Gene Simmons Declares War on Anonymous

[Krion_Vark]

So saying that every college kid that used the service when it first came out as well as the people who created it right when it first came out would have amounted to what? tops 2 thousand?

'tops 2 thousand'? Please at least try to keep your hyperbole under control (it was considerably more than 2,000).

Metallica named 335,435 people for uploading their music to Napster (so you could assume an order of magnitude more downloaded).

BTW.

My response was to you saying that Simmons had not provoked this attack, when clearly his statements a few weeks ago precipitated annon's actions (and Simmons further comments are designed to keep the publicity rolling in...)

So saying how things could have been handled warranted an attack? And you are supporting this. So if you had a site and said something 4Chan did not like and they attacked your site you wouldn't be pissed and want to take them down? Seriously Anon has decided to go after someone who has A LOT of resources and money he is not going to go down without a fight.

 

[Magnatek]

Is there any way that both can lose? Please?

What are you talking about? It's a war on the internet. It's well past the "Pissing in an Ocean of Piss" allegory. It's more like the Water Cycle, but with Urine.

I'd like to think that it's more of a Urine Drinking Cycle, where you can harmlessly go back and forth three times before it gets just plain unhealthy. I'm guessing what I'm saying here is that both sides are probably going back and forth a couple times before things get REALLY ugly. Right now, it's just a challenge against each other. The ball's in Anon's court now, but the volleys will definitely be powerful near the end of the match.

Sorry for the twin analogies there, but I suppose both are valid in this situation. If it's going to be a long battle, prepare for near internet war zones to pop up.

 

[Paksenarrion]

Is there any way that both can lose? Please?

What are you talking about? It's a war on the internet. It's well past the "Pissing in an Ocean of Piss" allegory. It's more like the Water Cycle, but with Urine.

I'd like to think that it's more of a Urine Drinking Cycle, where you can harmlessly go back and forth three times before it gets just plain unhealthy. I'm guessing what I'm saying here is that both sides are probably going back and forth a couple times before things get REALLY ugly. Right now, it's just a challenge against each other. The ball's in Anon's court now, but the volleys will definitely be powerful near the end of the match.

Sorry for the twin analogies there, but I suppose both are valid in this situation. If it's going to be a long battle, prepare for near internet war zones to pop up.

It's going to be raining urine on the internet. Like that last fight scene in the last Matrix movie. Except instead of rain, it's urine.

 

[Funkysandwich]

So saying that every college kid that used the service when it first came out as well as the people who created it right when it first came out would have amounted to what? tops 2 thousand?

'tops 2 thousand'? Please at least try to keep your hyperbole under control (it was considerably more than 2,000).

Metallica named 335,435 people for uploading their music to Napster (so you could assume an order of magnitude more downloaded).

BTW.

My response was to you saying that Simmons had not provoked this attack, when clearly his statements a few weeks ago precipitated annon's actions (and Simmons further comments are designed to keep the publicity rolling in...)

So saying how things could have been handled warranted an attack? And you are supporting this. So if you had a site and said something 4Chan did not like and they attacked your site you wouldn't be pissed and want to take them down? Seriously Anon has decided to go after someone who has A LOT of resources and money he is not going to go down without a fight.

/b/ also have a lot of resources. Christ alone knows the size of their botnet.

I think it will be interesting to see how this plays out. I can't imagine /b/ ever giving up and there are far too many of them from all across to ever take them all down. Gene Simmons will get a lot more then he bargained for.

 

[Space Jawa]

Hero and supervillain at the same time.

I've heard a lot more bad about them than good. A supervillain going a good deed is still a supervillain unless they can change their ways, try to reject what made them a bad guy in the first place, and start doing a lot more good than harm.

Art isn't a job. If you can make a living by creating art, you are blessed - but that doesn't mean it should always be so for everyone who does the same. The world doesn't owe you a single f***ing thing above and beyond a little common decency and the opportunity to survive and thrive, IMO. Those who think differently, who think that a little bit of "talent" or a single good idea should generate untold millions and a kingly existence, are at the root of our current economic crisis.

I have to say, that's a rather...interesting theory on what's at the root of the current economic crisis.

Though I'm pretty sure that most the art we have these days is due to people being able to make a profit off of it. So yeah, "Art" can be a job. Or rather, a career.

If someone wants to make a piece of art in their spare time and give it away for free, they are perfectly entitled to do so. But that doesn't mean an artist should always be expected to do their work with 0 expectation of possible compensation. Especially if it's something that would be far too big to accomplish if they had a paying job to worry about on the side.

 

[ZodiacBraves]

First he had a story about a leaking boat (a decent analogy for making his point IMO)

This seems like a throwaway point in this thread, but it's really the heart of the matter.

I don't believe the standard music model, as represented by Gene Simmons and the organizations allied with him, is a boat. A boat, as an object, is really quite beyond reproach. It serves a very specific and valid function. That it should leak is not a given symptom of its nature; leaking is not integral to its existence as a boat.

The boat of our modern day music industry, as presented by Simmons and his ilk, leaks necessarily - because it is not sound. They attempt to make it sound through force of will and litigation, but that does not make it a boat.

For the boat to function as an appropriate analogy for this industry, these leaks would have to be fixable aberrations rather than revealing, systemic flaws.

In other words, I believe the existence of leaks, in this case, means we're not in a boat. It's more like a collection of shoddy, hastily-assembled planks that is quickly coming undone beneath us, as it should. People like Simmons are desperately trying to hold it all together because it generates abnormally lavish lifestyles for them. Despite their cries and legal manipulations, that is not a valid reason to maintain an outlandish system.

First off I want to reiterate, I do not support Gene Simmons' ideas of how the system should be run. I didn't make that extremely clear in my previous post, partially because I was trying to play the devil's advocate in this situation. I think that Gene Simmons' idea may work for a while, but there is no way to "hogtie" the internet into submission. The only way for long term sustainability of the music industry right now is to adapt and change to work with the advantages the internet has to offer, to be original/take a new approach in this business.

My point in my previous post was that his analogy (stopping the leaky boat before it gets too far) was a decent story/analogy for his opinion on stopping people from pirating before it gets out of control. Perfect? Hell no, far from it.

If I had to make my own analogy around a boat I would probably relate it somewhat to the Titanic. Fixing a glass-sized leak while ignoring the iceberg dead ahead. He is focusing on the immediate problem rather than the large scale collapse possibly looming in the future.

I do think Gene Simmons fighting a losing battle, and his refusal to adapt (he does mention change/adaption somewhat in the video, but it doesn't seem like he is changing much) is probably going to end up being his downfall in the music business (at least he still has a TV show to fall on?).

This system will most likely fail someday, and it will also rebuild itself back up. My reason for posting originally is A. people were taking his statements out of context/misunderstanding his words, and B. trying to point out where his rational may have came from.

He is not a bad guy. He is not an evil, anti-music sellout. He is a different person with a different opinion on what bands are (bands vs brands). Although his opinion may end up biting him in the ass someday, that isn't ours, or Anonymous's choice to attack him in attempt to force him to change his opinion to ours.

I don't claim to know him at all, but based on the video and the way he emphasized/worded his argument, I don't see the malicious intent that everyone seems to be saying. He is just a relatively good businessman discussing how to try and protect your brand (whether or not you think a band should be a brand is up to you, but he has definitely made it a brand). He probably shouldn't have made enemies with Anon, but I am interested in watching him try.

I hope his ideas don't catch on (don't think they will), but if he was talking about pirating/stealing actual brands (food/clothing/etc, I'm failing at thinking up a good example) we might not be so hasty to judge him on his beliefs, only how forward he was with them.

Edit: minor clarification.

 

[Krion_Vark]

So saying that every college kid that used the service when it first came out as well as the people who created it right when it first came out would have amounted to what? tops 2 thousand?

'tops 2 thousand'? Please at least try to keep your hyperbole under control (it was considerably more than 2,000).

Metallica named 335,435 people for uploading their music to Napster (so you could assume an order of magnitude more downloaded).

BTW.

My response was to you saying that Simmons had not provoked this attack, when clearly his statements a few weeks ago precipitated annon's actions (and Simmons further comments are designed to keep the publicity rolling in...)

So saying how things could have been handled warranted an attack? And you are supporting this. So if you had a site and said something 4Chan did not like and they attacked your site you wouldn't be pissed and want to take them down? Seriously Anon has decided to go after someone who has A LOT of resources and money he is not going to go down without a fight.

/b/ also have a lot of resources. Christ alone knows the size of their botnet.

I think it will be interesting to see how this plays out. I can't imagine /b/ ever giving up and there are far too many of them from all across to ever take them all down. Gene Simmons will get a lot more then he bargained for.

Is EVERYONE SO FUCKING IGNORANT ABOUT /b/? seriously? Do you really think that EVERYONE on /b/ is part of this. Do you really think that everyone on /b/ is a cracker or SK?
Their bot net could be pretty big but then again bots have to do what you tell them to and they are usually used to go after teh defenses so that you can slip in through the back door when hacking something.

 

[BlackStar42]

You can't sue 10,000 people, but 10,000 people can bring havoc to his website. Mr. Simmons doesn't have a hope in hell.

 

[iLikeHippos]

Oh wow, war on anonymous? This has resulted in disaster for anyone who resisted so I can't see how this could possibly backfire on him.

Well, he got money.... LOTS of money...

He has the upper hand of resources, while Anonymous have the upper hand of... Well... Being anonymous.

I'd expect things to get really even, since Gene Simmons could do MANY a things to reach them.

 

[LocoRocoPandaCookie]

Isn't this just a flame war gone out of hand? This anon stuff seems really childish to me but then again so does Gene Simmons. Once something like lawsuits and FBI gets involved isn't this just a prank that went overboard?

This man has more money than sense and more stuff at his disposal. It'll be fun to watch how all this pans out

If had more money than sense then why the hell is he such a great business man?

Did you miss the part that he has money?

You saying you see the part about the stuff would of made your argument valid. My argument was that if he had more money than sense then why the hell can he still get more money by being a brilliant businessman?

No. His staff are good at running his business. He is just a guy with a lot of money.

 

[manaman]

"...Second, they might find their little butts in jail, right next to someone who's been there for years and is looking for a new girl friend."

Yes Mr Simmons, implying you are going to ensure some kid is raped in prison is an appropriate reaction to your site being taken down for a short time. You are a very grounded and reasonable person, who is not at all out of touch with reality.

 

[3dfx]

Dumb people do dumb things, no one cares. Poor band, poor "star", poor internet group. No one cares, stop threatening people with the FBI, they don't have jurisdiction anywhere but the US soil, and believe it or not, people do exist outside of the US.

Go be a washed up rockstar somewhere else.

Oh wow, war on anonymous? This has resulted in disaster for anyone who resisted so I can't see how this could possibly backfire on him.

Well, he got money.... LOTS of money...

He has the upper hand of resources, while Anonymous have the upper hand of... Well... Being anonymous.

I'd expect things to get really even, since Gene Simmons could do MANY a things to reach them.

Excellent point, he has money. You know who else has money? The record label that gave him his money, they also failed to get young kids raped or whatever Fail Simmons wants (sounds like a pedophile to me).

 

[Zetablade]

Gene you are fuuuuuucked! (4chan references start here. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED)
Anonymous is in your house, gene, blowing up your van (zing!) They're in your pool preventing AIDS.The Internet hate machine is here and they are hackers on steroids.(end). Sorry I just couldn't hold this one back.
OT: Gene made a pretty bad move here. I forsee many DDoS attacks in the near future

 

[superbatranger]

Hey, knock yourself out Simmons. I don't care what you do.

 

[spacewalker]

Anonamys is not limited to the US, meanig if he sued some people in the US people elswere would not back off

 

[cystemic]

what a dick, doesnt he have anything better to do with his time than feed trolls? thought he was cooler than that. RIP Gene Simmons

 

[Candidus]

Rooting for Anonymous.

I hadn't heard about this Gene Simmons prick- not 'till I ran over this thread... I hope his site is kept down; anywhere this asswipe's voice can be muted, it should be.

 

[Fuselage]

"I HAVE BACKTRACED THE INTERNET!!" "I WILL CALL THE CYBERPOLICE ON YOU!"

 

[Fuselage]

Protip: Do Not Screw With Anonymous, They will destroy you, I saw the Encyclopedia Dramatica page and noticed this "We have Mobilized our Forces", Gene just run, they are bad enough when they don't try, now they are going to destroy you, I should know, I was once an Anon, Dark Days......

 

[Azulito]

It feels REALLY odd to say this but for once, Anon is the lesser of two evils. I hope Gene Simmons gets his ass handed to him.

I mean, suing everyone who dare download a song? What a money grabbing asswipe. I mean, he goes lower to then state he he'd sue college students for doing so, y'know, those people with enough financial troubles as it is. The students who could prove useful in later life if they graduate.

I don't see taking down a website as enough reason to ruin the lives of a few kids. He may of well just said "Give me your money and go get yourself raped you little pricks."