GameStop Wants to Sell Used Digital Games

[Falterfire]

I believe that if the lack of used sales created sales then Origin and Games on Demand would have alot more sales. I don't believe used sales have anything to do with games going on sale.

I also know that I have cut the price of new games in half by reselling them. You know you can buy a game new for $60 and sometimes Gamestop will offer you $30 for it in return for the first month?

So, you could play it, beat it and return it for half your money back which you would most likely put towards a new game.

I will tell you this, giving the publishers complete price control by not allowing used sales (100% digital) is a bad idea. These are the same publishers that want to charge you for ingame bullets.

No, the reason that Origin and Games on Demand don't have as many sales is because they're run by people who don't understand why it is that Steam is making insane amounts of money. They could offer sales just as easily as Steam does, but they're not, and they're not selling as much because of it.

For digital, the price competition comes from having different digital distribution platforms. Currently, the biggest threat to gamers regarding price abuse is a potential monopoly on digital distribution. As much as I love Steam, I really do wish they had at least one serious competitor. GOG is getting there, but Origin isn't, mainly because EA doesn't seem to understand any of why Steam is doing well.

As for the selling games back: As I said, obviously you believe the ability to sell used games back is worth it. I, as a broke college student, don't usually buy $60 games within a month of release anyways.

Honestly, the best option here is simple, and helps fight both problems simultaneously: If Game Stop does this, they need to do so on Impulse, their own platform. As the argument here has demonstrated, a lot of people feel strongly about the ability to sell digital games. If Impulse offered such an option, it would be able to seriously compete against Steam. So you'd get the ability to sell used games, I'd keep my sales, and Steam would gain a competitor to help prevent price gouging once Origin inevitably collapses.

 

[Strazdas]

The weird thing about 2nd-hand digital copies is that, well... what sets them apart from 1st-hand digital copies? When buying a physical game used the buyer understands that it has been used before and may come with issues due to that fact (scratched disk, missing instruction booklet, standard wear and tear, etc.). How does this translate into the digital market?

But thats the whole point. With digital re-selling they wont be able to get away with a 8 hour storyline you never want to repeat and call it "a game wirth 60 dollars". They will have to make games good enough so people want to keep it and play again later. Imagine, them actually trying to make good games.


I want to trade my digital copies of games. But i dont want retailer like gamespot to do it. The whole point of digital trade is to kill those retailers.

 

[Epona]

The weird thing about 2nd-hand digital copies is that, well... what sets them apart from 1st-hand digital copies? When buying a physical game used the buyer understands that it has been used before and may come with issues due to that fact (scratched disk, missing instruction booklet, standard wear and tear, etc.). How does this translate into the digital market?

But thats the whole point. With digital re-selling they wont be able to get away with a 8 hour storyline you never want to repeat and call it "a game wirth 60 dollars". They will have to make games good enough so people want to keep it and play again later. Imagine, them actually trying to make good games.


I want to trade my digital copies of games. But i dont want retailer like gamespot to do it. The whole point of digital trade is to kill those retailers.

No, the whole point to reselling your digital games is to exercise your ownership rights. Use those rights or let the publishers take them away from you.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Well greenmangaming.com is still around and they allow you to sell back your digital purchases, so... I guess it could work.

Ok, everyone arguing like a bunch of completely uninformed goofs in this thread: this guy is the only one who even knows what's going on. I came to point out that it's nearly certain that Green Man Gaming is what they're referring to by "technologies out there in Europe", and I was hoping that as usual half a dozen people had already beat me to it. Nope. One guy.

GMG is a site/online store based in the UK (but which sells to other regions too, including the US) which has been doing exactly this already for a couple years now, and from what I remember hearing recently I think they're the fastest growing European online game store. Some things they sell activate on Steam, which obviously can't be traded in, but with anything that runs entirely through their own service/client you can "sell" it back to them for credit toward buying other games, and it just revokes the license for it from your account. If their client they forced you to use (Capsule) weren't such a nightmare (or at least it was last time I looked into it at some point last year), it'd kind of be an interesting idea, but as it is I don't know anyone who uses GMG as anything other than a way to get stuff that can be activated on Steam when it's cheaper than it is on Steam. They have pretty good pre-order discounts and coupon codes and stuff sometimes.

They even give games away for free occasionally, and the crazy part is you can get trade in value on the free ones (although not during the period where they're still free XD). The client's not terrible, either, although it's mildly annoying that pretty much everything that's not directly related to managing your library is actually a link to a website. It's got Steam style links to the store and the community features, but they aren't actually built in on the client -- they're just links to the website.

So yeah, to all you nay-sayers: this is basically a way to get a partial refund on games you no longer want for whatever reason. Think of it as store credit that you can use to buy more games. If gamestop also finds a way to allow users to buy used CD keys for a discount[footnote]which, by the way, is possible with most non-Steam or Origin based DRM systems -- how do you think used PC games on amazon and ebay work? Most of them have CD keys, you know.[/footnote], more power to them, but it's most likely going to work the way Green Man Gaming is already doing it.

Edit: By the way, Impulse already rules. It's already my favorite DD platform. If Gamestop pulls this off and the used games are reasonably priced, it may replace Steam as my primary DD store -- primary only because of how ridiculously good the sales are.

 

[Yopaz]

The weird thing about 2nd-hand digital copies is that, well... what sets them apart from 1st-hand digital copies? When buying a physical game used the buyer understands that it has been used before and may come with issues due to that fact (scratched disk, missing instruction booklet, standard wear and tear, etc.). How does this translate into the digital market?

You get the product another person owned before. It's that simple.

If it is as simple as you claim. Explain it to me. What is the difference between a used digital game and a new digital game? Digital data can't be "used" in the same way physical objects can. There's no loss of data, there's no damages.

Seriously, this just sounds like GameStop is trying to earn money from piracy.

So you are saying that what makes a product used is that it is damaged? Well, let's forget the case and manual since digital copies don't have those for new buyers either. All that matters now is the game itself, for physical copies, that would be the disc.

So you are saying the disc is damaged and that's what makes used games...used. Well, that's a non issue since Gamestop guarantees that the disc will be 100% playable. There really is no difference here.

No, I am saying that a used product will actually be used. If it is so simple, can you please explain how bits and bytes store on one hard drive can be a used product? All of that data will be brand new.

It's neither new nor used, the data is just data, The product key though, can be new or used.

Considering the current policy on using keys on several computers this doesn't even sound possible. I'd like to see GameStop selling Anno 2070 "used".

 

[Epona]

The weird thing about 2nd-hand digital copies is that, well... what sets them apart from 1st-hand digital copies? When buying a physical game used the buyer understands that it has been used before and may come with issues due to that fact (scratched disk, missing instruction booklet, standard wear and tear, etc.). How does this translate into the digital market?

You get the product another person owned before. It's that simple.

If it is as simple as you claim. Explain it to me. What is the difference between a used digital game and a new digital game? Digital data can't be "used" in the same way physical objects can. There's no loss of data, there's no damages.

Seriously, this just sounds like GameStop is trying to earn money from piracy.

So you are saying that what makes a product used is that it is damaged? Well, let's forget the case and manual since digital copies don't have those for new buyers either. All that matters now is the game itself, for physical copies, that would be the disc.

So you are saying the disc is damaged and that's what makes used games...used. Well, that's a non issue since Gamestop guarantees that the disc will be 100% playable. There really is no difference here.

No, I am saying that a used product will actually be used. If it is so simple, can you please explain how bits and bytes store on one hard drive can be a used product? All of that data will be brand new.

It's neither new nor used, the data is just data, The product key though, can be new or used.

Considering the current policy on using keys on several computers this doesn't even sound possible. I'd like to see GameStop selling Anno 2070 "used".

Think of it this way, with a Steam like system I could easily sell my game back and I would be unable to play it after that since the system would uninstall the game and I would need to be logged into the system to re-download it (which would obviously not be authorized).

It's really not difficult.

 

[Yopaz]

The weird thing about 2nd-hand digital copies is that, well... what sets them apart from 1st-hand digital copies? When buying a physical game used the buyer understands that it has been used before and may come with issues due to that fact (scratched disk, missing instruction booklet, standard wear and tear, etc.). How does this translate into the digital market?

You get the product another person owned before. It's that simple.

If it is as simple as you claim. Explain it to me. What is the difference between a used digital game and a new digital game? Digital data can't be "used" in the same way physical objects can. There's no loss of data, there's no damages.

Seriously, this just sounds like GameStop is trying to earn money from piracy.

So you are saying that what makes a product used is that it is damaged? Well, let's forget the case and manual since digital copies don't have those for new buyers either. All that matters now is the game itself, for physical copies, that would be the disc.

So you are saying the disc is damaged and that's what makes used games...used. Well, that's a non issue since Gamestop guarantees that the disc will be 100% playable. There really is no difference here.

No, I am saying that a used product will actually be used. If it is so simple, can you please explain how bits and bytes store on one hard drive can be a used product? All of that data will be brand new.

It's neither new nor used, the data is just data, The product key though, can be new or used.

Considering the current policy on using keys on several computers this doesn't even sound possible. I'd like to see GameStop selling Anno 2070 "used".

Think of it this way, with a Steam like system I could easily sell my game back and I would be unable to play it after that since the system would uninstall the game and I would need to be logged into the system to re-download it (which would obviously not be authorized).

It's really not difficult.

Considering there's a company out there that wont let you reinstall a game that you bought if you happen to have made some upgrades on the same computer that you originally installed it on then, yeah, it really is that difficult. If the product key that GameStop sells you can't be used then that's it. Companies do this kind of thing. Ignoring the things a company is willing to do doesn't make you right. It makes you wrong and ignorant.

 

[TheHmm]

I like how ive never ever purchased a game from gamestop...

It must be stupid people who keep them afloat...

 

[Epona]

The weird thing about 2nd-hand digital copies is that, well... what sets them apart from 1st-hand digital copies? When buying a physical game used the buyer understands that it has been used before and may come with issues due to that fact (scratched disk, missing instruction booklet, standard wear and tear, etc.). How does this translate into the digital market?

You get the product another person owned before. It's that simple.

If it is as simple as you claim. Explain it to me. What is the difference between a used digital game and a new digital game? Digital data can't be "used" in the same way physical objects can. There's no loss of data, there's no damages.

Seriously, this just sounds like GameStop is trying to earn money from piracy.

So you are saying that what makes a product used is that it is damaged? Well, let's forget the case and manual since digital copies don't have those for new buyers either. All that matters now is the game itself, for physical copies, that would be the disc.

So you are saying the disc is damaged and that's what makes used games...used. Well, that's a non issue since Gamestop guarantees that the disc will be 100% playable. There really is no difference here.

No, I am saying that a used product will actually be used. If it is so simple, can you please explain how bits and bytes store on one hard drive can be a used product? All of that data will be brand new.

It's neither new nor used, the data is just data, The product key though, can be new or used.

Considering the current policy on using keys on several computers this doesn't even sound possible. I'd like to see GameStop selling Anno 2070 "used".

Think of it this way, with a Steam like system I could easily sell my game back and I would be unable to play it after that since the system would uninstall the game and I would need to be logged into the system to re-download it (which would obviously not be authorized).

It's really not difficult.

Considering there's a company out there that wont let you reinstall a game that you bought if you happen to have made some upgrades on the same computer that you originally installed it on then, yeah, it really is that difficult. If the product key that GameStop sells you can't be used then that's it. Companies do this kind of thing. Ignoring the things a company is willing to do doesn't make you right. It makes you wrong and ignorant.

Reported!

There really wasn't any need to call me ignorant. There are always exceptions, I was speaking of the bigger picture, not just that one game.

 

[Epona]

I like how ive never ever purchased a game from gamestop...

It must be stupid people who keep them afloat...

Yes, stupid people saving money. The really smart people are paying more for the same product.

 

[Sushewakka]

Considering there's a company out there that wont let you reinstall a game that you bought if you happen to have made some upgrades on the same computer that you originally installed it on then, yeah, it really is that difficult. If the product key that GameStop sells you can't be used then that's it. Companies do this kind of thing. Ignoring the things a company is willing to do doesn't make you right. It makes you wrong and ignorant.

However, with the current ruling, you can prosecute the company that is unwilling to allow you to use your legally adquired product.
Basically, this ruling makes the kind of DRM system you mention illegal, as it denies the right of resale -- by way of making the second hand user unable to utilize his legally adquired product.

 

[Yopaz]

The weird thing about 2nd-hand digital copies is that, well... what sets them apart from 1st-hand digital copies? When buying a physical game used the buyer understands that it has been used before and may come with issues due to that fact (scratched disk, missing instruction booklet, standard wear and tear, etc.). How does this translate into the digital market?

You get the product another person owned before. It's that simple.

If it is as simple as you claim. Explain it to me. What is the difference between a used digital game and a new digital game? Digital data can't be "used" in the same way physical objects can. There's no loss of data, there's no damages.

Seriously, this just sounds like GameStop is trying to earn money from piracy.

So you are saying that what makes a product used is that it is damaged? Well, let's forget the case and manual since digital copies don't have those for new buyers either. All that matters now is the game itself, for physical copies, that would be the disc.

So you are saying the disc is damaged and that's what makes used games...used. Well, that's a non issue since Gamestop guarantees that the disc will be 100% playable. There really is no difference here.

No, I am saying that a used product will actually be used. If it is so simple, can you please explain how bits and bytes store on one hard drive can be a used product? All of that data will be brand new.

It's neither new nor used, the data is just data, The product key though, can be new or used.

Considering the current policy on using keys on several computers this doesn't even sound possible. I'd like to see GameStop selling Anno 2070 "used".

Think of it this way, with a Steam like system I could easily sell my game back and I would be unable to play it after that since the system would uninstall the game and I would need to be logged into the system to re-download it (which would obviously not be authorized).

It's really not difficult.

Considering there's a company out there that wont let you reinstall a game that you bought if you happen to have made some upgrades on the same computer that you originally installed it on then, yeah, it really is that difficult. If the product key that GameStop sells you can't be used then that's it. Companies do this kind of thing. Ignoring the things a company is willing to do doesn't make you right. It makes you wrong and ignorant.

Reported!

There really wasn't any need to call me ignorant. There are always exceptions, I was speaking of the bigger picture, not just that one game.

I didn't call you ignorant, I said if you choose to ignore the business tactics of a company right after being made aware of them that makes you ignorant. Thanks for showing me that you're truly unwilling to address my points. Report me all you want, it wont change the fact that companies can easily prevent us from using the same product key as someone else.

 

[Epona]

The weird thing about 2nd-hand digital copies is that, well... what sets them apart from 1st-hand digital copies? When buying a physical game used the buyer understands that it has been used before and may come with issues due to that fact (scratched disk, missing instruction booklet, standard wear and tear, etc.). How does this translate into the digital market?

You get the product another person owned before. It's that simple.

If it is as simple as you claim. Explain it to me. What is the difference between a used digital game and a new digital game? Digital data can't be "used" in the same way physical objects can. There's no loss of data, there's no damages.

Seriously, this just sounds like GameStop is trying to earn money from piracy.

So you are saying that what makes a product used is that it is damaged? Well, let's forget the case and manual since digital copies don't have those for new buyers either. All that matters now is the game itself, for physical copies, that would be the disc.

So you are saying the disc is damaged and that's what makes used games...used. Well, that's a non issue since Gamestop guarantees that the disc will be 100% playable. There really is no difference here.

No, I am saying that a used product will actually be used. If it is so simple, can you please explain how bits and bytes store on one hard drive can be a used product? All of that data will be brand new.

It's neither new nor used, the data is just data, The product key though, can be new or used.

Considering the current policy on using keys on several computers this doesn't even sound possible. I'd like to see GameStop selling Anno 2070 "used".

Think of it this way, with a Steam like system I could easily sell my game back and I would be unable to play it after that since the system would uninstall the game and I would need to be logged into the system to re-download it (which would obviously not be authorized).

It's really not difficult.

Considering there's a company out there that wont let you reinstall a game that you bought if you happen to have made some upgrades on the same computer that you originally installed it on then, yeah, it really is that difficult. If the product key that GameStop sells you can't be used then that's it. Companies do this kind of thing. Ignoring the things a company is willing to do doesn't make you right. It makes you wrong and ignorant.

Reported!

There really wasn't any need to call me ignorant. There are always exceptions, I was speaking of the bigger picture, not just that one game.

I didn't call you ignorant, I said if you choose to ignore the business tactics of a company right after being made aware of them that makes you ignorant. Thanks for showing me that you're truly unwilling to address my points. Report me all you want, it wont change the fact that companies can easily prevent us from using the same product key as someone else.

I see your point, I just don't think it applies to the big picture. Most games will work just fine with the system I described and as Sushewakka said, that activity from publishers could be seen as illegal in some countries.

 

[willsham45]

Wasn't there a thing a while back where valve was thinking of allowing people to give back the games for a small bit of in server currency?

The way I see this happening is buying games though there system, so games you bought on steam or xbox and ps3 equivalents probally would not work, and I have a feeling would not be allowed. Which means devs will have to choose weather they want to use the system or not and the game stop will allow you to buy games and then sell back for credit to get other games. But if they go that far I think they may as well just set up a game renting survive.

For the selling digital second hand games I do not think that is possible unless they sell regular discounted games minus the unlock code which sounds reasonable I guess as long as the money goes to the right places.

So ye anything digital to do with games I think is controllable by the devs or publishers, so I think it will work in there way more so, I guess we just have to wait and see.

 

[Yopaz]

The weird thing about 2nd-hand digital copies is that, well... what sets them apart from 1st-hand digital copies? When buying a physical game used the buyer understands that it has been used before and may come with issues due to that fact (scratched disk, missing instruction booklet, standard wear and tear, etc.). How does this translate into the digital market?

You get the product another person owned before. It's that simple.

If it is as simple as you claim. Explain it to me. What is the difference between a used digital game and a new digital game? Digital data can't be "used" in the same way physical objects can. There's no loss of data, there's no damages.

Seriously, this just sounds like GameStop is trying to earn money from piracy.

So you are saying that what makes a product used is that it is damaged? Well, let's forget the case and manual since digital copies don't have those for new buyers either. All that matters now is the game itself, for physical copies, that would be the disc.

So you are saying the disc is damaged and that's what makes used games...used. Well, that's a non issue since Gamestop guarantees that the disc will be 100% playable. There really is no difference here.

No, I am saying that a used product will actually be used. If it is so simple, can you please explain how bits and bytes store on one hard drive can be a used product? All of that data will be brand new.

It's neither new nor used, the data is just data, The product key though, can be new or used.

Considering the current policy on using keys on several computers this doesn't even sound possible. I'd like to see GameStop selling Anno 2070 "used".

Think of it this way, with a Steam like system I could easily sell my game back and I would be unable to play it after that since the system would uninstall the game and I would need to be logged into the system to re-download it (which would obviously not be authorized).

It's really not difficult.

Considering there's a company out there that wont let you reinstall a game that you bought if you happen to have made some upgrades on the same computer that you originally installed it on then, yeah, it really is that difficult. If the product key that GameStop sells you can't be used then that's it. Companies do this kind of thing. Ignoring the things a company is willing to do doesn't make you right. It makes you wrong and ignorant.

Reported!

There really wasn't any need to call me ignorant. There are always exceptions, I was speaking of the bigger picture, not just that one game.

I didn't call you ignorant, I said if you choose to ignore the business tactics of a company right after being made aware of them that makes you ignorant. Thanks for showing me that you're truly unwilling to address my points. Report me all you want, it wont change the fact that companies can easily prevent us from using the same product key as someone else.

First of all I would require a source for this.

Then I want to ask you if this law is international or if it belongs within the borders of one country or state. Because you know, there's more than one country in the world.

Moving on, if companies are getting involved, do you really think they will be denied copyright protection? Do you really think companies will be denied the right to protect their property? Yes, we all know DRM is bullshit that pretty much just affects customers, but that's not what companies claim. The major companies can usually get away with sleazy business tactics one way or another. Most likely this would be a problem for GameStop and the fact that they would be selling product keys that didn't work.

 

[Epona]

Wasn't there a thing a while back where valve was thinking of allowing people to give back the games for a small bit of in server currency?

The way I see this happening is buying games though there system, so games you bought on steam or xbox and ps3 equivalents probally would not work, and I have a feeling would not be allowed. Which means devs will have to choose weather they want to use the system or not and the game stop will allow you to buy games and then sell back for credit to get other games. But if they go that far I think they may as well just set up a game renting survive.

For the selling digital second hand games I do not think that is possible unless they sell regular discounted games minus the unlock code which sounds reasonable I guess as long as the money goes to the right places.

So ye anything digital to do with games I think is controllable by the devs or publishers, so I think it will work in there way more so, I guess we just have to wait and see.

Don't follow the bolded part. Could you explain?

 

[willsham45]

Wasn't there a thing a while back where valve was thinking of allowing people to give back the games for a small bit of in server currency?

The way I see this happening is buying games though there system, so games you bought on steam or xbox and ps3 equivalents probally would not work, and I have a feeling would not be allowed. Which means devs will have to choose weather they want to use the system or not and the game stop will allow you to buy games and then sell back for credit to get other games. But if they go that far I think they may as well just set up a game renting survive.

For the selling digital second hand games I do not think that is possible unless they sell regular discounted games minus the unlock code which sounds reasonable I guess as long as the money goes to the right places.

So ye anything digital to do with games I think is controllable by the devs or publishers, so I think it will work in there way more so, I guess we just have to wait and see.

Don't follow the bolded part. Could you explain?

What I mean is selling games minus any activation codes for extra content on-line passes etc that you would get buying the game new, IE sell games as though they were second hand in the store.

I think just in general a system where you can buy and sell games back for a little credit to buy new games could be nice. Trading of licences I don't see how that will work.

Does that sound a bit better?

 

[Epona]

Wasn't there a thing a while back where valve was thinking of allowing people to give back the games for a small bit of in server currency?

The way I see this happening is buying games though there system, so games you bought on steam or xbox and ps3 equivalents probally would not work, and I have a feeling would not be allowed. Which means devs will have to choose weather they want to use the system or not and the game stop will allow you to buy games and then sell back for credit to get other games. But if they go that far I think they may as well just set up a game renting survive.

For the selling digital second hand games I do not think that is possible unless they sell regular discounted games minus the unlock code which sounds reasonable I guess as long as the money goes to the right places.

So ye anything digital to do with games I think is controllable by the devs or publishers, so I think it will work in there way more so, I guess we just have to wait and see.

Don't follow the bolded part. Could you explain?

What I mean is selling games minus any activation codes for extra content on-line passes etc that you would get buying the game new, IE sell games as though they were second hand in the store.

I think just in general a system where you can buy and sell games back for a little credit to buy new games could be nice. Trading of licences I don't see how that will work.

Does that sound a bit better?

Yeah makes sense. I am all for publishers using online passes because I know that online passes are doomed to fail. I say that because in any online game, the gamers ARE the content. Online passes = fewer gamers online which means that publishers are only shooting themselves in the foot.

Trading of product keys (not licenses) would work just fine on a service like Steam.

 

[Drakey]

snipping

On the first one.

You dont understand what is meant by service. You have no right of ownership over services. Everything you are saying there is just hot Air. You have no right to sign over your lease. You need to get that you dont own the services. Once you get that then you will understand that your claims of "i can just sign it over".
Entertainment has worked like this for ages. And I cant just sign over my life time ticket to Legoland just because went there last week.

Secondly.
You are pulling info out of your ass again. Games fail all the time because they dont hit the mark. Heavy rain and Enslaved: Odyssey to the West just to mention 2 of the top of my head. You idea that they make is back in the first week is idiotic at best, and with no understanding of the reality of game making.

Also your asinine statement of you can make

pooperloads of what we want to keep to the grave

was just as fucking stupid when Jim Sterling said it. Good games end up getting resold more than bad games. Mention any game you think is "take to the grave quality" and ill find you a copy in the used market.

3rd
How can you not spot the irnoy of your complaints? They are greedy for being able to treat THEIR PROPERTY the way they want, but when you insist that you CAN OWN IT you are just defending as your rights?
How about a little more self awareness?
Can I force you to sell your house? Then you are greedy!
Your logic is fun.

Wow. Sing it.