GamerGate's Image Problem
- Thread starter entelechy
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Specifically they're a reference to a 4chan meme wherein Piccolo, a character from Dragon Ball Z, has anal sex with Vegeta, another character from Dragon Ball Z.entelechy said:
So not only is this an act between two men, but it's between two men in a show wherein the character receiving sex is actually an order of magnitude more powerful than the one giving it. By the show's own logic, it would be impossible for Piccolo to subdue Vegeta.
/explaining the joke
It is a reference to gay DBZ anime sex, if memory serves. Also, last I checked, Vivian was a mascot made for TFYC and represents the movement in so far as being created out of protest.Quadocky said:
Actually she did address it somewhat. She for instance said: since the vast majority of gamers playing these games are men and men tend to like sexy women and play as men it's normal the games feature sexy women and male protagonists. And she also added there are plenty of games which show women differently.AkaDad said:
And all the other points she addressed weren't strawmen, these were all arguments actually used.
The only thing that she did wrong was making it so short which means the "analysis" couldn't be anything more than very shallow.
But there is one thing that she brought up and that I think those pseudo armchair socio-psychologists need to do; go on the field and talk to gamers. Let's not forget that when you play a game, like let's say CoD, you may always have a troll or idiot but you also have 30-40 other players who say nothing in the chat or do nothing wrong. Yet the modern trend seems to be to totally ignore that vast majority and act as if that tiny minority represents "gamers". What the hell? Might as well pretend ISIS represents all muslims.
I made a reply and it was eaten...BobDobolina said:
Time for take two.
I disagree that the movement is permenantly tainted. To make that claim would be to claim that all christians are permanently tainted as baby-murderers, wife beaters or worse described in the bible itself. Or to make a generalization that all liberals are like Alex Jones or all conservatives are like Glenn beck. It is the mindset of the lazy or the dishonest to cling to that sort of thinking and I don't think they were going to be able to have their minds changed regardless what we do, so I don't think that particular subset was what the thread was abound.
as for Milo and the rest, you seem very determined to try to attack their credibility but I honestly fail to see why. They are a conservative rag with some crazy ideas, I know that much, but so what? So far the extent of your reasoning is "I don't like them" which is noted but not really worth something. Right now they are one of the few sites willing to cover the story and invest actual investigation into it. Furthermore, the gamergate thing seems to pride itself on diversity considering how many of its members used the #notyourshield tag to try to stop journalists from dismissing their identity. The movement, (regardless if you dislike the term, it is a concentrated effort towards a general goal by a good chunk of people) is made of a lot of different types of people, so I would be hesitant to try to distance myself from a political ideology simply for a "I dislike them and they hurt your credibility for it" claim. When picking between having no media representation and having less then ideal, I would at least have the less then ideal unless there was something genuinely disconcerting about it. Being a conservatively slanted news site is not enough for that warning to go on I think.
Kellee Santiago invests in Polytron and stands to gain financially from the sales of Fez in its first year.
In 2011, Kellee Santiago becomes the Jury chair of IndieCade 2011.
The Jury chair works closely together with every juror when they vote for winners.
In 2011, Fez wins 2 IndieCade awards, 1 of the being the biggest of them all.
The Jury chair's investment in Fez is disclosed to absolutely nobody
Anybody knowing about this and still claiming that everything is about Zoe Quinn is directly contributing to the image problem.
Just putting that out there.
If you are against the movement and you yourself are unwilling to move past Zoe Quinn, you're one of the reasons why it has such a bad name.
In 2011, Kellee Santiago becomes the Jury chair of IndieCade 2011.
The Jury chair works closely together with every juror when they vote for winners.
In 2011, Fez wins 2 IndieCade awards, 1 of the being the biggest of them all.
The Jury chair's investment in Fez is disclosed to absolutely nobody
Anybody knowing about this and still claiming that everything is about Zoe Quinn is directly contributing to the image problem.
Just putting that out there.
If you are against the movement and you yourself are unwilling to move past Zoe Quinn, you're one of the reasons why it has such a bad name.
It could be interpreted either way, really. I believe that the consensual sex angle makes more sense given the characters, but that's just me.entelechy said:
I thought it was some very poorly rendered porn video made gif. If that is the case though, perhaps they use the word "rape" as liberally as the porn industry does in describing videos? How many porn titles have the word "rape" in the title or description and use that to describe rough sex as opposed to non-consensual sex?entelechy said:
I'll be honest on this one, I don't know.
Many do, many do.generals3 said:
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It's my main problem with those that dismiss the entire movement due to a fringe conservative mysoginists, the vast majority of us are just regular gamers, and out of all the issues in the movement none of them has anything to do with people being conservative, socialist or liberalists. Every ideology can more or less agree on these various issues, corruption is always bad. It doesn't matter whether you're leftwing or rightwing.
The unfortunate fact is that all that journalists on various mainstream sites are afraid from speaking out due to the repercussions such as being blacklisted or fired (A Journalist from Kotaku admitted to that) means conservative talkpieces that are traditionally against those traditionally liberalistic sites will end up being the only platforms available from which to critisize them.
Once the movement gets properly going, more journalists gets fired for slipups, more of them will speak out about the corruption in the industry. The Breitbart journalist has yet to reveal the email discussions on 'Death to All Gamers' and 'Censorship'. It will be interesting to see what happens when he does, and I hope the insider-source doesn't loose her career over this.
We will overcome the stigma, the corrupt games media will pay for their mistake.. Literally, as people and ad-revenue abandon their sites. In favour of non conspiratory-non corrupt websites like http://www.escapistmagazine.com. Seriously guys, visit that site, give them attention, they deserve it!
The American revolution was basically sparked by a bunch of people throwing tea into the harbor... What sparks a movement and the movement itself are in many cases 2 very different thingsDaystar Clarion said:
There was an article about it somewhere, sure we may keep talking about her but its the other side that keeps dragging her into the spotlight. Just look what happened with @neros atricle.JoJo said:
Action: Article about secret email group between devs (no mention of anita)
Reaction: Kotaku Article "ANITA RECEIVED BOMB THREAT 6 MONTHS AGO"
When ever they run out of answers they pull up anita or zq as a shield to deflect any attacks.
My point was something that Velventian put far more eloquently, what sparked an event does not have to forever define it. also I find it interesting you say "being the dupe of" someone who;s claims have been verified on at least two accounts and not disproven on any of the rest.BobDobolina said:
The KKK has a defined goal of racial purity or some such nonsense but that goal there? That is what people are against in the KKK. Gamergate is being called something that is not its actual goal and this people are against an aspect thatdoesn't define the movement like hatred and racism actually defines the KKK, there is a difference there. Gamergate's goal is against journalistic corruption, and is being written off by people, such as yourself, for being for harassment when it is not.
As for milo, you mentioned you dislike him, you keep mentioning it, but you never actually back it up beyond your assertions that it is bad. You'll forgive me if between that and your insistence that I am "too far gone" that I largely dismiss your concerns on that part from here on.
To be honest, just look at the main thread. You'll be hard pressed to find 800 Posts about Zoe Quinn, let alone 800 posts of people 'obsessing graphically' over her, which you'd have to should you want your argument to hold water.BobDobolina said:
It's about journalistic integrity, currently it's people patting Greg Tito on the back for not censoring discussion, aswell as anticipation for the release of more of the discussion the secret email group (Once its been edited to censor personal information)
The times it becomes about Zoe Quinn is when some people ( I wont name names) comes into the thread to defend Sarkeesian/Zoe Quinn from imagined attacks. Last time they were mentioned was when the first round of emails were released and Kotaku released an article of a half year old bombthreat against a convention that Sarkeesian attended to 'again' steer discussion onto Anita and ZQ and away from them.
Kotaku and their ilk are afraid of the consequences tied to their lack of journalistic integrity, so when people want to target them they take cover behind the likes of Sarkeesian to deflect any legitimate complaints and concerns.
Let's also not forget there is some kind of self-fulfilling prophecy going on. Those who claim the majority is about Zoe/Anita have a tendency to mainly comment on those aspects and put those in the spotlight. This further reinforces the image that it is truly about them.Nikolaz72 said:
Of course, could the "censoring" be the standard deletion one sees whenever a group of angry gamers start talking about a woman who makes them mad? No, it's probably far safer to assume she frequently has sex with mods and editors and janitors and writers and advertisers, etc., etc. And that this horde of people aren't professional enough to separate their work and sex lives, so they've all been tamed by her magic vagina.Zontar said:
I have no idea why the movement has an image problem.
irishda said:
How to drag oneself for dummies
(yeah i know that post might earn me a warning but in that case its worth it...)
A couple of things I want to point out Nik. First off, there is probably a good deal of the movement that isn't posting on the Escapist. Second, the rules were laid down in that thread that talking about Quinn's personal life was not going to be acceptable at the Escapist. Pointing out that people weren't making this about Quinn here specifically doesn't really mean much when it was explicitly said that they couldn't talk about her private life.Nikolaz72 said: