Gay characters in children's cartoons

[HerbertTheHamster]

maybe if homosexuals were more than 2% of the population, there would be more gay characters.

any gay character would probably end up like big gay al. not sure if small kids would understand that.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

I must also point out that there are many posts on here that seem to assume that unless blatantly expressed otherwise a character must be straight. There a Many Many characters on shows that have shown no inkling towards gay or straight, if you are assuming them all to be straigh that is your own bias.

If a character becomes infatuated with a character of the opposite sex, that's at least an implication (albeit in a G-rated fashion) that the character is heterosexual.

maybe if homosexuals were more than 2% of the population, there would be more gay characters.

Try closer to 10%. And, IIRC, that's just people who actively identify as gay.

 

[conflictofinterests]

I agree. Knowing that you're not a freak goes MILES towards helping someone become a well-adjusted adult. I, personally, think media aimed at children, whether purposefully or not, does a lot to tell a kid what is and isn't normal for them.

 

[Mrrrgggrlllrrrg]

You know what in the middle of typing a paragraph I just figured I'm gonna keep it short. Firstly Rainbow Dash is only perceived as gay because of stupid stereotyping and labeling based on differences. The show does it best, if you're different be you and friends wont focus on those arbitrary differences. Shows have had that message forever but we as a society still stigmatize anything outside of the norm, that shit needs to stop. So a girl likes sports, who cares what their sexuality is, no sense speculating.

See, here's the issue with this. Rainbow Dash is NOT the standard lesbian stereotype.

Is she athletic? Yes. However, Applejack is more so.

Rainbow Dash is also very spontaneousness, prone to running off before she knows the situation, or sticking her head into things before she ready.

She also has hidden self-confidence issues, that come out rather spectacularly in one episode.

She is extremely loyal, but also kind of a ***** to her friends.

Of these, only the athleticism is a lesbian stereotype.

The support for her being gay (or bi) is as follows:

Her rainbow motif (gay pride colors).
The fact that she seems to crush on all of the Wonderbolts equally (male and female alike).
The fact that she is rather physical (both on affection and just rough-housing) with her female friends.

And honestly that isn't much to go on. The fact that she stalks Spitfire and Soaren through a party is the best evidence for it, IMO, but even that can be attributed to simple fan obsession.

tldr: My point is that Rainbow Dash is not actually a lesbian stereotype.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

I wont lie I fudged and used stereotype when I meant prejudice; "A prejudice is a prejudgment, an assumption made about someone or something before having adequate knowledge to be able to do so with guaranteed accuracy."

Somewhere my grade school English teacher is rolling in her grave and I feel bad for it. I meant prejudgments based on attributes and assumptions, ie the rainbow motif, athleticism, and the roughhousing and stalking taken in a sexual context.

To quote the famous Ms. Magazine debacle, Kathleen Richter;
"I was immediately concerned that the only pony that looked slightly angry or tomboyish was the rainbow pony. Since there's a false stereotype that all feminists are angry, tomboyish lesbians, it was disconcerting to think that a kid's TV show would uphold this. I watched the video clip and, indeed, the rainbow pony stands out as having a perpetually maniacal expression while the others are cute and cuddly.

According to the "meet the ponies" page, which invites viewers to click on a pony to learn about each of their distinct personalities, "Rainbow Dash" is "capable and athletic," "lives for adventure," "brave and bold" and proves "time and time again that she is a true hero!" This positive portrayal made me wonder if perhaps the company was not providing a caricature but allowing for a positive account of gender-bending, and so I asked for a second opinion."

Lauren Faust's response;
"Rainbow Dash has rainbow-striped hair because of her name and because she is very interested in sports, specifically flying. She is a tomboy, but nowhere in the show is her sexual orientation ever referenced. As we all know, there are plenty of straight tomboys in the world, and assuming they are lesbians is extremely unfair to both straight and lesbian tomboys"

Assuming someone is lesbian or gay or straight (spongebob, I saw nowhere in that show that references he is gay in anyway or even that sexuality matters) is unjust and completely wrong. My point is just as there are flamboyant straight men and girly lesbian women, there is no reason we should ever make prejudgments that cannot be guaranteed based on half information and assumptions.

 

[viking97]

there shouldn't be ANY sexuality in a children's cartoon

if there is any (you know, maybe an older kid's show)then ya sure

 

[interspark]

Never said it was wrong. Heterosexuality is the norm. Homosexuality does not promote offspring, therefore, yes it is a defect. Does not make it bad. This is getting stupid, you seem to be taking it too close to heart.

funny, i've always liked to think that homosexuality is nature's way of dealing with human over-population. it's a natural formation of the hormones i wouldn't call it defect

 

[Bags159]

Posting to sya that I had a hearty lol @ all of the people in this thread saying there's no way to portray someone as gay in a kids cartoon.

In MLP:FIM one of the female characters, Rarity, spends most of an episode trying to hook up with a Prince(read: male). If they can have a hetero "relationship" in a cartoon aimed at young kids, why can't they have a homo "relationship"? Homosexual characters don't have to constantly rave about sex, ya know.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I hate to say this, but gay characters have hardly ever worked in any movie/TV show I've seen unless it's specifically about their sexuality.

Hollywood just doesn't seem to be able to write gay characters in casual situations. So I really doubt that writers of children's cartoons are up to the challenge.

Actually, it would be easier there. Since you can't touch on their sexuality itself, you'd have to deal with it in far subtler ways. Many children's shows are subtle enough to handle the challenge. Others... perhaps not. It's an issue of good writing more than anything else.

The problem is that kids cartoons are simplified, because kids themselves by their very nature are simple.

I don't watch the new MLP, but I remember the older cartoon to be specifically aimed at girls. No boy would be caught dead watching it. And even now there are typical boys cartoons and girls cartoons. We're looking at this with a more mature state of mind, but kids still have that very sharp boundary between boys and girls. Even when we're mature there's still that slight distrust in the opposite sex, but with kids the other gender is almost the enemy.

What I mean is that as children we observe the opposite gender very differently then we do as adults. And I'm not an expert on homosexuality, but since children aren't even able to grasp the concept of romance untill they hit puberty, I doubt they would be able to grasp the concept of being gay, straight or whatever.

I'm starting to ramble here... I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't see the point of including a casual gay character in a children's cartoon any more then I do including a stereotypical one. Unless it's highly obvious that a character is gay, I don't think little kids would be able to pick up on it. And it's the highly obvious gay characters that we want to avoid.

 

[AnkaraTheFallen]

Normal is the opposite of uncommon. It is abnormal, to say its not would be a lie. I have pectus exavatum among some heart issues, is that normal? No. Is that abnormal? Yes. Is it natural? Absolutley.

No. You are wrong. Linguistically speaking, you are absolutely wrong.

Normal is the opposite of abnormal.

Common is the opposite of uncommon.

These are entirely different.
Normal = the way something is supposed to be.
Abnormal = something that is incorrect

Common = something that occurs frequently
Uncommon = something occurs infrequently

Your pectus exavatum is both uncommon (infrequent) and abnormal (a flaw in your design). However, that does not mean that uncommon and abnormal are the same thing - just that your condition happens to be both.

And no, your heart problem IS NOT natural - it is a flaw in your body. Your heart was born damaged.

Thus your simile and your analogy were both incorrect.

I am a gay woman. I was not born wrong. There is nothing faulty with my equipment.

Never said it was wrong. Heterosexuality is the norm. Homosexuality does not promote offspring, therefore, yes it is a defect. Does not make it bad. This is getting stupid, you seem to be taking it too close to heart.

I know what you are trying to say, but as a gay woman I'd just like to say I don't feel there is anything wrong with me... I can have children if I want to (sperm banks, or I could simply have sex with a man just to get pregnant) just as a gay man can have children with a surrogate mother in the same ways.
Again, I know what you are trying to say, but the way you have said it feels extremely offensive.

 

[Nimcha]

I see a problem here. How, without discussing sexuality that goes over childrens heads, do you portray, in a Cartoon where features are naturally exaggerated, Homosexuality without resorting to stereotypes, in a way that small children with no real understanding of sexuality can understand?

Like I said, simple. Just make the character attracted to the same sex. That, again, is all homosexuality is. There is absolutely no need to drag in any stereotype or other character trait. There's no need to explain it or to handle it any differently than any other relationship on that particular show.

Why can't people let go of the idea that being gay has anything to do with character traits besides which sex one is attracted to?

 

[Xanadu84]

Normal is the opposite of uncommon. It is abnormal, to say its not would be a lie. I have pectus exavatum among some heart issues, is that normal? No. Is that abnormal? Yes. Is it natural? Absolutley.

No. You are wrong. Linguistically speaking, you are absolutely wrong.

Normal is the opposite of abnormal.

Common is the opposite of uncommon.

These are entirely different.
Normal = the way something is supposed to be.
Abnormal = something that is incorrect

Common = something that occurs frequently
Uncommon = something occurs infrequently

Your pectus exavatum is both uncommon (infrequent) and abnormal (a flaw in your design). However, that does not mean that uncommon and abnormal are the same thing - just that your condition happens to be both.

And no, your heart problem IS NOT natural - it is a flaw in your body. Your heart was born damaged.

Thus your simile and your analogy were both incorrect.

I am a gay woman. I was not born wrong. There is nothing faulty with my equipment.

Just to interject here, you two are fighting over semantics and linguistics, not any discrepancy over your actual beliefs. So for the purpose of this conversation, the two of you agree.

 

[A Pious Cultist]

I think you guys are over shooting this. Being straight is biologically normal. Should we not present that as a norm? Yes, homosexuality is a part of life, but we dont need to stuff it into entertainment for the hell of it. Especially a kid's show. If a kid is going to be gay, let them find that out for themselves instead of doing it because this character from this show is gay.

So you'd rather have a show full of straight, white, blonde-haired blue-eyed people of average build and height?

Do you know what would result? Another generation of racist, homophobic kids who are so purely because they do not know how to deal with differences and that leads to fear, then exclusion, then reasons to justify that exclusion.

 

[interspark]

there shouldn't be ANY sexuality in a children's cartoon

if there is any (you know, maybe an older kid's show)then ya sure

there's a difference between sexuality and attraction, both can apply to both sexualities, in alladin for example, alladin is in love with jasmine and everyone's fine with that, the same could but wouldn't have been done but with Alladin falling in love with some prince. Disney wouldn't have allowed that because they don't want kids to know about homosexuality, and that's what we're discussing

 

[tunderball]

Although I completely agree with you and strongly believe that homosexuality should be portrayed more strongly in media there are a few huge problems;

Relationships are harly ever the central point of a childrens cartoon, there are a few exceptions but besides the odd romantic kiss at the end you won't see much action. Homosexuals and Hetrosexuals are the same so it would be impossible to define between the two without openly discussing or showing the audience the nature of the characters sexuality. It would be very hard therefore to design a character that is clearly homosexual without making them a stereotype.

This issue reminds me a huge amount of the character 'Dumbledore' from Harry Potter when the author J.K.Rowling said in an interview 'oh by the way he's gay' (or something like that its not an exact quote) which was met by a general 'why???'. The issue wasn't that the character was gay but that nothing written in the books had ever mentioned or hinted at this fact before and the idea that the author is now stating that the character is gay feels tacted on and uneccesary.

I would love to see a greater variety of characters in childrens animation but it creates so many issues that would have to be worked around first. You want a charater to be shown as homosexual in order to show the younger members of the audience the idea of tolerance and acceptance. Whilst on the other hand you don't want a character that is a stereotype or whose character is completely defined by the fact that he is homosexual. Its a delicate balance that is so easy to get wrong and is therefore very risky, my eternal respect to any piece of media that can pull this off.

 

[ConeFTW]

I think you guys are over shooting this. Being straight is biologically normal. Should we not present that as a norm? Yes, homosexuality is a part of life, but we dont need to stuff it into entertainment for the hell of it. Especially a kid's show. If a kid is going to be gay, let them find that out for themselves instead of doing it because this character from this show is gay.

You can present something as the norm while still having things that are unusual exist as well.
What do you mean by "we dont need to stuff it into entertainment for the hell of it."? Do you mean that giving a detail about a character that's considered odd by general society is pointless or silly? Would you also say that it's pointless to have a character who happens to be Spanish?

The way you seem to phrase it, you sound like you think that merely having a homosexual character in a show is forcing homosexuality on the children watching it, if so, was X-Men trying to make people Catholic because Night Crawler was one, was Spider Man trying to force me to take up photography, did Invader Zim try to convince kids they should get a defective robot?

I knew I was gonna get shit for this. The way you guys are putting it, it sounds like you want homosexuality in there just so it can be in there. Im not objecting to putting a gay character in, I just dont want it in kid shows. That said, I dont want to see hetrosexual love either. I do, however, belive that we should educate kids about hetrosexuality and homosexuality respectivley.

Heterosexual characters are already put on kid's shows just to be there.
What you "want to see" is different from "what reality is", and we know you're lying about heterosexuals on children's shows bothering you.
This is such shameless copypasta, I don't get why it even counts as discussion.

Dont tell me what i belive in. I babysit alot, and when doras parents had another baby, my little cousin asked me the big one. "Where do babies come from?". God, that was so awkward. When i went down to see my other cousin in missisippi, i went with my aunt who was pregnant. (baby should be coming any time now!) He was completley mystified by her belly. Kids are curious, and alot smarter than you guys give them credit for.

You're right, kids are smarter than most people think which is why they need to be educated about sexuality (maybe not sex but the concept of sexuality) sooner rather than later. A good way of doing this would be to make them curious through seeing a homosexual or bisexual character in a cartoon. Even if they aren't that way inclined then at least their minds will be more open and accepting to the idea that homosexuality is just as normal as heterosexuality, although less common.

Also why is it you don't want you're kids being educated about sexuality? I can understand not wanting them to know every detail about sex but avoiding the subject entirely is unhealthy.

 

[shadowseal22]

This whole conversation is a moot point. Let's face it the prime demographic for a children cartoon is CHILDREN, and most of the time it's young children. Having a homosexual character will not influence the viewers view of homosexuality, because the viewer most likely does not understand all the politics behind the issue. The whole show would have to be themed around homosexuality, and the struggles within that group, to give enough of a background to the viewer such that he could understand and enjoy the show. The fact is that homosexuals are a minority, and having a whole show themed around them would not be practical in any way. If the homosexuality is not a core part of the show, then it's just a stamp on the character; and I think that's hardly what the gay community is fighting for right now. I would love to see more gay characters in shows for mature audiences, and we are getting there, but it's just not practical for kids shows. I think in general politics should stay out of kids shows, because the audience neither undertands, nor cares about the subject matter.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

To quote the famous Ms. Magazine debacle, Kathleen Richter;
"I was immediately concerned that the only pony that looked slightly angry or tomboyish was the rainbow pony. Since there's a false stereotype that all feminists are angry, tomboyish lesbians, it was disconcerting to think that a kid's TV show would uphold this. I watched the video clip and, indeed, the rainbow pony stands out as having a perpetually maniacal expression while the others are cute and cuddly."

HA! ^^;; She clearly hasn't seen Episodes 25 or 26. Pinkie Pie and Fluttershy will soon fix her impression of the rest of the cast as cute and cuddly.

Also because Dash is very cute in that episode.

My point is just as there are flamboyant straight men and girly lesbian women, there is no reason we should ever make prejudgments that cannot be guaranteed based on half information and assumptions.

... why? If it makes me happy that there is a female bisexual character in a show I like (when I'm a bisexual woman myself) then why can't I make that assumption?

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

I see a problem here. How, without discussing sexuality that goes over childrens heads, do you portray, in a Cartoon where features are naturally exaggerated, Homosexuality without resorting to stereotypes, in a way that small children with no real understanding of sexuality can understand?

Like I said, simple. Just make the character attracted to the same sex. That, again, is all homosexuality is. There is absolutely no need to drag in any stereotype or other character trait. There's no need to explain it or to handle it any differently than any other relationship on that particular show.

Why can't people let go of the idea that being gay has anything to do with character traits besides which sex one is attracted to?

Because few others in real life have shown us any diffrently. My cousin?s friend is the most flamboyant and campy person you will ever meet. Again, it may be unfair, but the world isn?t fair at all.

Also, I would say this: create a gay character in a children?s show, and you will bring down the wrath of the religious right. ?Tis only part of our nature, I am afraid