Gay characters in children's cartoons

[deckai]

You are wrong. If you're going to use science, you should get it right.

Homosexuals exist in nature - all mammals have homosexual members. And those members REPRODUCE. Even before Sperm Banks, gay individuals would still "take one for the team" and have children the old fashioned way. It's a preference, not a rule.

Homosexuality is a desire - it doesn't prevent us from getting pregnant (or from getting someone pregnant) - we just prefer the alternative.

Do research on homosexual animals in the wild. They reproduce.

So please, do not try to spread intolerance or ignorance in the guise of weakly researched science.

First of I never said homosexuality is nonexistent in nature. I'm well aware of the fact that homosexuality exist between animals.

So you say denning ones sexuality is the way to embrace ones sexuality? Because they reproduce in a heterosexual way not a homosexual way. A heterosexual can live his life embracing his sexuality and still produce offspring... a homosexual could not(at least not without help). Also is it possible for a homosexual couple to produce offspring without a third person? A heterosexual couple could, a homosexual couldn't. And without showing me, how you and your partner or any homosexual couple could reproduce without the help of a third party, you fail to disprove my point. It's biological impossible for a homosexual pair to have offspring(only the two people in the relationship, no medical help).

Also only because it occurs in the wild isn't a indicator for everything runs as planned...and don't get me started on that, you won't like it.

And please don't accuse me of being intolerant or ignorant, maybe you just ignored or just didn't bother to read the rest of my post. In NO way I'm opposed to homosexuality, people can live their sexuality out the way they want.

Maybe we have different definitions what "homosexuality" is or maybe I just fail to express my point(English isn't my first language).

 

[SteewpidZombie]

As a kid I knew Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street were gay, yet I never had a problem with it

Wow... Ernie and Bert were brothers. Not gay, just brothers. Word of God, Jim Henson said so himself.

If that's the case...then that explains ALOT...cause about 99% of the people I talk to say that they were gay lovers XD

 

[Mordwyl]

All there needs to be said.

 

[deserteagleeye]

I don't know if it's a bad sign but, I can actually name more openly gay characters in videogames than I can regular TV-shows. And most of them aren't necessarily flamboyant about it either. :/

 

[brinvixen]

I haven't read this entire thread (sorry, 8 pages is a whole lot) so pardon me if someone has already touched upon this, but I think Spongebob handles homosexuality rather carefully in a few of it's earlier episodes.

For example, there's an episode where Spongebob and Patrick adopt a baby mollusk, and as a result, they take on roles as Mommy and Daddy. Complete with Spongebob wearing drag (curlers and a nightgown). Here's a situation that is "normally" (the word in quotes for a reason) attributed to a man and a women, and in the episode we have two men on the job, with one acting as the mother. Is this so different to what actual gay couples do? (Maybe one doesn't necessarily take on a "mother" role, but you get the idea) And the episode was still just as funny, and just as silly, and kid-oriented as any other, but it explored a different theme to parenting. If more children shows could do this (or Spongebob could go back to being good, instead of brainless) and could do this just as tastefully, then why not have these kind of themes explored in children shows? Maybe if kids grow up seeing that its okay for a girl to like a girl, or a boy to like a boy, they'll be mindful in the future not to pick on someone for their sexuality choice.

And if you're one of those people who believe that homosexuality can be indoctrinated into another person, and therefore showing kids gay characters is going to make them gay, then you're just silly.

 

[loremazd]

Honestly I think forcing kids to deal with hotopic issues against their will is kinda goofy.

 

[chaosyoshimage]

I don't think I've ever posted here, maybe once or twice. I read articles and webcomics here all the time and sometimes click an article if I'm interested in it. As a not-so-straight man and a huge cartoon nerd, this one interested me. When I was kid growing up I watched a lot of cartoons and played a lot of video games to except the harsh reality life sucks and the characters in these where my role models. My parents are great parents and never tried to shove any of their own ideology down my throat but kids at school did. I remember becoming religious and hating the very idea of "gays".

I think I would have avoided that horrible phase of my life if there where some openly gay characters in kid's cartoons. It would teach tolerance, obviously, I'm disheartened that it's even a debate here. To me, it's like saying there shouldn't be any blacks on TV or anyone who's Jewish. The whole "Well Gays=Sex" nonsense is the most irritating of all, not all relationships are about sex, especially none of the previously existing relationships in kid's cartoons.

Also, I really need to get around to watching My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic...

 

[KirbyKrackle]

It's in a different medium, but Archie Comics recently added an openly gay character to their roster. I only bring it up here because, as far as I'm aware, Archie Comics is still well known as wholesome kids' stuff that's about as controversial as, well, a very uncontroversial thing. I can still recall being given them to read as a quite young child. I think if they can manage it without causing a global apocalypse, children's shows can too. It also doesn't seem to have created an epidemic of children wanting to know about sex either.

EDIT: I also think it's worth bringing up because the gay character is revealed to be gay without all that "ooh ick he's talking about sex won't someone think of the children now I have to give them THE TALK" nonsense some of you are so paranoid about, as well as rebutting the hilarious argument of "but how will we know someone's gay if they aren't an odious stereotype?" which shows that it can pretty easily be repeated with other entertainment media.

New Guy: "She's not so bad...I'm just not interested in dating her!"
Jughead: "Veronica's not going to let that stop her!"
New Guy: "It's nothing against her! I'm gay!"

Oh no, he mentioned dating! Yeah, that's so much more sexualized than your average Archie comic.
Hell, as previously mentioned, same-sex attraction has come up before in children's cartoons like Sailor Moon without traumatizing the poor, innocent little children.

And as for all that hand-wringing, you might as well ask that shows like Rugrats be taken off the air because uh-oh, the kiddies might wonder where babies come from! How scandalously sexualized that TV show is.

 

[Baneat]

I think you guys are over shooting this. Being straight is biologically normal. Should we not present that as a norm? Yes, homosexuality is a part of life, but we dont need to stuff it into entertainment for the hell of it. Especially a kid's show. If a kid is going to be gay, let them find that out for themselves instead of doing it because this character from this show is gay.

Edit: Plus, i dont want to have to explain ANYTHING about sex to my children. Keep it simple.

You don't need to explain anything about sex - explain about love.

Also...

Being straight is biologically normal? Um, no. Homosexuality exists all throughout nature. Homosexuality is as biologically "normal" as heterosexuality.

Please don't make such ignorant and offensive statements.

>implying that "being natural" is relevant in any way at all.
You don't even have to address that at all, it's a worthless argument.

 

[killcannon71]

I'm all for it. Gay it up as much as possible. The more homosexuals there are the more females for me.

 

[Stako]

Actually yes, it does bother me, this idea... because most people are not smart enough to work the character as it has to be worked out and the chances of him turning out parodycal, silly or twisted are pretty good... which is bad. But those people are probobly doing this just because they are afraid that if they do theyre job on this character right some one will start complaining 'he is gay' - thus the taboo aspect of the subject.

I havent watched the cartoon you are talking about, but I just wanted to have a nice conversation, so I answered the first question anyway.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

Also is it possible for a homosexual couple to produce offspring without a third person? A heterosexual couple could, a homosexual couldn't. And without showing me, how you and your partner or any homosexual couple could reproduce without the help of a third party, you fail to disprove my point. It's biological impossible for a homosexual pair to have offspring(only the two people in the relationship, no medical help).

What does that have to do with anything? Again: that simply means that same-sex couples only have children when they actually want to. (Medical and third-party involvement is irrelevant.)

And if you're one of those people who believe that homosexuality can be indoctrinated into another person, and therefore showing kids gay characters is going to make them gay, then you're just silly.

I think their real worry is that portraying it as acceptable in the media will make it harder to indoctrinate hate into said kids. But that's just my cheap 2¢.

Honestly I think forcing kids to deal with hotopic issues against their will is kinda goofy.

What makes you think it's necessarily against their will? Or, for that matter, forced?

 

[Dr. wonderful]

Robert Simmons [http://heyarnold.wikia.com/wiki/Robert_Simmons] was gay on the tv show. Hey! Arnold.

I just wanted to put that out there, also he was my favorite character because he was super nice.

 

[internetzealot1]

Having a "gay" character would bring attention to the fact that that character is having sex with other men. Bringing attention to the sex part isn't a good strategy for a kid's cartoon.

 

[Lilani]

-snip-

I think, if anything, children's cartoons should focus on the general acceptance of gays as equals. A "token gay character" could be easily mishandled, or come across as stereotypical or just plain distasteful. They should definitely steer clear of those stereotypes, and approach the topic in a very natural way. Like have just a couple of good friends decide they want to date, and go through the whole cycle--going on dates, fighting and then making up. Just take what they already know about relationships at that age and apply it to two characters of the same sex.

The main problem, though, is that homosexuality is still very much a moral issue in the eyes of a lot of people. You can bet that as soon as any show were to put out and episode like that, it will be blacklisted by many religious organizations and lots of public places may even stop carrying the channel it's on, just to avoid the controversy. If that were to happen, there's a good possibility the episode would never be aired again, and the show could even be canceled altogether.

It would be a big risk to take, one which I'm not sure anyone is willing to make in this economy. I hope it does happen in my lifetime, though. It would be a very interesting thing to see unfold.

 

[Bambi Puce]

As a kid I knew Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street were gay, yet I never had a problem with it

Wow... Ernie and Bert were brothers. Not gay, just brothers. Word of God, Jim Henson said so himself.

I like that Jim Henson speaks the Word of God.

Yeah, I wish that was how that phrase was meant to be taken... I spend a lot of time on TVTropes, and the phrase 'Word of God' means whoever created the product has descended from on high to give a definite answer to whatever query plagues our poor brains.

 

[Easton Dark]

Having a "gay" character would bring attention to the fact that that character is having sex with other men. Bringing attention to the sex part isn't a good strategy for a kid's cartoon.

They don't have to be having sex though. Heterosexual relationships in kid's shows arn't about sex at all (atleast I hope not).

Also it's not just men who could be gay.

 

[Pyrokinesis]

I think you guys are over shooting this. Being straight is biologically normal. Should we not present that as a norm? Yes, homosexuality is a part of life, but we dont need to stuff it into entertainment for the hell of it. Especially a kid's show. If a kid is going to be gay, let them find that out for themselves instead of doing it because this character from this show is gay.

Edit: Plus, i dont want to have to explain ANYTHING about sex to my children. Keep it simple.

You don't need to explain anything about sex - explain about love.

Also...

Being straight is biologically normal? Um, no. Homosexuality exists all throughout nature. Homosexuality is as biologically "normal" as heterosexuality.

Please don't make such ignorant and offensive statements.

Please dont spit fire at him for thinking,

From the standpoint of it being natural, he is right on that fact. It may occur in nature alot but we were naturally built for sexual intercourse and relations with the opposite gender, we were not designed or naturally intended for homosexuality but obviously it does occur. Things like this happen alot when nothing is copied perfectly and genes are blended or the pilot behind the body has a preference not socially normal to it current host.(depending on your view of mental capacities Biology Programing Vs Soul Influences)

Homosexuality is not actually natural, from a biological standpoint (dont bite me im talking on a pure, animalistic standpoint) because it is un-productive to the species. Copulation does not occur in same sex couples obviously and homosexuality serves no animalistic purpose beyond pleasure.

I dont want to incite any major firestorms but i get the feeling it will happen regardless of my forewarning, but if you take the Biological Programming concept to why it is we do what we do then homosexuality is actually referred to as a genetic defect. (I can feel the fire already....)

Now if you take the Soul Influence concept then homosexuality is considered a soul preference on what gender your soul prefers to mate with. (some would argue that mateing and gender preference are not stored in the soul, that the soul stores more simple preferences like morals and values only)

My opinion on it all, I really dont care who you choose to do it with but it should be your own choice not influenced for or against by anyone. We should not bring up anything pertaining to sexual orientation to children AT ALL in ANY way. They are simply too young to be able to comprehend such decisions yet and should not be influenced for or against.