Game of Thrones Season 4 Ep 8 "The Mountain and the Viper" Review

[bdcjacko]

The problem with this retooling of the death of Lysa Arryn, however, is that they punctured Littlefinger's aura. The one thing that defines him (aside from obsession with Catelyn Tully Stark) is that he's always, ALWAYS three moves ahead of everyone else and has everything meticulously planned. Littlefinger would never get himself in a situation where only providence ends up saving him, it's just too out of character.

That laugh of Arya's, though... priceless.

I disagree, I think Littlefinger has been playing the long game with Sansa. Didn't Littlefinger even say "bet on the people you know rather than the people you don't," or something like that? That to me was as much a reveal that he acknowledges this plan is working. Also here is my in show evidence to prove why he thought this would work:

1) In general, Lord Baelish, believes the Starks are gullible and trusting. And he doubles down on this idea by telling them "Don't trust anyone," which is a way of saying "everyone else is a liar except me, I have your interest at heart."

2) He manufactured Lysa to be a villain in Sansa's eyes and set the wheels in motion to get Lysa to ride the banana train to crazy town. Lysa doesn't need much of a push, but her gets it working easily. While I don't believe he ever says it on screen, I wouldn't doubt off camera Baelish mentions to Lysa that Sansa is the spitting image of Kat. Even if he didn't Lysa comes to that conclusion. He always seems to show Sansa extra attention when Lysa is around. And icing on the cake he choose to kiss Sansa not in a private room away from prying eyes, but in an open courtyard with lots of places for someone to watch privately. So even if Lysa didn't see it, someone most likely would and tell Lysa.

3) After manufacturing and instigating Lysa v Sansa, Baelish is able to save Sansa for the second time.

4) Not only has Petyr saved Sansa's life twice now, he has avenged Sansa's harrasser, in so much as he was the one that put the wheels in motion to have Joffery killed, and straight up pushed Lysa to her death.

5) Not only has he been filling a Protector/Avenger role for Sansa, Baelish has also been a teacher. He has been leading her to a more savvy way of dealing with people. He has been explaining how he has done this or that to reach these goals to her. Been giving her constructive criticism in how she is a bad liar. He gave her baby steps on how to pretend to be Alayne.

6) Not only that, in this world, it is common knowledge that if you are related or in the service of a traitor, you are seen as one too, Sansa knows this first hand, I don't really think I need to elaborate on that if you know the show.

For these 6 reasons, Baelish has a pretty much sure bet that Sansa has more to gain if not less to lose by siding with him. He had this planned.

 

[Rattja]

I've seen a great deal of messed up stuff in movies and series over the years, most of it has made me uncomfortable at best.
This ending however... I'm not sure if it's because I have a thing when it comes to the eyes or how brutal it actually was, but I was totally out of it a few minutes after this, just looking around the room not knowing what the hell to do.
It's not that he died, kinda saw that coming, but not like that... not like that....
In my mind I were yelling "Stop it! Oh god for fuck sake just stop it!" But of course he kept on going.

Still can't shake that image out of my head. I'll have to hand it to them though, well done, well done. I guess I'm not completely desensitized quite yet, and I suppose that's a good thing.

 

[Zen Bard]

"Hello. My name is Oberyn Martell. Ju killed my sister. Ju raped her. Prepare to die."

As much as I loved the scene, I definitely got some shades of "The Princess Bride" from Martell's taunts. And unfortunately, for me at least that detracted from the seriousness of moment.

Still it was well done. And I know I wasn't the only one foolishly hoping maybe the writers would deviate from the book with the ending.

Although the only nit I have to pick is that the actors they keep getting to play the Mountain seem to be getting smaller. Wasn't Conan Stephens 7'2" or something? Then Ian Whyte was 7'1"...and now Hapfor Julius Bjornsson is 6' 9".

Don't get me wrong...I wouldn't want to tangle with any of them. But I was really looking forward to The Red Viper fighting a freakishly huge man.

 

[Greg Tito]

I've seen a great deal of messed up stuff in movies and series over the years, most of it has made me uncomfortable at best.
This ending however... I'm not sure if it's because I have a thing when it comes to the eyes or how brutal it actually was, but I was totally out of it a few minutes after this, just looking around the room not knowing what the hell to do.
It's not that he died, kinda saw that coming, but not like that... not like that....
In my mind I were yelling "Stop it! Oh god for fuck sake just stop it!" But of course he kept on going.

Still can't shake that image out of my head. I'll have to hand it to them though, well done, well done. I guess I'm not completely desensitized quite yet, and I suppose that's a good thing.

I'm with you there. I knew it was coming, and I was still horrified beyond belief wanting it to stop.

 

[AstaresPanda]

fucking hate this show, but i love it so much...but i fucking hate it. I do love how Game of Thrones surprises me, i mean after a certain point watch so much shit over the years you can pretty much guess and see what is going to happen. But game of thrones...... hard to predict.

 

[Vivi22]

You guys are forgetting that Oberyn was surprised and thrown onto his back with no cushion onto a solid floor. He's stunned by having the wind knocked out of him. He did try to move away, but it took longer than the second it took the Mountain to grab his face and punch him in the mouth. The sequence sucked for the "good guys" sure, but it's not as implausible as you make it out to be.

Best not to pay people any mind. Few things bring out the armchair experts like a movie or TV fight scene. All of a sudden people who've never been in a fight and have probably never seen a real fight think they know everything there is about fighting.

 

[Palindromemordnilap_v1legacy]

Here's the thing I've always felt about this fight (and it was perfectly done IMO) The Red Viper has absolutely no interest in winning. All he wants is the confession out of The Mountain and he'll do anything to get it. Honestly in the books it read to me as he could win at any point and it slowly dawns that he doesn't want that.

Yeah, this was always the impression I got from Oberyn. Tyrion states in one of his chapters that, whatever the outcome of the duel, Oberyn has essentially won. And I think Oberyn knew that too. If Oberyn beats Gregor he gets to take a piece of that revenge he's been hankering after for years, and Tyrion goes free which is a smack to the face for Tywin. If Oberyn loses then the Lannisters loose any chance at an alliance with Dorne, who'll be a bit pissed off at the loss of their prince who they sent in good faith, which means Tywin has a whole new set of enemies to worry about, enemies who were never really conquered even by the Targaryens and their dragons, enemies who have the princess Myrcella as some rather nifty leverage.
Oberyn doesn't care whether he beats the Mountain or not because he gets to completely ruin Tywin's day whatever happens.

 

[Dyan]

I swear watching Game of Thrones is like some special kind of masochism. And I still don't understand why I keep watching when I know this story will never have a good outcome, it really is like watching a massive horrible trainwreck that you can't look away from.

 

[Uri]

I did not mind the visual that much. The scream though, like a pig being butchered, that hit me in the gut hard.

 

[Crimson_Dragoon]

No love for Grey Worm/Missandei? I thought it was the most adorable thing on this show since direwolf pups.

 

[Sight Unseen]

It is terribly unfortunate seeing as he was my favorite new character and the only decent fighter who isn't a complete pile of crap morally. Basically he was obvious fodder for our disgusting author. Those visuals went too far in my opinion, goddamn I didn't need to see that and I don't get squeamish at all. I'm curious as to how he died in the book and whether or not the skull pop was a new edition, I feel like it probably was.

Spoiler: spoilers for the book... but super minor ones, considering you've already seen the ep

The only big difference was the eye gouging. In the books, the mountain killed him with a single punch, crushing his head.

It is terribly unfortunate seeing as he was my favorite new character and the only decent fighter who isn't a complete pile of crap morally. Basically he was obvious fodder for our disgusting author. Those visuals went too far in my opinion, goddamn I didn't need to see that and I don't get squeamish at all. I'm curious as to how he died in the book and whether or not the skull pop was a new edition, I feel like it probably was.

Spoiler: spoilers for the book... but super minor ones, considering you've already seen the ep

The only big difference was the eye gouging. In the books, the mountain killed him with a single punch, crushing his head.

Spoiler

nope the eye gouge was there in the book too

 

[Grahav]

I've seen a great deal of messed up stuff in movies and series over the years, most of it has made me uncomfortable at best.
This ending however... I'm not sure if it's because I have a thing when it comes to the eyes or how brutal it actually was, but I was totally out of it a few minutes after this, just looking around the room not knowing what the hell to do.
It's not that he died, kinda saw that coming, but not like that... not like that....
In my mind I were yelling "Stop it! Oh god for fuck sake just stop it!" But of course he kept on going.

Still can't shake that image out of my head. I'll have to hand it to them though, well done, well done. I guess I'm not completely desensitized quite yet, and I suppose that's a good thing.

Hey Rattja. I hope this helps:

Just buddies pretending horror.

 

[Slycne]

Like one very smart poster on imdb said:

But you believe in dragons?

This is actually a sentiment that I really dislike. Fantasy is not a blank check that makes everything innately believable. A good piece of fantasy needs to craft its world, magic, dragons, etc so that you believe they could be real in that world.

 

[Slycne]

Fantasy is not a blank check that makes everything innately believable.

Of course, but what is believable and what isn't is a personal feeling. So you don't believe a gigantic man could throw a small agile guy to the ground before that other guy could react? To me, it doesn't seem implausible even IRL, much less in fantasy.

Also note that even though fighting scenes in movies/TV are very far from reality, people's expectations are based on what is commonly seen. As the best example is sword sparring. A typical medieval sword would get damaged and break very quickly yet we watch actors cling clang with swords for minutes (with necessary taunting/speech). That's pretty much impossible, but so common that we accept it as realistic. Yet, a huge guy surprising a small guy in a fight... Suddenly unrealistic?

I was talking in a more general sense, not about this fight specifically. I even attempted to debunk the idea that a dude in armor is slow and lumbering earlier in this thread. I just too often see the "well this thing has dragons and fireballs so you have no argument" come up way too much when it comes to realism and fantasy. Putting aside that someone's assessment could just be wrong, there's no helping that, I still stand by that a good writer, director, animator, etc should be striving for realism in the confines and rules of their world.

 

[Symbio Joe]

Hey Rattja. I hope this helps:

Just buddies pretending horror.

Thank you that helped me quite a lot . The last time I felt that way was when Bumblebee just tore Ravage appart in the Transformers movie. It was just a very sad feeling that something went south for a charackter I like.

 

[chikusho]

Saying Oberyn could've just blocked a punch from The Mountain, is like saying if you accidentally walked out in traffic you could just brace yourself and tackle the oncoming car off the street.

Besides, Oberyn letting go of The Mountains hand would probably get his windpipe crushed instead. And making that split second decision when you just got taken off-guard and got the wind knocked out of you by landing with your full weight flat on your back.. well, you guys are assuming too much.

Anyway, I thought the fight was absolutely brilliant.

 

[DeimosMasque]

Spoiler: Most awesome image

Just buddies pretending horror.

One: HOLY CRAP HE'S HUGE! I knew the guy who played the Mountain was big, but! HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!

And two, there is something so awesome of Prince Obyern and the Mountain just chilling together in their swim trunks.

Personally I loved this episode and the fight scene specifically. But I did have one issue with a story that's going on, the Gray Worm/Missandei stuff. I don't mind giving those characters something to do besides jut be around Dany all the time, but this romance thing just sort of hits my suspension of disbelief a bit too hard.

Gray Worm is an attractive man and I Can see Missandei being attracted to him. And I can see him liking her and feeling closer to her than he feels to others. Its just the sexual tension they seem to be giving the two that is bothering me. Especially when he said he couldn't remember being cut, that really makes me nervous that they are going to reveal he's not so they can for a romance between the two.

 

[Lupine]

Here's the thing I've always felt about this fight (and it was perfectly done IMO) The Red Viper has absolutely no interest in winning. All he wants is the confession out of The Mountain and he'll do anything to get it. Honestly in the books it read to me as he could win at any point and it slowly dawns that he doesn't want that.

Spoiler

When you take into considerations the spear is laced with poison that makes you die a very slow and agonising death. I honestly think he always intended to loose but to rile the mountain up enough that he'd confess to his crimes for the world to see. So you can easily explain any lack of ability on his part on the end of just being happy he's got his confession.

One of the things I love about this scene(and this series contains many of my favorites form the books) is he's probably the first character to die who probably knows it's going to happen but has done it to get exactly what he wants and gets it.

I agree with this 100%, except I don't believe it was just so the world could know. I haven't read the books, but this is the way I see it.

Spoiler

I think he wanted the confession because if he'd gotten the entire confession (i.e. That Tywin Lannister had been behind the order) his family could have wiped the Lannisters off the face of the earth and no one in the kingdoms could have argued. They had a queen assassinated, and that would have then made it obvious that the plan was to keep Robert from possibly marrying her to create peace between the rebels and whatever Targaryen supporters remained and instead the Lannisters had used it as a stepping stone to get Cerci in the door. Then pairing this with the rumors that none of her children were Robert's...yeah they would have had a lot of explaining to do...