With good use of facial expressions you can hint at one someone's thinking (admittedly the actor for arya isn't rather bad, but anyhow) (and tywin is not supposed to smile. Plus, with tywin constantly in her pressense arya would be constantly reminded that he's a massive threat and should be a name given) The book version of harrenhall and the events before/after were far more interesting.Xeorm said:
Game of thrones: why is it so WRONG.?
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This always bothers me when print is translated into film. The screen writers and directors always seem to want to somehow interject their own influence into the product. I view the original work as a history and the changes made as a sort of revisionism. To me it would be like if the director of Lincoln decided that it would be better if AL was actually leading the charge at Gettysburg. It's okay to leave things out, but never okay to change them in my opinion. Also I agree that the most egregious offense was Dany in Qarth.SecretNegative said:
Because Writers are the little Princesses of Moviemaking, who fancy themselves more important than anybody else in the whole process.
In the case of game of thrones you can tell that pretty well by listening to the commentary tracks on the DvD: Often times you hear writers talking about how they didn't like something in the books, so they changed it for the script.
Some of them seem to have the attitude, that writing for this series is more about promoting their craft and demonstrating their skills, rather than adapting the books to the screen.
I guess, I can understand that, since Writing is probably a tough job. But listening to that commentary track I can't shake the feeling that a lot of people on the writing stuff see Game of Thrones as a stepping stone for a bigger career... and you can't do that, by simply putting what George wrote into Dialogue-Form with Screenplay instructions.
In the case of game of thrones you can tell that pretty well by listening to the commentary tracks on the DvD: Often times you hear writers talking about how they didn't like something in the books, so they changed it for the script.
Some of them seem to have the attitude, that writing for this series is more about promoting their craft and demonstrating their skills, rather than adapting the books to the screen.
I guess, I can understand that, since Writing is probably a tough job. But listening to that commentary track I can't shake the feeling that a lot of people on the writing stuff see Game of Thrones as a stepping stone for a bigger career... and you can't do that, by simply putting what George wrote into Dialogue-Form with Screenplay instructions.
I disagree about Jon asking to go with Qhorin. In the books we were well aware by that point that Jon wanted to be a Ranger more than almost anything, but in the TV show we only got that one scene where he got pissed off because he was made a Steward instead. So the scene serves to remind the TV only audience that Jon wants to be a Ranger.
I'll put it this way: As an awesome Christmas present a few years back, my dad bought me the first five books. Then the TV show came to England... And turned out to be soft-core porn with a 75% cast of sexy teenagers and badly rendered baby wyverns which people keep calling dragons. And the whole "thirteen year old girl repeatedly raped by a warlord" thing became some kind of... sordid... fantasy... romance...? Nope. Fuck it. I'm waiting till the whole thing is over and done with. Maybe THEN I can read the Heldamn books and maybe THEN entertain thoughts of watching the show. I just want real, old school, 1980s "we can do whatever the fuck we want with this world" fantasy back. Not the war of the roses re written as an elder scrolls game! And I'm from fucking Sheffield and think Sean Bean is the don!
I dunno, I like books 4 and 5 quite a bit (I'm assuming those are the ones you have a problem with). Jamie is now one of my favourite characters because of the PoV chapters we got of him in those books. Cersei is so much more interesting now and reading about her thought process was extremely entertaining for me. Danny was frustrating but having Barristan around sort of made up for that to me. The Greyjoy PoV started off fairly uninteresting but I think they grew to be much better as the books went on.amuasyeas said:
As for killing off characters:
I highly doubt Jon is going to stay dead if the books have been foreshadowing to what I think have.
I wish they had done more with the House of the Undying. It foreshadows so many things in the books and much of that is absent in the show.
Lastly, as much as I liked Tywin and Arya's interactions, I think removing Bolton from that role was a mistake. We gained a lot of insight into his character that way and I think that's pretty important.
I'm leaning more in favor of the character developments on the show. Daenerys' arrogance and naivete seem to mesh well with her background and her experiences. She's spent most of her time with her brother, a self-absorbed idiot who filled her head with lies of how the people were awaiting the return of the Targaryens, and then with her husband, a brutal warrior from a society who rules by strength. She realizes she's the only person in the world who has birthed and raised dragons in a millenium (or whatever), and all of this before she's turned 25 or so (I'm guessing that's what her age in the show, maybe even younger). Does that sound like a likely source for wisdom and prudence? What are other teenagers like when they're given every advantage in life and believe they're super special?
Jon Snow? He's completely out of his element at the wall dealing with things he doesn't understand. Much like his father, he's been raised with a strict moral code, so the "whatever-it-takes-to-survive" attitude of the Night Watch puts him behind the curve. His moral code makes him seem naive and stupid to the necessity of the wilds.
Arya? I'm not sure why you believe she's a "weakling". She's easily the strongest of the Stark children (in a metaphorical sense). She's naive at times, as all the young characters are, but she's easily proven to be the most adaptable and the most cunning.
Jon Snow? He's completely out of his element at the wall dealing with things he doesn't understand. Much like his father, he's been raised with a strict moral code, so the "whatever-it-takes-to-survive" attitude of the Night Watch puts him behind the curve. His moral code makes him seem naive and stupid to the necessity of the wilds.
Arya? I'm not sure why you believe she's a "weakling". She's easily the strongest of the Stark children (in a metaphorical sense). She's naive at times, as all the young characters are, but she's easily proven to be the most adaptable and the most cunning.
But those characters are smarter in the books and do less stupid shit. But above all the books feel less 'cheesy'irishda said:
Jon is far more loyal and honourable in the books. He's also rather solem, a bit like ned stark. he's the outcast. Yet the tv show portrays him as the happy social butterfly with the first few episodes and an idiot for every other.
Arya is harder (and colder). Granted she's stabed a stable boy and might have attacked a few soldiers in the tv show. But in the tv show it also appears that she's forgotten everything that syrio has taught her. Shit like challenging one of the leaders of an outlaw group and getting disarmed in a small stroke make her look stupid and pathetic. She's younger in the books yet a stronger character. She's actualy my favourite in the books, yet i loath here every scene in the tv series.
I can understand daenerys being 20 or so rather than 13. But at the same time there's scenes were she's pretty much a female viserys. She's supposed to be the prince that was promised and an amazing mother to her people. We're supposed to think that she'd make a better leader than joff//rob/balon/renly/stanis/drogo/tommen/tommen's cats yet she's fucking not. I think most people agree with me on quarth.
You can't have a discussion about the myriad changes in GoT from book to screen without some wag horning in and announcing that television is a visual medium and that some changes are necessary, as if that wasn't perfectly evident to anyone with 10 working brain cells. As annoying as things like 15 guys attacking King's Landing in the penultimate battle of Season 2 is, or a Dothraki horde of 30, it would be churlish to complain. Martin's works are primarily renowned for their dense world building and massive cast of characters, and there was no way they would ever have made the translation to screen completely intact. Before the HBO series was announced I always declared the series was basically unfilmable, and while I'm still not entirely convinced by the results I think they've done a decent job with extremely difficult material.
That said, the OP is 100% correct. There are a lot of deviations are are just confusing, if not straight up irritating. Jeyne Westerling into Talissa being a major example of this. This is where we get into changing things just to change them, and quite frankly almost without exception the changes have been abysmal. With the exception of a few strong scenes, the off-book material has been cringe-inducing with its awfulness, the nadir being Dany's atrocious season 2 arc. The Qarth chapters were never strong to begin with so you can forgive them for trying, but they took something weak and made it comically bad. This is a problem with deviating from acclaimed works of fiction. You're seldom going to one-up the original author.
That said, the OP is 100% correct. There are a lot of deviations are are just confusing, if not straight up irritating. Jeyne Westerling into Talissa being a major example of this. This is where we get into changing things just to change them, and quite frankly almost without exception the changes have been abysmal. With the exception of a few strong scenes, the off-book material has been cringe-inducing with its awfulness, the nadir being Dany's atrocious season 2 arc. The Qarth chapters were never strong to begin with so you can forgive them for trying, but they took something weak and made it comically bad. This is a problem with deviating from acclaimed works of fiction. You're seldom going to one-up the original author.
That's not saying much. If you paid attention to his blog leading up to the release of the series, you'd have noticed that Martin had a major case of the fanboys going on. He seems absolutely tickled pink to see his material up on the screen, and I suspect he's not too arsed one way or the other about changes. That's fine if he approves the changes...they're his books and ultimately it's his show as well...but that doesn't make them good changes.El Danny said:
The sharpest complaints about Jackson's changes to LOTR have always been about the characters. Like Far-From-The-Book-amir. I've never heard anyone carping about the length of Gandalf's staff, although...heh...that sounds kind of bad. Go go double entendre.Nouw said:
I don't know where you are in the books, but there's been more than one sign that Daenerys has a touch of the old Targaryen madness. I'm not entirely sold on her ability to lead a nation.Innocent Flower said:
Maybe you should stop watching the show and just read the book. Whenever you create something for TV, you aren't going to be able to do it word for word. You also really shouldn't. There is nothing wrong with them taking a slightly different approach to things. If it was all word for word from the book, wouldn't that be kind of you know...boring? Since you already know everything that is going to happen. I think it is a lot better to just kind of make the show its own thing.
There is a reason I haven't gone out of my way to watch the TV series; I know those details would irritate me, far moreso than it really should.
I figured the reason for that was to keep Robb in the show. IIRC, he is gone fighting in the Westerlands (where he meets jeyne) and isn't seen for almost the entirety of book 2, and I think in the show he is among the fan favorites. Changing his wife and the circumstances surrounding it was an easy way to keep him in the show for season 2.Wadders said:
I can't really recall, but did Robb even go to the Westerlands in the show?
First, for someone who claims to like the books better, you sure as shit didn't pay atention to proper nouns.
It's Jon Snow, not John Snow.
It's Daenerys, not Danaerys.
It's Harrenhal, not Harrenhall.
It's Qarth, not Qaurth.
It's Pyat Pree, not Pratt Prie.
Second, those are petty complaints. Daenerys' story in ACoK was fucking boring. The show added some much needed excitement to the whole thing. Arya's conversations with Tywin in the show were outstanding, and would have been impossible if they followed the original story exactly.
Third, who are you to complain? George R.R. Martin is executive producer (and occasional writer) on the show. If he didn't think the changes were for the better, he'd have blocked them.
It's Jon Snow, not John Snow.
It's Daenerys, not Danaerys.
It's Harrenhal, not Harrenhall.
It's Qarth, not Qaurth.
It's Pyat Pree, not Pratt Prie.
Second, those are petty complaints. Daenerys' story in ACoK was fucking boring. The show added some much needed excitement to the whole thing. Arya's conversations with Tywin in the show were outstanding, and would have been impossible if they followed the original story exactly.
Third, who are you to complain? George R.R. Martin is executive producer (and occasional writer) on the show. If he didn't think the changes were for the better, he'd have blocked them.
I fully see where you are coming from but it is a different medium and it occurs with every book to screen adaptation.
Having finished reading the original novel of "let the right one in" and then watching the film ("let me in" for the remake) I found many sceens that i felt key had been cut or only lightly touched on.
It is the interpretation of the text from a few people. Not every sceen chosen will please all people but it is what the shows creators think is the most important that they kept. If they put in every detail it would be to long so they have to chose what they think is the most important for a newcomer rather than a seasoned reader of the books so they can get a wider audience and in my opinion they did a damn good job.
Having finished reading the original novel of "let the right one in" and then watching the film ("let me in" for the remake) I found many sceens that i felt key had been cut or only lightly touched on.
It is the interpretation of the text from a few people. Not every sceen chosen will please all people but it is what the shows creators think is the most important that they kept. If they put in every detail it would be to long so they have to chose what they think is the most important for a newcomer rather than a seasoned reader of the books so they can get a wider audience and in my opinion they did a damn good job.
Lets assume for a second they keep things word for the same as to what happens in the books, you would go mental bored out of your mind before too long. Massive fanatics would tune out as they'd know what was coming next to the letter. By having small changes (sometimes for budget admittedly) they manage to keep it fresh enough to keep you questioning enough as to what will happen.
Side note I am glad that Danerys is slowly becoming the equal judge she is meant to be instead of the spoilt brat she ain't.
Side note I am glad that Danerys is slowly becoming the equal judge she is meant to be instead of the spoilt brat she ain't.
Qarth in the books was bad. Qarth in the show was fucking atrocious. The only exciting part was sitting on the edge of one's seat to see how bad the dialogue would be in the next segment. Arya's conversations with Tywin were fine, but the original Harrenhal sequences in the books were fantastic as well, it was a sidegrade at best.Kakulukia said:
Since when does authorial approval remove all ability for viewers of the show to complain?Kakulukia said:
I thought so as well. His portrayal drove a friend of mine crazy though.Nouw said:
I have to say that i really hate the arya/tywin scenes. Not because they were not in the book, but because they make the whole chapter of Aryas journey way less realistic.Kakulukia said:
They even show us that Tywin knows that Arya is a noble from the north and yet he doesn't do anything about it, something that makes no sense. Tywin is not someone who would let a possible advantage slip through his fingers.