanket statement"?
I read the books, but I enjoyed most of the changes they implemented in the show, for example
The only decision that I don't like is the choice not to cast Strong Belwas, and the apparent cutting of Lady Stoneheart.
I don't care enough to let it spoil the show for me though, and if they pull it off (particularly the latter), then great. They are different art forms, both of which I enjoy greatly, probably to an equal extent.
I feel like GRRM actually delays things for way too long in the books, leaving chapters of nothing, which the show doesn't do.
The White Walker taking bubba Craster to the Lands of Always Winter. It added explanation to something strongly hinted at in the books
I don't care enough to let it spoil the show for me though, and if they pull it off (particularly the latter), then great. They are different art forms, both of which I enjoy greatly, probably to an equal extent.
I feel like GRRM actually delays things for way too long in the books, leaving chapters of nothing, which the show doesn't do.
You know, that's the one thing I hate about adaptions.
If an adaption is well-liked, popular, or good, then complaining about changes is being "Snobbish" or a hater
However, when shit like Dragonball Evolution or The Last Airbender roll around, everyone bashes them to hell and back at how grossly inaccurate they are.
I guess bias is only fun when you agree with it.
If an adaption is well-liked, popular, or good, then complaining about changes is being "Snobbish" or a hater
However, when shit like Dragonball Evolution or The Last Airbender roll around, everyone bashes them to hell and back at how grossly inaccurate they are.
I guess bias is only fun when you agree with it.
If the adaptation is working for someone then the changes are reasonable, even if they don't satisfy some/all of the original audience. If no one likes the adaptation then they may as well have left it like the original and hopefully pleased someone.EyeReaper said:
Basically:
New people liking it = original people liking it > no one liking it
Generally agree, although I disagree that all complaints solely come down to "it's not from the book therefore it's bad".
I'm pretty solidly with GRRM with the stance that any good adaptation pretty much requires certain story changes to be made in accordance to the change in medium. But at the same time I'd also argue that some of the changes were also poorly thought out and/or badly executed (see Jaime/Cersei-totally-not-rape-2014, also anything to do with Yara Greyjoy).
TBH though I kinda like the omission of "that scene". I felt it kinda cheapened things for "that" to happen anyway.
I'm pretty solidly with GRRM with the stance that any good adaptation pretty much requires certain story changes to be made in accordance to the change in medium. But at the same time I'd also argue that some of the changes were also poorly thought out and/or badly executed (see Jaime/Cersei-totally-not-rape-2014, also anything to do with Yara Greyjoy).
TBH though I kinda like the omission of "that scene". I felt it kinda cheapened things for "that" to happen anyway.
To clarify my position:
I've read all the books. I resent that "all the book-readers" part, I never spoil anything. I occasionally have to tell certain friends who haven't read the books to stop talking to me about their theories regarding the future of the story, as I don't want to give anything away. (I think my poker face is fairly decent, but these guys know me quite well, and better safe than sorry and all that.)
The issues raised by this teenager are twofold: smugness/feelings of superiority by people who've read the books, and purism/elitism.
Regarding the first one, I want to stress that this is hardly unique for Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones. I experience this to some degree pretty much every time I watch a film or TV-show for the first time with someone who's already seen it, or when the positions are reversed. (It's often fun to see peoples' reactions to things as a certain genre of youtube-clips has shown). It's just happens a lot regarding this franchise because of how many people watch it and how many people have read the books. I think it's just a basic and common part of human nature, and while it can be managed (in short: people can try not to be d*cks about it), I don't think it will disappear completely any time soon.
Concerning the "purism" issue, I get really annoyed with how often I'm accused of being "purist" when I dislike alterations in adaptations. For example, most times Jackson parts with Tolkien, I side with Tolkien. This is not because I believe all changes are bad, it's just that Tolkien is usually a better storyteller than Jackson. And the same is the case with Game of Thrones. The times I think it's a shame they've altered things, it's not out of principal against alterations, it's because I believe what's in the books work better. And I do enjoy some of the alterations, like the expansion of Margaery Tyrell's character, as has been mentioned earlier.
(My favourite example, however, is the Tintin film, as I grew up reading those comics, and ended up loving the film, even though the story was a blend of several storylines with many elements added and subtracted.)
Of course some people are smug and spoiler-happy, and of course some people are purist. And we all know that some people are jerks when they're online. But generalisations are hardly ever useful nor accurate, and usually only good for creating arguments. At least refer to "some people", or "this guy I know", or "some d*ck on the internet", or something along these lines, rather than "people who read the books" or "people who haven't read the books".
(Huh, didn't even realise I'd brought my soapbox before I was done...)
I've read all the books. I resent that "all the book-readers" part, I never spoil anything. I occasionally have to tell certain friends who haven't read the books to stop talking to me about their theories regarding the future of the story, as I don't want to give anything away. (I think my poker face is fairly decent, but these guys know me quite well, and better safe than sorry and all that.)
The issues raised by this teenager are twofold: smugness/feelings of superiority by people who've read the books, and purism/elitism.
Regarding the first one, I want to stress that this is hardly unique for Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones. I experience this to some degree pretty much every time I watch a film or TV-show for the first time with someone who's already seen it, or when the positions are reversed. (It's often fun to see peoples' reactions to things as a certain genre of youtube-clips has shown). It's just happens a lot regarding this franchise because of how many people watch it and how many people have read the books. I think it's just a basic and common part of human nature, and while it can be managed (in short: people can try not to be d*cks about it), I don't think it will disappear completely any time soon.
Concerning the "purism" issue, I get really annoyed with how often I'm accused of being "purist" when I dislike alterations in adaptations. For example, most times Jackson parts with Tolkien, I side with Tolkien. This is not because I believe all changes are bad, it's just that Tolkien is usually a better storyteller than Jackson. And the same is the case with Game of Thrones. The times I think it's a shame they've altered things, it's not out of principal against alterations, it's because I believe what's in the books work better. And I do enjoy some of the alterations, like the expansion of Margaery Tyrell's character, as has been mentioned earlier.
(My favourite example, however, is the Tintin film, as I grew up reading those comics, and ended up loving the film, even though the story was a blend of several storylines with many elements added and subtracted.)
Of course some people are smug and spoiler-happy, and of course some people are purist. And we all know that some people are jerks when they're online. But generalisations are hardly ever useful nor accurate, and usually only good for creating arguments. At least refer to "some people", or "this guy I know", or "some d*ck on the internet", or something along these lines, rather than "people who read the books" or "people who haven't read the books".
(Huh, didn't even realise I'd brought my soapbox before I was done...)
My wife and I read the books together and watch the show together so we both have someone to discuss spoilerific stuff with. I can see if we didn't, it would be a bit maddening.
I like the changes too. Makes it less predictable but they don't go so far off that they ruin anything.
That reveal with 'bubba' was very cool. But coincidentally one of my favorite changes was Tywin being in control of Haranhall a couple of seasons ago because we got to see this girl keep up with Charles Dance; some of the best dialogue of that season. The kids on this show can act.
I think Stoneheart will show up.Wolf In A Bear Suit said:
I like the changes too. Makes it less predictable but they don't go so far off that they ruin anything.
That reveal with 'bubba' was very cool. But coincidentally one of my favorite changes was Tywin being in control of Haranhall a couple of seasons ago because we got to see this girl keep up with Charles Dance; some of the best dialogue of that season. The kids on this show can act.
The problem there is that both Avatar and DBZ are just plain awful as standalone things anyways, which to make things worse, were based on animated series, which makes adapting that to live-action is a bit more difficult, but anyways those are awful.EyeReaper said:
The problem with this on the other hand, is that some people nitpick away at pretty much EVERYTHING that's not exactly like the books, which is pretty much done to every single thing that comes from a book, just like how the The Lord of the Rings was at first (stopped hearing about it almost right away) or Harry Potter (GOD that was unbearable), since it seems weird how some people don't grasp the concept of "the movie's not the book.
