GameStop Wants to Sell Used Digital Games

[Epona]

I like how ive never ever purchased a game from gamestop...

It must be stupid people who keep them afloat...

Yes, stupid people saving money. The really smart people are paying more for the same product.

 

[Sushewakka]

Considering there's a company out there that wont let you reinstall a game that you bought if you happen to have made some upgrades on the same computer that you originally installed it on then, yeah, it really is that difficult. If the product key that GameStop sells you can't be used then that's it. Companies do this kind of thing. Ignoring the things a company is willing to do doesn't make you right. It makes you wrong and ignorant.

However, with the current ruling, you can prosecute the company that is unwilling to allow you to use your legally adquired product.
Basically, this ruling makes the kind of DRM system you mention illegal, as it denies the right of resale -- by way of making the second hand user unable to utilize his legally adquired product.

 

[Yopaz]

The weird thing about 2nd-hand digital copies is that, well... what sets them apart from 1st-hand digital copies? When buying a physical game used the buyer understands that it has been used before and may come with issues due to that fact (scratched disk, missing instruction booklet, standard wear and tear, etc.). How does this translate into the digital market?

You get the product another person owned before. It's that simple.

If it is as simple as you claim. Explain it to me. What is the difference between a used digital game and a new digital game? Digital data can't be "used" in the same way physical objects can. There's no loss of data, there's no damages.

Seriously, this just sounds like GameStop is trying to earn money from piracy.

So you are saying that what makes a product used is that it is damaged? Well, let's forget the case and manual since digital copies don't have those for new buyers either. All that matters now is the game itself, for physical copies, that would be the disc.

So you are saying the disc is damaged and that's what makes used games...used. Well, that's a non issue since Gamestop guarantees that the disc will be 100% playable. There really is no difference here.

No, I am saying that a used product will actually be used. If it is so simple, can you please explain how bits and bytes store on one hard drive can be a used product? All of that data will be brand new.

It's neither new nor used, the data is just data, The product key though, can be new or used.

Considering the current policy on using keys on several computers this doesn't even sound possible. I'd like to see GameStop selling Anno 2070 "used".

Think of it this way, with a Steam like system I could easily sell my game back and I would be unable to play it after that since the system would uninstall the game and I would need to be logged into the system to re-download it (which would obviously not be authorized).

It's really not difficult.

Considering there's a company out there that wont let you reinstall a game that you bought if you happen to have made some upgrades on the same computer that you originally installed it on then, yeah, it really is that difficult. If the product key that GameStop sells you can't be used then that's it. Companies do this kind of thing. Ignoring the things a company is willing to do doesn't make you right. It makes you wrong and ignorant.

Reported!

There really wasn't any need to call me ignorant. There are always exceptions, I was speaking of the bigger picture, not just that one game.

I didn't call you ignorant, I said if you choose to ignore the business tactics of a company right after being made aware of them that makes you ignorant. Thanks for showing me that you're truly unwilling to address my points. Report me all you want, it wont change the fact that companies can easily prevent us from using the same product key as someone else.

 

[Epona]

The weird thing about 2nd-hand digital copies is that, well... what sets them apart from 1st-hand digital copies? When buying a physical game used the buyer understands that it has been used before and may come with issues due to that fact (scratched disk, missing instruction booklet, standard wear and tear, etc.). How does this translate into the digital market?

You get the product another person owned before. It's that simple.

If it is as simple as you claim. Explain it to me. What is the difference between a used digital game and a new digital game? Digital data can't be "used" in the same way physical objects can. There's no loss of data, there's no damages.

Seriously, this just sounds like GameStop is trying to earn money from piracy.

So you are saying that what makes a product used is that it is damaged? Well, let's forget the case and manual since digital copies don't have those for new buyers either. All that matters now is the game itself, for physical copies, that would be the disc.

So you are saying the disc is damaged and that's what makes used games...used. Well, that's a non issue since Gamestop guarantees that the disc will be 100% playable. There really is no difference here.

No, I am saying that a used product will actually be used. If it is so simple, can you please explain how bits and bytes store on one hard drive can be a used product? All of that data will be brand new.

It's neither new nor used, the data is just data, The product key though, can be new or used.

Considering the current policy on using keys on several computers this doesn't even sound possible. I'd like to see GameStop selling Anno 2070 "used".

Think of it this way, with a Steam like system I could easily sell my game back and I would be unable to play it after that since the system would uninstall the game and I would need to be logged into the system to re-download it (which would obviously not be authorized).

It's really not difficult.

Considering there's a company out there that wont let you reinstall a game that you bought if you happen to have made some upgrades on the same computer that you originally installed it on then, yeah, it really is that difficult. If the product key that GameStop sells you can't be used then that's it. Companies do this kind of thing. Ignoring the things a company is willing to do doesn't make you right. It makes you wrong and ignorant.

Reported!

There really wasn't any need to call me ignorant. There are always exceptions, I was speaking of the bigger picture, not just that one game.

I didn't call you ignorant, I said if you choose to ignore the business tactics of a company right after being made aware of them that makes you ignorant. Thanks for showing me that you're truly unwilling to address my points. Report me all you want, it wont change the fact that companies can easily prevent us from using the same product key as someone else.

I see your point, I just don't think it applies to the big picture. Most games will work just fine with the system I described and as Sushewakka said, that activity from publishers could be seen as illegal in some countries.

 

[willsham45]

Wasn't there a thing a while back where valve was thinking of allowing people to give back the games for a small bit of in server currency?

The way I see this happening is buying games though there system, so games you bought on steam or xbox and ps3 equivalents probally would not work, and I have a feeling would not be allowed. Which means devs will have to choose weather they want to use the system or not and the game stop will allow you to buy games and then sell back for credit to get other games. But if they go that far I think they may as well just set up a game renting survive.

For the selling digital second hand games I do not think that is possible unless they sell regular discounted games minus the unlock code which sounds reasonable I guess as long as the money goes to the right places.

So ye anything digital to do with games I think is controllable by the devs or publishers, so I think it will work in there way more so, I guess we just have to wait and see.

 

[Yopaz]

The weird thing about 2nd-hand digital copies is that, well... what sets them apart from 1st-hand digital copies? When buying a physical game used the buyer understands that it has been used before and may come with issues due to that fact (scratched disk, missing instruction booklet, standard wear and tear, etc.). How does this translate into the digital market?

You get the product another person owned before. It's that simple.

If it is as simple as you claim. Explain it to me. What is the difference between a used digital game and a new digital game? Digital data can't be "used" in the same way physical objects can. There's no loss of data, there's no damages.

Seriously, this just sounds like GameStop is trying to earn money from piracy.

So you are saying that what makes a product used is that it is damaged? Well, let's forget the case and manual since digital copies don't have those for new buyers either. All that matters now is the game itself, for physical copies, that would be the disc.

So you are saying the disc is damaged and that's what makes used games...used. Well, that's a non issue since Gamestop guarantees that the disc will be 100% playable. There really is no difference here.

No, I am saying that a used product will actually be used. If it is so simple, can you please explain how bits and bytes store on one hard drive can be a used product? All of that data will be brand new.

It's neither new nor used, the data is just data, The product key though, can be new or used.

Considering the current policy on using keys on several computers this doesn't even sound possible. I'd like to see GameStop selling Anno 2070 "used".

Think of it this way, with a Steam like system I could easily sell my game back and I would be unable to play it after that since the system would uninstall the game and I would need to be logged into the system to re-download it (which would obviously not be authorized).

It's really not difficult.

Considering there's a company out there that wont let you reinstall a game that you bought if you happen to have made some upgrades on the same computer that you originally installed it on then, yeah, it really is that difficult. If the product key that GameStop sells you can't be used then that's it. Companies do this kind of thing. Ignoring the things a company is willing to do doesn't make you right. It makes you wrong and ignorant.

Reported!

There really wasn't any need to call me ignorant. There are always exceptions, I was speaking of the bigger picture, not just that one game.

I didn't call you ignorant, I said if you choose to ignore the business tactics of a company right after being made aware of them that makes you ignorant. Thanks for showing me that you're truly unwilling to address my points. Report me all you want, it wont change the fact that companies can easily prevent us from using the same product key as someone else.

First of all I would require a source for this.

Then I want to ask you if this law is international or if it belongs within the borders of one country or state. Because you know, there's more than one country in the world.

Moving on, if companies are getting involved, do you really think they will be denied copyright protection? Do you really think companies will be denied the right to protect their property? Yes, we all know DRM is bullshit that pretty much just affects customers, but that's not what companies claim. The major companies can usually get away with sleazy business tactics one way or another. Most likely this would be a problem for GameStop and the fact that they would be selling product keys that didn't work.

 

[Epona]

Wasn't there a thing a while back where valve was thinking of allowing people to give back the games for a small bit of in server currency?

The way I see this happening is buying games though there system, so games you bought on steam or xbox and ps3 equivalents probally would not work, and I have a feeling would not be allowed. Which means devs will have to choose weather they want to use the system or not and the game stop will allow you to buy games and then sell back for credit to get other games. But if they go that far I think they may as well just set up a game renting survive.

For the selling digital second hand games I do not think that is possible unless they sell regular discounted games minus the unlock code which sounds reasonable I guess as long as the money goes to the right places.

So ye anything digital to do with games I think is controllable by the devs or publishers, so I think it will work in there way more so, I guess we just have to wait and see.

Don't follow the bolded part. Could you explain?

 

[willsham45]

Wasn't there a thing a while back where valve was thinking of allowing people to give back the games for a small bit of in server currency?

The way I see this happening is buying games though there system, so games you bought on steam or xbox and ps3 equivalents probally would not work, and I have a feeling would not be allowed. Which means devs will have to choose weather they want to use the system or not and the game stop will allow you to buy games and then sell back for credit to get other games. But if they go that far I think they may as well just set up a game renting survive.

For the selling digital second hand games I do not think that is possible unless they sell regular discounted games minus the unlock code which sounds reasonable I guess as long as the money goes to the right places.

So ye anything digital to do with games I think is controllable by the devs or publishers, so I think it will work in there way more so, I guess we just have to wait and see.

Don't follow the bolded part. Could you explain?

What I mean is selling games minus any activation codes for extra content on-line passes etc that you would get buying the game new, IE sell games as though they were second hand in the store.

I think just in general a system where you can buy and sell games back for a little credit to buy new games could be nice. Trading of licences I don't see how that will work.

Does that sound a bit better?

 

[Epona]

Wasn't there a thing a while back where valve was thinking of allowing people to give back the games for a small bit of in server currency?

The way I see this happening is buying games though there system, so games you bought on steam or xbox and ps3 equivalents probally would not work, and I have a feeling would not be allowed. Which means devs will have to choose weather they want to use the system or not and the game stop will allow you to buy games and then sell back for credit to get other games. But if they go that far I think they may as well just set up a game renting survive.

For the selling digital second hand games I do not think that is possible unless they sell regular discounted games minus the unlock code which sounds reasonable I guess as long as the money goes to the right places.

So ye anything digital to do with games I think is controllable by the devs or publishers, so I think it will work in there way more so, I guess we just have to wait and see.

Don't follow the bolded part. Could you explain?

What I mean is selling games minus any activation codes for extra content on-line passes etc that you would get buying the game new, IE sell games as though they were second hand in the store.

I think just in general a system where you can buy and sell games back for a little credit to buy new games could be nice. Trading of licences I don't see how that will work.

Does that sound a bit better?

Yeah makes sense. I am all for publishers using online passes because I know that online passes are doomed to fail. I say that because in any online game, the gamers ARE the content. Online passes = fewer gamers online which means that publishers are only shooting themselves in the foot.

Trading of product keys (not licenses) would work just fine on a service like Steam.

 

[Drakey]

snipping

On the first one.

You dont understand what is meant by service. You have no right of ownership over services. Everything you are saying there is just hot Air. You have no right to sign over your lease. You need to get that you dont own the services. Once you get that then you will understand that your claims of "i can just sign it over".
Entertainment has worked like this for ages. And I cant just sign over my life time ticket to Legoland just because went there last week.

Secondly.
You are pulling info out of your ass again. Games fail all the time because they dont hit the mark. Heavy rain and Enslaved: Odyssey to the West just to mention 2 of the top of my head. You idea that they make is back in the first week is idiotic at best, and with no understanding of the reality of game making.

Also your asinine statement of you can make

pooperloads of what we want to keep to the grave

was just as fucking stupid when Jim Sterling said it. Good games end up getting resold more than bad games. Mention any game you think is "take to the grave quality" and ill find you a copy in the used market.

3rd
How can you not spot the irnoy of your complaints? They are greedy for being able to treat THEIR PROPERTY the way they want, but when you insist that you CAN OWN IT you are just defending as your rights?
How about a little more self awareness?
Can I force you to sell your house? Then you are greedy!
Your logic is fun.

Wow. Sing it.

 

[Drakey]

snipping

On the first one.

You dont understand what is meant by service. You have no right of ownership over services. Everything you are saying there is just hot Air. You have no right to sign over your lease. You need to get that you dont own the services. Once you get that then you will understand that your claims of "i can just sign it over".
Entertainment has worked like this for ages. And I cant just sign over my life time ticket to Legoland just because went there last week.

Secondly.
You are pulling info out of your ass again. Games fail all the time because they dont hit the mark. Heavy rain and Enslaved: Odyssey to the West just to mention 2 of the top of my head. You idea that they make is back in the first week is idiotic at best, and with no understanding of the reality of game making.

Also your asinine statement of you can make

pooperloads of what we want to keep to the grave

was just as fucking stupid when Jim Sterling said it. Good games end up getting resold more than bad games. Mention any game you think is "take to the grave quality" and ill find you a copy in the used market.

3rd
How can you not spot the irnoy of your complaints? They are greedy for being able to treat THEIR PROPERTY the way they want, but when you insist that you CAN OWN IT you are just defending as your rights?
How about a little more self awareness?
Can I force you to sell your house? Then you are greedy!
Your logic is fun.

Also : http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118771-Wil-Wheaton-Announces-Dont-Be-a-Dick-Day

 

[MPerce]

Well, for starters, I would have to own a digital game, rather than just have it rented out to me, right?
Because as of now, none of us (in the US, anyway) actually own our games if they are digital...

 

[Deadyawn]

I don't usually think that anything that is being considered as a possible business venture by an established corporation is outright dumb but...I don't think I can call it anything else. This is dumb, plain and simple. There is no concievable way that this would work without creating even bigger problems than it solves.

I'm sorry, but unless someone can provide me with a compelling argument to the contrary this is going straight to the bottom of my stupid ideas pile.

 

[Fasckira]

Its not 2nd hand/used sales at all, simply reselling your license to the game. Someone decides to "trade" their game in? Just expire their license on whatever digital distribution platform they're using, freeing up a spare key in a large list of available keys GameStop would have.

Anyone whos used in any kind of multiple user license agreement will know exactly how it works (best example would be the MSDN license keys Microsoft dishes out).

I do like the idea that I could somehow get credit/cash back on a digital purchase if I know Im never going to play it again, but they may as well drop the pretence that its 2nd hand/used sales. Thats just clinging on to an old idea for the sake of familiarity.

 

[Epona]

I think what people don't see is that this is really no different than getting a physical disc without a case or manual at Gamestop. The disc itself has no value, it's the data on the disc that matters and since it's digital, it either works or it doesn't, there is no gray area.

You are now left with a scratched disc that doesn't work or a disc that works. Since a scratched disc can be returned for a working one (or a refund), that makes a used disc exactly the same as a digital download.

 

[Something Amyss]

My issue is with GameStop not the retail market.

The problem is, one greatly impacts the other.

Maybe if gamestop was the only retail store but its not. Not only that but Gamestop is the worst priced out of all retail and online stores like amazon/ebay. If gamestop crashed it wouldn't be that big of a loss at all.

It's not the only retail but it's a freaking giant, and more comprehensive than all but the etailers. Etail is a different issue and still has nothing to do with the prevalence of brick and mortar stores.

But it really wouldn't affect most PC gamers at all.

Oh, well then. I stand corrected.