Gay characters in children's cartoons

[Pedro The Hutt]

You want to see more gay character into show... because you are a adult and already defined your preference. Keep in mind that we are talking about Cartoon, a medium meant for children from 4 to 10. At this stage of evolution, they don't need to get pressured into choosing what orientation they gonna be. To be perfectly frank, they don't care. Not to say that they do not understand, but that's akin to forcing them to grow up in a rather nasty way. Sexuality is a topic that must be educated when it become important in the life of individual and that's during his teenage years, when his body start to change and he's ready for such a thing. By that point, don't you think that Teen show will be more their speed?

I find it pretty sickening to see people preference and sense of morality dictate something that is and never will be directed to them. Leave the kids alone.

Here's a news flash for you, you are ~born into~ your sexual orientation, it's not a conscious decision, you simply are born straight, gay or bi. You don't choose it, you are it.

And that said, homosexual characters in children's entertainment goes back at least 15 years. In Sailor Moon there were two lesbian characters, and that goes all the way back to the early 90s (in Japan) and was very much aimed at young girls.

Edit: And now that I think about it, Ranma ½ throws sexuality ~and~ gender completely into a blender, to hilarious effect.

 

[HalfTangible]

You want to see more gay character into show... because you are a adult and already defined your preference. Keep in mind that we are talking about Cartoon, a medium meant for children from 4 to 10. At this stage of evolution, they don't need to get pressured into choosing what orientation they gonna be. To be perfectly frank, they don't care. Not to say that they do not understand, but that's akin to forcing them to grow up in a rather nasty way. Sexuality is a topic that must be educated when it become important in the life of individual and that's during his teenage years, when his body start to change and he's ready for such a thing. By that point, don't you think that Teen show will be more their speed?

I find it pretty sickening to see people preference and sense of morality dictate something that is and never will be directed to them. Leave the kids alone.

Here's a news flash for you, you are ~born into~ your sexual orientation, it's not a conscious decision, you simply are born straight, gay or bi. You don't choose it, you are it.

And that said, homosexual characters in children's entertainment goes back at least 15 years. In Sailor Moon there were two lesbian characters, and that goes all the way back to the early 90s (in Japan) and was very much aimed at young girls.

Edit: And now that I think about it, Ranma ½ throws sexuality ~and~ gender completely into a blender, to hilarious effect.

Here's a news flash for YOU: Nobody is attracted to ANYBODY at such a young age. While your sexuality may be an inborn trait (such as puberty) it doesn't show at 4 years old.

In addition, the idea that it can't be changed if you don't want to... it absolutely disgusts me. Once you're grown up, maybe it can't change. Till then, it's nurturing that chooses what you become. NOT. NATURE.

snip

.......
Are you seriously equating children's cartoons with sexual molestation/rape/abuse?

I'm not going to reply to anything else you say. I'm sorry, but that is an offensive analogy.

Never said it had to be those. Just giving a Playboy or making a kid watch a porno movie can do the exact same thing, which is something you seem adamant to do in children's cartoon.

...

I never said put a sex act in a cartoon. Stop shoving words in my mouth. -.-

Aka said, quote, "If you put sexuality into children cartoon, you CAN'T really done it without the Sex aspect. Like light and dark, you need to introduce them to sex before getting to the orientations."

He/She is basing it off of that.

Thank's HalfTangible, but I can do it on my own. Feel free to agree or disagree with me and tell me why.
*Pat Halftangible on the shoulder*
By the way, I'm a HE and a proud member of the BRONIES!

DON'T TOUCH ME *foaming at the mouth, snarling*

 

[LogicNProportion]

First off, the fact that the first three posters (including OP) were Bronies made me die a little inside...

Second, just gonna say, it's stuff like this that makes my GSA (Gay-Straight Alliance, which I am a founding member of) laugh our knickers off because of how RWAR stuff like this gets on such unfounded crap. Neither Haku or Rainbow Dash (Though the second does raise an eyebrow, doesn't it?) are confirmed in any such way to be homosexual. What we have here is called ambiguity.

Haku likes to cross-dress, doesn't make him gay. Hell, Teddy Roosevelt was a VERY secretive cross-dresser, and the man was straight as a line on the X-Axis. (I'm in school, math on the brain.) It's obvious he looks feminine, so maybe he looks off in more 'manly' attire. Who knows? As for his relationship with Zabuza, it looks much more like a father-son kind of thing, as Zabuza seems to have little regard in the end for the boy. If they WERE bumping uglies, Imma jump the shark and say that Zabuza was a pedophile, and Haku never knew it any other way.

And as for this gentleman's post:

I think you guys are over shooting this. Being straight is biologically normal. Should we not present that as a norm? Yes, homosexuality is a part of life, but we dont need to stuff it into entertainment for the hell of it. Especially a kid's show. If a kid is going to be gay, let them find that out for themselves instead of doing it because this character from this show is gay.

Edit: Plus, i dont want to have to explain ANYTHING about sex to my children. Keep it simple.

While 'normal' is always subjective, and majority/minority is a much more preferred phrase, you guys criticized him for using it, while you yourselves used the term multiple times in your argument. As is, the true definition of 'normal' is and I quote from my trusty Webster's Dictionary:

conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular

So as such, majority does indeed mean normal in most cases, at least, if we're going strictly definitive here. The fact of the matter is, is that there is more straight people than gay people on the planet and so:

majority = norm

Another reason he could have used it is because of reproduction, one of the several factors as required for something to be alive, a usual human being. Now, I am all too aware that gay people are, in fact, thankfully, alive. (If not, I'm bi, does that make me undead or something?) They have the ability to have children, they simply often do not exercise the ability due to their sexual appetites, as I have never seen a legit butt-baby.

Bottom line, don't be so harsh on the man. I know myself, nor any of the gay people that are helping me type this up as we 'speak' are taking any offense to his comment. His statement was not ignorant, merely subjective.

Now if you'll excuse us, we must go bake some cakes for our GSA Monthly Picnic for this weekend.

Peace!

-LnP

PS. We do agree that people of homosexual and bisexual and even heterosexual tastes should find out their sexual preferences on their own. Such a thing is very important and needs to be learned through experience and from forming your own ideals. We like sexual jokes in cartoons, Hell, we're all in the gutter, but you shouldn't take such a lesson that's possibly about yourself from the medium. That's just dumb.

 

[Ekonk]

Sexuality in children's shows.... no....

Gays in children's shows... absolutely not... Believe me, it's best for both sides... For once, trying to instill that gay is a valid choice is wrong... for the other hand, you do realize that gays would be shown as flamboyant weirdos in most shows.

LOL, you used the word "choice" when referring to sexuality, and also the word "wrong". Bigot.

<youtube=rx8zMBQaZjQ>

 

[Akalistos]

You want to see more gay character into show... because you are a adult and already defined your preference. Keep in mind that we are talking about Cartoon, a medium meant for children from 4 to 10. At this stage of evolution, they don't need to get pressured into choosing what orientation they gonna be. To be perfectly frank, they don't care. Not to say that they do not understand, but that's akin to forcing them to grow up in a rather nasty way. Sexuality is a topic that must be educated when it become important in the life of individual and that's during his teenage years, when his body start to change and he's ready for such a thing. By that point, don't you think that Teen show will be more their speed?

I find it pretty sickening to see people preference and sense of morality dictate something that is and never will be directed to them. Leave the kids alone.

Well there is more to this than telling kids what is right for them to do in terms of who they want to be with but there is another aspect of this:

"how should we treat and react to homosexuality"

Say some Kung-Fu cartoon, the characters meet two men who are married to each other. That just acknowledges that such relations exist and the heroes could demonstrate the appropriate way to approach this: Be respectful and not gawp at them like they are some freak show.Don't have to show them kissing or anything, just demonstrate that there are people of the same gender who love each other like their parents love each other.

You could have a moral with some character who says "well I was taught that it's wrong"

and could learn "it may be against my beliefs, but I must respect other people and recognise that it's wrong to force my beliefs on them especially when it hurts them"

Do you realize they are achieved another way? They all have a strong anti-discrimination moral. Those thing are approach in kid shows already, often by bringing a character the main cast is afraid of then discover they shouldn't have treated him like that. It's not how to treat or react to homosexuality as much as TOLERANCE.

You could do this by analogy. For example the whole X-men franchise has always been the biggest veiled allegory for homosexual discrimination:
-"I was born this way"
-the differences appear around puberty
-parents saying "have you tried no being mutant?"
-Fascist anti-mutant type rallies

But sometimes that's a bit too subtle, kids who watch that cartoon will get the message "it's bad to victimise people because their genes made them different" yet the same generation bullies gay teenagers to the point of suicide then gloat over it.

But that still a problem of tolerance. Thing is, yes... X-men is a allegory for homosexuality. A damn good one, but you need to understand that you cannot introduce the concept of sexuality to kid without sex and the crowd it attract are kid that aren't in their puberty yet. Sex isn't in the equation because not only is it wrong and force AND Speed the development of the child but also of his sexuality. I see this a slapping a kid in the face when he comeback from elementary school and told him to choose between boys and girls or his life is forfeit. In this case, the child wouldn't be receptive to the message without completely disturbing him.

Sometimes you have to face the issue directly.

I agree, but there's better ways. For example, Suspension for any kid calling another one gay. It not only penalize the kid who misbehave but also force the parent to notice those thing and actually put a stop to it. Hell, There's no better way to make some backward or retarted or lazy parents to react they discover that their kid will fail his classes and need to redo another years because he was a douche at school. You don't get more sensatize when it hit your wallet. And that, is something the bully won't be able to ignore.

 

[Dastardly]

I think you guys are over shooting this. Being straight is biologically normal. Should we not present that as a norm? Yes, homosexuality is a part of life, but we dont need to stuff it into entertainment for the hell of it. Especially a kid's show. If a kid is going to be gay, let them find that out for themselves instead of doing it because this character from this show is gay.

I think people should be able to feel secure in their sexuality. If a kid turn out gay, they'll often be teased and hated for it, because it's not the norm. If they put gay characters in cartoons it will probably become more acceptable with time to be gay.

Kids with CP or Down's syndrome or a club foot are also not the norm, but does that mean we have to individually work every possible difference/handicap/etc. into every cartoon to account for that? Of course not. And it wouldn't work, anyway. Look, people are mean. They're mean to the kid with glasses, and when the teasing starts, his eye is just as blackened as the "gay kid."

But what's the bigger issue here is this: If the whole idea is that homosexuality is normal, or that we want it to be normal, how do you propose to indicate a character is homosexual? Is there a uniform pattern of behavior--dress, speech, etc.? Or do we have to shoehorn romances into kids cartoons, where there typically aren't many? The only way to guarantee that you get something like that across to kids is either to blatantly have that character announce "I'm gay!" on a regular basis (which certainly doesn't present any sort of "normalcy"), or to typecast the character as gay via several of the behavioral stereotypes we associate with homosexuality (girls playing softball/golf, guys liking dance--as though all gay people share these interests--and so on).

Also...

Being straight is biologically normal? Um, no. Homosexuality exists all throughout nature. Homosexuality is as biologically "normal" as heterosexuality.

Please don't make such ignorant and offensive statements.

Just so you know going forward, there was absolutely nothing "ignorant" or "offensive" about the statement that poster made. Not one single thing.

The statement that homosexuality is "biologically normal" is very accurate. The entire reason we have genitalia is so that our species has a means of sexual reproduction. As it currently stands, that function is only carried out via male-to-female transfer of genetic material, which we typically accomplish via sexual intercourse.

Just because something happens in nature doesn't mean it is normal. Sometimes an animal is born as an albino, as a result of a genetic mutation that prevents pigmentation. Now, there may be absolutely nothing else about that animal that is different, but being albino certainly represents an abnormality within that species. Something that nearly always works one way (normal) instead worked a different way (abnormal). Just because it happens in nature doesn't mean it's "biologically normal." It's not a value judgment, it's an accurate statement.

The discussion as to whether or not it's "okay to be gay" or "okay to be an ablino" or whatever... that's a separate matter from whether or not it is normal. See, you're confusing "normal" with "acceptable." Should it be acceptable that someone is gay? Sure, why not? Does that mean it isn't an abnormality for the human species? It certainly is, mathematically and biologically speaking.

 

[Akalistos]

Thing is, you can't really teach Sexual orientation to kid without teaching sex, with is, by itself intertwine and indissociable.

Nonsense. Children from a very early age learn about sexual orientation well before they get to the act of sex. They learn through real world observation, TV, books, etc. All this media will involve traditional heterosexual partnerships (prince & princess, mummy & daddy, Santa Claus & Mrs Claus, Mickey & Minnie mouseetc).

No they don't. Sexuality doesn't imply parenting. Remember, most of them have both a father and a mother. The partnership of man and women is normal if not downright accepted, but they doesn't know they are the result of sexual intercourse. In most case, it's a TABULA RASA. For them, they cannot fathom a family without a Mother and a Father. It also something that I realized when I had a friend that lived exclusively with his mother. Sexuality never factor in at this point. [/quote]I would say that by the time a child is 3 or 4 years old, whilst understanding absolutely nothing about sex or sexual intercourse, will have a very clear idea of what a 'normal' relationship is.[/quote]Wrong, they know a family have a daddy and a mommy and basically nothing more. Most of the kid still think that girl give cooty and are gross, and that boy are dirty and gross. Attraction and the concept of sexuality come with puberty and that's where they realize what orientation they gonna take.

Ask most 4 year olds to draw a picture of what a family looks like. What do you think they will produce?

What they would seem familiar to them. For children that live with either parent, they wouldn't have the other adult in the picture. Reconstructed household, with a new Mommy will showcase it. Those who are orphan will most likely have a picture of a few kid and a couple adult that care for them. Why? Because that what they came to see as normal household. It's like teaching a kid that the term for dollars is feces. You won't be surprised if they ask you Five Feces to buy some candy.

 

[GGZeta]

Positive role models are important for children, and there aren't enough gay ones.

It has been shown that many children are aware they are gay long before they are aware of sexuality or romantic issues - they just know. Having a character who they can relate to as part of the television they watch is essential for developing self-esteem and confidence.

There is no reason to bring 'sex' into it either - if a female character can have a crush on a boy, a female character can have a crush on a girl - we already have characters having crushes in children's shows, so nothing more needs to be added other than changing who the target of the crush is.

Agreed 100%. If I had good homosexual role models when I was younger my childhood would have been a LOT easier and I probably wouldn't have made as many bad decisions as I did. True equality of sexuality will only happen when there isn't a token homosexual character in the mix. It will happen when no one even notices or cares, when there isn't even a special episode about the gay/lesbian character or whatever. Considering in kids shows "crushes" often come up and generally when they do they only involve holding hands and the usual unrequited love stuff. And on the subject of MLP, it would be really cute if Rainbow Dash had a crush on Spitfire but only if the other characters treated it like was completely normal.

Children watch cartoons like these and they form opinions, if even just unconscious ones. Even if a show comes up showing different sexuality in a positive way, if that show makes a point of that character being different but insists that's okay its still going to cause problems. That won't get rid of the stigma, those characters and any relationships they have must be treated the same way as the others.

PS: After reading some of the comments I should mention that most people are experimenting with and figuring out their sexuality before they even hit puberty. For instance, most transexuals will tell you that they knew something was wrong by age 5. They need positive role models to show them their internals struggles and feelings are normal.

 

[Akalistos]

You want to see more gay character into show... because you are a adult and already defined your preference. Keep in mind that we are talking about Cartoon, a medium meant for children from 4 to 10. At this stage of evolution, they don't need to get pressured into choosing what orientation they gonna be. To be perfectly frank, they don't care. Not to say that they do not understand, but that's akin to forcing them to grow up in a rather nasty way. Sexuality is a topic that must be educated when it become important in the life of individual and that's during his teenage years, when his body start to change and he's ready for such a thing. By that point, don't you think that Teen show will be more their speed?

I find it pretty sickening to see people preference and sense of morality dictate something that is and never will be directed to them. Leave the kids alone.

Here's a news flash for you, you are ~born into~ your sexual orientation, it's not a conscious decision, you simply are born straight, gay or bi. You don't choose it, you are it.

That is wrong and is a misconception, if not a blatant excuse. Sexuality start during puberty and before that, not only do you don't know sex but you don't care. The reason being that you aren't ready for it and that part of your brain doesn't active till Puberty. It's easy to see how some homosexual or even Heterosexual would explain homosexual. I was born that way is pretty hard argue against but still, it's a choice you make when you are older. A good way to see it is that everybody would enjoy sex outside of their set sexuality. A gay man will still enjoy sex with a women. The organ is stimulated the same way with a man or a women. What differ is his preference and that's taste.

And that said, homosexual characters in children's entertainment goes back at least 15 years. In Sailor Moon there were two lesbian characters, and that goes all the way back to the early 90s (in Japan) and was very much aimed at young girls.

Edit: And now that I think about it, Ranma ½ throws sexuality ~and~ gender completely into a blender, to hilarious effect.

Yes, throw at me some culture from the place where sexuality is so overblown and down right offensive. The creator of Lolicon comic. The people that invented the distributor of used schoolgirl panties and the disposable vagina. A country that have child actually deciding to prostitute themselves.

Dude, Japan is a cautionary tale of HOW NOT TO DO IT WITHOUT SCREWING THE KID'S MIND.

 

[Akalistos]

...

I never said put a sex act in a cartoon. Stop shoving words in my mouth. -.-

Aka said, quote, "If you put sexuality into children cartoon, you CAN'T really done it without the Sex aspect. Like light and dark, you need to introduce them to sex before getting to the orientations."

He/She is basing it off of that.

Thank's HalfTangible, but I can do it on my own. Feel free to agree or disagree with me and tell me why.
*Pat Halftangible on the shoulder*
By the way, I'm a HE and a proud member of the BRONIES!

DON'T TOUCH ME *foaming at the mouth, snarling*[/quote]
Down boy, down... Fluttershy! FLUTTERSHY!... A LITTLE HAND HERE.

 

[BlackIronGuardian]

Besides teaching straight kids that it's okay to be gay, I think it'd also be kind of nice for the gay kids out there. Not that I really know, but I'm told the whole coming out of the closet or teenage gay years are hard, so wouldn't it be nice to have someone for those kids to relate to on TV?

 

[Treblaine]

Do you realize they are achieved another way? They all have a strong anti-discrimination moral. Those thing are approach in kid shows already, often by bringing a character the main cast is afraid of then discover they shouldn't have treated him like that. It's not how to treat or react to homosexuality as much as TOLERANCE.

....

But that still a problem of tolerance. Thing is, yes... X-men is a allegory for homosexuality. A damn good one, but you need to understand that you cannot introduce the concept of sexuality to kid without sex and the crowd it attract are kid that aren't in their puberty yet. Sex isn't in the equation because not only is it wrong and force AND Speed the development of the child but also of his sexuality. I see this a slapping a kid in the face when he comeback from elementary school and told him to choose between boys and girls or his life is forfeit. In this case, the child wouldn't be receptive to the message without completely disturbing him.

Sometimes you have to face the issue directly.

I agree, but there's better ways. For example, Suspension for any kid calling another one gay. It not only penalize the kid who misbehave but also force the parent to notice those thing and actually put a stop to it. Hell, There's no better way to make some backward or retarted or lazy parents to react they discover that their kid will fail his classes and need to redo another years because he was a douche at school. You don't get more sensatize when it hit your wallet. And that, is something the bully won't be able to ignore.

"strong anti-discrimination moral."

No, it's very important that kids learn to discriminate. They have to learn to discriminate against Nazis, slave-owners, pedos, and other people who are a destructive force on society and a direct threat to them. A blanket anti-discrimination attitude DOES NOT WORK, it is not practical at all.

You say there is another way before you even acknowledge now the X-men gay allegory doesn't actually get through to the generation it targets with it's message. Children need to learn, through storytelling, games and activities not to victimise against homosexuals in particular as well as other groups. As importantly they must learn to stand up against victimisation.

Bringbackbuck has you tekken-told on the "family education before puberty" thing.

No one is telling kids
"CHOOSE SEXUAL ORIENTATION"
But rather
"DON'T GAY BASH!"
and it's best they are introduced to the CONCEPT of homosexuality in a responsible publication rather than in the schoolyard full of misinformation conjecture. We need to stop victimisation WHERE IT STARTS, and that is before they even reach puberty, that's as far back as I remember hearing gay insults and gay bashing.

"Suspension for any kid calling another one gay."

A zero tolerance policy? Have you any idea what a monumentally bad idea that is? Not only are such draconian punishments far too inflexible, but they destroy children's education with suspensions for honest mistakes where they won't learn what they did wrong. A suspension is such an over-reaction in school is only going to engender bitterness and resentment especially when they get such a harsh punishment for being caught saying it when other friends simply weren't caught. Zero-tolerance policies have decimated entire generations in education as they are far too harsh, the punishment must fit the crime and go too hard and you'll get blow-back.

But your very choice of limitation "calling another gay", I'll say this once and hope you learn it:

[HEADING=1]"GAY" IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE AN INSULT[/HEADING]

People willingly self identify as gay! It's like suspending a student for making reference to a black student being black. This rule effectively bans EVER addressing homosexuality in schools. Sweeps it under the rug.

You have come up with SO MANY convoluted and discredited ideas they all just seem to want to keep the idea of homosexuality out of sight and out of mind. Banning phrases like "gay" doesn't make gays more acceptable, it makes the concept taboo, alien and does not address deep seated prejudices. Dancing around the issue with allegory and platitudes won't work if they aren't given actual examples, and you do not need to go into explicit details about sex.

You can't sweep this issue under the rug.

 

[tzimize]

Note: It's been brought to my attention that there was a thread similar to this once before, however I wish to restart the discussion with my own questions and perspective, so please no "Search bar plz" comments.


The recent jokes surrounding the sexual orientation of the character Rainbow Dash from MLP:FiM, while obviously not to be taken seriously, have sparked a bit of thought from me regarding homosexual or otherwise "Gay" characters in cartoons and what others might think of such characters becoming more common. Children's cartoons don't focus on things such as sexuality to any significant degree, I?m thinking more within the context of schoolyard crushes than anything, so keep that in mind while reading the OP.

There is a very distinct lack of gay characters in children?s cartoons, at least here in America there certainly is, and I think that is because being gay still carries a taboo in this part of the world. What better way to get past this archaic stigma than to teach children that gays aren?t to be feared or hated? Including gay characters in children?s television programs could do a lot to help with this, not using their homosexuality to define them but merely as a part of their character as a whole. We don?t need more effeminate men prancing around in drag or butch lesbians to drive the point home, I think we need relatable, well thought-out characters that can claim to respectably represent homosexuals without resorting to stereotypical characterization. Not only would this indirectly foster tolerance of gays in children but it would also give any children who might actually turn out to be homosexual someone to look up to or, at the very least, confirmation that whatever they feel is not abnormal.

An example of one such character that I?ve always thought was very well-done was [a href="http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Haku"]Haku[/a] from the Naruto series. He?s a pacifist by nature but continues to fight out of some misguided devotion to his insane father figure (Or romantic interest, I could never quite tell) Zabuza,.To me that?s brilliant characterization with Haku?s homosexuality being only one feature of his overall complex personality. He does dress and look female but I think it?s done rather tastefully.

Just so that I?m not misinterpreted understand that I don?t want to turn all kid?s shows into some PSA for love and tolerance of all peoples, kids want to be entertained not feel like they?re being lectured, I just think that there is a missed opportunity in excluding gays (Intentional or no) from this type of programming. I would also like to point out that I am not personally gay, so I?m essentially an outsider looking in and probably have a bit of a skewed perspective because of this, any posts from Escapists that are actually gay would be appreciated.

Questions to consider when posting:
-Does the idea of including more or any gay characters in a show targeted at younger audiences bother you? Reasons for why or why not?
-Speaking specifically about the character of Rainbow Dash: In the (Highly unlikely) event that she was to actually turn out to be homosexual how would you feel about this change? Do you think she would make a good gay character or does she fit too neatly into established stereotypes?


EDIT: Accidentally hit post before I could add the poll. Rectifying this ASAP.

Hm. If we're looking for rolemodels I dont think Naruto is the place we want to start. While there are some very good values being championed by that show...its often way too far removed from reality to be of any big relevance like the sort you are looking for. At least for kids (which are the relevant ones here, right?)

In fact, I'm not sure we need any rolemodels for them at all. Sexuality is a non-issue for kids. They dont think about sex, and as such wether people are gay or straight doesnt really affect them much. They like bright colors and anvils falling in peoples heads. Kids in the meaning of teenagers...well sure. A better thing than more gays would be a dead Disney Channel though. Good God I feel for the children who has to grow up watching that garbage.......but I digress.

More gays in television? Well...I dont know. I dont mind gays in television, but...my mind goes to the term "token black guy". It exists for a reason. Do we really want "token gay guy" to be what this decades television should be about? Gays have their place in television, but not because they are gay.

The best gay relationship I can think of being portrayed is Willow and Tara in Buffy. There is EXTREMELY little emphasis on sexuality and a lot on characterization and a loving relationship between two adults. That I wouldnt mind seeing more of, but not because some network wants to squeeze in more lesbians making out because "its hot".

 

[QUINTIX]

snip

LOL, you used the word "choice" when referring to sexuality, and also the word "wrong". Bigot.

What is wrong with gays accepting that they choose and being proud of that choice? "[insert fetish here] is not a choice" is such a weak defense. Such an argument could just as easily defend "sexuality" widely understood to be wrong, like incest or hebephilia.

Edit: back (somewhat) on topic
Name one major animated "g" rated feature length film with wide critical acclaim that show two guys or gals spit-swapping, instead of, say, the typical prince/princess.

 

[Pedro The Hutt]

You want to see more gay character into show... because you are a adult and already defined your preference. Keep in mind that we are talking about Cartoon, a medium meant for children from 4 to 10. At this stage of evolution, they don't need to get pressured into choosing what orientation they gonna be. To be perfectly frank, they don't care. Not to say that they do not understand, but that's akin to forcing them to grow up in a rather nasty way. Sexuality is a topic that must be educated when it become important in the life of individual and that's during his teenage years, when his body start to change and he's ready for such a thing. By that point, don't you think that Teen show will be more their speed?

I find it pretty sickening to see people preference and sense of morality dictate something that is and never will be directed to them. Leave the kids alone.

Here's a news flash for you, you are ~born into~ your sexual orientation, it's not a conscious decision, you simply are born straight, gay or bi. You don't choose it, you are it.

That is wrong and is a misconception, if not a blatant excuse. Sexuality start during puberty and before that, not only do you don't know sex but you don't care. The reason being that you aren't ready for it and that part of your brain doesn't active till Puberty. It's easy to see how some homosexual or even Heterosexual would explain homosexual. I was born that way is pretty hard argue against but still, it's a choice you make when you are older. A good way to see it is that everybody would enjoy sex outside of their set sexuality. A gay man will still enjoy sex with a women. The organ is stimulated the same way with a man or a women. What differ is his preference and that's taste.

And that said, homosexual characters in children's entertainment goes back at least 15 years. In Sailor Moon there were two lesbian characters, and that goes all the way back to the early 90s (in Japan) and was very much aimed at young girls.

Edit: And now that I think about it, Ranma ½ throws sexuality ~and~ gender completely into a blender, to hilarious effect.

Yes, throw at me some culture from the place where sexuality is so overblown and down right offensive. The creator of Lolicon comic. The people that invented the distributor of used schoolgirl panties and the disposable vagina. A country that have child actually deciding to prostitute themselves.

Dude, Japan is a cautionary tale of HOW NOT TO DO IT WITHOUT SCREWING THE KID'S MIND.

Do I really need to go digging through Wikipedia to prove to you that sexual orientation is something you're born into? Look, I could take a straight child and bombard it with gay porn day in day out, ten years down the line he or she will still be straight. Inversely, no amount of exposure to heterosexuality will make a homosexual or bisexual child change. Long story short, you can't choose what you're attracted to, it never was, and never will be a conscious choice. You can act whether or not you'll act upon that, but the attraction itself is there.

And also, do some proper research on Japanese culture before throwing out the most clichéd misconceptions about the country. Your ignorance is almost starting to become insulting. Not to mention your homophobia.

 

[Treblaine]

I assume you mean Sex, but no. If you put sexuality into children cartoon, you CAN'T really done it without the Sex aspect. Like light and dark, you need to introduce them to sex before getting to the orientations. You may tries as you like, but you wouldn't be able to define sexuality without sex, because they are the same concept to begin with.

Uuuuh, yes you can.

Children have heard of the concept of marriage LOOOOONG before they learn about the "birds and the bees".

All you have to do is say "David and Michael are going to get married" that's it. You don't have to mention honeymoon activities nor anything explicit, why the hell would you have to.

If a kid picked up a wedding invitation:

"Peter and Jane are getting married"

would the kid really say:
"marriage? Why are they getting married, are they going to 'do something' afterwards, I MUST KNOW or this whole thing makes absolutely NO SENSE to me! For some illogical reason I cannot comprehend the idea that two people love each other and want that recognised by their family and friends in a big party!"

Gimme a break, I'll show you exactly how to introduce it:

David: "Welcome to our village Fluorescent Ninja warrior, I am Master Dave and this is my husband Steve"
Naruto: "Hello Master Dave. Hello Steve. I have come from the land of Hyrule on a quest to blah blah blah, the exposition about plot"

It's that easy to have a conversation without it turning to sex.

 

[boag]

Im sorry, i dont know if this was posted before and its kind of a turn off to dredge through the 16 pages of the of conversation.

If this has been posted before, I apologize.

Rainbow Dash is not gay.

Heres a direct link from Lauren Faust Confirming it.

http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/12/24/my-little-non-homophobic-non-racist-non-smart-shaming-pony-a-rebuttal/

Rainbow Dash has rainbow-striped hair because of her name and because she is very interested in sports, specifically flying. She is a tomboy, but nowhere in the show is her sexual orientation ever referenced. As we all know, there are plenty of straight tomboys in the world, and assuming they are lesbians is extremely unfair to both straight and lesbian tomboys.

 

[LuckyClover95]

I think the only way to stop it being a taboo is to raise the next generation not thinking that way.
The first time I saw a gay kiss I was like 8. EIGHT YEARS OLD. Because I had always seen male-female kisses it shocked me, so I thought it was weird and was homophobic. Then I grew up, got some sense and realized it's normal.
However, I was homphobic for quite a while, at least until I was 12, simply because I thought it was 'weird and ew and unnatural' just because I'd never ever seen gayness until like 8. If I'd grown up with it it wouldn't have been weird and I wouldn't have been homophobic.

 

[PhiMed]

I don't really see the point in purposely trying to include gay characters. There are two types of parents who would let their children watch a show that included a character like that.

1) Parents who would already be teaching children values of tolerance anyway

2) Parents who don't understand the subtext.

In the case of the first group, you're not really adding any value. You're just re-teaching a lesson the child is already being taught.

In the case of the second group, you're attempting to side-step parental teaching. Once the parents in the second group figure out what's going on, there will be a MASSIVE SHITSTORM. And rightly so. They think they're sitting their child down for what they define as a "wholesome" show, and it's teaching values contrary to their beliefs on the sly. I don't agree with those beliefs, but they're entitled to have them, and they're entitled to attempt to pass them on to their children if they want to.

Propaganda sucks. Even well-intentioned propaganda that puts forth a worthwhile message. Don't advocate brainwashing kids just because you think you know what's in their best interest.

Now, if a character in a show is gay, that's fine, but inserting a gay character into a show with the explicit goal of fostering positive feelings about homosexuality is what I'm not so sure about. Message thumping doesn't make good art. I mean, just look at Christian contemporary music. (shivers)

 

[Treblaine]

snip

LOL, you used the word "choice" when referring to sexuality, and also the word "wrong". Bigot.

What is wrong with gays accepting that they choose and being proud of that choice? "[insert fetish here] is not a choice" is such a weak defense. Such an argument could just as easily defend "sexuality" widely understood to be wrong, like incest or hebephilia.

When did you chose to be straight? Why didn't you decide to be gay instead?



It's not a defence, it is a self-evident fact. We don't chose our emotions, our instincts, they just manifest in us from factors beyond your conscious control or it seems from anyone's conscious control. Just like you don't chose to be attracted who whoever you are attracted to.

Just get the idea into your head that:

[HEADING=2]NOT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS THAT YOU HAVE[/HEADING]

No one is saying that many other sexual tendencies like pederasty are a "choice" either, but the difference is those are inherently destructive and unsustainable urges that they must not ever act on.

The only "choice" we ALL have is to follow on our feelings, or... resist them.

It's unreasonable to expect a gay men to "choose" to live a life of celibacy and abstinence - suppressing their feelings - when they can be so content and happy pursuing relationships with other gay men.