Gamergate, No "Right Side." - We Should Avoid Picking Sides

[Something Amyss]

Funny story. Awhile ago I actually wanted a job in the game industry. Boy did those dreams get squashed out of me when I saw what I'd have to put up with from the community

Not too out there. A while back I wouldn't have minded writing in the industry (either actually writing games or writing game criticism).

These days, though? Yeah, I don't need my parents doxed. They have enough shit to deal with.

You could very easily fight back against harassment by compiling all the information you have on the subject of the harassment of your friend.

Awesome. I could compile information that could potentially tag an already targeted individual against their wishes to simply get away from the subject. If I'm too vague, GG says it's fake. If I'm not vague enough, I could endanger said poster's wellbeing. And, on top of both elements, it would mean dragging someone through something they don't want to be dragged through. And either way, the gamer base remains fragmented on party lines.

This sounds like a win-win scenario.

And that's ignoring the part where "fighting back" hasn't seemed to benefit anyone who's actually done it so far.

 

[Popido]

Trust me. I've seen enough to make an informed decision. There's too much bullshit in gaming for me to even think about getting a job with anything that has anything to do with it.

How many other consumer-facing (preferably internet-facing) industries have you been in, that allows you to make this "informed decision"? What was the price model like? In other words, was your content free for everyone on the internet, or was your content behind a pay wall of some sort? Was your content objective, or something subjective like a review or an opinion?

I've seen the way that people react to journalists. The sheer amount of bile that gets thrown their way. No. Fucking. Thank you.

Journalism has become a circus for gamers. They don't read what is being written. Journalist are just clowns to be mocked and fed to the lions. Gamers just want to see who is going to get fired next and ridiculated infront of the public. Its just a career suicide.

This culture goes way back into the demonic tabletop gaming of D&D and 40k. The early 2000's phase, gaming was all about spewing hate towards the industry, anyone who worked for it and the large publishers. Remember the AngryVideoGameNerd? Just had his movie made. All the videos he make are that hate spewing narrative, how everything is shit. How he fucking hates everything. The Escapist own Yahtzee is a relic from that era of hate.

 

[Erttheking]

Trust me. I've seen enough to make an informed decision. There's too much bullshit in gaming for me to even think about getting a job with anything that has anything to do with it.

How many other consumer-facing (preferably internet-facing) industries have you been in, that allows you to make this "informed decision"? What was the price model like? In other words, was your content free for everyone on the internet, or was your content behind a pay wall of some sort? Was your content objective, or something subjective like a review or an opinion?

I've seen the way that people react to journalists. The sheer amount of bile that gets thrown their way. No. Fucking. Thank you.

You didn't answer any of my questions.

I've posted stories online and wrote game reviews for my school newspaper. I had some commentary in the stories and I already got a fucking death threat over what I've written. So yeah.

 

[Popido]

I've posted stories online and wrote game reviews for my school newspaper. I had some commentary in the stories and I already got a fucking death threat over what I've written. So yeah.

To quote Poisson.

"this is videogames. this is what i get. this is unacceptable. this is not okay. terrorist. never again, you hear me? never again. this is videogames. this is your audience. to every aspiring game developer out there: don't. give up. it's not worth it. nothing is worth this. give up on your dreams. they are actually nightmares. just don't do it. RUN AWAY"

Do not even try to survive in this industry. Just give up. Its not worth it. The industry is not worth it. Don't. Just stop. They just want you to make ass of yourself. Don't even try. It's all nightmares. Get away.

 

[Something Amyss]

So you're content to just let evil an injustice propagate? You're content to just sit back and do nothing about it?

Oh, but you'll gladly bring up your anecdote in order to shame gamers whenever it's convenient for you. You're only benefiting from this "harassment" aren't you? It gives you ammo, doesn't it?

But when push comes to shove and you're tasked with actually making the gaming community a slightly better place, you reject that responsibility.

I see how it is.

If you see how it is, your strawman assessment certainly doesn't show it.

Did I mention the part where the individual doesn't want to be dragged through it? It's one thing to vaguely mention someone and another entirely to ask said person to actually participate.

If you want to make the community slightly better, maybe don't twist people's words then deride them based on that.

 

[Hap2]

If you'd like to create a new thread on the topic, I'm sure I'm not the only one who would appreciate seeing a break from the seven hundred and forty-six threads on fucking GamerGate.

I'm curious actually, why do people keep starting new threads about Gamergate?

Probably because the main thread is echo-chamber that doesn't allow for dissenting views. Why post somewhere you're going to get either shouted down for or ignored because it doesn't agree with the 'heroic underdog' narrative Gamergate likes to spin for itself. Hell, I pointed out a specific point where the thread was being hypocritical, and was slammed with strawmen arguments, people trying to claim I brought up Quinn when I showed it was a Gamergater who did without prompt from anyone else and explanations upon explanations to fit the narrative to keep painting Quinn as 'evil.'

Does that sound like a bastion of discussion to you? Frankly, it's stupidly hostile. I'm a media critic - by all means, I ought to be on Gamergate's side, but I'm not. If Gamergate wants to talk about journalistic ethics, then Gamergate needs to practice them itself. Right now, the only ethics I've seen out of Gamergate is what I expect from Fox News - spin the narrative, ignore hypocrisy and attack, attack, attack.

 

[Popido]

Does that sound like a bastion of discussion to you? Frankly, it's stupidly hostile. I'm a media critic - by all means, I ought to be on Gamergate's side, but I'm not. If Gamergate wants to talk about journalistic ethics, then Gamergate needs to practice them itself. Right now, the only ethics I've seen out of Gamergate is what I expect from Fox News - spin the narrative, ignore hypocrisy and attack, attack, attack.

What did you expect from a hate group that promotes rape and death threads? Ethics never had anything to do with it. They just want to get people fired from their jobs.

Its hate. Nothing but hate. The same juvenile hate Yahtzee promotes on this site.

 

[Popido]

Cmon, Escapist.

Choose a role and we'll dance to it.

Gaming culture is hate
Social Justice is absolute
Gaming journalism is a fucking joke

Thanks for helping us rig the game.

Not participating isn't a choice.

No matter what you do, it playes into our hands. Gaming is right now defenceless against another Jack Thompson. Questioning if virtual violence could cause real violence would then put the Misogyni arguement on risk. Keep fighting back and we'll welcome another Jack Thompsons into this arena. Let them escalate this shitstain of industry towards crash. Scare every casual from this circle with news of "death threats" and paranoia.

Let Social Justice become absolute. Why fight them when you can join them. There are no requirements to hold the banner of righteous. Did none of you ask "Where the fuck did the 4chan's grassroot movement vanish?". Remember when Zoe Quinn blamed 4chan for using hundreds of sockpuppet accounts? Poor girl pointed her finger in the wrong direction. SomethingAwful & StormFront were already in the helms of that movement.

Admit it. Gaming "journalism" is a cesspool.

 

[Something Amyss]

Probably because the main thread is echo-chamber that doesn't allow for dissenting views. Why post somewhere you're going to get either shouted down for or ignored because it doesn't agree with the 'heroic underdog' narrative Gamergate likes to spin for itself. Hell, I pointed out a specific point where the thread was being hypocritical, and was slammed with strawmen arguments, people trying to claim I brought up Quinn when I showed it was a Gamergater who did without prompt from anyone else and explanations upon explanations to fit the narrative to keep painting Quinn as 'evil.'

This is the problem when you have deeply entrenched sides (or even one "side) where they are convinced they are all righteous and pure.

My favourite is people keep bringing up the angry white male or straight white male to me, and when I address it, they're like "why are you bringing that up?"

Does that sound like a bastion of discussion to you? Frankly, it's stupidly hostile. I'm a media critic - by all means, I ought to be on Gamergate's side, but I'm not.

I would think being a critic would mean you would be on the conspiracy side. >.>

But yeah, more or less agreed. If this were about ethics and approached in an ethical, rational fashion, I'd be down with it.


But it's noooooooooooot.

 

[Pirate Of PC Master race]

Wow.
Honestly, I just don't know what I can do.

Well, you could go outside, talk to your family, read a book or something. I'd personally like to just play games til I drop(and nothing else).

Besides,even if you successfully create the third side, it is likely to be filled with those who wants to rip the other sides under your name. Now that would be truly tragic.

But in case I am wrong, you can voice your opinion on the next big discussion. I think it will be on the sexualization in games again. What a jolly fun everyone will have with that one. It will all be the same in this eternal flames of hell - Otherwise known as internet.



p.s - I think Deep Blue lamented on this.

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

 

[grassgremlin]

Wow.
Honestly, I just don't know what I can do.

Well, you could go outside, talk to your family, read a book or something. I'd personally like to just play games til I drop(and nothing else).

Besides,even if you successfully create the third side, it is likely to be filled with those who wants to rip the other sides under your name. Now that would be truly tragic.

But in case I am wrong, you can voice your opinion on the next big discussion. I think it will be on the sexualization in games again. What a jolly fun everyone will have with that one. It will all be the same in this eternal flames of hell - Otherwise known as internet.



p.s - I think Deep Blue lamented on this.

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

Thank you, I'll take that to heart.
Honestly, I'm wasting my breath.

 

[Something Amyss]

She reinforced the stereotype not to dismiss it as false, but to say that the gaming community needed to target and run the stereotypes out. Classic lynch-mob rhetoric.

Except she didn't reinforce it, did dismiss it as false, and didn't resort to any "lynch mob:" rhetoric. This is completely backwards and I suspect intentionally dishonest.

 

[grassgremlin]

What's the use for me to enter the gaming industry if this is how the gaming industry acts?

Do you mean the fans? Because from what I've seen, most of the industry itself has been decent about the whole thing.

The fandom's response has been disturbing, and if that's your worry I understand.

Funny story. Awhile ago I actually wanted a job in the game industry. Boy did those dreams get squashed out of me when I saw what I'd have to put up with from the community

Same. Yeah, that's what I mean. I'm a cartoonist. I'm currently contemplating using my skills for comics instead of focusing on video games. Or become a shadow developer. I have no name, but somehow games are made by me. I take no interviews. You only know of the games I made.

 

[RaikuFA]

There is room for Bayonetta getting a 7.5 on Polygon and 10 out of 10s from other respectable sites.

Not when the writer is giving it a bad score because of "oversexulization" yet writes for a porn site as well as a gaming news site.

 

[grassgremlin]

Cmon, Escapist.

Choose a role and we'll dance to it.

Gaming culture is hate
Social Justice is absolute
Gaming journalism is a fucking joke

Thanks for helping us rig the game.

Not participating isn't a choice.

No matter what you do, it playes into our hands. Gaming is right now defenceless against another Jack Thompson. Questioning if virtual violence could cause real violence would then put the Misogyni arguement on risk. Keep fighting back and we'll welcome another Jack Thompsons into this arena. Let them escalate this shitstain of industry towards crash. Scare every casual from this circle with news of "death threats" and paranoia.

Let Social Justice become absolute. Why fight them when you can join them. There are no requirements to hold the banner of righteous. Did none of you ask "Where the fuck did the 4chan's grassroot movement vanish?". Remember when Zoe Quinn blamed 4chan for using hundreds of sockpuppet accounts? Poor girl pointed her finger in the wrong direction. SomethingAwful & StormFront were already in the helms of that movement.

Admit it. Gaming "journalism" is a cesspool.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
I can't even tell what side you're on.
That doesn't matter. The simple matter of fact is I just don't care if Game Journalism is associated with Satanism.
I'm an atheist. I don't believe in satan.

 

[grassgremlin]

There is room for Bayonetta getting a 7.5 on Polygon and 10 out of 10s from other respectable sites.

Not when the writer is giving it a bad score because of "oversexulization" yet writes for a porn site as well as a gaming news site.

It's absolutely okay to like Bayonetta. It's okay to NOT like Bayonetta as well. See how easy that is? - Jim Sterling.

Bayo. Cleans. House. (But Polygon gonna Polygon) - Super Best Friends

 

[RaikuFA]

There is room for Bayonetta getting a 7.5 on Polygon and 10 out of 10s from other respectable sites.

Not when the writer is giving it a bad score because of "oversexulization" yet writes for a porn site as well as a gaming news site.

It's absolutely okay to like Bayonetta. It's okay to NOT like Bayonetta as well. See how easy that is? - Jim Sterling.

Bayo. Cleans. House. (But Polygon gonna Polygon) - Super Best Friends

It's more as why he did it and his history. That SBF quote does fit it though.

 

[grassgremlin]

There is room for Bayonetta getting a 7.5 on Polygon and 10 out of 10s from other respectable sites.

Not when the writer is giving it a bad score because of "oversexulization" yet writes for a porn site as well as a gaming news site.

It's absolutely okay to like Bayonetta. It's okay to NOT like Bayonetta as well. See how easy that is? - Jim Sterling.

Bayo. Cleans. House. (But Polygon gonna Polygon) - Super Best Friends

It's more as why he did it and his history. That SBF quote does fit it though.

You guys are truly obsessed with making everyone you disgree with some calculating villain out to end you hobby.

You know, I'm having trouble figuring out which side I disagree with most in this debate.
I use to make much bigger paragraphs for what I disagree with on the Anti-gg side, but now they are about half and half.

Bayonetta got rave reviews. It's one fucking score. Get over it.