"Gamer Entitlement": Current state of gaming journalism and industry

[GrimHeaper]

-snippage-

All the points I was trying to get across during the whole ME summarized in a single sentence.

"The creative should never be afraid to create"

I will be using this.

True, but the creative should also show some restraint.
Not every idea you put out will be a good one even objectively.

 

[Pandabearparade]

"You don't insult the customers." Wrong. You don't insult the good, rational customers. You kick the bad, irrational ones out of your establishment and tell them to never come back. Bad customers are bad for business.

So why is the game not selling well?

 

[Lunar Templar]

I liked the new DmC. It's cartainly not a bad game by any standard. Sure, it's not quite the Devil May Cry we know and love, but it's a still a very solid title and I had a lot of fun with it.

If it was a new IP, I think it would have been the start of something great, but because of its ties to the earlier DmC titles, it's always going to be compared unfavourably to them.

I think the general attitude towards the title have been childish, but there is a lot of good arguments against it that certainly go further than 'they changed his hair colour'.

Gaime joornalizm indeed.

amen brother.

But at the same time, if capcom and Ninja Theory had spent more time on damage control and giving fans a reason to be interested and excited for the reboot instead of badmouthing them, it'd be doing better. There's a lot of potential in this reboot, shame it may go untapped

 

[Action Jack]

I don't really care one way or another about Devil May Cry, but I'm curious as to why they changed the hair. Did they have some reason to do so in order to serve the story, or did they just think Dante would look cooler that way? They had to know the change, even though it's minor in the grand scheme of things, would upset a lot of people, so there better have been a pressing need for it. Otherwise, they're just tempting fate.

Turning Metroid into an FPS caused a lot of controversy, but was a heavily-thought-out decision that turned out to be a decent bit of platforming.
Turning Fallout into an FPS caused a lot of controversy, but was a heavily-thought-out decision that turned out to be an interesting experiment in the effort of livening up RPG combat.
Turning Dante's hair black caused a lot of controversy, but...?

 

[Savagezion]

Oh good; it's a combined ME3 and DMC rant thread.

This will end well.

Reboot a franchise > fans are not interested in the reboot > tell fans to fuck off > complain when said fans don't buy it

If the fans are dedicating so much of their time and effort to badmouthing a game that's actually pretty good to the extent that they'll petition the White House to have the game pulled from the shelves?

Yes. Capcom has a right to be upset about that. That's bad press, and it'll affect their sales. More importantly, it's totally unjustified, because by all accounts the DMC reboot is actually a decent game.

Here's an example;

As you can guess, Capcom and NT's handling of the situation was an instant turn off for me and majority of other fans and as such decided not to buy the game while advising others to do the same.

Every DMC fan you met, you told not to buy DMC. For...what reason? Is it a bad game? Had you played it? Have you played it? Did you say "Don't buy this awesome new game because the publisher has shitty PR"?

To Capcom, every DMC fan you "advised" is a lost sale. And throughout all of this, you haven't said why DMC is a bad game. You're offering no reasons that justify you telling other fans that they shouldn't buy that game, and then you're conveniently forgetting the fact that you told people not to buy it when the time comes to address the reason why people didn't buy it.

I still wouldn't say it's the fans who are at fault or to blame in any regard whatsoever. Since we are talking about low sales, they are looking at it as a business venture. When marketing a product it is your job to be able to absolve any skepticism of your product. Many games have overcome this many times. What happened was they pushed through anyways thinking "We have a popular brand, it will still sell well" and ignored the word of mouth - the most potent form of advertisement. Everyone should know this rule if you have so much as attempted to run a business or work in sales. Now, if we assume they completely ignored this saying "whatever" or even "give it a chance" on the sole reasoning of faith in the "artistic merit" of the project, then they have to accept that their art was not desired by many.

Many games face the publicity of one source saying "its the best" (Like 9/10 reviews) and another source saying "worst game evar!" yet they manage to pull through it. IN the end, it doesn't matter how many people he "advised" it matters how many people Capcom convinced to buy their product as that is their responsibility. A responsibility they failed at.

 

[Pandabearparade]

No matter the reason, Ninja Theory produced a product that turned off their target audience. The fans of classic DMC aren't interested, and they clearly didn't pull in swarms of new people.

Instead of insulting your fan base, try making a product that will appeal to them next time. To be honest, if Dante's hair is that big of a fucking deal to your fans, change his hair back and get over it.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Which ones? You say that people shouldn't decide whether to buy a game before they have personal experience or "professional buying guide" with it, and I say that it's bullshit; you can and SHOULD influence your buying decisions and not just follow the 9/10 GOTY reviews with no actual content. You still haven't answered why fan criticism of a predicted bad title is somehow harmful, apart from claiming their criticism never was, and never will be your personal definition of "valid". You're saying people shouldn't be able to form expectations.

The fan criticism was harmful because it generated bad press for the game, lowering sales. It was unjustified because it motivated by a desire to see the reboot fail, not by an actual assessment of the quality of the game - which most of the fans proudly admitted to not having played.

I don't know about you, but when I ask someone's opinion of a game, I expect them to have played it first. If they haven't played it, their opinion is less valid. That's not my personal definition of "valid criticism." That definition underpins the entire industry of gaming journalism. Guy plays game => gives us opinion about game => helps us form own opinion.

In this case the fans are running around telling people not to buy a game that most of them haven't played. They're openly and proudly trying to damage the sales of the game. That's unjustified and unfair.

You can say "Oh, it's like Michael Bay rebooted Forrest Gump," and sure, I'd be a little concerned if that happened. But if the resulting movie turned out to be pretty good, are you still justified in telling people not to watch it because of Michael Bay?

There. That's an argument. You can respond to it or ignore it like my last two posts, I don't care.

 

[ninjaRiv]

To be fair, I can see why people would be pissed that something they worked hard on is getting a lot of shit but they're supposed to be delivering a satisfactory product to a loyal fanbase. It's where their fucking money comes from. It's their job. I mean, wow...

 

[Savagezion]

You can say "Oh, it's like Michael Bay rebooted Forrest Gump," and sure, I'd be a little concerned if that happened. But if the resulting movie turned out to be pretty good, are you still justified in telling people not to watch it because of Michael Bay?

Yes, because that might just be your opinion on the matter. People have stupid/wrong opinions anytime someone else disagrees with them but they are still free to express them. A company complaining that "they are expressing their opinions" as the reason why their game is failing, is ridiculous and really makes them look incompetent due to their inability to sell a product in a market with free speech. Perhaps, Capcom should be promoting their game instead of doing press releases where they blame the fans for their game doing crappy in the market.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Yes, because that might just be your opinion on the matter. People have stupid/wrong opinions anytime someone else disagrees with them but they are still free to express them. A company complaining that "they are expressing their opinions" as the reason why their game is failing, is ridiculous and really makes them look incompetent due to their inability to sell a product in a market with free speech. Perhaps, Capcom should be promoting their game instead of doing press releases where they blame the fans for their game doing crappy in the market.

A person is free to express their opinion on a matter, but there's a line between opinion and defamation. Personally I don't think what the DMC anti-fans are doing is defamatory, but they are deliberately spreading as much bad word of mouth as they can, often without having actually played the game. That hurts sales. More importantly, it does so unfairly - the people behind the outrage are doing it because they want to see the franchise fail. They're acting in bad faith.

I think Capcom has a right to get upset about unfair criticism. Especially when the criticism amounts to "Regardless of the quality of the game, we dislike it because Ninja Theory is attached to it, ostensibly because Ninja Theory make bad games," or even worse, "We don't like Dante's hair." Sure, you can voice that criticism. It's inane and self-defeating, but whatever, it's your opinion. You can start flame wars, hold boycotts and petitition the goddamn White House if you want to.

But if guys working at Capcom or NT call you out on not on your vindictive bullshit, don't turn around and say that they aren't entitled to express their own criticism of your criticism. Free speech works both ways.

 

[Dryk]

No matter the reason, Ninja Theory produced a product that turned off their target audience. The fans of classic DMC aren't interested, and they clearly didn't pull in swarms of new people.

The last few years lots of franchises have paid the price for this thinking. It's sad that developers and publishers haven't learnt their lesson yet.

 

[Windcaler]

I think the crux of the issue is most gamers have no backbone. Every country in the world has laws in place about trade and the gaming industry has been getting away with bending and outright breaking laws for a long time. Problem is the majority of gamers dont call them out on it. Why people dont stick up for their own rights is something I'll never understand. It started with CD keys, Progressed with STEAM, and now we have always online requirements for single player games. Its utterly rediculous that things have gone that far but this is what happens when consumers dont stand up for their rights and vote with their wallets

Of course when comapnies and journalists act like theyre entitled to my money Im quick to say, no you arent. Youre entitled to money when I choose to buy a product. That means you have to have business practices that I agree with and a product that I want to buy

 

[Dryk]

I for one would never change something I created because some group of people didn't like some of the things I came up with to add to my stories.

Well, technically it really wasn't his story, since the writers changed. In fact, the actual story written by the original writer was leaked, and I've seen a lot of fans say that they liked that a lot more than the one we got.

Exactly, the instant that they changed the ending because it had already leaked (never mind the fact that the new one was obviously thrown together later, lack of foreshadowing and thought etc) I take anything people say about their "artistic integrity" with a grain of salt.

 

[Savagezion]

Yes, because that might just be your opinion on the matter. People have stupid/wrong opinions anytime someone else disagrees with them but they are still free to express them. A company complaining that "they are expressing their opinions" as the reason why their game is failing, is ridiculous and really makes them look incompetent due to their inability to sell a product in a market with free speech. Perhaps, Capcom should be promoting their game instead of doing press releases where they blame the fans for their game doing crappy in the market.

A person is free to express their opinion on a matter, but there's a line between opinion and defamation. Personally I don't think what the DMC anti-fans are doing is defamatory, but they are deliberately spreading as much bad word of mouth as they can, often without having actually played the game. That hurts sales. More importantly, it does so unfairly - the people behind the outrage are doing it because they want to see the franchise fail. They're acting in bad faith.

I think Capcom has a right to get upset about unfair criticism. Especially when the criticism amounts to "Regardless of the quality of the game, we dislike it because Ninja Theory is attached to it, ostensibly because Ninja Theory make bad games," or even worse, "We don't like Dante's hair." Sure, you can voice that criticism. It's inane and self-defeating, but whatever, it's your opinion. You can start flame wars, hold boycotts and petitition the goddamn White House if you want to.

But if guys working at Capcom or NT call you out on not on your vindictive bullshit, don't turn around and say that they aren't entitled to express their own criticism of your criticism. Free speech works both ways.

That's the thing though, do you really think a guy at my work gives a shit if I think Dante's hair is stupid, or give a crap about Ninja Theory? Or whatever other reason they are saying not to buy the game? Most of this stuff is over the heads of a massive section of the action game demographic. Honestly, I have never played a DmC game because it doesn't entice me. I actually own the 2nd game because I got it for 2 bucks and always meant to check it out and have never been so much as tempted to care to put it in and try it out. However, apparently, voicing their criticisms is NOT self-defeating as it is actually serving what they want them to do - according to Capcom.

I don't for 1 second believe that people going around complaining about the hair and Ninja Theory (a dev who isn't even a blip on the radar of most gamers) are the reason the game is selling bad. The game is selling bad because no one cares because Capcom hasn't given us a reason to care. DmC is a series that drew most of it's sales from its fanbase. Each sequel only grew a little in sales which would make it a safe bet the same people were buying it plus a couple extra each release. It's fanbase was growing but was a contained fanbase. When this game was announced, that contained fanbase had a large outcry and Capcom thought it wasn't important. Now, their game is failing. I would bet it is because people like me who didn't care, still don't care - and that contained fanbase, they're pissed for whatever reason.

I only ever saw the hair thing and rolled my eyes, but I don't care. I don't care why it is a big deal, I dont care about Ninja Theory, I just don't care about DmC. All this talk about the hair, Ninja Theory, or whatever other reason doesn't deter me at all. My position is what it always was, one day I may check out the series - but it ain't today or probably even this month.

You are right that they have every right to say that their game is failing because of "unfair criticism" instead of assuming responsibility for their own failing product and trying to fix it. But usually that is the response of someone who can't take any criticism and are lashing out. The fanbase may seem to be crying (I don't see it one way or the other, I just see backlash) but they aren't "professionals", Capcom are, and Capcom are acting unprofessional; a common trend with devs these days. I get the strategy they are trying to employ by playing the victim card, but all that says to me is that they feel that holds more value then actually defending their work - and playing the victim isn't defending your work. Essentially, Capcom drew a picture and someone said "the proportion is off" then Capcom shouted "You're just being mean! You don't get it" rather than pointing out WHY they drew it that way if there is in fact a good reason. They paint the critic as "mean" and many people equate malice with "wrong".

 

[Doneeee]

I guess I'll leave my 2 cents. Both the gamers and the developers are horribly generalized by the OP which makes it really hard to have a good discussion about "entitlement" of any sort. Case in point, the rest of this thread.

 

[Zeles]

First off, let me just say thank you for writing out your opinion in a respectful, intelligent manner.

Secondly, I believe that no matter what the fan reaction is, and yes, there have been some horrible fan reactions as of late, the developers should keep an open ear and, if possible, engage in discussion with the fans. Remember during that L4D2 boycott? And how the two peoples leading it were invited to Valve's headquarters and shown proof that what they wanted was going to happen? Something like that.