Gaming plot holes

[ToastiestZombie]

This is a thread to discuss the many plot holes that videogames have.

Here's one that really bugged me: If Commander Shephard really wanted to convince the Council of the massive reaper threat then why didn't he just film the many, many times he came in contact with the reapers? A lot of Mass Effect 3 wouldn't have happened if, near the end of ME2, Shephard of one of his crew took out a video camera when they found evidence of the reapers returning.

 

[synobal]

Here is one, in the new Tomb Raider game Lara goes to start a fire she opens a box of matches and it has one match left. She makes this big deal about using it to start a fire. Then 15 minutes later you go to another camp site and the fire is already started and roaring. Kinda ya know convenient.

 

[Toxic Sniper]

There are a few plotholes in Metroid: Other M.

* Why does Samus suddenly magically have post-traumatic stress disorder, and why is this never acknowledged?
* Why did the Federation give their telepathic android super strength?
* Why didn't they give it an off switch?
* Why does Samus not shoot the obviously evil critter even after it has deliberately riled up a nest of wasps? It's not like she has a problem with shooting every other kind of wildlife under the sun.
* Why are there only two dead bodies on a research station where the entire staff was mauled to death by wild animals?
* Why are the Space Pirates mindless in this game when we read their diaries in previous ones?
* Why didn't Adam authorize the Varia Suit until I was at the peak of a freaking volcano?
* Why did the authorization system limit armor or movement upgrades like the Grapple Beam and Gravity Suit?
* If the bad guys had enough clout to insert a traitor in Adam's team to avoid witnesses, why didn't they just order the team not to go? It's not like Adam disobeys orders a lot.
* Why didn't anyone thank Samus for saving the Federation three times? You'd think they'd remember that sort of thing.
* Why is Samus surprised to find another Metroid breeding program on a Federation Research station in Fusion?
* Why didn't Samus mention that the gravity controlling blobface cyborg from Fusion looked awfully familiar?
* Why does Samus's suit come off whenever she loses concentration, even though in Fusion and Prime 3 it was a plot point that her suit stayed on when she fell unconscious?
* Why was an ice beam shot from Adam able to ohko Samus?
* WHY THE HELL DID YOU SHOOT ME IN THE BACK, ADAM?
* Why are unfreezable Metroids such a problem when I killed them easily in Metroid 2, Metroid Prime, and Metroid Prime 3?
* Why does Samus call the traitor a deleter instead of calling him a traitor or a mole or anything that actually makes sense?
* Why does Samus think that reassuring a civilian that she's a bounty hunter will calm the woman down?
* Why does the traitor miss Adam from point-blank range?
* Why did Adam have to go into Sector Zero? I could have just shot a missile in there, or rolled in and laid a power bomb, or used my gunship to shoot missiles at it, or Adam could have jury-rigged a bomb, or we could have just left it alone and let the Federation blow it up like they do at the end of the game.
* Why does MB throw away her gun after she defrosts?
* Why was Anthony able to avoid falling into lava when the only thing he could have landed on was a small inclined icy patch on a lava monster's mouth in a river of lava?
* Why is the Gravity Suit now a Gravity Feature?
* Why was Samus even remotely intimidated by the Federation troops at the end?
* Why was Samus in her Zero-Suit during the escape sequence after the credits?

There, I think that covers about a quarter of them.

 

[Shrack]

With respects to ME2 and camera footage. Given the advanced technology it would have been very easy to fake footage, so why bother. If they didn't belive what Shepard was telling them they woudl not have belived the pictures either. The Council probably would have not belived Shepard unless he dragged a Reaper ship back to show them. And maybe not even then. They seemed really thick about some stuff.

Matches? Lara didn't know there would be a fire already made at that location.

Another M from what I heard is a plothole pretending to be a game. So don't worry about it.

 

[Euryalus]

This is a thread to discuss the many plot holes that videogames have.

Here's one that really bugged me: If Commander Shephard really wanted to convince the Council of the massive reaper threat then why didn't he just film the many, many times he came in contact with the reapers? A lot of Mass Effect 3 wouldn't have happened if, near the end of ME2, Shephard of one of his crew took out a video camera when they found evidence of the reapers returning.

I have one. Why don't the citadel races make generous use of thermonuclear weapons in space warfare and combine it with their other weaponry.

I'll say what I said before.

The large railguns on the ships in mass effect shoot "normal" rounds that when accelerated with mass effect fields can strike with kinetic energy 3 times that produced by the Hiroshima bomb.
A thermonuclear weapon, an "H-bomb," can be built to release a thousand times the energy of a Hiroshima bomb. A Reaper is a match for about 3 Dreadnoughts... That's only 9 times the energy of a Hiroshima bomb if they fire all at once. See where I'm going with this? Rather than using the railgun as a weapon, it can be used as a very quick delivery system for an H-bomb. Most designs would have to changed to a "gun" design (smashing the enriched uranium bits linearly rather than imploding), but, apart from the railgun, that isn't beyond the technological capabilities of today let alone in Mass Effect!

We came to the conclusion that money would be an issue, but the way the council races throw that dough around it probably wouldn't matter if they just reallocated spending.

There I found a way to beat the reapers conventionally. Do I get a medal of honor or something?

 

[Sonic Doctor]

I can't say I've ever been effected by plot holes. If I'm at least somewhat enjoying a story, the plot holes go ignored/filled up by said enjoyment. I've heard/read many people talking about Mass Effect series plot holes, but I never noticed them, it was all too good for me to care.


Really, I tend to ignore plot holes like I do whining school children.

 

[King Aragorn]

Hmm...
Incase Portable Ops from the Metal Gear series is canon, then it makes NO sense how Big Boss didn't use Genes money, and instead was living in a rathole.
But, since I believe it isn't canon, it doesn't bother me too much.

 

[Tom_green_day]

Here's one- Black Ops 2. It's the future, and there aren't any real guns that go pew pew pew? Treyarch, you failed me.

 

[Assassin Xaero]

Here's one- Black Ops 2. It's the future, and there aren't any real guns that go pew pew pew? Treyarch, you failed me.

I get you're joking there, but I really never understood all the "BLops2 is in the future, why don't we have [x], or why is [y] still around?" complaints. Think a lot were that the guns weren't "futuristic" enough. It is 12 years in the future, it isn't that far away.

OT: Most zombie games - where did the zombies come from?

 

[Zetsubou-Sama]

Asari can read minds with their whole mumbo jumbo mental link, the council has an Asari. She didn't even thought of checking Shepard's mind like say Liara.

 

[fezgod]

Here's one- Black Ops 2. It's the future, and there aren't any real guns that go pew pew pew? Treyarch, you failed me.

Yeah I like how in Black Ops 2 (and the first one) all of the time periods are pretty much interchangeable. Even if the "plot" takes place in the 1960s or 2020s, the weapons all appear exactly the same.

But, to stay on topic, plot holes usually only bother me if the story/plot is shit in general or if the game is also pretty bad. Good gameplay, interesting characters or an interesting plot usually cause me to miss plot holes or cause me to not really care.

 

[NearLifeExperience]

Matches? Lara didn't know there would be a fire already made at that location.

An ever burning fire, that upgrades your weapons, trains you new ways to exterminate your fellow men and allows you to teleport to any previously visited campfire elsewhere. Man I wish fire worked like that.

 

[AngryBritishAce]

Firstly, before I continue, I don't care about the ME3 plotholes (bar the ending), because most aren't really that big and every narrative has plotholes like these, it's just the ending caused us to nit-pick in a hope to find more ways to blame ME3 for something (in my honest opinion, I'm sure many people do honestly hate the game, I just don't think it's as bad as everyone says).

With that aside:

[spoiler/] Just before Priority: Earth, the Prothean VI tells Shepard that TIM has contacted the Reapers and told them of their plan to use the citadel. But TIM wasn't like Saren; he never contacted the Reapers or work with them. He was Indoctrinated, but the Reapers didn't directly talk to him. And they didn't use "direct control" either. So why and how did he contact them? He still honestly believes he can control them, despite his indoctrination, so at what point did he say "I will just warn my enemies that a super weapon is about to be used on them, and then I'll go off and use this super weapon once they've moved it"?

And don't forget, Cerberus were at war with the Reapers when they discovered a way to control them on Horizon. It's a small nit-pick I don't understand; if BioWare tried to explain it, it could be believable, but as it stands it just seems illogical on TIM's side. [/spoiler]

 

[TheVampwizimp_v1legacy]

This is a thread to discuss the many plot holes that videogames have.

Here's one that really bugged me: If Commander Shephard really wanted to convince the Council of the massive reaper threat then why didn't he just film the many, many times he came in contact with the reapers? A lot of Mass Effect 3 wouldn't have happened if, near the end of ME2, Shephard of one of his crew took out a video camera when they found evidence of the reapers returning.

With respects to ME2 and camera footage. Given the advanced technology it would have been very easy to fake footage, so why bother. If they didn't belive what Shepard was telling them they woudl not have belived the pictures either. The Council probably would have not belived Shepard unless he dragged a Reaper ship back to show them. And maybe not even then. They seemed really thick about some stuff.

Well, the council seemed to accept it pretty easily when Tali brings them that audio file of Saren mentioning his attack on Eden Prime. Shepard did get there late so maybe they had already authenticated the evidence, but if it's that easy to tell if something is genuine, then why wouldn't they believe video footage given to them by one of their own Spectres?

But more importantly, because it renders moot my previous point, what evidence did Shepard ever come across about the reapers? There was the Sovereign hologram on Virmire, but at that point the council has not really dug in its heels about denying the reapers' existence yet. And besides, it would be easy to claim that was just there as a red herring Saren set up to continue stringing Shepard along.

When in ME2 did they find any evidence of reapers? That thing they encounter at the end as the final boss could have been simply a collector monster; it was only EDI who tells you it's a reaper, and she 1) is an illegal AI that the Council would decompile before having a conversation with, and 2) came to her conclusion using data on reapers that Cerberus supposedly had, another source the Council would never listen to.

Seriously, if they can deny the existence of the reapers when one comes right up to their front door, kicks it down, then explodes inside their house, then they can be willfully ignorant about anything. I think it makes more sense at that point for Shepard to write them off as useless and focus on more important things.

Finally and most importantly, because it again renders moot my previous point, this is not a plot hole. We could argue forever about whether Shepard should have done this or that or whether the Council would accept yadda yadda yadda, but none of that constitutes an actual plot hole. A plot hole only occurs when something happens or does not happen in the plot that directly contradicts something that came previously. It's not enough to simply point out that a character was being stupid when he did A instead of B, or B would make so much more sense for the writer to put in than C; this is not an impossibility in the plot, simply an oversight by either a writer or a character that can be explained and does not cause any paradox or contradiction in the events of the story.

People so overuse this term that it's becoming annoying. In fact, almost nothing mentioned in this thread so far is an actual plot hole.

 

[elvor0]

Hmm...
Incase Portable Ops from the Metal Gear series is canon, then it makes NO sense how Big Boss didn't use Genes money, and instead was living in a rathole.
But, since I believe it isn't canon, it doesn't bother me too much.

Most certainly is canon, but aside from the "guest apperances" from characters that wern't even born then, it's part of Big Bosses story, which includes Snake Eater, Portable Ops, Peace Walker and upcoming Ground Zeroes. I can only assume Big Boss was living in squalor, because he was sort of in hiding and while he was still using Genes funds, as he is in Peace Walker, he was trying not to be found by the Patriots, or at least their precursor to them, so staying under the radar is sort of the most logical choice. I mean he doesn't get Genes funds until the end /anyway/, so anything before that makes perfect sense.

The only games that aren't canon are Ghost Babel and Metal Gear Acid 1/2

 

[Malkav]

Not much of a plothole, but you see it all the time. Especially in Skyrim.

You're entering a dungeon that has been sealed off for centuries. It's clearly evident by all the seals that you're the first adventurer for a long time who enters here.
But somehow, EVERY dungeon is brightly lit by candles and torches. Fresh ones.

Of course, it's a mistake to think for a single second how this makes no sense. It's done so you don't have to carry a torch for 50% of the game. But there's one quest that makes it impossible to not notice this.
You're in a secret part of a castle that hasn't been entered by anyone for centuries, with the possible exception of one person you hope to find here. Again, you find the place brightly lit, fresh blood, partially lived in. You're looking for clues like these, because you want to know wheter that person is still here. Spoiler alert, he/she hasn't been around for another lifetime.

 

[mParadox]

You're in a secret part of a castle that hasn't been entered by anyone for centuries, with the possible exception of one person you hope to find here. Again, you find the place brightly lit, fresh blood, partially lived in. You're looking for clues like these, because you want to know wheter that person is still here. Spoiler alert, he/she hasn't been around for another lifetime.

See this is why I use ENBs, the lighting effects renders the candles moot. Which is when I use my handy dandy lantern mod, which is absolutely awesome and immersive. o3o

And not unlike Legend of Zelda actually. >.>

 

[natster43]

Resident Evil 6:
How after falling several miles down different mine shafts, catacombs and ruins, do Leon and Helena end up falling into a lake or ocean or whatever that is not underground?
Why doesn't the one dude for Homeland Security or whatever he is in just make a apb or whatever for Leon since he is believed to have killed the President?
How does Leon talk to the one chick from 4 on a secure line when she is in a room full of people trying to find where Leon is and arrest him?
How are there zombies in the caves under the lab? The zombie thing had only recently started, and I highly doubt there had been may people in the mines/catacombs that were alive/not just skeletons to get infected.
Why does the C virus do everything that every other virus in the series does?
Why did the zombies wearing chain mail also have sticks of TNT strapped to their chest?
What about the zombie thing you push out of the plane? Those things release a gas that makes more zombies when they die and you just dropped it into a city full of people.

 

[UrinalDook]

Asari can read minds with their whole mumbo jumbo mental link, the council has an Asari. She didn't even thought of checking Shepard's mind like say Liara.

The Council flat out state that they believe that Shepard believes the Reapers are returning. All the asari would gain by 'reading Shepard's mind' (which, technically, they don't actually do) is a garbled vision that even Shepard barely understands, and Shepard's thoughts - his belief - on the Reapers. Everything that Shepard has seen and heard is through the filter of his perception - he sees a hologram call itself a Reaper and talk to him on Virmire, an asari sees that Shepard believes that is proof of the Reapers. But as far as the asari are concerned, that memory, those images are 'corrupted' by Shepard's belief in the Reapers - it might not actually have happened like that.

Firstly, before I continue, I don't care about the ME3 plotholes (bar the ending), because most aren't really that big and every narrative has plotholes like these, it's just the ending caused us to nit-pick in a hope to find more ways to blame ME3 for something (in my honest opinion, I'm sure many people do honestly hate the game, I just don't think it's as bad as everyone says).

With that aside:

[spoiler/] Just before Priority: Earth, the Prothean VI tells Shepard that TIM has contacted the Reapers and told them of their plan to use the citadel. But TIM wasn't like Seran; he didn't contact the Reapers or work with them. He was Indoctrinated, but the Reapers didn't directly talk to him. And they didn't use "direct control" either. So why and how did he contact them? He still honestly believes he can control them, so at what point did he say "I will just warn my enemies that a super weapon is about to be used on them, and then I'll go off and use this super weapon once they've moved it"?

And don't forget, Cerberus were at war with the Reapers when they discovered a way to control them on Horizon. It's a small nit-pick I don't understand; if BioWare tried to explain it, it could be believable, but as it stands it just seems illogical on TIM's side. [/spoiler]

You know, I've never really though about that. As presented, it does seem like something of an awkward contrivance. I suppose I would resolve it in my mind by saying that we don't really know how indoctrination works. The closest we come to finding it is one of the novels, which has some POV text from an indoctrinated human. It pretty much amounts to voices in his head that he can't distinguish from his own thoughts. When Vendetta says TIM 'contacted' the Reapers, he could just mean that TIM allowed the Reapers access to his knowledge of the plan. Given how insidious indoctrination is, and given your points that Cerberus wouldn't actually want the Reapers being forewarned, it could be he didn't realise he was doing it; but to an 'indoctrination detector' like Vendettaa, it was obvious.

Finally and most importantly, because it again renders moot my previous point, this is not a plot hole. We could argue forever about whether Shepard should have done this or that or whether the Council would accept yadda yadda yadda, but none of that constitutes an actual plot hole. A plot hole only occurs when something happens or does not happen in the plot that directly contradicts something that came previously. It's not enough to simply point out that a character was being stupid when he did A instead of B, or B would make so much more sense for the writer to put in than C; this is not an impossibility in the plot, simply an oversight by either a writer or a character that can be explained and does not cause any paradox or contradiction in the events of the story.

People so overuse this term that it's becoming annoying. In fact, almost nothing mentioned in this thread so far is an actual plot hole.

Quoted for friggin' truth, my good sir. If people were a little more accepting that even fictional characters make blindingly obvious mistakes, we'd have a much more harmonious world of discussion.

That said, the Council immediately accepting Tali's evidence has always made me laugh. Not so much because the accept it, more that your biggest doubter up to that point, the turian councillor, has the immediate reaction of loudly proclaiming "THIS EVIDENCE IS IRREFUTABLE!!!". I always wanted to just reply with, "well... actually it isn't. But thanks!" But hey, that just goes to show that all three games have their little flaws, not just the last one.

 

[UrinalDook]

I have one. Why don't the citadel races make generous use of thermonuclear weapons in space warfare and combine it with their other weaponry.

Because thermonuclear weapons don't work in space. At least, they don't work anywhere near as well. Most of the destruction they cause is via a combination of kinetic shock and heat, both of which are transferred through the air. Which is precisely what space lacks. Heat can be transferred in three ways - conduction through a solid, convection through a fluid and radiation. Radiation is by far the least efficient of these, and is the only one applicable through space. Nukes don't produce enough energy to be deadly via radiation alone to a sufficiently shielded target (such as a spaceship, which has to survive constant radiation anyway) in space. That leaves you with the fragments of debris from the missile itself, which won't be anywhere near enough to overwhelm the kinetic barriers of a Reaper.

Essentially, nukes don't work in space because they have nothing to transfer the energy through from detonation to target.

The final nail in the coffin is that even human starships, let alone what the Reapers have, are equipped with lasers that in the opening stages of battle, are 100% effective against incoming missiles [http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Ships_and_Vehicles#Weapons:_GARDIAN].

You could always fire the nukes out of the mass accelerator cannons, I suppose. That would do the base damage of an inert slug, plus the added effects of intense thermal radiation. I'm not sure you'd gain a dramatic increase in destructive potential though. Plus, you're now loading your ships with dozens of nukes. Doesn't sound like a good idea to me. If one of those Reaper lasers slices your ammo dump, the whole ship's going up in smoke.