Gay in The Last of Us: Left Behind (SPOILERS)
- Thread starter The Crispy Tiger
- Start date
Trust me, they're far from the last people on Earth. It wouldn't matter if they were gay or not in that retrospect.lapan said:
There's nothing unusual about a girl getting a crush on another girl. It's also not unusual for a boy to have a crush on another boy, but that's not what we're talking about here; I just want to make it clear there are no exclusive rights. This is regardless something that happens more often when we're young; you could attribute it to being a symptom of either social conditioning (Gay is bad! Straight is bad! Conformity of any kind is bad!) or one's tastes becoming more refined, but I think it might partly be because gender differences aren't as pronounced when we're children, m'self. It's not until we become adolescents that our secondary sexual characteristics really start to develop, and as the divide comes, so to does our preferences. Maybe.
Either way, our brains don't function in the strict rules society does. Having a crush on someone of the same gender doesn't make you gay, bisexual, straight, or anything in-between in and of itself; you just have a crush on that person, and while we insist on making it more complicated than that, it isn't. Most people aren't straight or gay; they're somewhere in between. Personally, I'm attracted to femininity, and while that may seem pretty exclusive, some males are actually pretty freaking feminine [http://hotnews.cultural-china.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/cross-dresser-liu-zhu.jpg], so even my preferences aren't clear-cut. I actually regularly lament that I'll likely never meet such a male, because my curiosity is piqued as to whether there'd be a mental block anywhere. If nothing else, I'd probably at least get to embarrass myself squealing and hugging the poor thing a lot.
Anydangway, Elly's probably not gay even if she is attracted to her, although she's a video game character so it really shouldn't freaking matter to you, and given how many tired stereotypes she's otherwise lugging around, maybe we should just be grateful there's some subtlety for once.
Either way, our brains don't function in the strict rules society does. Having a crush on someone of the same gender doesn't make you gay, bisexual, straight, or anything in-between in and of itself; you just have a crush on that person, and while we insist on making it more complicated than that, it isn't. Most people aren't straight or gay; they're somewhere in between. Personally, I'm attracted to femininity, and while that may seem pretty exclusive, some males are actually pretty freaking feminine [http://hotnews.cultural-china.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/cross-dresser-liu-zhu.jpg], so even my preferences aren't clear-cut. I actually regularly lament that I'll likely never meet such a male, because my curiosity is piqued as to whether there'd be a mental block anywhere. If nothing else, I'd probably at least get to embarrass myself squealing and hugging the poor thing a lot.
Anydangway, Elly's probably not gay even if she is attracted to her, although she's a video game character so it really shouldn't freaking matter to you, and given how many tired stereotypes she's otherwise lugging around, maybe we should just be grateful there's some subtlety for once.
The amount of salt over a peck on the lips is honestly baffling, but I shouldn't be surprised considering the average level of maturity in most gamers. If a non-straight female character is portrayed in a video game, it's either forced pandering for straight males and the developers obviously just put it in there to state how progressive they are rather than because it would serve the story.
And *gasp* Ellie's romantic interest in Riley (which is confirmed by the way [http://www.wired.com/underwire/2014/02/last-of-us-dlc-interview/]) is there to establish why Ellie is so determined to save Joel. Riley was the first person she truly cared about, and then she died because of a mistake she made. She grew to care about Joel, and she fights tooth and nail to save him, because she grew to care about him as much as she cared about Riley.
As for the relationship being dropped without any build-up, let's examine the scene. It was the end of what was probably the best (subtext filled) night of Ellie's life, they were dancing to music, and Riley confirmed that she would quit the Fireflies and stay with her. Riley, the person who admired the Fireflies and made it her goal in life to fight for them, quit this terrorist organization for Ellie. Ellie knew that it was her dream, and at the moment they were at their happiest, so she acted on her feelings.
For those who say that the revelation was never followed up on, did you forget that immediately afterwards the two had to flee for their lives from infected? Add to the fact that Ellie was directly responsible for Riley getting bitten, and one would have to be incredibly callous to blame her for not deciding to push things further when she realized that they were both going to die. So yeah, showing that they were more concerned about going insane and horribly mutated because of their stupid mistakes felt more real than them embracing each other as true lovers... when their "love" only started five minutes ago.
And as for Ellie not bringing her feelings about Riley up throughout the entire game? Can you honestly blame a teenager for wanting to hide the most traumatic experience in their life? She trusted Joel enough to tell him how Riley affected her, but their relationship is understandably off limits, even to him.
So yeah, I don't care what anyone says. Left Behind gave Ellie more depth as a character by introducing us to a really, REALLY cool friend.
(Oh, and I guess it showed us how she managed to move Joel. That was bugging me.)
And *gasp* Ellie's romantic interest in Riley (which is confirmed by the way [http://www.wired.com/underwire/2014/02/last-of-us-dlc-interview/]) is there to establish why Ellie is so determined to save Joel. Riley was the first person she truly cared about, and then she died because of a mistake she made. She grew to care about Joel, and she fights tooth and nail to save him, because she grew to care about him as much as she cared about Riley.
As for the relationship being dropped without any build-up, let's examine the scene. It was the end of what was probably the best (subtext filled) night of Ellie's life, they were dancing to music, and Riley confirmed that she would quit the Fireflies and stay with her. Riley, the person who admired the Fireflies and made it her goal in life to fight for them, quit this terrorist organization for Ellie. Ellie knew that it was her dream, and at the moment they were at their happiest, so she acted on her feelings.
For those who say that the revelation was never followed up on, did you forget that immediately afterwards the two had to flee for their lives from infected? Add to the fact that Ellie was directly responsible for Riley getting bitten, and one would have to be incredibly callous to blame her for not deciding to push things further when she realized that they were both going to die. So yeah, showing that they were more concerned about going insane and horribly mutated because of their stupid mistakes felt more real than them embracing each other as true lovers... when their "love" only started five minutes ago.
And as for Ellie not bringing her feelings about Riley up throughout the entire game? Can you honestly blame a teenager for wanting to hide the most traumatic experience in their life? She trusted Joel enough to tell him how Riley affected her, but their relationship is understandably off limits, even to him.
So yeah, I don't care what anyone says. Left Behind gave Ellie more depth as a character by introducing us to a really, REALLY cool friend.
(Oh, and I guess it showed us how she managed to move Joel. That was bugging me.)
Its gotten to the point, that all this diversity stuff in video games is starting to look reeeaaal cynical.
![[REDACTED]](https://eg-forums-escapist-data.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/data/avatars/l/129/129871.jpg?1621054700){kind=avatar}
I know, seriously. I really wish video games would be willing to occasionally take the commercially risky route and cast the protagonist as a straight, brown-haired thirtysomething white guy. But it looks like artistic integrity really is dead.launchpadmcqwak said:
[small]/sarcasm[/small]
If nothing else Left Behind did at least offer something of an equivalent to the prologue with Joel and Sarah, but for Ellie. Giving a brief glimpse into her "normal" life before the proper beginning of the game when the harsh realities of this world first took something important from her.
The amount of shock the kiss scene got is baffling but not surprising coming from the video game community. Like others have said, I don't believe the kiss had any baring on sexual orientation and instead was a kiss in a emotional moment between friends. If someone is straight they do not have to be talking about getting laid by the opposite sex all the time and if they are gay they do not have to be flamboyant. Not saying definitively that Ellie is straight/gay/bi, but this scene was just a quick look into her love of a friend. I feel she would have done the same thing if Riley was a boy.
My only issue with the DLC was Riley's reaction when she found out she was bitten. She took the fact that she will die in a few hours unrealistically well. Not impossible mind you, but I had a hard time buying her cool behavior.
My only issue with the DLC was Riley's reaction when she found out she was bitten. She took the fact that she will die in a few hours unrealistically well. Not impossible mind you, but I had a hard time buying her cool behavior.
Do people not remember what it was like being 15? It would be more common for her to believe she was straight at that age, but find out later that the reason why she never felt connected to her significant other was because she is gay. It isn't impossible for her to actually know that she's gay either. Just like how many of us knew that we are straight.
As for the peck on the lips, was anyone expecting full on french kissing? What 15 year old goes for a full on kiss the first time (outside of movies and teen dramas) without it being a wreck? This was the first time they kissed each other,and as far as we know one of the few times that Ellie has kissed anyone.
As for the peck on the lips, was anyone expecting full on french kissing? What 15 year old goes for a full on kiss the first time (outside of movies and teen dramas) without it being a wreck? This was the first time they kissed each other,and as far as we know one of the few times that Ellie has kissed anyone.
Ellie is like 14 or 15, does no one remember that time in your life? You don't even know who you are at that time, I sure as heck didn't. Hormones flooding your mind at all times and barely knowing who you are as a person. Ellie was totally alone in the world and Riley was her only connection in the entire world despite their rather strained friendship. Experimenting, bisexual, lesbian, severe desperation to cling to the one person she has left, some combination(?) *Shrugs* who knows she is a young teenager, nothing is set in stone at that time typically. If they create a new the last of us where its years in the future and Ellie is at the least a few years older and they bring it up her sexuality in some way (boyfriend,girlfriend, something else) then we'll have a better grasp on her sexuality if you really care that much about her preferences. I just thought it was an innocent moment of being a teenager , but of course the internet freaks out about it. I cannot wait for the day when this stuff just doesn't make headlines anymore, when everyone regards this kind of thing the same way you regard seeing James bond kiss some girl, treating it like wallpaper and forgetting it.
So, a question for everyone who keeps insisting that kissing another girl on the lips in no way indicates that Ellie is gay:
If she had kissed a boy, would you respond by saying that she's just young and doesn't know what her feelings are, clearly they're just friends and Ellie is in no way heterosexual because of it?
(Also, there have been multiple interviews with Neil Druckmann and others at Naughty Dog which have confirmed that Ellie and Riley had romantic feelings for each other. In earlier drafts of the story it was made much more obvious. Given threads like this, maybe they should have left that stuff in)
If she had kissed a boy, would you respond by saying that she's just young and doesn't know what her feelings are, clearly they're just friends and Ellie is in no way heterosexual because of it?
(Also, there have been multiple interviews with Neil Druckmann and others at Naughty Dog which have confirmed that Ellie and Riley had romantic feelings for each other. In earlier drafts of the story it was made much more obvious. Given threads like this, maybe they should have left that stuff in)
I 'unno. I found it kinda... token, I guess?
Ellie can be as gay or bi as she likes, but just throwing it in there never to come up again felt a bit on the perfunctory side, y'know.
Also, on a tangential note, we really should have seen Riley die. That, and the effect it has on Ellie, would seem to fit as the natural conclusion to proceedings. But then they cut it short. They must have had their reasons, but be damned if I know what those reason are. I just hope one of them wasn't "Oh fuck, our mo-cap budget is running out!"
Ellie can be as gay or bi as she likes, but just throwing it in there never to come up again felt a bit on the perfunctory side, y'know.
Also, on a tangential note, we really should have seen Riley die. That, and the effect it has on Ellie, would seem to fit as the natural conclusion to proceedings. But then they cut it short. They must have had their reasons, but be damned if I know what those reason are. I just hope one of them wasn't "Oh fuck, our mo-cap budget is running out!"
They also should've cut that whole Winter nonsense so we could've spent more time with Riley, and maybe have gotten to know and care for her. Action be damned.Zhukov said:
Really, the only part of this DLC that had a genuine effect on me was when Ellie puts up a brave face and tells Riley she should just go before she gets caught by the military, but then as they're dancing to the music she breaks down and begs her to stay.
Okay, I am going to say this RIGHT NOW that I am about to go into a very dark place with my theory about what Ellie is. If you lack the emotional and mental maturity to handle that, I suggest you skip right on by this post.
All the sensitive types gone? Good. Here's my take.
Ellie's world revolves around rape and sexual assault.
Think about it; she's thirteen. The world went to hell twenty years ago. At the time she was born law and order simply did not exist. All we know of her childhood is that she grew up in a military orphanage. No mention is ever made of her father, and her mother is always absent. We are told her mother is a Firefly, so she clearly had some reason to want to fight against the government, such as it is. Being sexually abused by the very people who are supposed to protect her would do that. It also explains why nothing is ever said of Ellie's father. It is implied he is dead at the start of Last of Us, but never outright stated. In Left Behind Ellie has a chance to ask about her mother, but not her father. Why? Because Ellie never knew him - and her mother didn't WANT her to know him.
Moreover, think about Marlene; she claims the only future Ellie has is to be raped and murdered. Isn't that a strange comment from a woman leading the resistance? Maybe... unless you consider that Marlene knows Ellie's mother, and so knows how she was conceived.
And then there's the orphanage again. Lots of children under military guard, with no parents and no-one to turn to but their guards. Do you really think it wouldn't happen? Think about the Left Behind intro again; Ellie has no roommate, and there is no acknowledgement of Riley pointing that out. Instead, she turns the conversation right back to "You're a Firefly now?". No confirmation, nor dismissal. Just flat out avoidance. She also feels the need to sleep with a flick-knife under her pillow. In a secure building, in the middle of a secure compound, she feels the need to keep a weapon with her while she sleeps.
Finally, think about David. His approaches to Ellie have sexual undertones, and look how it ends. The last time Ellie killed someone in a cinematic it was efficient - one shot, one kill. But David? She hits him in the face with a machete in the face TEN TIMES, and when Joel grabs her she screams "Don't fucking touch me!", followed by "he tried to-". She knew what he was going to to do her, and she fought back like a wild animal. That panic suggests she has been through it before.
So where does this all leave Ellie, Riley and the kiss? Because what happened to Ellie is likely not just a rape-and-forget affair; she was probably groomed. That suggests some degree of mental programming, telling her things like "you should enjoy sex", or "I'm doing it to show you how much I care about you." This would then apply to Ellie's other social interactions, and so when she feels a strong bond with Riley she has become conditioned to expect a sexual encounter.
Yeah... suffice to say, I spend a lot of time while playing The Last of Us feeling like I should not be enjoying the game...
All the sensitive types gone? Good. Here's my take.
Ellie's world revolves around rape and sexual assault.
Think about it; she's thirteen. The world went to hell twenty years ago. At the time she was born law and order simply did not exist. All we know of her childhood is that she grew up in a military orphanage. No mention is ever made of her father, and her mother is always absent. We are told her mother is a Firefly, so she clearly had some reason to want to fight against the government, such as it is. Being sexually abused by the very people who are supposed to protect her would do that. It also explains why nothing is ever said of Ellie's father. It is implied he is dead at the start of Last of Us, but never outright stated. In Left Behind Ellie has a chance to ask about her mother, but not her father. Why? Because Ellie never knew him - and her mother didn't WANT her to know him.
Moreover, think about Marlene; she claims the only future Ellie has is to be raped and murdered. Isn't that a strange comment from a woman leading the resistance? Maybe... unless you consider that Marlene knows Ellie's mother, and so knows how she was conceived.
And then there's the orphanage again. Lots of children under military guard, with no parents and no-one to turn to but their guards. Do you really think it wouldn't happen? Think about the Left Behind intro again; Ellie has no roommate, and there is no acknowledgement of Riley pointing that out. Instead, she turns the conversation right back to "You're a Firefly now?". No confirmation, nor dismissal. Just flat out avoidance. She also feels the need to sleep with a flick-knife under her pillow. In a secure building, in the middle of a secure compound, she feels the need to keep a weapon with her while she sleeps.
Finally, think about David. His approaches to Ellie have sexual undertones, and look how it ends. The last time Ellie killed someone in a cinematic it was efficient - one shot, one kill. But David? She hits him in the face with a machete in the face TEN TIMES, and when Joel grabs her she screams "Don't fucking touch me!", followed by "he tried to-". She knew what he was going to to do her, and she fought back like a wild animal. That panic suggests she has been through it before.
So where does this all leave Ellie, Riley and the kiss? Because what happened to Ellie is likely not just a rape-and-forget affair; she was probably groomed. That suggests some degree of mental programming, telling her things like "you should enjoy sex", or "I'm doing it to show you how much I care about you." This would then apply to Ellie's other social interactions, and so when she feels a strong bond with Riley she has become conditioned to expect a sexual encounter.
Yeah... suffice to say, I spend a lot of time while playing The Last of Us feeling like I should not be enjoying the game...
Far be it from me to tell you not to read too much into it, but yeah...Wargamer said:
David has by that point been presented as someone for the audience to hate, and so it's only natural for Ellie to satisfy our desire to brutally murder him to death.
Sure, rape exists in that world, just as it does in this one, but that doesn't mean the entire world revolves around it.
I didn't say the entire world revolved around it - I'm saying it has blighted Ellie's life since conception.
One of the things that Last of Us does right is to explore how people react when the world goes to hell. A lot of the "villains" in the game are people just doing what they feel is necessary to survive. Do some of them enjoy it a bit too much? Yeah, sure, but if you listen carefully you'll hear the cannibals talk about the women and children they're trying to feed, and there are notes about raiders who despise their overly kill-hungry peers.
David is a villain, yes, but his death is not satisfying; it's horrifying. What Ellie does to him is brutal, so much so that we aren't even allowed to see the result. Instead, we see Ellie reduced to a mewling infant by the horror of what she just did, and the knowledge of what he would have done had she not killed him.
You aren't meant to feel satisfied when David dies, just as you aren't meant to root for Joel when he tortures people, or be entertained when Ellie tears people's throats out with her knife. You are supposed to be appalled, even sickened by it. And to a degree, so are the characters. The brutality has become a part of their life, and they are increasingly numb to it. Ellie is shell-shocked by her initial kill, but by the end she is almost enjoying it.
The Last of Us is a horror game at heart; it is bleak, brutal and disturbing, and every time it looks as though there is light at the end of the tunnel it turns out to be someone's house burning down.
One of the things that Last of Us does right is to explore how people react when the world goes to hell. A lot of the "villains" in the game are people just doing what they feel is necessary to survive. Do some of them enjoy it a bit too much? Yeah, sure, but if you listen carefully you'll hear the cannibals talk about the women and children they're trying to feed, and there are notes about raiders who despise their overly kill-hungry peers.
David is a villain, yes, but his death is not satisfying; it's horrifying. What Ellie does to him is brutal, so much so that we aren't even allowed to see the result. Instead, we see Ellie reduced to a mewling infant by the horror of what she just did, and the knowledge of what he would have done had she not killed him.
You aren't meant to feel satisfied when David dies, just as you aren't meant to root for Joel when he tortures people, or be entertained when Ellie tears people's throats out with her knife. You are supposed to be appalled, even sickened by it. And to a degree, so are the characters. The brutality has become a part of their life, and they are increasingly numb to it. Ellie is shell-shocked by her initial kill, but by the end she is almost enjoying it.
The Last of Us is a horror game at heart; it is bleak, brutal and disturbing, and every time it looks as though there is light at the end of the tunnel it turns out to be someone's house burning down.