Games Workshop Profits Down 24%, CEO Happy

[Jamieson 90]

Of all GW's games Necromunda was the cheapest and by far the best. Unlike Warhammer or 40k all you needed was a gang of 10-14 men, possibly up to 20 if you wanted a fully converted gang so you didn't have to worry about weapon restrictions. Unfortunately, like a lot of GW's specialist games, Necromunda was phased out years ago and you can't even buy the models on their special mail order service since they don't even make them anymore.

You can still buy the old lead models off eBay though; you can get yourself a gang of 8-12 men for around £50 which is still way cheaper then what you'll pay for Warhammer or 40k models. I've not played it for years but I'm currently in the process of doing up a Goliath gang. My latest project has been to work on the heavies.

Spoiler

 

[vallorn]

Let me tell you the "One man store" thing is a death sentence in the long run. It's not sustainable You can't expect to have the level of play and sales in a store with one man, never-mind everything else that needs doing.

Here's what games workshop NEEDS to do to survive:

Make your products available in more locations: They have a horrible history with third party retailers, their policies in that era are dumfounding. Even though their profits are in freefall they still want to act like they have this almighty high-ground. They need to get their products/ organized play into more locations. I think a good example is how Wizards does their distribution: Hundreds of collectable shops, comic book stores, hobby shops and even mainstream retailers.

Stop price gouging Once 3D printing comes into full swing it's over for games workshop. It's just over. Their only recourse i can see is making their products FAR more affordable. The prices we see for models is just ludicrous at the moment and the built-in power-keep makes them obsolete very fast. They are keeping their own game hostage and eventually people will stop caring enough to pay.

Start attracting new and younger fans You know what happens when you make your products so expensive and so hared to find that only enthusiasts will buy them? You stop new people coming on stream. I don't play Warhammer but from people who do the trend seems to be that the audience is older and older. If you stop attracting new fans your game will just die.

Yeah, a big part of the games workshop store's successes is from the staff helping new people get into the hobby with starter games and painting lessons and the like. A one man store policy means they are now full time salespeople and can't perform the extra duties that bring new people into the hobby.

The price gouging, insane 'throw the lawyers at them' attitude and their hyper aggressive attitude to third party stores just needs to stop. They don't have a monopoly on the market anymore and people can and do just walk away to other systems or fall out of the hobby altogether like myself, I stopped playing 40k when I got priced out and because of the power creep they use to try and make everyone buy the new shiny models my army was no longer viable.

But the prices are the worst, they make it so hard for people to get into the hobby by requiring this massive upfront cost of a big rulebook, army book and enough models to start an army which runs you easily over 100 pounds the last time I checked. oh and they charge the same for the rulebooks every 4 years so you constantly have to be able to put down that 60 pound rulebook every 4 years and throw away the last 60 pounds you spent. It's very, very money draining and kids which are their target audience can't afford any of it. (Remember when they had single figures you could buy for a couple of pounds which were perfectly priced for a kid who had some pocket money?)

 

[Zykon TheLich_v1legacy]

You can still buy the old lead models off eBay though; you can get yourself a gang of 8-12 men for around £50 which is still way cheaper then what you'll pay for Warhammer or 40k models.

Is that a typo? 8-12 dudes for £50 is in no way cheaper than Warhammer or 40K. Even their super "how the fuck can they charge that?" Vanguard veterans are "only" the same price. Hell, Necromunda weren't even that much new when they were still around last year.

You should probably only be paying between £10-20 for a squad of 8-10 men, depending on condition etc, unless you are going for specific in demand OOP models, but in that case you will probably be paying similar prices to new, or sometimes much more.

But the prices are the worst, they make it so hard for people to get into the hobby by requiring this massive upfront cost of a big rulebook, army book and enough models to start an army which runs you easily over 100 pounds the last time I checked.

It's not actually that expensive to get into for little Timmy in off the street. Starter set is £65, comes with the rules, scenario booklet, dice, Templates and 2 armies (48 models). Initially it looks pretty reasonable, compared to say Warmachine which is £75 and only gives you 17 models (+ the rules etc). It's the add ons that get expensive. First they get you hooked on cheap samples, then they jack up the price. That's how they work, they aren't completely stupid.

 

[major_chaos]

Just stop GW. I have yet to find a tabletop that is anywhere near as fun to build, play or read as 40k, you have one of the most fun IPs around, one that was been a source of many great books and games, and yet you happily throw that all away by finding the worst possible business decision and sticking with it. Reduce prices, get more than one person per store, get some quality devs to make 40k video games, and stop dicking over third party retailers. This isn't rocket science, and the plummeting profit margins should make it clear what you are doing now isn't working.

 

[Jamieson 90]

You can still buy the old lead models off eBay though; you can get yourself a gang of 8-12 men for around £50 which is still way cheaper then what you'll pay for Warhammer or 40k models.

Is that a typo? 8-12 dudes for £50 is in no way cheaper than Warhammer or 40K. Even their super "how the fuck can they charge that?" Vanguard veterans are "only" the same price. Hell, Necromunda weren't even that much new when they were still around last year.

You should probably only be paying between £10-20 for a squad of 8-10 men, depending on condition etc, unless you are going for specific in demand OOP models, but in that case you will probably be paying similar prices to new, or sometimes much more.

Necromunda models are expensive now compared to when they were first released because they don't even make them anymore. Like you can't even mail order them from GW. And IT IS cheaper than other GW games because with Necromunda you only ever need a small gang, once you buy those models you'll never ever need anymore which isn't the case with 40k where you need hundreds.

 

[Zykon TheLich_v1legacy]

Necromunda models are expensive now compared to when they were first released because they don't even make them anymore. Like you can't even mail order them from GW. And IT IS cheaper than other GW games because with Necromunda you only ever need a small gang, once you buy those models you'll never ever need anymore which isn't the case with 40k where you need hundreds.

Ah, you meant cheaper than other games, the way it was worded it looked like you were saying that 8-12 guys for £50 was cheaper than an equivalent number of Warhammer or 40K models.

Also...hundreds? I play with a marine army of 16 models on occasion,(and technically 11 is legal) just because everyone goes for huge battles doesn't mean you have to.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Well maybe you need to simplify the fucking game, eh?!
I mean look at your list of rules! Its impenetrable! -1 points for new players.
The models are too damn expensive! -1 point for all players
The new codexes are absolutely terrible. I mean GW made Ork boyz useless! -1 point for new players and -5 points for veteran players who sank money into units that are terrible now.

I have a friend I play with - he USED to play orks. Green tide. 2000pts worth of boyz, stormboyz, lootas, etc...Just waves of infantry. And he's giving up the entire army because he's being chewed to mulch every game. The new codex made 3/4 of his army unplayable, never mind tournaments. Does anyone play test the new rules? Or just eyeball, yeah that looks fine, start selling.

GW is spending all its efforts on making giant robots and abandoning every other army; its cheap, lazy, disrespectful and it's coming back to bite them in the ass. I shudder to think what they're going to do to Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Grey Knights.

 

[Jamieson 90]

Necromunda models are expensive now compared to when they were first released because they don't even make them anymore. Like you can't even mail order them from GW. And IT IS cheaper than other GW games because with Necromunda you only ever need a small gang, once you buy those models you'll never ever need anymore which isn't the case with 40k where you need hundreds.

Ah, you meant cheaper than other games, the way it was worded it looked like you were saying that 8-12 guys for £50 was cheaper than an equivalent number of Warhammer or 40K models.

Also...hundreds? I play with a marine army of 16 models on occasion,(and technically 11 is legal) just because everyone goes for huge battles doesn't mean you have to.

If you're only playing with 16 models then you might find Necromunda more fun. In Necromunda you create a gang list and each member of the gang has their own skills and character stats, and they gain experience between each battle and get skill progressions from that. Not only that, but if a guy dies in one battle then he's dead forever and you have to recruit a fresh ganger with 0xp and skills etc. Basically in Necromunda what happens on the battle field matters making it a really unforgiving game.

 

[gigastar]

Ok so the man spent the last half a year basically laying people off, and now he wants out?

...colout me confuzzled.

or just go to sega and make Total War:hammer 40k

Nonono, its Orks: Total WAAAAAGH!.

 

[gigastar]

Necromunda models are expensive now compared to when they were first released because they don't even make them anymore. Like you can't even mail order them from GW. And IT IS cheaper than other GW games because with Necromunda you only ever need a small gang, once you buy those models you'll never ever need anymore which isn't the case with 40k where you need hundreds.

Ah, you meant cheaper than other games, the way it was worded it looked like you were saying that 8-12 guys for £50 was cheaper than an equivalent number of Warhammer or 40K models.

Also...hundreds? I play with a marine army of 16 models on occasion,(and technically 11 is legal) just because everyone goes for huge battles doesn't mean you have to.

If you're only playing with 16 models then you might find Necromunda more fun. In Necromunda you create a gang list and each member of the gang has their own skills and character stats, and they gain experience between each battle and get skill progressions from that. Not only that, but if a guy dies in one battle then he's dead forever and you have to recruit a fresh ganger with 0xp and skills etc. Basically in Necromunda what happens on the battle field matters making it a really unforgiving game.

Theres also Blood Bowl, which is basically that but its rugby. With spikes on it. It also has a painstakingly faithful adaptation available on Steam.

 

[Gennadios]

Translation: "Thanks to restructuring and downsizing, our profits are simply down instead of us operating at a loss. We're still bleeding money!"

Seriously, this is supposedly a year where they released a brand new edition and a boatload of codexes and models and they still posted a loss?

I feel bad for GW, but I buy the vast majority of their models on Ebay, I only do small supplemental buys at my local games store to keep it afloat.

 

[Gizmo1990]

Want money? Make Space Marine 2, many of us would love it. Yes THQ is gone but still surely someone can pick up where they left off.

Barring that, Dawn of War III?

You know, that series that Once Topped Global PC Sales [http://kotaku.com/5165265/dawn-of-war-ii-tops-global-pc-sales]. Or actually challenged and beat Wrath of the Lich King [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.93072-Dawn-of-War-II-Dethrones-Lich-King]...

The one that people are still modding and playing to this day because it's one of the best RTS games ever.

The one that people constantly [http://steamcommunity.com/app/56400/discussions/0/558747922432471572/?insideModal=1] beg [http://dow.wikia.com/wiki/Warhammer_40,000:_Dawn_of_War_III] for [http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/605276-warhammer-40000-dawn-of-war-iii]?

You remember money, don't you GW? The good times you both had? Why would you do this to yourself?

or just go to sega and make Total War:hammer 40k
commanding an army of 10k gaunts and with the ability to do space battles would make anyone's day.

Ever play Star Wars Empire at War? I think that would make a good template for a 40k game. Plus Empire at War allowed Imp players to build the Death Star and I would love to be able to play as the Eldar and summon a Craftworld as backup.

 

[Ironman126]

Well maybe you need to simplify the fucking game, eh?!
I mean look at your list of rules! Its impenetrable! -1 points for new players.
The models are too damn expensive! -1 point for all players
The new codexes are absolutely terrible. I mean GW made Ork boyz useless! -1 point for new players and -5 points for veteran players who sank money into units that are terrible now.

I have a friend I play with - he USED to play orks. Green tide. 2000pts worth of boyz, stormboyz, lootas, etc...Just waves of infantry. And he's giving up the entire army because he's being chewed to mulch every game. The new codex made 3/4 of his army unplayable, never mind tournaments. Does anyone play test the new rules? Or just eyeball, yeah that looks fine, start selling.

GW is spending all its efforts on making giant robots and abandoning every other army; its cheap, lazy, disrespectful and it's coming back to bite them in the ass. I shudder to think what they're going to do to Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Grey Knights.

Ahem. What do you mean "going to do" to Space Wolves and Grey Knights? They let Matt Ward molest the Grey Knights years ago and they never recovered from the trauma. As for the Space Wolves, just look at the GW webstore. They got a new flyer... for $81 a pop. Or, for the low, low price of $162, you can have two!

Besides that, everything you said is spot on. Though, I think the prices may be more of a -10 to all players.

GW is a sickly company. They have been led by blind, arrogant, and paranoid men for too long and I don't think they will really ever recover. I got into 40k about a year ago and the prices have already gone up a minimum of 25% across the board. Add on top of that the fact that all GW does now days is make those idiotic mini-titans and release new rules every year and a half. I'm kind of regretting sinking the $400 I did into the game.

 

[The Material Sheep]

Well maybe you need to simplify the fucking game, eh?!
I mean look at your list of rules! Its impenetrable! -1 points for new players.
The models are too damn expensive! -1 point for all players
The new codexes are absolutely terrible. I mean GW made Ork boyz useless! -1 point for new players and -5 points for veteran players who sank money into units that are terrible now.

I have a friend I play with - he USED to play orks. Green tide. 2000pts worth of boyz, stormboyz, lootas, etc...Just waves of infantry. And he's giving up the entire army because he's being chewed to mulch every game. The new codex made 3/4 of his army unplayable, never mind tournaments. Does anyone play test the new rules? Or just eyeball, yeah that looks fine, start selling.

GW is spending all its efforts on making giant robots and abandoning every other army; its cheap, lazy, disrespectful and it's coming back to bite them in the ass. I shudder to think what they're going to do to Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Grey Knights.

The rules are largely fine, and the codex's have actually improved from marines straight up dominating like they were for a long time. The problem now a days, is really just coming down to the price of their models. They're going to price themselves out of the market if they keep it up. Also... their dumb ass copy right policy is hurting them a lot.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Drop your prices by about 20%, I guarantee you'll see a jump in profits over time because people could afford more for their addictions... I mean habit... hobby. Honestly GW if you're happy with a drop in profit you should be happy dropping prices.
There's a reason why I switched to Privateer Press and Warmachine (aside from the awesome game universe and models), they may not be super cheap compared to GW but there is considerably less investment needed to have a starter army.

 

[Shinkicker444]

More like drop them by 50%, make the rules less incomprehensible and balance the different factions better (and stop changing things and randomly ruining peoples efforts).

I would like to see a PC version of the TT game though, DoW is fun but not quite what I'd like to see. It'd be cheaper and people would buy it (just don't section things out and overcharge like MTG), hell tie it in properly with the actual TT game you'd probably get people buying both (depending if you make the TT actually accessible). Since this is what it seems Warmachine is doing, but they don't have Necrons otherwise I'd be all over it.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

SNIP

Ahem. What do you mean "going to do" to Space Wolves and Grey Knights? They let Matt Ward molest the Grey Knights years ago and they never recovered from the trauma. As for the Space Wolves, just look at the GW webstore. They got a new flyer... for $81 a pop. Or, for the low, low price of $162, you can have two!

Besides that, everything you said is spot on. Though, I think the prices may be more of a -10 to all players.

GW is a sickly company. They have been led by blind, arrogant, and paranoid men for too long and I don't think they will really ever recover. I got into 40k about a year ago and the prices have already gone up a minimum of 25% across the board. Add on top of that the fact that all GW does now days is make those idiotic mini-titans and release new rules every year and a half. I'm kind of regretting sinking the $400 I did into the game.

When it comes to prices, and this may sound incredibly stupid, but I only buy Forge World and off eBay. I play Legion, and Forge World is the only part of the company that seems to care. And when laid out the pricing of Forge World bits isn't that much more than GW. It takes me a little longer to build up an army, but damn it, its a army worth playing from people who enjoy playing the game!

The more I read about GW as a whole, the more I'm convinced that GW views 40k as an annoyance. A stepchild from a previous marriage it now has to care for, rather than the flagship of the entire company.

And as far as the Grey Knights go, yes they're bad now, I'm just worried they'll become even worse.