GamerGate's Image Problem

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irishda

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Velventian said:
irishda said:
Velventian said:
irishda said:
Velventian said:
There was an article about it somewhere, sure we may keep talking about her but its the other side that keeps dragging her into the spotlight.
sure we may keep talking about her but its the other side that keeps dragging her into the spotlight
I'm not even going to comment. I'm just going to leave this here for the world to see.
Do all of your trousers come in smarty pants edition or do you have to turn them inside out every 2 weeks to avoid the smell?
Sure I may keep talking about you, but it's you who are dragging yourself into the spotlight.
How to drag oneself for dummies

(yeah i know that post might earn me a warning but in that case its worth it...)
I see. She imitates herself as you, talks about herself, and that's how even though you talk about her, she drags herself back into the spotlight. How did she gain these shapeshifting powers? #gamerghazi
 

Nikolaz72

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Apr 23, 2009
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Jux said:
Nikolaz72 said:
BobDobolina said:
runic knight said:
My point was something that Velventian put far more eloquently, what sparked an event does not have to forever define it.
Strictly speaking true; but it will be far more compelling if you ever reach the point where half of the so-called "movement" isn't still publicly and graphically obsessing about what an evil slut Zoe Quinn supposedly is. I personally suspect events will outrun your ever getting there.
To be honest, just look at the main thread. You'll be hard pressed to find 800 Posts about Zoe Quinn, let alone 800 posts of people 'obsessing graphically' over her, which you'd have to should you want your argument to hold water.
A couple of things I want to point out Nik. First off, there is probably a good deal of the movement that isn't posting on the Escapist. Second, the rules were laid down in that thread that talking about Quinn's personal life was not going to be acceptable at the Escapist. Pointing out that people weren't making this about Quinn here specifically doesn't really mean much when it was explicitly said that they couldn't talk about her private life.
This is the last post you're going to make me write about Quinn here. This is not about her anywhere so stop making it so.
 

Velventian

Left here for the world to see
May 17, 2013
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irishda said:
Velventian said:
irishda said:
Velventian said:
irishda said:
Velventian said:
There was an article about it somewhere, sure we may keep talking about her but its the other side that keeps dragging her into the spotlight.
sure we may keep talking about her but its the other side that keeps dragging her into the spotlight
I'm not even going to comment. I'm just going to leave this here for the world to see.
Do all of your trousers come in smarty pants edition or do you have to turn them inside out every 2 weeks to avoid the smell?
Sure I may keep talking about you, but it's you who are dragging yourself into the spotlight.
How to drag oneself for dummies

(yeah i know that post might earn me a warning but in that case its worth it...)
I see. She imitates herself as you, talks about herself, and that's how even though you talk about her, she drags herself back into the spotlight. How did she gain these shapeshifting powers? #gamerghazi
Anita is imitating me? wow thats such an honor *sniff* now that you mention it, she has been wearing the same earrings as me for the whole time, at least till the accident, since then i can´t wear them anymore,without ears its kinda difficult, nowadays i just balance them on my head because i feel to strongly connected to them to let them go...
 

irishda

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Dec 16, 2010
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Velventian said:
irishda said:
Velventian said:
How to drag oneself for dummies

(yeah i know that post might earn me a warning but in that case its worth it...)
I see. She imitates herself as you, talks about herself, and that's how even though you talk about her, she drags herself back into the spotlight. How did she gain these shapeshifting powers? #gamerghazi
Anita is imitating me? wow thats such an honor *sniff*
Well yeah, I mean how else does she get you to talk about her?
 

Velventian

Left here for the world to see
May 17, 2013
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irishda said:
Velventian said:
irishda said:
Velventian said:
How to drag oneself for dummies

(yeah i know that post might earn me a warning but in that case its worth it...)
I see. She imitates herself as you, talks about herself, and that's how even though you talk about her, she drags herself back into the spotlight. How did she gain these shapeshifting powers? #gamerghazi
Anita is imitating me? wow thats such an honor *sniff*
Well yeah, I mean how else does she get you to talk about her?
Oh my god you are right... there´s only one explanation... I AM ANITA!!! i always felt that deep down i might be someone else, thank you so much for showing me who i truly was the whole time.
Oh *sniff* i feel so much better now*sniff*
 

irishda

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Dec 16, 2010
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Nikolaz72 said:
This is the last post you're going to make me write about Quinn here. This is not about her anywhere so stop making it so.
The articles that keep getting posted as "proof" over on the big thread beg to differ with you. Also the point of THIS thread begs to differ with you. You know, since the image problem is because people are "wrongly" painting this as a misogynist, crackpot conspiracy theory thanks to Zoe's loyal army of feminazis. Those terms weren't used in this thread, but they have been elsewhere, so I lovingly inserted it here too because it just kind of fits.
 

Nikolaz72

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Apr 23, 2009
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irishda said:
Nikolaz72 said:
This is the last post you're going to make me write about Quinn here. This is not about her anywhere so stop making it so.
The articles that keep getting posted as "proof" over on the big thread beg to differ with you. Also the point of THIS thread begs to differ with you. You know, since the image problem is because people are "wrongly" painting this as a misogynist, crackpot conspiracy theory thanks to Zoe's loyal army of feminazis. Those terms weren't used in this thread, but they have been elsewhere, so I lovingly inserted it here too because it just kind of fits.
I've seen you in the big thread. It seems you also go there to inject arguments about mysoginy into what is otherwise about journalistic integrity. I ask that you please do not.

Thanks.

This is not about them, it is about the games media and many of the games media sites despicable most disgusting behavior in regards to censorship and hidden agendas.
 

Jux

Hmm
Sep 2, 2012
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Nikolaz72 said:
This is the last post you're going to make me write about Quinn here. This is not about her anywhere so stop making it so.
The majority of the movement is here, the point was made over half of it was about Quinn. The majority of the movement doesn't discuss Quinn, as such your point is moot.
'My point'? Couple of things here. First, it was Bob's point, I was just pointing out that people posting here following the rules doesn't mean they aren't talking about Quinn elsewhere. The escapist isn't the only place in question when he says that the GG people are talking about Quinn. Second, it's too late atm for me to dig through that 800 page thread to find how many individuals posted that were pro GG, and then compare that with how many people are tweeting about GG, posting about GG on other sites, and then try to speculate not only how many of you there are, but the rate that ya'll are talking about Quinn. I personally think 'half' is an inflated number, but I would still speculate it's a sizable minority.

That being said, let's get something clear here dude. I'm not making you post anything. You're choosing to post. I'm not making it about Quinn. I'm simply pointing out that a) this started about Quinn, and b) GG can't simply divorce itself from that history and needs to come to terms with it if they're serious about the whole 'integrity' thing.

I'm out for the night, have a good one.
 

irishda

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Velventian said:
Oh my god you are right... there´s only one explanation... I AM ANITA!!! i always felt that deep down i might be someone else, thank you so much for showing me who i truly was the whole time.
Oh *sniff* i feel so much better now*sniff*
It's okay. I know you were scared and angry because you were just being harassed by lots of really shitty people who keep insisting "You don't deserve it, but...". Don't worry. It'll be alright.
 

irishda

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Nikolaz72 said:
irishda said:
Nikolaz72 said:
This is the last post you're going to make me write about Quinn here. This is not about her anywhere so stop making it so.
The articles that keep getting posted as "proof" over on the big thread beg to differ with you. Also the point of THIS thread begs to differ with you. You know, since the image problem is because people are "wrongly" painting this as a misogynist, crackpot conspiracy theory thanks to Zoe's loyal army of feminazis. Those terms weren't used in this thread, but they have been elsewhere, so I lovingly inserted it here too because it just kind of fits.
I've seen you in the big thread. It seems you also go there to inject arguments about mysoginy into what is otherwise about journalistic integrity. I ask that you please do not.

Thanks.

This is not about Sarkeesian, it is about the games media and many of the games media sites despicable most disgusting behavior in regards to censorship and hidden agendas.
It's a little adorable that you personally might not think it's about Zoe, but again, the links your GG buddies keep posting, including the OP of the big thread, sure seem to talk a lot about a woman they're not about.
 

Nikolaz72

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Apr 23, 2009
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irishda said:
Nikolaz72 said:
irishda said:
Nikolaz72 said:
This is the last post you're going to make me write about Quinn here. This is not about her anywhere so stop making it so.
The articles that keep getting posted as "proof" over on the big thread beg to differ with you. Also the point of THIS thread begs to differ with you. You know, since the image problem is because people are "wrongly" painting this as a misogynist, crackpot conspiracy theory thanks to Zoe's loyal army of feminazis. Those terms weren't used in this thread, but they have been elsewhere, so I lovingly inserted it here too because it just kind of fits.
I've seen you in the big thread. It seems you also go there to inject arguments about mysoginy into what is otherwise about journalistic integrity. I ask that you please do not.

Thanks.

This is not about Sarkeesian, it is about the games media and many of the games media sites despicable most disgusting behavior in regards to censorship and hidden agendas.
It's a little adorable that you personally might not think it's about Zoe
Well.. Thanks.

However your attempts at derailing discussion by complimenting me is not going to win you many favors. Personally I'm not going to pretend that I've read all hundreds pages of the discussion, however I'm more of an escapistuser than I'm a.. Whatever it is people supporting gamergate calls themselves. I'd like to think you are aswell, so please respect our website and act with some civility when engaging in debate!

There is no need to be condescending towards me.
 

Velventian

Left here for the world to see
May 17, 2013
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irishda said:
Velventian said:
Oh my god you are right... there´s only one explanation... I AM ANITA!!! i always felt that deep down i might be someone else, thank you so much for showing me who i truly was the whole time.
Oh *sniff* i feel so much better now*sniff*
It's okay. I know you were scared and angry because you were just being harassed by lots of really shitty people who keep insisting "You don't deserve it, but...". Don't worry. It'll be alright.
Thanks to people like you i might just make it through this horrible time. I wish i could just do something so all this horrible online harassment would just stop, i don´t know something like turning off the pc, but i don´t know how!!!
Oh by the way here´s my patreon!
www.patreon.com/ifyoudontgivememoneyouraresexist
 

irishda

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Dec 16, 2010
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Nikolaz72 said:
Well.. Thanks.

However your attempts at derailing discussion by complimenting me is not going to win you many favors. Personally I'm not going to pretend that I've read all hundreds pages of the discussion, however I'm more of an escapistuser than I'm a.. Whatever it is people supporting gamergate calls themselves. I'd like to think you are aswell, so please respect our website and act with some civility when engaging in debate!

There is no need to be condescending towards me.
It's not a little adorable though that you cut out the part of my sentence that supported my claim. That's either you trying to lie to other people or lie to yourself, which hold that butter train I thought is what you WANTED to be fighting against. Now, your claim that you haven't read the discussion flies nicely in the face of your earlier quote from JUST UP THE PAGE

Nikolaz72 said:
To be honest, just look at the main thread. You'll be hard pressed to find 800 Posts about Zoe Quinn, let alone 800 posts of people 'obsessing graphically' over her, which you'd have to should you want your argument to hold water.
Bold claim for a guy who's more of an escapist user than a pro-gamergate person who hasn't read through the thread. Plus your insistence that you're not REALLY a supporter of gamergate, despite the fact that you only agree with them on everything and are willing to argue with other forum users about it, is a nice touch as well. Again, I'm not sure if you're lying to me because you think I'm an idiot, or you're lying to yourself because you don't want to believe it. Either way it betrays a lack of respect for everyone involved, and makes me wonder why I shouldn't continue acting condescending towards the pro-gamergate crowd.
 

Nikolaz72

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Apr 23, 2009
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irishda said:
I don't really take people insulting me too seriously.

Really if you want to be taken seriously you should just stay level headed and act with civility towards the people whom you wish to have a debate with. I didn't mean to insult you and I'm sorry if it came across that way.
 

NinjaDeathSlap

Leaf on the wind
Feb 20, 2011
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runic knight said:
The problem was not that she was given good press or no press, the problem was how long it took to get an actual investigation into the issue, the behavior and attitudes of many journalists in shutting down any and all conversation about possible wrongdoing and the tactical and systematic censorship of discussion of possible wrongdoing.

Yeah, he didn't write for her. Doesn't mean he couldn't have used his networking to help get her story covered about the whole wizardchan thing, among a plethora of other possible issues that would suggest conflict of interest. Sure, could be nothing at all between the 5 guys she had relationships with that promoted her career. That still doesn't excuse the complete lack of accountability or professionalism in how the gaming press handled and continues to handle the situation.

I've said it before, had they simply released a story about it, said they were investigating and went that path, they would have had egg on their face, been laughed at a little and then no one would care. But no, they had to try to shame people for daring to ask about what certainly could have been a conflict of interest (remember, since no investigation had been done at the time, no one knew). That is why gamergate formed, not because some dev of a game had sex, but because the implications raised about the credibility of the sites covering her was met with total and abject hostility.
As far as this goes, I actually agree with you. While I'm not sure I'd accuse the motives of the press of trying to silence discussion to defend their buddies in the biz, it was a shoddy and knee-jerk response, that did highlight some problems in how some game journalists had come to view their role in the industry. Also, it gave the impression to a lot of people who had been wanting to know what was what, that there was no smoke without fire, and they really should have seen that coming.

Now, that's not me saying that they should have released reports into it until they actually had something of substance to report. Otherwise, they would just have been being the game industry equivalent of TMZ or Hello! Magazine (for the UK), neither of which are paragons of the touted journalistic integrity. However, when people were asking what was happening, they should have let it known they were looking into it, rather than ignoring it and actively trying to shut down the discussion. On that much, I believe GamerGate was right to take offence and campaign for better treatment.

However, there's a problem with you saying on this thread what any of this is and isn't 'about', while gamergate remains a nebulous movement with little agreed direction and no command structure, because then anyone who also claims to represent GamerGate can come along and start spewing crap, and for it to be taken as equally representative. I mean, we have people in this thread right now still trying to hang their arguments on what a conniving, abusive ***** they believe Quinn to be, while in the same breath claiming that they are the real victims of personal attacks.

You, personally, sound like you've got a level head on your shoulders, even if I still don't agree with your stance. However, in the context of everything that is happening around what you're saying, surely you can understand what it is about GamerGate that a lot of us don't have time for, and why were unconvinced by any one person trying to tell us what this is or isn't about?

All movements in history, no matter where they came from or what they stood for, that are remembered for making any kind of real progress, did so because they had leaders. The importance of leaders is that, when someone from the outside wants to get perspective on a movement and discuss their motives/aims, be they a government, a media outlet, or an ordinary citizen like me, they have people they know they can go to who are understood as being representative of at least the major thrust of said movement, and have some tangible control over where that movement goes next. You can talk to a person. You can talk to a small group of people, but you can't talk to thousands of people at once, who's voices all carry an equal amount of weight, because they will always contradict each-other and drown each-other out, because people, even when united by something like GamerGate, remain individuals with their own perspectives and priorities.

If GamerGate can't take control of it's own voice, and make sure it's conveying one, distinct message, then people like me will continue to be left in the dark as to what you really want.
 

Akjosch

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I'm not sure GamerGate has any need for "image fixing". So we're seen as arseholes and worse? No problem for me. A lot of people I admire were major arseholes - people like Winston Churchill and George S. Patton.

Call me names. Smear me with insults. I don't give a damn, hell I might even gleefully agree to some of them, as long as I'm right.
 

Lil devils x_v1legacy

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May 17, 2011
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One thing I really have to wonder about the whole "gamer gate debacle" is why is this news or even an issue? Video games are products packaged, advertised and sold like any other product, like all products the majority of the media surrounding it is bought off, it is MEANT to be advertising and that is what it is. It is not some " lets keep this pure and honest" reviewing going on, hell with all the forum bots these days and marketers paid to only put out positive reviews on products, why would anyone think this to be a"thing" at all? People seriously think there is integrity in journalism for ANY product on the market today? Look at beauty magazines and websites, those product endorsements are paid for by the companies that make the products, those companies that make the products pay to make the magazines and websites. This goes for every product on the market, but you don't see angry mobs forming to stop " shampoo gate" or "automotive gate" because people write positive reviews for money.

I am probably as hardcore a gamer you can find, but not for a minute of my life did I think that gaming websites were not bought off and brought to me by the companies who make the games for the sole purpose of advertising those games to try and make me want to throw money at them. Why would I ever think otherwise?

Gamer gate's " Image" problem is due to a few things here a couple of which are, but not limited to:
1) It is no ones business who sleeps with who in gaming, it comes across as an unhealthy obsession when people become irate because someone slept with someone and they wrote nice things about them.

2)Did anyone really think that the vast majority of gaming sites would have even existed if it weren't for game developers paying for their existence? Of course they pay people to say good things about their products, that is how they get people to buy them, even when they make ones that are garbage. People calling for integrity in game journalism.. why would game journalism be any different than any other product journalism from lipstick, to vacuum cleaners? It is what it is. It just makes people seem gullible to think that this hasn't always been happening when it comes to product advertising, or that it will cease to happen.

EDIT: The funny thing is most people are not irate about people being paid to write positive reviews, but are irate because they used their influence to promote agendas.. how is that any worse than being paid to write positive reviews? It is unethical to push agendas, but it is ethical to be bought off by industry and write opinions you may not agree with? hmmm... Silliness
 

Verlander

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Apr 22, 2010
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The image won't improve, because people are slapping Vivian James as an avatar and going out into the wild wild web, and spewing sexist, racist nonsense.

Separate the argument about journalistic ethics and the discussion about representation in video games (and retire Vivian), and you'll be off to a good start.
 

kyp275

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Mar 27, 2012
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irishda said:
Of course, could the "censoring" be the standard deletion one sees whenever a group of angry gamers start talking about a woman who makes them mad? No, it's probably far safer to assume she frequently has sex with mods and editors and janitors and writers and advertisers, etc., etc. And that this horde of people aren't professional enough to separate their work and sex lives, so they've all been tamed by her magic vagina.

I have no idea why the movement has an image problem.
Sure, but then please do also delete all mentions and references of "news" and "journalists" from those sites and writers at the same time. It's one thing to exercise editorial discretion when choosing not to report something because of the public's interest, it's another when you start squelching legitimate discussions because you don't like how it got started.

These people have no moral high ground to preach from when they had no problem presenting allegations as facts before. FFS, actual news outlet like CNN would still use terms like "alleged" for murderers caught red-handed like the Aurora shooter, while these so-called gaming journalists didn't even pause to collect their $200 as they ran all over each other past Go to drag Brad Wardell's name through the mud based on nothing more than an allegation.

And before you even try, I don't give two ****s about who's screwing who, as far as I'm concerned those two can go out and have week-long swinger orgy - not my business, don't care.

What pissed me and many others off, is the double standard non-response across the board for the major outlets combined with the holier-than-thou, you're all basement neckbeard white misogynistic nerds lololol attitude.

But please, do tell me how that's actually true, that I'm just a misogynist nerd who hates women and want women out of gaming (oops, better go tell half of my MMO static to stop playing games), and a racist for hiding behind minorities (better go to the social security office and change my race to white, and give them the memo that Asians are officially white as of last week).

Frankly, all you have to do is read that recent email dump. People like Greg Tito, Ryan Smith, and Mike Futter acted as real journalists should. The ilks like Ben Kuchera? Not so much. If you want to act like the Fox News/MSNBC of the gaming press, at least have the courage to admit it like RPS.
 

Mr. Omega

ANTI-LIFE JUSTIFIES MY HATE!
Jul 1, 2010
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You know, I was willing to at least give the benefit of the doubt to the more sincere members. I could try to overlook the unfortunate origins. The unfortunate context surrounding their mascot. The fact that they are focusing on indies instead of the blatant problems in the AAA market. The fact that accusations of "bias" and "corruption" have been thrown around whenever a review gamers disagree with come out for years now. And I could I could even try to look beyond the financial support of Aurini, as hard as that was to overlook.

But they claim to be a movement about integrity in journalism and their primary source... is Breitbart, a site best known for its blatant breaching of ethics. That was the straw that broke the camels back. I tried to ignore it the first time, but the latest development proves that this is not a one-time thing. Got rid of any sympathy I had for them.

Gamergate is beyond saving at this point.