Gay characters in children's cartoons

[k-ossuburb]

Am I straight because Bugs Bunny loved the ladies?

I'm sorry, I'm not here to disagree with you but that made me laugh. Bugs Bunny frequently dressed up as a female, he's actually a better as an example for asking if watching the Bugs Bunny Loony Toons made you a cross-dresser. In fact, I seem to remember Garth saying: "Did you ever find Bugs Bunny attractive when he put on a dress and played girl bunny?" in Wayne's World as a joke about sexual confusion.

Anyway, the person who you were responding to needs to get out more and stop watching from Fox News for a while. Seriously, "biologically normal"? What the hell is that? Luckily you and some other people have already put them firmly in their place, so there's no need for me to reply to that kind of ignorant bigotry.

OT: Personally, even though I think that it's a good idea that there are more gay characters in childrens television I don't know if it's possible to actually implement it in any way. As far as I know, childrens T.V. shows don't have a lot of stake in subtlety (please prove me wrong on this if you can, though) so a gay character would either be OTT or completely redundant, I don't think there are many producers out there that can handle this in the correct way without either playing it down so much that nobody notices or overplaying it so much that it becomes offensive to the LGBT community and the intelligence of whoever is watching it.

Just taking an example you brought up. My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic is a great show, I've loved every episode but even that does not have a huge stake in subtlety, it does better than most shows but the message of each episode still needs to be spelled out at the end when Twilight Sparkle writes her letters to Princess Celestia just in case there's someone out there who didn't quite understand the point they were making.

I'm not against this approach, it's very effective, but it still shows that things need to be explained in kids TV for their target audience to properly absorb the message or to understand certain traits of a character.

I'm not saying homosexuality is something to be ashamed of and needs to be hidden away under layers of character building, I'm just saying that it's very difficult to get that fine balance where you have a character that's entertaining and interesting who just so happens to be gay without pointing directly at that particular trait of that character and making it too obvious. If that makes any kind of sense at all.

Anyway, feel free to correct me if I have made any errors or if I've not articulated my thoughts correctly. I just got off work and I'm a little tired, stupid 4am shifts.

 

[Tehlanna TPX]

If they don't care, why would you shove that concept right into their faces?

For the same reason that most of life's realities are shown in children's cartoons... so they can, you know, be prepared/understand reality?

And going back to the reply you gave me previously, what is the 'cost of the children' you are so afraid of paying?

 

[Akalistos]

The future is in the children and i think that it would be a great idea to include gay characters in children cartoon, but it has to be done in the right way like it's just apart of who they are nothing more. If we can get that right then this nation of "equality" can finaly be a nation of equality.

Why do we need to put Sexuality into cartoon. They are, at the base, intended for children. Kid between 4 to 10. At this stage of life, they don't really have sexuality and they don't care. The sexual "revelation" come later when the body start to change. At this point, they would prefer Tween show from both side, and not cartoon. So, Like that, Why should we force kid that still doesn't understand or care to pay attention and choose their orientation. Couldn't we just let them develop like intended by nature? I think J.K. ROWLING did it best with Dumbledore when she reveal he is gay without shoving it into the people's faces. It's good to know that it's not enforced on the child and is only intended as a wink for the older crowd.

Cartoon isn't the place to showcase sexuality in any ways. It should be handle by material intended to the teen demographic.

Yeah, I got lazy repeating myself.

 

[Rblade]

I'm pretty sure children under a certain age, probably 12 or something. Don't really notice.

You don't care about it, since you have no interest whatsoever in sex (at least ussually) you don't care about wether someone is gay. At best a child might notice, "that man seems really happy" or something like that. And if they are told they don't mind.

same goes for race, a child couldn't care less if the person he is looking at is white, brown, black or asian.

So it's best to just let them be diverse, then thats what children will grow to assume as normal.

If they don't care, why would you shove that concept right into their faces?

as long as it doesn't contain seks, which I'm pretty sure no childrens cartoon does. like I said, the more diversity they are exposed to, the more normal they will find diversity too. And who can be against a culture where nobody is getting shouted at for being different.

 

[Akalistos]

If they don't care, why would you shove that concept right into their faces?

For the same reason that most of life's realities are shown in children's cartoons... so they can, you know, be prepared/understand reality?

And going back to the reply you gave me previously, what is the 'cost of the children' you are so afraid of paying?

Not really, children oriented show mostly showcase virtue that one should posses in dealing with other and not show life reality... at least when it's not a PSA. Most of them, from X-men to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle, From Barbie to ... Another girl oriented show, show life lesson like: Caring, Not being a jerk to others, sharing, making friend, being loyal, listening to parent. It fair to say that those life lesson are shown, but life reality is far from the equation. Specially when the heroes can Shoot lasers or are Undead Mummies from Egypt.

And to answer you other question, you can "fuck" a child psyche that way. Some, if not a major part of pedophile, was introduce to sexuality in a early stage of their childhood. Kid that get abuse often because abuser of children. That's but one reason, if not the biggest not to rush thing.

 

[Akalistos]

I'm pretty sure children under a certain age, probably 12 or something. Don't really notice.

You don't care about it, since you have no interest whatsoever in sex (at least ussually) you don't care about wether someone is gay. At best a child might notice, "that man seems really happy" or something like that. And if they are told they don't mind.

same goes for race, a child couldn't care less if the person he is looking at is white, brown, black or asian.

So it's best to just let them be diverse, then thats what children will grow to assume as normal.

If they don't care, why would you shove that concept right into their faces?

as long as it doesn't contain seks, which I'm pretty sure no childrens cartoon does. like I said, the more diversity they are exposed to, the more normal they will find diversity too. And who can be against a culture where nobody is getting shouted at for being different.

I assume you mean Sex, but no. If you put sexuality into children cartoon, you CAN'T really done it without the Sex aspect. Like light and dark, you need to introduce them to sex before getting to the orientations. You may tries as you like, but you wouldn't be able to define sexuality without sex, because they are the same concept to begin with.

 

[Tehlanna TPX]

snip

.......
Are you seriously equating children's cartoons with sexual molestation/rape/abuse?

I'm not going to reply to anything else you say. I'm sorry, but that is an offensive analogy.

 

[Akalistos]

snip

.......
Are you seriously equating children's cartoons with sexual molestation/rape/abuse?

I'm not going to reply to anything else you say. I'm sorry, but that is an offensive analogy.

Never said it had to be those. Just giving a Playboy or making a kid watch a porno movie can do the exact same thing, which is something you seem adamant to do in children's cartoon.

 

[HalfTangible]

Personally i don't think relationships beyond 'friends' should be shown in children's shows, period, because they shouldn't exist, PERIOD, before the teen age when they start stealing porn from Dad's toilet magazine collection.

(Don't look at me like that - you know it happens)

Children are going to see relationships anyway, from the people around them to super hero cartoons (which despite popular belief are not aimed at children - see 'Birds of Prey' and JL) I don't see why they need to be rushed.

 

[Tehlanna TPX]

snip

.......
Are you seriously equating children's cartoons with sexual molestation/rape/abuse?

I'm not going to reply to anything else you say. I'm sorry, but that is an offensive analogy.

Never said it had to be those. Just giving a Playboy or making a kid watch a porno movie can do the exact same thing, which is something you seem adamant to do in children's cartoon.

...

I never said put a sex act in a cartoon. Stop shoving words in my mouth. -.-

 

[ABLb0y]

More gay characters in children's cartoons? Marvelous idea, as long as it's seen as positive, and not all of them are stereotypes.

 

[Akalistos]

snip

.......
Are you seriously equating children's cartoons with sexual molestation/rape/abuse?

I'm not going to reply to anything else you say. I'm sorry, but that is an offensive analogy.

Never said it had to be those. Just giving a Playboy or making a kid watch a porno movie can do the exact same thing, which is something you seem adamant to do in children's cartoon.

...

I never said put a sex act in a cartoon. Stop shoving words in my mouth. -.-

Thing is, you can't really teach Sexual orientation to kid without teaching sex, with is, by itself intertwine and indissociable.

 

[HalfTangible]

snip

.......
Are you seriously equating children's cartoons with sexual molestation/rape/abuse?

I'm not going to reply to anything else you say. I'm sorry, but that is an offensive analogy.

Never said it had to be those. Just giving a Playboy or making a kid watch a porno movie can do the exact same thing, which is something you seem adamant to do in children's cartoon.

...

I never said put a sex act in a cartoon. Stop shoving words in my mouth. -.-

Aka said, quote, "If you put sexuality into children cartoon, you CAN'T really done it without the Sex aspect. Like light and dark, you need to introduce them to sex before getting to the orientations."

He/She is basing it off of that.

 

[Akalistos]

snip

.......
Are you seriously equating children's cartoons with sexual molestation/rape/abuse?

I'm not going to reply to anything else you say. I'm sorry, but that is an offensive analogy.

Never said it had to be those. Just giving a Playboy or making a kid watch a porno movie can do the exact same thing, which is something you seem adamant to do in children's cartoon.

...

I never said put a sex act in a cartoon. Stop shoving words in my mouth. -.-

Aka said, quote, "If you put sexuality into children cartoon, you CAN'T really done it without the Sex aspect. Like light and dark, you need to introduce them to sex before getting to the orientations."

He/She is basing it off of that.

Thank's HalfTangible, but I can do it on my own. Feel free to agree or disagree with me and tell me why.
*Pat Halftangible on the shoulder*
By the way, I'm a HE and a proud member of the BRONIES!

 

[Tehlanna TPX]

Aka said, quote, "If you put sexuality into children cartoon, you CAN'T really done it without the Sex aspect. Like light and dark, you need to introduce them to sex before getting to the orientations."

He/She is basing it off of that.

Thanks for the clarification!

 

[Belbe]

I think characters like these help kids who do happen to feel they are different, as they can relate to them and not feel like they're somehow wrong. It's clear all the messages we send our kids subconciously that heterosexuality is the only "natural" way doesn't stop people from being gay, so it's not like things like this will "make kids gay" either. And now society is on the mend to treat these people as equals naturally we should mirror that equally even in areas such as childhood education. There are other factors involved ofcourse that would need to be worked out in order to keep it appropriate and not promote homosexuality, but I feel in general there should be atleast some accomodation...

Either way, we're well at the age where standard stereotypes and "normality" should be broken to promote fairness and liberty in areas of self identity, surely...

 

[Eatbrainz]

No gay role models in cartoons?
What about Spongebob Squarepants?

 

[Treblaine]

I think it's important to have proportional representation but homosexuals only make up 1-2% of the population. It's entirely possible that you could have a main-cast of 10 characters with reasonably only a 1-in-10 chance that any of them are gay. And I mean gay as in exclusive interest in same gender, insignificant interest in opposite gender.

So I think you'd have to go pretty far to have a "lack" of gay characters.

If you stretch the definition of homosexuality to include anyone with ANY even transient same-sex attraction it goes up from 2% to around 30% even though most of those individuals have mostly heterosexual relations. Though strictly such individuals would be described as bisexuals and many more would fit into another category of heterosexual.

I personally think it is far more important to represent bisexual relationships, there are about 10x as many of them as people with exclusively heterosexual.

I also think this is valuable as it creates a bridge between gay and straight people. Gays in cartoons, films, whatever, should not be treated like klingons or some alien and highly separate species. It needs to be represented that there is a wide and continuous variety of human sexual variation.

I'd like to see a story where the straight-as-straight hero, adventuring with his girlfriend he is deeply in love with meets his old boyfriend. I'd like to see them deal with that, how betrayed the boyfriend may (wrongly) feel and so to for his girlfriend.

Counter-Argument
Then again. Ninja warriors are not very representative of the population yet they are included in many cartoons because they are INTERESTING. Maybe gay characters should be represented more than their proportion in population simply because they are more interesting for the drama of storytelling. Well I can agree with that but ONLY IF ACTUALLY INTERESTING!

Putting in gay characters just for the hell of it, that's lazy and comes across as pandering for a wider audience.

You want to see more gay character into show... because you are a adult and already defined your preference. Keep in mind that we are talking about Cartoon, a medium meant for children from 4 to 10. At this stage of evolution, they don't need to get pressured into choosing what orientation they gonna be. To be perfectly frank, they don't care. Not to say that they do not understand, but that's akin to forcing them to grow up in a rather nasty way. Sexuality is a topic that must be educated when it become important in the life of individual and that's during his teenage years, when his body start to change and he's ready for such a thing. By that point, don't you think that Teen show will be more their speed?

I find it pretty sickening to see people preference and sense of morality dictate something that is and never will be directed to them. Leave the kids alone.

Well there is more to this than telling kids what is right for them to do in terms of who they want to be with but there is another aspect of this:

"how should we treat and react to homosexuality"

Say some Kung-Fu cartoon, the characters meet two men who are married to each other. That just acknowledges that such relations exist and the heroes could demonstrate the appropriate way to approach this: Be respectful and not gawp at them like they are some freak show.

Don't have to show them kissing or anything, just demonstrate that there are people of the same gender who love each other like their parents love each other.

You could have a moral with some character who says "well I was taught that it's wrong"

and could learn "it may be against my beliefs, but I must respect other people and recognise that it's wrong to force my beliefs on them especially when it hurts them"

So in summary there is a difference between:
(1) telling kids how they should view the opposite gender
and
(2) telling kids how they should TREAT those who like the same gender

You could do this by analogy. For example the whole X-men franchise has always been the biggest veiled allegory for homosexual discrimination:
-"I was born this way"
-the differences appear around puberty
-parents saying "have you tried no being mutant?"
-Fascist anti-mutant type rallies

But sometimes that's a bit too subtle, kids who watch that cartoon will get the message "it's bad to victimise people because their genes made them different" yet the same generation bullies gay teenagers to the point of suicide then gloat over it.

Sometimes you have to face the issue directly.

That probably means gay characters in cartoons. Not the main cast, nothing explicit but something bullies cannot ignore.

 

[BringBackBuck]

Thing is, you can't really teach Sexual orientation to kid without teaching sex, with is, by itself intertwine and indissociable.

Nonsense. Children from a very early age learn about sexual orientation well before they get to the act of sex. They learn through real world observation, TV, books, etc. All this media will involve traditional heterosexual partnerships (prince & princess, mummy & daddy, Santa Claus & Mrs Claus, Mickey & Minnie mouseetc). I would say that by the time a child is 3 or 4 years old, whilst understanding absolutely nothing about sex or sexual intercourse, will have a very clear idea of what a 'normal' relationship is.

Ask most 4 year olds to draw a picture of what a family looks like. What do you think they will produce?