GamerGate's Image Problem

[Quadocky]

I don't think anti-feminism is a key issue in the least so much as anti-moral authority posturing under the guise of feminism. And it is because of that I would answer no to the second one as well. I have talked to a lot of people because of this, and it seems every time I talk to them about this, even if they rabidly hate "SJW" types, it is very easy to help them see that it is not those promoting social advocacy that are the ones they have a problem with, but rather those who abuse the causes to manipulate and manufacture outrage.

Hell, posted in the main thread, this sort of sums that up entirely.

Fun fact, the first, second and fourth feminist 'movements' all failed because they caused exactly what that guy said in that post. They acted in such a terrible manner that everyone got pissed off. Apparently that's a really bad way to gain support. Hell, if it wasn't for the extremely liberal stance because created by much of the youth in the 60s, the third feminist movement would have failed pretty damn hard too. Feminists groups are useless movements, who never help anyone, and hurt as many as they can, women the most. And whether or not there is good feminists or the majority are good, the movements always have caused more problems because exactly what that post states.

Wow. And let me guess, you don't have proof for any of this (Especially the existence of a 'fourth feminist movement')

Tell me HOW exactly feminists are pissing people off huh?

The fourth feminist movement does exist, even if its achieved nothing and gained no popularity, even if the media portrays like it has. The first feminist movement gathered no ground and pissed off a bunch of people, and hushed it up before it gained limelight. The second feminist movement took so long to gain support, they ended up becoming violent and got labeled as terrorists, destroying any impact they could ever cause, the third feminist movement got pushed ahead by the current liberal stance of the 60s, and the fourth movement has a primary demographic of entitled 14 year old girls, so has actually hit such firm resistance, it'll take a long time to get anywhere, although I highly doubt it will.

And heres the thing, no protest has ever gotten a group change. Its gathered similarly minded people, but it never actually helped anyone. The idea of it is you use the improved size from the protesting to do things that create change. Feminists never really figured this out, and the one girl who did destroyed the second feminist movement right when it was starting to gain popularity. And the thing about a protest is that it also pisses off the people you want to listen to you. If you do that in a way that actually makes life worse for them, that can cause them to give way to you. If you do it in a way that just makes you an annoying bee, they tend to react poorly and try and find better and better ways to either ignore or shut you up, and this has been true for pretty much every attempt at protesting of all time.

You just posted the same thing again but differently this time.

This is frustrating because it ignores all context of history as to how women were treated and shows to me you are more interested in making grandstanding claims about feminism when in my humble opinion you have no idea what you are talking about.

I dug through your profile a bit to get a better grasp on who you are. You seem to consider yourself 'every type of despicable human being all in one!'

You weigh yourself with too much importance. Maybe you are one kind of despicable person, but I am sure you are not all of them.

This kind of shit also bothers me. Do you consider yourself a despicable person because you are one? Or because of the things you like? I mean, you can like anything really, it doesn't make you specifically a bad person unless somehow you were breaking the law. Which in that case I wouldn't abide by it and would suggest you shift priorities in an effort to solve that problem.

 

[runic knight]

But what he is supposedly complaining about isn't actually happening. Maybe in a misconstrued superficial way in bizzaro-world but not what is actually happening.

So, you don't actually understand how these mindsets are formed then? Because you are kinda right, what he is complaining about isn't really happen, least not in a grand scheme kind of way. But it happens enough, such as in gaming media, and those small examples become proof for the underlying justification for the various -isms. You see something you think of as unfair, you grow a bias against it if you aren't careful. You see something that supports that bias, it is absorbed as justification for it. In this case, dislike for the social justice parasite crowd's manipulation of outrage and shaming of people to push whatever intent they had lead to the association to women and minorities in general. It isn't the most logical but that is sort of the various -isms in a nut shell.

 

[bazingabro]

Did you know the black dude who started not your shield was fired?

So anti-SJWs have funded a game designed to bring more women into the industry.
While SJWs have been trying to hack into TFYC, and have now caused a black guy to be fired.

Hmm.

 

[runic knight]

I don't think anti-feminism is a key issue in the least so much as anti-moral authority posturing under the guise of feminism. And it is because of that I would answer no to the second one as well. I have talked to a lot of people because of this, and it seems every time I talk to them about this, even if they rabidly hate "SJW" types, it is very easy to help them see that it is not those promoting social advocacy that are the ones they have a problem with, but rather those who abuse the causes to manipulate and manufacture outrage.

Hell, posted in the main thread, this sort of sums that up entirely.

Fun fact, the first, second and fourth feminist 'movements' all failed because they caused exactly what that guy said in that post. They acted in such a terrible manner that everyone got pissed off. Apparently that's a really bad way to gain support. Hell, if it wasn't for the extremely liberal stance because created by much of the youth in the 60s, the third feminist movement would have failed pretty damn hard too. Feminists groups are useless movements, who never help anyone, and hurt as many as they can, women the most. And whether or not there is good feminists or the majority are good, the movements always have caused more problems because exactly what that post states.

Wow. And let me guess, you don't have proof for any of this (Especially the existence of a 'fourth feminist movement')

Tell me HOW exactly feminists are pissing people off huh?

The fourth feminist movement does exist, even if its achieved nothing and gained no popularity, even if the media portrays like it has. The first feminist movement gathered no ground and pissed off a bunch of people, and hushed it up before it gained limelight. The second feminist movement took so long to gain support, they ended up becoming violent and got labeled as terrorists, destroying any impact they could ever cause, the third feminist movement got pushed ahead by the current liberal stance of the 60s, and the fourth movement has a primary demographic of entitled 14 year old girls, so has actually hit such firm resistance, it'll take a long time to get anywhere, although I highly doubt it will.

And heres the thing, no protest has ever gotten a group change. Its gathered similarly minded people, but it never actually helped anyone. The idea of it is you use the improved size from the protesting to do things that create change. Feminists never really figured this out, and the one girl who did destroyed the second feminist movement right when it was starting to gain popularity. And the thing about a protest is that it also pisses off the people you want to listen to you. If you do that in a way that actually makes life worse for them, that can cause them to give way to you. If you do it in a way that just makes you an annoying bee, they tend to react poorly and try and find better and better ways to either ignore or shut you up, and this has been true for pretty much every attempt at protesting of all time.

Not that this isn't interesting but what exactly is the overall point being made here?

Is it that gamergate has no hopes of changing public perception for being a movement of protest? I am afraid you sort of sound a little bit in the deep end of the discussion and honestly, I am not following it. Maybe time for me to sleep.

 

[aliengmr]

As an aside, and in a doomed attempt to try and bring this back to the original topic, I'm becoming of the opinion that Leigh Alexander is about to be dubbed Literally Who #3, in that it lately feels like they can't shut up about her, but might yet realize that, much like Zoe and Anita, it's problematic to their public image to be seen fixating on her, but since they can't stop themselves, they'll start using the nickname in the hopes of fooling anyone at all. Maybe I'm talking out my ass, maybe my psychic radar is acting up again, just a hunch is all.

You know, it's not good when you want people to shut up. Do you support Leigh Alexander's article "Gamers are dead" and her promise to destroy a career of a female developer?

I know you lot would really like people to shut up and not to bring this issue. I'd say when you have an influential gaming blogger like Leigh Alexander as one of the faces of gaming blogging, it's not really positive public image.

Just gonna say "Gamers are wierd-dorky-rapists" is slightly more off putting. Though Milo apologized so evidently its fine. So tolerant GG.

Would also point out that Leigh Alexander could leave tomorrow and I doubt it it would really impact anything.

If Milo left...well...Thank goodness GG is so forgiving, since that man can barely go a week without saying or doing something stupid.

 

[RexMundane]

Your second point is a pretty naked attempt to try and derail the conversation. As to your first, what evidence exactly? I mean assuming we're agreed that the bit last week where he misrepresented the SFPD in order to rile everyone up over Sarkeesian again was outright wrong of him, what else is there? In nearly a month the only thing he's "uncovered" is the mailing list, and reading the emails doesn't really support the idea of industry-wide collusion that you lot have been on about for all this time, not even if you only read the ones he cherry-picked for you. What exactly is there to bother with refuting?

Yeah, I know you prefer me and others to shut up rather than discuss or defend actions of a gaming blogger. Do you support Leigh Alexander's article "Gamers are dead" and her promise to destroy a career of a female developer? Why do you and your lot always try to ignore this?

Milo reported information from SFPD, when they gave him new information, he updated accordingly.


Ahem, no. Leaked e-mails show how gaming bloggers coordinated a first wave of articles on the same day against Gamergate. They're that bad in damage control that with their clumsy attempt they only exposed themselves.

Spoiler

Then they decided to make a letter of support and tried to hide behind game developers. But thankfully not all of game bloggers supported this idea, some even said about "the incestuous relationship between press and developers" and "It feels wrong to me. I think it feels very off to reach across the fence from journalist to subject in this way. I prefer professional distance, especially given the accusations being levied at us from outside. "

I like the signed letter of support idea. Even better if we can get some developers in on that. Anyone want to volunteer to draft something?
? Kyle Orland, Ars Technica

I'd also suggest that - if others think the letter is a good idea - we should do this entirely under the radar, organizing it through word-of-mouth and email rather than Twitter. I made the mistake earlier of publicly voicing support and in doing so drawing more attention to the issue. I'd rather not make that mistake again.
? Andrew Groen, WIRED contributor

As sympathetic as I am to the horrible harassment Zoe faced, I think this incident has raised enough questions about the incestuous relationship between press and developers already.
? Jason Schreier, Kotaku

I would prefer not to be associated with this. It feels wrong to me. I think it feels very off to reach across the fence from journalist to subject in this way. I prefer professional distance, especially given the accusations being levied at us from outside.
? Mike Futter, Game Informer

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/17/Exposed-the-secret-mailing-list-of-the-gaming-journalism-elite

Oh, uh, why hullo there, abruptly fractured conversation from 8 hours ago, how've you been?

Short response as I'm about to go to bed: I read the Breitbart article, and the referenced emails, and didn't reach anything like the same conclusion you did. And I'm not the only one, and, law of averages, we're possibly not all of us evil for failing to do so.

Also, and I didn't want to bring up Milo again, but the relevant fact is that he did misrepresent the SFPD position. The rep said she couldn't find the case, and Milo interpreted that as confirmation she never called, and went public with it as well as personal attacks without seeking further clarification. Grossly unprofessional.

As an aside, and in a doomed attempt to try and bring this back to the original topic, I'm becoming of the opinion that Leigh Alexander is about to be dubbed Literally Who #3, in that it lately feels like they can't shut up about her, but might yet realize that, much like Zoe and Anita, it's problematic to their public image to be seen fixating on her, but since they can't stop themselves, they'll start using the nickname in the hopes of fooling anyone at all. Maybe I'm talking out my ass, maybe my psychic radar is acting up again, just a hunch is all.

You know, it's not good when you want people to shut up. Do you support Leigh Alexander's article "Gamers are dead" and her promise to destroy a career of a female developer?

Spoiler

I know you lot would really like people to shut up and not to bring this issue. I'd say when you have an influential gaming blogger like Leigh Alexander as one of the faces of gaming blogging, it's not really positive public image.

See, it's this need to demonize the enemy that's unhealthy to the "movement." What kind of discussion can "me and my lot" even have with you now you're this crazy on the warpath? "Yes, I support her threatening to destroy a person's career?" And what do you even mean supporting her article? Does she have a right to her opinion? Do I need to agree with it, and with the offense you've chosen to take over it, in order to support it?

Or better yet, don't answer that. I don't really care either way but nothing you've thus far demonstrated suggests we're capable of having a reasonable discussion, treating one another as equals. I'm going to bed, it's damn-ass late here.

 

[Amakaze]

Did you know the black dude who started not your shield was fired?

So I gather. The news is fairly fresh, so I'm waiting to see if anything changes in that, but if so, that would be wrong. People shouldn't get fired for having different views.

That said, I'm not sure how it relates. Certainly a bad thing, and important, but i was trying to put aside who did what to whom to answer the OP's original question, about the image of gamer gate. Point me at any movement and you'll find idiots and, as mentioned, the internet has a third party of people willing to do stuff just to 'watch the world burn' as the quote goes. So I have no doubt it could have happened. But an individual or small group doing something doesn't prove or disprove a movement. (And for those leaping up to say that is what is happening to THEM and the association with the anti women crowd, I'll note very little in my post was about the bad behavior on either side)

Unrelated, Camel, I'm a little confused (Apologies its late, so I'll have to turn in after this post before seeing the clarification, but I'll check in tomorrow). Are you reading that tweet as a threat? As in 'I will personally make sure this person fails in this career?'. I don't know the context, but from the tweet alone, I got the usual 'I shouldn't say this, but this person really isn't good at their job' comment, which isn't good to say but is not personally threatening another person. (Hint to everyone. If you have to precede a comment with 'I shouldn't say this' or an equivalent, you probably shouldn't).

 

[bazingabro]

Did you know the black dude who started not your shield was fired?

So anti-SJWs have funded a game designed to bring more women into the industry.
While SJWs have been trying to hack into TFYC, and have now caused a black guy to be fired.

Hmm.

It's not confirmed that it was social justice warriors who made the call to his boss and got him fired. Although that is what he said about it himself in a tweet.

Not sure who else would want him fired.

 

[aliengmr]

I'll let others give the rundown on Milo, yea he's pretty much the only one, hence the tolerance he receives.

 

[bazingabro]

Did you know the black dude who started not your shield was fired?

So anti-SJWs have funded a game designed to bring more women into the industry.
While SJWs have been trying to hack into TFYC, and have now caused a black guy to be fired.

Hmm.

It's not confirmed that it was social justice warriors who made the call to his boss and got him fired. Although that is what he said about it himself in a tweet.

Not sure who else would want him fired.

Maybe he wasn't good at his job or something else. But since he did say himself that social justice warriors got him fired, maybe there is some truth in that they have. I would like to know more, before I make my mind up over it though.

I think being told that you are fired via e-mail, at night, with only a 1 week notice hints strongly towards something abnormal.

 

[Quadocky]

I don't think anti-feminism is a key issue in the least so much as anti-moral authority posturing under the guise of feminism. And it is because of that I would answer no to the second one as well. I have talked to a lot of people because of this, and it seems every time I talk to them about this, even if they rabidly hate "SJW" types, it is very easy to help them see that it is not those promoting social advocacy that are the ones they have a problem with, but rather those who abuse the causes to manipulate and manufacture outrage.

Hell, posted in the main thread, this sort of sums that up entirely.

Fun fact, the first, second and fourth feminist 'movements' all failed because they caused exactly what that guy said in that post. They acted in such a terrible manner that everyone got pissed off. Apparently that's a really bad way to gain support. Hell, if it wasn't for the extremely liberal stance because created by much of the youth in the 60s, the third feminist movement would have failed pretty damn hard too. Feminists groups are useless movements, who never help anyone, and hurt as many as they can, women the most. And whether or not there is good feminists or the majority are good, the movements always have caused more problems because exactly what that post states.

Wow. And let me guess, you don't have proof for any of this (Especially the existence of a 'fourth feminist movement')

Tell me HOW exactly feminists are pissing people off huh?

I can answer the last one from my own perspective. By telling me that I hate women, because I play video games. That one is annoying. But I am not sure that who is saying that is even a feminist. A real feminist wouldn't try to divide people, but instead try to bring them together.

Another one is that so called feminists hate men and can hold this opinion publicly, without any repercussions from society. Hating a sex makes you a sexist, not a feminist. But again, that one is not a real feminist either. I guess it's better to say that feminist impersonators are pissing people off, instead of that real feminists are doing that.

Nobody is saying that you hate women because you play video games. Who is saying this? I have yet to see any of this from anywhere.

I am too sleepy to even attempt to understand what you are getting at with your second bit.

Do you go on other gaming sites? Or do you only go to this site?

If you are too sleepy we can talk later if you wanna.

I am a freakin' news hound man. I read all the mainstream Game news websites (Kotaku, Destructoid, RPS, Escapist Magazine, Memebase sometimes etc. I don't read Polygon for some reason.) On top of that I view Countless Youtube Videos in an effort to find critical thought about video games: Errant Signal, those Critical Proximity Videos, the works by Anita Sarkessian, Super Bunny Hop.

I also love to read about critique of video game culture. Such as the articles featured on Cracked.com or forum posts on SomethingAwful.com (or those Flash Tubs by Shmorky or his old comics which are probably the most biting, scathing critique of gamer culture ever made) or those really weird animations by hotdiggydemon (Wacky Game Jokez, 4 Kidz!). OR just all kinds of articles and videos across many websites that address issues in gamer culture.

But what I am trying to get at, myself being a stereotypical white hardcore gamer with a zuuped up PC and MMORPG subscription Cannot FATHOM why gamers are so upset at anything at all. I've been reading and listening to this stuff for years, its stuff written by gamers. All these supposed 'SJWs' are probably hardcore gamers or love video games.

Though, one thing I must note: I don't use twitter, I don't 'use' youtube. (like habitually watch videos aside fomr UCTV lectures and junk).

I have yet to even see an article explicitly snarl out "All gamers are sexist!" but what I have seen is more along the lines of: "Is there a problem with sexism in video games?/Video Game culture/Video Game Industry?" and then proceed to give their own thoughts which given their arguments they tend to be 'Yes to a certain degree'

My only assumption now is that there is someone out there telling gamers that they are horrible misogynists or something for playing video games. But its not the games journalists.

 

[Alex1508]

I'll let others give the rundown on Milo, yea he's pretty much the only one, hence the tolerance he receives.

Yeah, and the harassment, abuse and doxxing attacks he is getting. Don't forget to mention that too.

People on a gaming forum were talking about wanting him fired, for investigating this story. Isn't that a bit much?

Pretty much part of the course with anyone involved in this entire mess. It's funny really how each side claims they are the one true voice of justice and yet they use the exact same tactics.

 

[BlackMageBob]

Did you know the black dude who started not your shield was fired?

So anti-SJWs have funded a game designed to bring more women into the industry.
While SJWs have been trying to hack into TFYC, and have now caused a black guy to be fired.

Hmm.

It's not confirmed that it was social justice warriors who made the call to his boss and got him fired. Although that is what he said about it himself in a tweet.

Not sure who else would want him fired.

Maybe he wasn't good at his job or something else. But since he did say himself that social justice warriors got him fired, maybe there is some truth in that they have. I would like to know more, before I make my mind up over it though.

Looking forward to digging more into that particular bit of evil later today. See who trumpets the loudest over it.

I hope it turns out to the be the middle-men, the ones who want to see everyone to burn, the Goons and the GNAA. I don't think I could handle it if the "SJW" troupe is behind this one.

 

[Alex1508]

Did you know the black dude who started not your shield was fired?

So anti-SJWs have funded a game designed to bring more women into the industry.
While SJWs have been trying to hack into TFYC, and have now caused a black guy to be fired.

Hmm.

It's not confirmed that it was social justice warriors who made the call to his boss and got him fired. Although that is what he said about it himself in a tweet.

Not sure who else would want him fired.

Maybe he wasn't good at his job or something else. But since he did say himself that social justice warriors got him fired, maybe there is some truth in that they have. I would like to know more, before I make my mind up over it though.

I think being told that you are fired via e-mail, at night, with only a 1 week notice hints strongly towards something abnormal.

This entire situation is abnormal let's be honest. As for his firing, i'm willing to bet it's all about an upper management terrified by his involvement with the #notyourshield movement and the publicity it would garner them. Since they can't seperate him from the movement he created and the fact they don't want to be associated by proxy, they just went out and terminated him as fast they could, before anyone would get wind of this.

 

[Quadocky]

I don't think anti-feminism is a key issue in the least so much as anti-moral authority posturing under the guise of feminism. And it is because of that I would answer no to the second one as well. I have talked to a lot of people because of this, and it seems every time I talk to them about this, even if they rabidly hate "SJW" types, it is very easy to help them see that it is not those promoting social advocacy that are the ones they have a problem with, but rather those who abuse the causes to manipulate and manufacture outrage.

Hell, posted in the main thread, this sort of sums that up entirely.

Fun fact, the first, second and fourth feminist 'movements' all failed because they caused exactly what that guy said in that post. They acted in such a terrible manner that everyone got pissed off. Apparently that's a really bad way to gain support. Hell, if it wasn't for the extremely liberal stance because created by much of the youth in the 60s, the third feminist movement would have failed pretty damn hard too. Feminists groups are useless movements, who never help anyone, and hurt as many as they can, women the most. And whether or not there is good feminists or the majority are good, the movements always have caused more problems because exactly what that post states.

Wow. And let me guess, you don't have proof for any of this (Especially the existence of a 'fourth feminist movement')

Tell me HOW exactly feminists are pissing people off huh?

I can answer the last one from my own perspective. By telling me that I hate women, because I play video games. That one is annoying. But I am not sure that who is saying that is even a feminist. A real feminist wouldn't try to divide people, but instead try to bring them together.

Another one is that so called feminists hate men and can hold this opinion publicly, without any repercussions from society. Hating a sex makes you a sexist, not a feminist. But again, that one is not a real feminist either. I guess it's better to say that feminist impersonators are pissing people off, instead of that real feminists are doing that.

Nobody is saying that you hate women because you play video games. Who is saying this? I have yet to see any of this from anywhere.

I am too sleepy to even attempt to understand what you are getting at with your second bit.

Do you go on other gaming sites? Or do you only go to this site?

If you are too sleepy we can talk later if you wanna.

I am a freakin' news hound man. I read all the mainstream Game news websites (Kotaku, Destructoid, RPS, Escapist Magazine, Memebase sometimes etc. I don't read Polygon for some reason.) On top of that I view Countless Youtube Videos in an effort to find critical thought about video games: Errant Signal, those Critical Proximity Videos, the works by Anita Sarkessian, Super Bunny Hop.

I also love to read about critique of video game culture. Such as the articles featured on Cracked.com or forum posts on SomethingAwful.com (or those Flash Tubs by Shmorky or his old comics which are probably the most biting, scathing critique of gamer culture ever made) or those really weird animations by hotdiggydemon (Wacky Game Jokez, 4 Kidz!). OR just all kinds of articles and videos across many websites that address issues in gamer culture.

But what I am trying to get at, myself being a stereotypical white hardcore gamer with a zuuped up PC and MMORPG subscription Cannot FATHOM why gamers are so upset at anything at all. I've been reading and listening to this stuff for years, its stuff written by gamers. All these supposed 'SJWs' are probably hardcore gamers or love video games.

Though, one thing I must note: I don't use twitter, I don't 'use' youtube. (like habitually watch videos aside fomr UCTV lectures and junk).

I have yet to even see an article explicitly snarl out "All gamers are sexist!" but what I have seen is more along the lines of: "Is there a problem with sexism in video games?/Video Game culture/Video Game Industry?" and then proceed to give their own thoughts which given their arguments they tend to be 'Yes to a certain degree'

My only assumption now is that there is someone out there telling gamers that they are horrible misogynists or something for playing video games. But its not the games journalists.

That's strange. I found at least 2 of those articles on the first page of a google search.

http://theweek.com/article/index/267333/how-to-stop-misogynists-from-terrorizing-the-world-of-gamers

http://badassdigest.com/2014/08/26/video-games-misogyny-and-terrorism-a-guide-to-assholes/

Do the sites you visit have articles about gamers raising money for charities?

If you read the titles you can easily tell they do not conflate Video Gamers as Misogynist so much as there are misogynists and creeps among gamers. Which... is true? Sometimes the misogyny and creeps gets needlessly nasty which is... true?

 

[Alex1508]

I'll let others give the rundown on Milo, yea he's pretty much the only one, hence the tolerance he receives.

Yeah, and the harassment, abuse and doxxing attacks he is getting. Don't forget to mention that too.

People on a gaming forum were talking about wanting him fired, for investigating this story. Isn't that a bit much?

Pretty much part of the course with anyone involved in this entire mess. It's funny really how each side claims they are the one true voice of justice and yet they use the exact same tactics.

Have the people on the other side of gamer game admitted that their people are doing this and apologized for it?

Your side certainly didn't to my knowledge.

 

[Mr Cwtchy]

Is it any surprise Gamergate has an image problem when the gaming media is hell-bent on making this whole thing about misogyny(which is one of the big sticking points of this debate)?

The incredibly one-sided slant is evident to anyone paying attention, and is the main reason why you get people who admit to not knowing what's going on yet come in and decry the movement anyway.


Zoe Quinn filing a false DMCA on a youtube video criticising her
Total Buscuit recieving harassment from ZQs supporters for basically saying filing false DMCAs is a bad thing to do
TFYC having their charity jam completely screwed over, which ZQ was deeply involved in
Wizardchan being falsely accused of harassment by ZQ resulting in widespread harassment and abuse by gaming news sites, only one site has since apologised(this one)
The continuous purging of all Gamergate related threads on Reddit and 4chan, shadowbans included
Various journalists behaving incredibly unprofessionally(Gamergate worse than ISIS, etc)

None of these are apparently worth at least discussing for the gaming media. Why? Because it goes against their painted narrative of 'mean misogynist gamers attack innocent female developer'. I've seen people deride gamergate for using Breitbart as a source, but they have at least acted with journalistic integrity. Which is more than can be said for Kotaku, Polygon, RPS, Gamasutra and the rest of their ilk.

Point being, Gamergate won't solve its image problem until gaming journalists start doing their fucking jobs instead of acting like glorified bloggers with a social agenda.

 

[Quadocky]

I don't think anti-feminism is a key issue in the least so much as anti-moral authority posturing under the guise of feminism. And it is because of that I would answer no to the second one as well. I have talked to a lot of people because of this, and it seems every time I talk to them about this, even if they rabidly hate "SJW" types, it is very easy to help them see that it is not those promoting social advocacy that are the ones they have a problem with, but rather those who abuse the causes to manipulate and manufacture outrage.

Hell, posted in the main thread, this sort of sums that up entirely.

Fun fact, the first, second and fourth feminist 'movements' all failed because they caused exactly what that guy said in that post. They acted in such a terrible manner that everyone got pissed off. Apparently that's a really bad way to gain support. Hell, if it wasn't for the extremely liberal stance because created by much of the youth in the 60s, the third feminist movement would have failed pretty damn hard too. Feminists groups are useless movements, who never help anyone, and hurt as many as they can, women the most. And whether or not there is good feminists or the majority are good, the movements always have caused more problems because exactly what that post states.

Wow. And let me guess, you don't have proof for any of this (Especially the existence of a 'fourth feminist movement')

Tell me HOW exactly feminists are pissing people off huh?

I can answer the last one from my own perspective. By telling me that I hate women, because I play video games. That one is annoying. But I am not sure that who is saying that is even a feminist. A real feminist wouldn't try to divide people, but instead try to bring them together.

Another one is that so called feminists hate men and can hold this opinion publicly, without any repercussions from society. Hating a sex makes you a sexist, not a feminist. But again, that one is not a real feminist either. I guess it's better to say that feminist impersonators are pissing people off, instead of that real feminists are doing that.

Nobody is saying that you hate women because you play video games. Who is saying this? I have yet to see any of this from anywhere.

I am too sleepy to even attempt to understand what you are getting at with your second bit.

Do you go on other gaming sites? Or do you only go to this site?

If you are too sleepy we can talk later if you wanna.

I am a freakin' news hound man. I read all the mainstream Game news websites (Kotaku, Destructoid, RPS, Escapist Magazine, Memebase sometimes etc. I don't read Polygon for some reason.) On top of that I view Countless Youtube Videos in an effort to find critical thought about video games: Errant Signal, those Critical Proximity Videos, the works by Anita Sarkessian, Super Bunny Hop.

I also love to read about critique of video game culture. Such as the articles featured on Cracked.com or forum posts on SomethingAwful.com (or those Flash Tubs by Shmorky or his old comics which are probably the most biting, scathing critique of gamer culture ever made) or those really weird animations by hotdiggydemon (Wacky Game Jokez, 4 Kidz!). OR just all kinds of articles and videos across many websites that address issues in gamer culture.

But what I am trying to get at, myself being a stereotypical white hardcore gamer with a zuuped up PC and MMORPG subscription Cannot FATHOM why gamers are so upset at anything at all. I've been reading and listening to this stuff for years, its stuff written by gamers. All these supposed 'SJWs' are probably hardcore gamers or love video games.

Though, one thing I must note: I don't use twitter, I don't 'use' youtube. (like habitually watch videos aside fomr UCTV lectures and junk).

I have yet to even see an article explicitly snarl out "All gamers are sexist!" but what I have seen is more along the lines of: "Is there a problem with sexism in video games?/Video Game culture/Video Game Industry?" and then proceed to give their own thoughts which given their arguments they tend to be 'Yes to a certain degree'

My only assumption now is that there is someone out there telling gamers that they are horrible misogynists or something for playing video games. But its not the games journalists.

That's strange. I found at least 2 of those articles on the first page of a google search.

http://theweek.com/article/index/267333/how-to-stop-misogynists-from-terrorizing-the-world-of-gamers

http://badassdigest.com/2014/08/26/video-games-misogyny-and-terrorism-a-guide-to-assholes/

Do the sites you visit have articles about gamers raising money for charities?

If you read the titles you can easily tell they do not conflate Video Gamers as Misogynist so much as there are misogynsts and creeps among gamers.

If you read the articles, you can tell that they do call gamers woman haters.




Not sure if you meant to, but I think you might have missed these questions I asked. If you would be so kind to give a response please.

Didn't someone tried to shut down the fine young capitalists' charity project that was meant to get more women into gaming?

Do the sites you visit have articles about gamers raising money for charities?

About the Charities: yes, Kotaku regularly runs articles about the speedruns for charity thing. Its how I even found out about it.

The Fine Young Capitalists is a not-for-profit who's goal was to basically have a group of women create a game but there is a bit more too it than that. I recognize they had a kerfluffle with Zoe Quinn for some reason but from what I read, their failure was mostly on their own part and attempted to blame Zoe for their bad stigma. The donation page was vandalized after 4chan donated a lot but that was obviously the work of 3rd party trolls from behind the scenes in an attempt to .... well, troll.

I think there is an argument to be made that there is a sort of excessive strain of women hating in gamer culture. But that could be more due to how popular gaming is among many different people. In no way however are any of these articles saying anything close to 'ALL gamers are sexists/Misogynists'

 

[Alex1508]

I'll let others give the rundown on Milo, yea he's pretty much the only one, hence the tolerance he receives.

Yeah, and the harassment, abuse and doxxing attacks he is getting. Don't forget to mention that too.

People on a gaming forum were talking about wanting him fired, for investigating this story. Isn't that a bit much?

Pretty much part of the course with anyone involved in this entire mess. It's funny really how each side claims they are the one true voice of justice and yet they use the exact same tactics.

Have the people on the other side of gamer game admitted that their people are doing this and apologized for it?

Your side certainly didn't to my knowledge.

Wasn't there a petition from the gamers side of things to stop all harassment?

Here it is.

http://www.change.org/p/the-gaming-industry-please-stop-the-hate

That's some acknowledgement at least. I signed that myself too.

Yeah that's a very nice thing to do and i will sign it myself but ultimately if this movemnt wants to paint the other side by the actions of their extremists i think it's a fair thing to do the same. Let's be honest here when the ppl who started the whole thing basically act like this http://puu.sh/boAEC/f072f259b6.txt and yes i read all of it.


Aug 25 07.18.18 Any chance we can get Zoe to commit suicide?
Aug 25 07.18.29 if we can get more daming evidence
Aug 25 07.18.29 I think the [doxxing info removed by DF] is a good shot.
Aug 25 07.18.33 like her fucking a train of lack dudes ?
Aug 25 07.18.39 fuck off Logan
Aug 25 07.18.39 black
Aug 25 07.18.51 Nah 21st century doing a train is so 90s. ?
Aug 25 07.18.59 If she commits suicide we lose everything ?
Aug 25 07.20.34 If you can?t see how driving Zoe to suicide would fuck this entire thing up then you?re a fucking idiot
Aug 25 07.20.41 Imagine the kotaku article ?
Aug 25 07.20.48 PaperDinosaur is right
Aug 25 07.20.51 not the right PR play


not the right PR play.....

 

[themilo504]

I think a large amount of the problems that gamergate faces is that gamergate doesn't actually exist, this is not some grand coalition of people united against a common opponent, this is a bunch of people that should not be on the same side of any issue, united pretty much only by a hashtag.