Gays and Homophobia

[thublihnk]

I support gay rights, but I wish they'd all be a bit less obvious. Sexuality shouldn't have any effect on how you dress or your mannerisms, just who you sleep with. So if you are not holding your significant other's hand, I should not know which way you swing. I say this based on two gay guys I am friends with, one of whom I would never have guessed if he hadn't told me, and the other, lets just I get a lot of fashion advice from.

Why can't people dress the way they want? Why can't gays express their individuality? Why should everyone have to dress in the hetero standard?

 

[Char-Nobyl]

to say, that Im against gays wouldn describe me as a whole. I dont agree with them, and Im shure they are wrong, but that doesent mean that I hate them. (and the term "homophobia" is gay propaganda, I would be glad, if society could terminate that word)

Riiiiight...there were a few issues with that, not the least of which being your grasp of English.

When you say "wrong"...I can narrow it down to a few possible meanings of that. Does "wrong" mean incorrect? That they're somehow accidentally being gay because no one bothered to say something? Or "wrong" on the most basic scale, where they're abominations against mankind? Or just the usual (unreasonable) demand that they stop being gay because you don't like it?

Uh-huh...that "homophobia" spiel really cranked the crazy up to eleven. So "the gays" have a massive, propaganda-fueled conspiracy to make society accept them...and because of this, you think that "homophobia" is a misnomer for you? That's like someone who got sectioned claiming that "the spiders" are lurking all around him, but also thinks that "arachnophobia" is just another cog in the massive spider-fueled conspiracy engine.

I have no problem with gays and lesbians. Its funny how people pick on homosexuals, but no one makes fun or necropheliacs, pedophiles, zoopheliacs, guro freaks, lolicon fans, scatolphelia, beastiality, and rapists.

Oh, we do make fun of them. Most of the time, we do it in judicial form, ie "what you're doing is illegal, meet your cellmate Bubba."

 

[thublihnk]

Gay pride is highly illogical. No one should be proud of conditions beyond their control. Rather, people should be proud of what they achieved and what choices they made.

I'm not proud of being white, nor being mainly heterosexual, nor being an American. I am proud of being a Libertarian, an Atheist, and holding down my job (I feel I'm the best at my company right now because I love my job).

However, no one should be ashamed of such conditions neither. Gay pride is silly to me, just as hetero pride or black pride or white pride are silly to me. Why be proud of something you didn't choose? *shrugs*

Gay pride is less about being proud that they're a homosexual and more about being proud that they've overcome the societal stigma of being ashamed to be homosexual. It's about being true to yourself despite the hate and bigotry. That takes pride, and that takes courage.

That's understandable but more a triumph of the human condition. Though I never understood the outlandish gay pride parades. I tend to not take people seriously when they're wearing a thong and boa in public.

Okay, then should I dismiss a group of heterosexuals just because one of them is wearing a 'Female Body Inspector' shirt?

If a large group is? Absolutely. But in New York we can see a ton of people dressing in such a way. Where I live the Gay Pride Parade is a bit toned down and is taken much more seriously. The gay community actually didn't allow an activist to join the march because he was dressed too provocatively.

Again, just a small segment of the pride parades are dressed as you're talking about. I live in Austin, Texas, one of the more outlandish towns in the country and still most people at pride parades are just civil people who are proud of what they are.

Ahhh, I see where I miswrote. I didn't mean to imply that I don't take EVERY gay pride parade unseriously. I only take the more outlandish ones as a bit silly. There are plenty of gay pride parades that actively strive to better conditions. Certainly a few members of the movement will be controversial, but I was mainly addressing the New York style parade which, truthfully, harms the homosexual community in the south as it provides a stereotypical view of homosexuals that scares the Bible belters.

Well, if homosexuals expressing themselves in the way of their choosing scares the bible-belters I hope they sh*t their pants.

 

[Oh That Dude]

I support gay rights, but I wish they'd all be a bit less obvious. Sexuality shouldn't have any effect on how you dress or your mannerisms, just who you sleep with.

It doesn't affect anything else. Personality dictates the rest. You have made the connection between camp and gay, the fact that your friend is both doesn't mean he is being camp for any other reason than he likes it.

 

[Torrasque]

I'm one of the what you do behind closed doors doesn't bother me kind of person.

Agreed.
Male homosexuality inherently creeps me out, I guess I was just raised that way.
But I don't dislike homosexuals, and I respect them as people no matter what they do so (more or less)

 

[thublihnk]

I support gay rights, but I wish they'd all be a bit less obvious. Sexuality shouldn't have any effect on how you dress or your mannerisms, just who you sleep with.

It doesn't affect anything else. Personality dictates the rest. You have made the connection between camp and gay, the fact that your friend is both doesn't mean he is being camp for any other reason than he likes it.

I like what you're saying and I LOVE your avatar.

 

[Cliff_m85]

Gay pride is highly illogical. No one should be proud of conditions beyond their control. Rather, people should be proud of what they achieved and what choices they made.

I'm not proud of being white, nor being mainly heterosexual, nor being an American. I am proud of being a Libertarian, an Atheist, and holding down my job (I feel I'm the best at my company right now because I love my job).

However, no one should be ashamed of such conditions neither. Gay pride is silly to me, just as hetero pride or black pride or white pride are silly to me. Why be proud of something you didn't choose? *shrugs*

Gay pride is less about being proud that they're a homosexual and more about being proud that they've overcome the societal stigma of being ashamed to be homosexual. It's about being true to yourself despite the hate and bigotry. That takes pride, and that takes courage.

That's understandable but more a triumph of the human condition. Though I never understood the outlandish gay pride parades. I tend to not take people seriously when they're wearing a thong and boa in public.

Okay, then should I dismiss a group of heterosexuals just because one of them is wearing a 'Female Body Inspector' shirt?

If a large group is? Absolutely. But in New York we can see a ton of people dressing in such a way. Where I live the Gay Pride Parade is a bit toned down and is taken much more seriously. The gay community actually didn't allow an activist to join the march because he was dressed too provocatively.

Again, just a small segment of the pride parades are dressed as you're talking about. I live in Austin, Texas, one of the more outlandish towns in the country and still most people at pride parades are just civil people who are proud of what they are.

Ahhh, I see where I miswrote. I didn't mean to imply that I don't take EVERY gay pride parade unseriously. I only take the more outlandish ones as a bit silly. There are plenty of gay pride parades that actively strive to better conditions. Certainly a few members of the movement will be controversial, but I was mainly addressing the New York style parade which, truthfully, harms the homosexual community in the south as it provides a stereotypical view of homosexuals that scares the Bible belters.

Well, if homosexuals expressing themselves in the way of their choosing scares the bible-belters I hope they sh*t their pants.

Understandable. But let me share this with you.

Three years ago I was walking on my college campus in Arkansas. I noticed four men surrounding a downed man. I approached and found that they were screaming "******" while kicking/stomping him. I pushed through them and managed to get them off him long enough for the guy to get up and stumble off. As I turned to follow the dude, who needed medical help, I felt a hard sting on the back of my head. Someone threw a beer bottle at me and yelled "****** lover". I was a bit high on adreniline so I ignored it and walked with the dude, talking with him and getting him to the nurses office. When I got there they looked over my head and found I needed three stitches. No big deal. *shrugs*

Two months later one of those four men approached me from behind and pressed a knife against my back, saying that if I ever help a ****** again he'd stab me in the ass, since I'd probably enjoy that.

Being a gay supporter and Atheist in my location is quite hard to do. So, perhaps unreasonably, I see those kinds of gay pride parades as a bit foolish. I may most certainly be wrong, but from my viewpoint I wish it wouldn't be quite as.....well.....flashy. *shrugs* But I may most certainly be wrong.

 

[Char-Nobyl]

Why can't people dress the way they want? Why can't gays express their individuality? Why should everyone have to dress in the hetero standard?

Well, there's public decency laws, to start with. That's more to the extreme, but the general consensus isn't that people dress to "the hetero standard," but to dress appropriately for the context at hand. If anything, whatever oppressive norm you're alluding to is one that doesn't emphasize sexuality.

 

[gamedesignkrw]

I am a straight female that is entering the game design community. Of course being interested in video games during the time video games were a "guys" thing, and I am a bit of a tomboy people stereotype me. I have nothing against people who are homosexual, or bisexual. I get along with guys better than other girls because girls are just bitchy most of the time. That does NOT make me a lesbian... This stereotype needs to get out of peoples' heads.

I will say that I am interested in this threads intention. I would like to know why people think, or act on what they believe whether it is for or against this controversy. Only because I don't have an understanding how you cannot be interested in one sex or the other, hence bisexual. I believe people should be entitled to their likes, and stand up for them; no matter how much I do not understand them. I would not mind gaining a better understanding if someone would finally answer the initially questions.

What happened to the freedom of others? Why does it matter what others do if it does not bother you? Nothing is our own in this world anymore and it is sad, but that is why we should turn to video games! Thanks for your time, and continue to be you!

 

[Zeetchmen]

Feel free to bum whoever you want.

I am just alarmed at the rising amount of Bisexuals among women, dieing values on the homefront? More at 11

 

[TheDoctor455]

Really... it doesn't matter if one defines homosexuality or bisexuality as a choice or as a biological factor imposed at birth. Neither case is a good reason to deny someone the right to the pursuit of happiness. I'm "straight"... whatever the fuck that really means.

But... as an atheist... I think I may have some idea what people in the "homosexual community" are going through. In public, I often see groups of the "Faithful" openly talking about their religion of choice, and the very instant that I try to join in the discussion, I am usually, in order: glared at, called a "devil worshiper", "heretic", and/or "non-believer" (none of which really make since... except the third one, but my reaction to that one is "duh?"), and sometimes I have actually been threatened. And the thing that always struck me is that I always made an effort to be polite and respectful about it, and to not disparage other peoples' belief systems (except when the start using religion as a justification for their own bigotries). Why can they freely talk about their beliefs, while I don't seem to be allowed to?

 

[thublihnk]

Gay pride is highly illogical. No one should be proud of conditions beyond their control. Rather, people should be proud of what they achieved and what choices they made.

I'm not proud of being white, nor being mainly heterosexual, nor being an American. I am proud of being a Libertarian, an Atheist, and holding down my job (I feel I'm the best at my company right now because I love my job).

However, no one should be ashamed of such conditions neither. Gay pride is silly to me, just as hetero pride or black pride or white pride are silly to me. Why be proud of something you didn't choose? *shrugs*

Gay pride is less about being proud that they're a homosexual and more about being proud that they've overcome the societal stigma of being ashamed to be homosexual. It's about being true to yourself despite the hate and bigotry. That takes pride, and that takes courage.

That's understandable but more a triumph of the human condition. Though I never understood the outlandish gay pride parades. I tend to not take people seriously when they're wearing a thong and boa in public.

Okay, then should I dismiss a group of heterosexuals just because one of them is wearing a 'Female Body Inspector' shirt?

If a large group is? Absolutely. But in New York we can see a ton of people dressing in such a way. Where I live the Gay Pride Parade is a bit toned down and is taken much more seriously. The gay community actually didn't allow an activist to join the march because he was dressed too provocatively.

Again, just a small segment of the pride parades are dressed as you're talking about. I live in Austin, Texas, one of the more outlandish towns in the country and still most people at pride parades are just civil people who are proud of what they are.

Ahhh, I see where I miswrote. I didn't mean to imply that I don't take EVERY gay pride parade unseriously. I only take the more outlandish ones as a bit silly. There are plenty of gay pride parades that actively strive to better conditions. Certainly a few members of the movement will be controversial, but I was mainly addressing the New York style parade which, truthfully, harms the homosexual community in the south as it provides a stereotypical view of homosexuals that scares the Bible belters.

Well, if homosexuals expressing themselves in the way of their choosing scares the bible-belters I hope they sh*t their pants.

Understandable. But let me share this with you.

Three years ago I was walking on my college campus in Arkansas. I noticed four men surrounding a downed man. I approached and found that they were screaming "******" while kicking/stomping him. I pushed through them and managed to get them off him long enough for the guy to get up and stumble off. As I turned to follow the dude, who needed medical help, I felt a hard sting on the back of my head. Someone threw a beer bottle at me and yelled "****** lover". I was a bit high on adreniline so I ignored it and walked with the dude, talking with him and getting him to the nurses office. When I got there they looked over my head and found I needed three stitches. No big deal. *shrugs*

Two months later one of those four men approached me from behind and pressed a knife against my back, saying that if I ever help a ****** again he'd stab me in the ass, since I'd probably enjoy that.

Being a gay supporter and Atheist in my location is quite hard to do. So, perhaps unreasonably, I see those kinds of gay pride parades as a bit foolish. I may most certainly be wrong, but from my viewpoint I wish it wouldn't be quite as.....well.....flashy. *shrugs* But I may most certainly be wrong.

Those people are just flat out wrong and nothing anyone will ever do (or not do) will stop them from doing the absolutely fucked up things they do. I know where you're coming from, Austin is a bit of a safe haven but if I drive for half an hour in any direction I'm in the exact kind of place you're talking about.

But the real point is this: if the people in New York tone it down to appease those ignorant fucks, then the ignorant fucks have leverage. That's what gay pride is about--we're not afraid to express ourselves in public anymore, and we're not going to be intimidated by violence and bigotry. The gay activists aren't going to be controlled by what the ignorant and violent wish they would do by toning it down, just like I would hope you wouldn't give pause to help a '******' just because of threats of violence.

 

[thublihnk]

Why can't people dress the way they want? Why can't gays express their individuality? Why should everyone have to dress in the hetero standard?

Well, there's public decency laws, to start with. That's more to the extreme, but the general consensus isn't that people dress to "the hetero standard," but to dress appropriately for the context at hand. If anything, whatever oppressive norm you're alluding to is one that doesn't emphasize sexuality.

I was speaking less of 'wearing thongs in public' and more of what I assumed the person I was quoting was talking about, dressing effeminately, or in what is considered the norm for homosexuals. (I.E. the 'metrosexual' fashion)

 

[Slayer_2]

I'm boring old straight, but I'm all for gay rights, "camp", "butch", and extremely gay acting people aggravate me, though. I'm not discriminating, I dislike ultra-masculine "tough-guys" too. Also lesbians that hate men can buzz off. If a gay guy hit on me, I might be a bit embarrassed, but I'd survive, I'm sure.

 

[Cliff_m85]

Gay pride is highly illogical. No one should be proud of conditions beyond their control. Rather, people should be proud of what they achieved and what choices they made.

I'm not proud of being white, nor being mainly heterosexual, nor being an American. I am proud of being a Libertarian, an Atheist, and holding down my job (I feel I'm the best at my company right now because I love my job).

However, no one should be ashamed of such conditions neither. Gay pride is silly to me, just as hetero pride or black pride or white pride are silly to me. Why be proud of something you didn't choose? *shrugs*

Gay pride is less about being proud that they're a homosexual and more about being proud that they've overcome the societal stigma of being ashamed to be homosexual. It's about being true to yourself despite the hate and bigotry. That takes pride, and that takes courage.

That's understandable but more a triumph of the human condition. Though I never understood the outlandish gay pride parades. I tend to not take people seriously when they're wearing a thong and boa in public.

Okay, then should I dismiss a group of heterosexuals just because one of them is wearing a 'Female Body Inspector' shirt?

If a large group is? Absolutely. But in New York we can see a ton of people dressing in such a way. Where I live the Gay Pride Parade is a bit toned down and is taken much more seriously. The gay community actually didn't allow an activist to join the march because he was dressed too provocatively.

Again, just a small segment of the pride parades are dressed as you're talking about. I live in Austin, Texas, one of the more outlandish towns in the country and still most people at pride parades are just civil people who are proud of what they are.

Ahhh, I see where I miswrote. I didn't mean to imply that I don't take EVERY gay pride parade unseriously. I only take the more outlandish ones as a bit silly. There are plenty of gay pride parades that actively strive to better conditions. Certainly a few members of the movement will be controversial, but I was mainly addressing the New York style parade which, truthfully, harms the homosexual community in the south as it provides a stereotypical view of homosexuals that scares the Bible belters.

Well, if homosexuals expressing themselves in the way of their choosing scares the bible-belters I hope they sh*t their pants.

Understandable. But let me share this with you.

Three years ago I was walking on my college campus in Arkansas. I noticed four men surrounding a downed man. I approached and found that they were screaming "******" while kicking/stomping him. I pushed through them and managed to get them off him long enough for the guy to get up and stumble off. As I turned to follow the dude, who needed medical help, I felt a hard sting on the back of my head. Someone threw a beer bottle at me and yelled "****** lover". I was a bit high on adreniline so I ignored it and walked with the dude, talking with him and getting him to the nurses office. When I got there they looked over my head and found I needed three stitches. No big deal. *shrugs*

Two months later one of those four men approached me from behind and pressed a knife against my back, saying that if I ever help a ****** again he'd stab me in the ass, since I'd probably enjoy that.

Being a gay supporter and Atheist in my location is quite hard to do. So, perhaps unreasonably, I see those kinds of gay pride parades as a bit foolish. I may most certainly be wrong, but from my viewpoint I wish it wouldn't be quite as.....well.....flashy. *shrugs* But I may most certainly be wrong.

Those people are just flat out wrong and nothing anyone will ever do (or not do) will stop them from doing the absolutely fucked up things they do. I know where you're coming from, Austin is a bit of a safe haven but if I drive for half an hour in any direction I'm in the exact kind of place you're talking about.

But the real point is this: if the people in New York tone it down to appease those ignorant fucks, then the ignorant fucks have leverage. That's what gay pride is about--we're not afraid to express ourselves in public anymore, and we're not going to be intimidated by violence and bigotry. The gay activists aren't going to be controlled by what the ignorant and violent wish they would do by toning it down, just like I would hope you wouldn't give pause to help a '******' just because of threats of violence.

I think I understand a bit more. I do understand the breaking of taboos in that form, but I guess it all comes down to intent. It'd be foolish and presumptious of me to assume that the people in the parade are just doing it for "teh lulz". So yeah, I'll admit that I'm a bit wrong on the topic.

 

[Wardnath]

I know what you mean. Words hurt. I got both ends of the spectrum. So I started being fast with my mouth and faster with my fists, because bullies hate it when you talk back. It sucks, and I totally feel you on that. I didn't break so much as snapped.

Not sure we're talking about the same spectrum here.

But yeah, I agree with you for the most part.

 

[Irony's Acolyte]

Straight, so nothing really interesting with that. I'm all for people who are different than me (because that's what gays/lesbians/bi-s/trans-/whatever are) having the same rights as me. They're people too blah, blah, blah, right to be happy blah, blah, blah I'm sure this has all been said before.

While I understand why there are some of those really flamboyant homosexuals out there who like to parade their sexuality around (they're finally getting the acceptance and rights they deserve, they should be able to celebrate a bit) I do believe that eventually they need to calm down. You're getting the rights that every other sexual orientation has, but you're also getting the responsibilities and expectances of that other sexual orientations have. PDoA are fine, but there's no need to get all in people's faces about you being gay. It becomes immature after a while and I'd say the same thing to a straight person.

 

[Char-Nobyl]

Well, there's public decency laws, to start with. That's more to the extreme, but the general consensus isn't that people dress to "the hetero standard," but to dress appropriately for the context at hand. If anything, whatever oppressive norm you're alluding to is one that doesn't emphasize sexuality.

I was speaking less of 'wearing thongs in public' and more of what I assumed the person I was quoting was talking about, dressing effeminately, or in what is considered the norm for homosexuals. (I.E. the 'metrosexual' fashion)

When I said "appropriately," I tried to cite it separately from "decent." When I talk about dressing appropriately, I'm thinking about wearing a jacket and tie to a job interview, or boots and work clothes when doing physical labor. "Dressing for the occasion" comes to mind.

 

[runnernda]

I'm bisexual and I'm for gay rights. It's just segregation all over again, denying rights to people because of something they can't change.

 

[meticadpa]

I'm totally fine with homosexuals, bisexuals, whatever, and I'm male and straight.

As long as they're not flaunting it ridiculously, I don't care. After all, I don't walk around with a t-shirt that says "I FUCKING LOVE TITS" on it.

Gay marriage I'm fine with. Marriage is nothing but a piece of paper.