Gay characters in children's cartoons

[Bags159]

To quote the famous Ms. Magazine debacle, Kathleen Richter;
"I was immediately concerned that the only pony that looked slightly angry or tomboyish was the rainbow pony. Since there's a false stereotype that all feminists are angry, tomboyish lesbians, it was disconcerting to think that a kid's TV show would uphold this. I watched the video clip and, indeed, the rainbow pony stands out as having a perpetually maniacal expression while the others are cute and cuddly."

HA! ^^;; She clearly hasn't seen Episodes 25 or 26. Pinkie Pie and Fluttershy will soon fix her impression of the rest of the cast as cute and cuddly.

Also because Dash is very cute in that episode.

My point is just as there are flamboyant straight men and girly lesbian women, there is no reason we should ever make prejudgments that cannot be guaranteed based on half information and assumptions.

... why? If it makes me happy that there is a female bisexual character in a show I like (when I'm a bisexual woman myself) then why can't I make that assumption?

It sounds like a good intention for it to be that way but to be honest we dont know the characters sexual orientations definitively. It is akin to saying that a man who happens to act flamboyantly is homosexual if he's straight, it is unfair to the person and it harms them from acting the way they feel comfortable. Instead we shouldn't make assumptions and should take people as they are, if they happen to be gay or straight it shouldnt matter. Good intentions dont always lead to a good place.

I'm going to keep using MLP as a lot of people are familiar with it in this thread.

Rarity crushes on a Prince -> we know she is most likely straight.
Spike crushes on Rarity -> we know he is most likely straight.
If Rainbow Dash crushes on Spitfire -> we know she is most likely not straight.

I really don't see what the problem is here. I'm not saying they need to throw more love into kids cartoons. All I'm saying is if they can do it one way they can show it another way.

 

[mr_rubino]

Sexuality in children's shows.... no....

Gays in children's shows... absolutely not... Believe me, it's best for both sides... For once, trying to instill that gay is a valid choice is wrong... for the other hand, you do realize that gays would be shown as flamboyant weirdos in most shows.

Response to "being gay is not a valid choice": Error, trolls will not be responded to.

Translation: Any opinion that differs from mine must be a troll.

What's the point of adding sexuality to children's cartoons? Unless you have some sort of deviant plan...

And anyone who uses that tired line from the Amateur Troll Handbook is a troll. We're busy. Take it elsewhere.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

From what i'm reading you seem more stereotypical of homosexuals and lesbians than anyone in this thread. I'm tired of all lesbians being percieved as only tomboys who are tough, what are you inferring that rainbow dash is gay from? She idolizes a member of the same sex? If that were the case then almost everyone in the world is gay, adding token gay characters for no reason other than to make some people happy would be a detremental to a culture as adding a sterotypical black person into any show is.

Says the (straight?) man to the bisexual woman. I think Rainbow Dash is bisexual because I'm bisexual and I identify with her. Rainbow Dash (as noted in a previous post of mine) is NOT a lesbian stereotype. There is a lot more to her personality than being athletic.

Seriously, athletics as a lesbian stereotype hasn't been prominent since the 90s. And anyway, Applejack is MORE athletic than Rainbow Dash, and I don't think she's gay. A straighter pony I have never seen.

Making a minority happy would be detrimental to culture? Is that what you think of, oh, let's say... Power Rangers, Captain Planet, or any of the other many racial-ethically inclined kids shows? Giving kids heroes that are similar to them, instead of some generic white people, is a bad thing?

As for the example, I used Rainbow Dash because the writers would need to change nothing from what has already been established to make her gay. Nothing about the way she's acted has determined her sexuality either direction. There is also a female character who her attention could easily be directed to (Spitfire). If they wanted to make her straight, dido to Soaren. Bisexual? Both. Simple as that, with what has already been established.

 

[LCP]

Sexuality in children's shows.... no....

Gays in children's shows... absolutely not... Believe me, it's best for both sides... For once, trying to instill that gay is a valid choice is wrong... for the other hand, you do realize that gays would be shown as flamboyant weirdos in most shows.

Response to "being gay is not a valid choice": Error, trolls will not be responded to.

Translation: Any opinion that differs from mine must be a troll.

What's the point of adding sexuality to children's cartoons? Unless you have some sort of deviant plan...

And anyone who uses that tired line from the Amateur Troll Handbook is a troll. We're busy. Take it elsewhere.

Call me whatever you want, you have no proof to back up your opinion....

I have to jump in the "gay is normal" bandwagon to not be considered a troll? Gimme a break...

 

[Nimcha]

However...there are flamboyent, feminine male homosexualy, and butch female homosexuals, and the percentage of flamboyant or butch individuals amongst the gay population is much higher tehn among the straight. There is a behavioral difference besides sexual partner amongst the entire population. I didn't want to believe it myself, but I couldn't ignore the observable facts. And since this phenomena exists, it seems that we should accept it, and aknowledge that it may be real, but it is fundamentally irrelevant.

Ignoring whether that actually is true or not (I doubt it), why would there be any reason to actually enforce stereotypes? Of course certain stereotypes are more obvious than others but if you actively enforce them on children, they might not view these stereotypes as mere coincidental observations but as actual boxes that people need to fit in.

 

[Condor219]

Sexuality in children's shows.... no....

Gays in children's shows... absolutely not... Believe me, it's best for both sides... For once, trying to instill that gay is a valid choice is wrong... for the other hand, you do realize that gays would be shown as flamboyant weirdos in most shows.

Response to "being gay is not a valid choice": Error, trolls will not be responded to.

Translation: Any opinion that differs from mine must be a troll.

What's the point of adding sexuality to children's cartoons? Unless you have some sort of deviant plan...

I was saying that you making the comment "instilling gay [as being] a valid choice is wrong" which implied that being gay was wrong, looked a lot like a troll statement.

As for homosexuality in shows, you're entitled to your opinion, and I am to mine. This should be clear from the get-go.

 

[mr_rubino]

Sexuality in children's shows.... no....

Gays in children's shows... absolutely not... Believe me, it's best for both sides... For once, trying to instill that gay is a valid choice is wrong... for the other hand, you do realize that gays would be shown as flamboyant weirdos in most shows.

Response to "being gay is not a valid choice": Error, trolls will not be responded to.

Translation: Any opinion that differs from mine must be a troll.

What's the point of adding sexuality to children's cartoons? Unless you have some sort of deviant plan...

And anyone who uses that tired line from the Amateur Troll Handbook is a troll. We're busy. Take it elsewhere.

Call me whatever you want, you have no proof to back up your opinion....

Now you're just throwing words at the screen.

 

[mrdude2010]

if it's a show with children in it they don't even have a sexual orientation yet. the whole discussion is pointless because you can't have a sexual orientation before you become sexually interested in one gender or the other, and any personality differences between "straight" and "gay" aren't apparent yet anyway

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

It sounds like a good intention for it to be that way but to be honest we dont know the characters sexual orientations definitively. It is akin to saying that a man who happens to act flamboyantly is homosexual if he's straight, it is unfair to the person and it harms them from acting the way they feel comfortable. Instead we shouldn't make assumptions and should take people as they are, if they happen to be gay or straight it shouldnt matter. Good intentions dont always lead to a good place.

In real life? Perhaps. We're talking about a fictional cartoon pony here. How is my being happy that a fictional cartoon pony is bisexual going to harm said fictional cartoon pony?

Besides the works of DeviantArt?

 

[LCP]

Sexuality in children's shows.... no....

Gays in children's shows... absolutely not... Believe me, it's best for both sides... For once, trying to instill that gay is a valid choice is wrong... for the other hand, you do realize that gays would be shown as flamboyant weirdos in most shows.

Response to "being gay is not a valid choice": Error, trolls will not be responded to.

Translation: Any opinion that differs from mine must be a troll.

What's the point of adding sexuality to children's cartoons? Unless you have some sort of deviant plan...

I was saying that you making the comment "instilling gay [as being] a valid choice is wrong" which implied that being gay was wrong, looked a lot like a troll statement.

As for homosexuality in shows, you're entitled to your opinion, and I am to mine. This should be clear from the get-go.

I couldn't call it wrong... since anyone can do whatever the hell they want to as long as they're not harming others. But I definitely can't call it right, because it wouldnt make any sense doing so.

 

[Canid117]

Pretty sure he is trolling.

I'm not. Any sex in kids shows, imo, is not okay. Sure, have a flamboyant character, but that just plays on stereotypes. I feel the same about macho men and helpless princeses. Plus, whats the big diffrence between homosexuality and hetrosexuality? The sex. So, when my future kid walks up to me and asks me why spongebob and patrick can't get married but spongebob and sandy can, what do I say? Imo, best to educate them about this seperatley.

Tell your child that in your state marriage is not legally allowed between people of the same gender. Do the characters even need to get married? Can't it just be a grade school crush like every other relationship between a protagonist and a side character in cartoons that has ever existed. By the time they are old enough to actually bother watching the cartoon on a regular basis or care about the characters your kids will already have a sexual orientation. They may not know what it is yet but your kids will either be gay or straight or bi by the time they are five and Rainbow Dash isn't going to change that especially seeing as how the relationship would only be shown as an emotional one.

I dont think you have much experience with kids. THEY ARE FUCKING CURIOUS. Just seeing a man and a man together will spark 15 questions. Besides playing on sterotypes or putting a man with another man, there isnt a easy way to represent this in a kids show.

If you are too afraid to answer your childrens questions then I hope your aren't afraid of them finding those answers elsewhere. Would you rather you be in control of what your children learn or would you rather they stumble onto gay porn at the age of six?

 

[Teh Roflchoppa]

The show Ed Edd and Eddy had, what could be considered a gay character. The boy was named Jimmy, he had a very high voice and only talked with the girls and followed the girls, he found the guys disgusting and he loved stuffed animals and bunnies. Anyone remember that show?

Shows efeminate males, maybe. Was he actually accepted for it or was he sort of outcasted/rejected for that very reason though?

In the show, Jimmy's constant low level of macho-ness,and high fragility, is used as a comedic foil to the occasional times when he becomes brave and overly-strong.
Example: Eddy hypnotizes Jimmy, telling him he's a body builder, local heterosexual bully, Kevin, crushed his stuffed bunny earlier with a mailbox. Jimmy proceeded to flatten Kevin with the same mailbox.

So I guess it's just a character extreme, but still, he could be a wuss, without a high voice and attachment to girls, and would probably have the same effect, so I think it's relevant.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

Call me whatever you want, you have no proof to back up your opinion....

I have to jump in the "gay is normal" bandwagon to not be considered a troll? Gimme a break...

Well, you did jump into the thread insisting that sexuality is a choice and strongly implying that being gay is "doing it wrong" (my words).

I couldn't call it wrong... since anyone can do whatever the hell they want to as long as they're not harming others. But I definitely can't call it right, because it wouldnt make any sense doing so.

So...how does saying that it's not "a valid choice" make any more sense? (Hell, that goes for calling it a "choice" at all. There's more evidence in favor of sexuality being innate than there is in favor of laterality being innate.)

And, for that matter, how is it particularly different from outright saying that it's wrong?

 

[Tsaba]

My mistake. I thought you were a native speaker and took your vocab the wrong way.

Trolling is so cute now a days, your not adding to the conversation, instead your just demeaning the opposite side and not adding any value to the conversation of GAY CARTOON CHARACTERS.

So, let me just post my opinion which is ON TOPIC and my opinion on this matter:
I think a gay character in teenager level material is fine, I do not how ever, think that small children as a WHOLE are ready for such a thing, I do believe parents should be responsible for replying to the child's answer on THEIR OWN TIME, it should not be FORCE FED to all children.

It's not televisions responsibility just like it is not the VIDEO GAME MAKERS responsibility to care for children.

END OF STORY.

EDIT: grammatical errors.

 

[Bags159]

if it's a show with children in it they don't even have a sexual orientation yet. the whole discussion is pointless because you can't have a sexual orientation before you become sexually interested in one gender or the other, and any personality differences between "straight" and "gay" aren't apparent yet anyway

Then why include romance in any form in cartoons, since they don't have any sexual orientation according to you.

So, let me just post my opinion which is ON TOPIC and my opinion on this matter:
I think a gay character in teenager level material is fine, I do not how ever, think that small children as a WHOLE are ready for such a thing, I do believe parents should be responsible for replying to the child's answer on THEIR OWN TIME, it should not be FORCE FED to all children.


END OF STORY.

Are they also not ready for straight relationships at this age?

 

[LCP]

Call me whatever you want, you have no proof to back up your opinion....

I have to jump in the "gay is normal" bandwagon to not be considered a troll? Gimme a break...

Well, you did jump into the thread insisting that sexuality is a choice and strongly
implying that being gay is doing it wrong.

I couldn't call it wrong... since anyone can do whatever the hell they want to as long as they're not harming others. But I definitely can't call it right, because it wouldnt make any sense doing so.

So...how does saying that it's not "a valid choice" (hell, that it's a choice at all) make any more sense? There's more evidence in favor of sexuality being innate than there is in favor of laterality being innate.

I have trouble believing it's not a choice... Just me... Because if it's not a choice it's a defect...

 

[Strixvaliano]

I agree completely. There really needs to be more diversity in cartoons without it feeling forced or as an off color joke for older viewers.

Unfortunately to pull something off like that you would have to be subtle or not even mention it (Dumbledore)otherwise the show will be crushed under the sheer weight of ignorance and fear because for some reason our culture (America, I can't speak for any other cultures since I don't have any experience with them) makes homosexuality out to be this horrible sinful act against god, country and the "American way."

It's also kind of fun to watch shows/games/anything with openly gay characters with my one friend because he is 100% homophobic and is so disgusted by even any little hint of someone not being heterosexual but he isn't the type to go around gay bashing or telling people how to live unless they try to force their belief on him. Hell, sometimes I troll him and its quite funny and I figure would eventually get him to the point where it just doesn't upset him as much as it does.

 

[AnkaraTheFallen]

Sorry, i didn't mean to offend. Im not trying to use the term 'defect' offensivley, but i dont know any other term. As far as I know, homosexuality is uncommon. And in my belief, i think it is a brain defect since its not carried on in dna. Just trying to show you where I am coming at.

It's not some brain defect (if it was someone would have found out what part of the brain caused it and tried selling a 'cure' to parents, or some stupid thing along the same line). We are the exact same as everyone else... truthfully I don't know what makes people gay, the most common belief is it's caused by some hormonal balance we have or something. But we are the exact same as any straight person when it comes to our DNA and brain functions, it's just we happen to like members of the same sex.

As others have said, homosexuality is uncommon compared to heterosexuality, but that doesn't mean it isn't natural.

We still dont know entirley how the brain works, so it's a possibility. Homosexuality is natural, never said it wasnt. But that doesnt mean its not defect. Not trying to offend, but by defect i mean not the norm. Something is diffrent in gays that causes this, therefore its a defect. Trust me, its alot better than having your doctor look at your chest and call it a deformity, lol.

Sorry, but when you're saying 'defect' to mean not the norm, you should say uncommon then.
Again, I'm not going to argue over this, as truthfully as I said I don't know what makes people gay, but I don't feel defected and personally I don't like people saying there is something wrong with me for being gay (I get enough of that at home as is) but I'm not taking offence from your arguments as I understand what you are trying to say.

 

[Escapefromwhatever]

In a TV show for adults?

Fine

For teenagers?

Sure, why not

For young children?

Ehhhh, no.

I don?t think children at that age need to be thinking those sorts of things (Adult things). Let children be children, and you can tell them at an older age.

Fair enough, except would you also deny heterosexual interactions? Things like the crush Doug had on Patty Mayonnaise, or Charlie Brown on the red-haired girl? If not, then I fail to see why homosexual crushes are any worse, unless you are implying that gay is somehow obscene and therefore not fit for children. Which I quite disagree with.

Sexuality in children's shows.... no....

Gays in children's shows... absolutely not... Believe me, it's best for both sides... For once, trying to instill that gay is a valid choice is wrong... for the other hand, you do realize that gays would be shown as flamboyant weirdos in most shows.

Response to "being gay is not a valid choice": Error, trolls will not be responded to.

Translation: Any opinion that differs from mine must be a troll.

What's the point of adding sexuality to children's cartoons? Unless you have some sort of deviant plan...

And anyone who uses that tired line from the Amateur Troll Handbook is a troll. We're busy. Take it elsewhere.

Call me whatever you want, you have no proof to back up your opinion....

I have to jump in the "gay is normal" bandwagon to not be considered a troll? Gimme a break...

Yeah, you kinda do. The forum rules specifically point out that offensive comments are not allowed. The Escapist is a welcoming community to those from all walks of life. Calling someone abnormal is, regardless of how you would like to see it, offensive. So don't do it.