General Fallout 4 rant thread (Spoilers aplenty)

[WolfThomas]

There's possibly just one redeeming quality, (depending on how you want to regard it), and that is at the end of the Institute quest line you actually get to LEAD the Institute. So at least you MIGHT have the ability to change the Institute's ways from within (although this isn't reflected in-game, obviously).

It's this sort of thinking that makes me think the BoS isn't too bad an ending. If the Sole-Surivor can become a BoS Sentinel (basically an independent commander) and be charismatic enough to advise Arthur Maxson, he can counter act some of the more toxic idealogy (e.g. Spare Danse) there and perhaps facilitate a union between them and the Minuteman.

I like BoS because despite their beliefs they're actually putting boots on the ground and helping the commonwealth by wiping out mutants.

 

[sXeth]

Minor Rant - Okay, the Irish-American dominance I can sort of get how potentially thats still a thing, but how have the Bobrovs kept their Russian accents intact over 200 years. Its even weirder considering Jun Long doesn't have a noticeable accent, so its not like they just arbitrarily stuck racial/national tics in. There doesn't seem to be enough mass of Russians/Asians to keep their culture intact very well, given that they would've been rare in the Cold War society USA to begin with.


Major Rant -
What is the Institute's end game with synths? The obvious answer is singularity, as they're designing immortal machine-people bodies, and already can transfer memories into them (Nick), if imperfectly (although Amari seems to be able to do that fairly well, so the could recruit her, forcibly if necessary). Its an obvious solution to Father's dying to simply synth-clone him (and uh, more or less they do, though not in that sense), to say nothing of other aging scientists, or even having backup copies for rogue scientists before they went rogue.

However, they make these superhuman immortal sentient robots to..... clean the windows? And are clearly downcast on them as just robots. Have they somehow not heard of Amari's setup? Was Nick's creation a secret later suppressed by the "synths aren't people" regime? Even still, the extremes they go to to make the human synths seems well beyond whats necessary for a servant populace, unless they're just easily creeped out by robo-doll faces.

 

[pookie101]

well i have officially found my favourite gun.. an assault rifle modded with suppressor and the wounding trait. its so powerful nothing can stand against it, hell an automatic 10mm pistol with wounding can take down a behemoth fast let alone this monster

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Major Rant -
What is the Institute's end game with synths? The obvious answer is singularity, as they're designing immortal machine-people bodies, and already can transfer memories into them (Nick), if imperfectly (although Amari seems to be able to do that fairly well, so the could recruit her, forcibly if necessary). Its an obvious solution to Father's dying to simply synth-clone him (and uh, more or less they do, though not in that sense), to say nothing of other aging scientists, or even having backup copies for rogue scientists before they went rogue.

However, they make these superhuman immortal sentient robots to..... clean the windows? And are clearly downcast on them as just robots. Have they somehow not heard of Amari's setup? Was Nick's creation a secret later suppressed by the "synths aren't people" regime? Even still, the extremes they go to to make the human synths seems well beyond whats necessary for a servant populace, unless they're just easily creeped out by robo-doll faces.

This is in line with my major gripe regarding the main plot, that the Institute comes off as half-baked and wish-washy. Father keeps insisting they want to do good and we are supposed to see "the other side" of the Institute that isn't FEV experimentation, abducting and replacing people and playing Kingmaker for the world above by killing anyone who doesn't do what the Institute wants. So why are we never told why the abductions are important? Why are we never given the chance to hear a justification for all the shit that the Institute does? Instead we are treated to the "Shaun is father"-reveal and then the writer seems to expect us to just like the Institute because our son has turned into a semi-benevolent, racists dictator who is always kind and considerate to the PC.

It seriously feels as if two different groups wrote the Institute, one which focused on all its' nasty sides and one which only focused on the good and the two never talked to one another, at all. So the Institute comes of as Schizophrenic, at ones both arguing for non-intervention in the world above and at the same time committing loads of atrocities in their attempts to intervene with the world. And that's not even mentioning the problems with their synth production, which is never properly explained and just turns into a huge plot hole. Why give your machines consciousness if you only want them to be machines? Why make a Gen 3 take care of your garden when an ancient Mr. Handy is just as good (if not better) at it and doesn't have a reactive AI that gives it sapience?

 

[Madkipz]

-Which faction did you side with and why?

I did the Brotherhood. The facts of the matter is that in the world of fallout. You're either brotherhood, or you're a potential threat to the human race. Maxon is just one man in an organisation that has had many leaders, but they all followed the same core principles.

The Brotherhood places more importance on their mission than any other organisation. They want to save mankind from synths, mutants, and ghouls, and this is not because they hate either variant of man, but because to consider them humans is dangerous.
These expressions of life are evolutionary dead ends for mankind. Ghouls and Mutants can't reproduce, and Synths mass produced in greater numbers will inevitably come to view mankind as a threat to their existence that they must end.
This means that neither mutation, synthetic intelligence, or FEV are good for mankind. The only reason I didn't tell Dance to kill himself was because I wanted his character perk, and because I can justify letting the one synth that is my friend continue to help me.

A lot of People I've talked to speak as if the Railroad didn't have the potential to go way off the rails once they've "freed all the synths from the institute." They are a powder keg, and whatever happens in the aftermath of following them will be a mess exploding on everyone else's faces. They're just too weak at that moment of meeting them to show how truly insane they are. The next obvious move from a railroad perspective is going to be enforcing their dogma on everyone, and to force the commonwealth and every citizen in it to accept synths as part of humanity. You think they won't turn gestapo on their fellow man when over half their ranks become comprised of reprogrammed synths? You think they won't take over diamond city and try to make changes not everyone inside of it will agree with? You think they will hesitate with removing people in power that disagree with them?

The only reason we can argue over this is because right now there is no consequence shown for our choices. There isn't a slideshow at the end that tells people how things shake up.


-Favorite companion? Most hated companion?

My favorite is Cait (picks locks for you). She's really easy to placate, always there for me, and she has a wonderful quest.
Most hated Companion: Preston. He's just really annoying and bland.

-Favorite gun?

My favorite gun is a rocket launcher with the lucky perk (same as righteous authority) which doubles the damage on crits. My most used guns are a tossup between Spray and Pray (subgun with explosive damage), Spray and die (assault rifle with explosive damage), and Legendary killer (Laser rifle with wounding)


-How involved were you with the settlement building process? I built so many bases that I ran out of wood.

 

[WolfThomas]

I did the Brotherhood. The facts of the matter is that in the world of fallout. You're either brotherhood, or you're a potential threat to the human race. Maxon is just one man in an organisation that has had many leaders, but they all followed the same core principles.

I agree. I'm digging the BoS hard this game. Unlike some factions they're actually helping the people of the Commonwealth by eradicating radiers and mutants. Nothing like the sound of a vertibird and the stomping of Powerarmor.

The Raildroad have nice ideals but really what is their endgame? If the inistute, their mortal enemy, is destroyed there are no more synths to smuggle and then what?

 

[IceForce]

I did the Brotherhood. The facts of the matter is that in the world of fallout. You're either brotherhood, or you're a potential threat to the human race. Maxon is just one man in an organisation that has had many leaders, but they all followed the same core principles.

I agree. I'm digging the BoS hard this game. Unlike some factions they're actually helping the people of the Commonwealth by eradicating radiers and mutants. Nothing like the sound of a vertibird and the stomping of Powerarmor.

Ehhh, I dunno you guys. I get that they're probably the most 'trustworthy' military force with a presence in the Commonwealth, but they still come across as a bit xenophobic for my tastes.

Especially highlighted with the whole Danse affair, where with a sufficiently high Charisma stat, Maxson gets kinda rattled.
"Danse, you simply should not exist. I'm done debating this." Hardly a compelling argument, I must say.

There's also what Dr Li tells you too, with regards to the aftermath of Fallout 3. After the Enclave was defeated, the BoS decided to retain control over the water purifier, rather than have it owned by the wasteland community (which was actually your Father's original plan, -- Fallout 3 Father, that is. He wanted it to be a gift to the community, NOT have it controlled by a military force).
BoS weren't really needed in the Capital Wasteland anymore, but they decided to continue their military occupation of it anyway, (at least until most of them boarded the Prydwen for the Commonwealth).

 

[ERaptor]

Okay, this is gonna be ranty as all hell, and I had people call me a Monster for actually thinking that way. Feel free to challenge my viewpoint tough, I actually like the discussion that usually arises from it.

I sided with the BoS. At first, it was because Power Armor. Yeah, point at me and laugh, but that was the collest feature in the entire game for me, and the BoS just felt like a natural escalation. I didnt give a rat's behind about the story at first. It's one of those cases where "You have family and you will now care, because we say so."-Stories, so I absolutely did not care about finding my son at all.

Then I got to the point where the Synth-businesses starts creeping in. Okay F4, I'm hooked. Let's see what you're gonna do with the premise. Not a whole lot, as it turns out. But the basic "What's the right thing to do." seemed to work, at least initially. So I looked back at my faction choice, after progressing some more, seeing the BoS-Leader, and actually meeting the other factions.

And now, brace yourselves, I personally feel like the "right" thing to do, that is, the one where you do thebest thing for the surviving humans, is siding with the BoS. Before anyone points it out, yes I know the game tries it's HARDEST to basically portray them as the Third Reich (They have a ZEPPELIN for f*cks sake), but fundamentally, I completely agree that Synth's HAVE to be destroyed.

Where F4 fails, in my opinion, is actually trying to portray the difficulty and actual meaning of this choice. Are you willing to give Synths a chance, even tough there's a very real possiblity of them turning into Murderbots basically out of nowhere? Even tough you have no proof that they actually feel, think, live like humans do? Or are you adamant that it is too dangerous and thus the Institue has to be stopped?

But the game does NONE of that. It just plonks down the BoS as the obvious bad guys, and guilt trips you NON STOP for siding with them. Heck, the game didnt even recognize some of the stuff I did. When I first met the Institute leader, and it turned out he was my son, I gunned the guy down where he stood, after it became appearant that this whole "Let's kidnap people for weird robot experiments"-thing was actually their plan. Part of me was thinking that the Institute may have been taken over by Synths, but hearing the guy give some half-assed "We are totally sending murderrobots to the surface to your BENEFIT"-explanation, there was no question that I would end it right there.

Cue nobody actually caring that I killed the dude. Noone. Not ONE line of dialog. Did they seriously think I was just gonna walk back out there and let Murderrobot-President continue with his cr*p?

To me there was no question that the Synths had to be blown up. And towards the end, I didnt care that the game tried very hard to portray me as the villain. I like F4 as a game, but the story is one of it's weakest parts, in my opinion.

 

[WolfThomas]

Ehhh, I dunno you guys. I get that they're probably the most 'trustworthy' military force with a presence in the Commonwealth, but they still come across as a bit xenophobic for my tastes.

Especially highlighted with the whole Danse affair, where with a sufficiently high Charisma stat, Maxson gets kinda rattled.
"Danse, you simply should not exist. I'm done debating this." Hardly a compelling argument, I must say.

There's also what Dr Li tells you too, with regards to the aftermath of Fallout 3. After the Enclave was defeated, the BoS decided to retain control over the water purifier, rather than have it owned by the wasteland community (which was actually your Father's original plan, -- Fallout 3 Father, that is. He wanted it to be a gift to the community, NOT have it controlled by a military force).
BoS weren't really needed in the Capital Wasteland anymore, but they decided to continue their military occupation of it anyway, (at least until most of them boarded the Prydwen for the Commonwealth).

I can understand the Xenaphobic comment. But lets look at who they are against. East Coast Super-mutants, who except for 3 are universally aggressive and monstrous. Ghouls who in the East ferals seems to outnumber smart ones by tenfold. And Synths. Who they know little about and most of the Commonwealth are paranoid about. And despite all this you can bring Hancock and Nick Valentine onto the Prydwyn and no one orders their execution. They're rational in some regards.

The thing is Maxson is right about Danse. If he was identified by the institute and fed the right codes he could cripple the BoS. And Maxson does let you spare Danse if your Charisma is high. Albeit via exile. After the institue is destroyed though I wish I could bring him back into the fold.

The Capital Wasteland was a ruin with barely any functional society and yet the BoS managed to create an industry and build an airship. We also find via the doctor and Danse they recruit from the populace.

Normally I don't go for a group with such overt fascist tones (I'm usually hardcore NCR "against all tyrants" but I genuinely think they're for the best option for the East Coast. And with my character in a position of leadership (practically second in command) I can steer them in the right direction.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

The Institute seem to want to restore the world to what it was like before the war, but I am reminded of this (from the New Vegas: Old World Blues finale);

− Doctor Mobius: There is an expression in the Wasteland: "Old World Blues."
− Doctor Klein: It refers to those so obsessed with the past they can't see the present, much less the future, for what it is.
− Doctor Dala: They stare into the what-was, eyes like pilot lights, guttering and spent, as the realities of their world continue on around them.
− Doctor O: Science is a long, steady progression into the future. What may seem a sudden event often isn't felt for years, even centuries, to come.

For me, this says the The Old World had it's chance, it's time is past. Trying to restore it won't fix anything. I don't think Institute is meant to be the 'canon' path in this game.

My Fav companion; Curie. Transplanting her mind from her robot "Mr Handy" body in to a blank Synth was one of the best moments in the game for me. Aside from the USS Constitution quest line.

My Fav Weapon: Big Boy with the MIRV mod. I had to put a jetpack on my power armour, and engaged the super jump before firing it. The mini nuke barrage had a habit of coming back at me.

Settlements; All mine have atleast 12 people, 20 food and 20 water. Defense of about 50 or so with Minutemen artillery in all of them, with enough decorations and vendor stalls to keep them at or about 70% happiness.

 

[CeeBod]

Still on my first playthrough as I only bought F4 during the Christmas sale, so I can't answer on the faction choice yet - I'm still at the flirting stage with all of them.

Best companion - I was going to stick with Dogmeat for my first playthrough, but then I met Curie who is utterly adorkable. Best Bethesda companion ever (so far!), although she did start to seriously annoy me whilst I was doing the quests to fix up the USS Constitution. "Za boat. It is on za building. Zat is ze USS Constitution. Mon dieu." was really cute the first time I heard it. The 117th time I heard it, not so much!

Favorite gun - a Legendary dropped a .38 pipe rifle with the Two-shot ability very early on, which came in really handy as I was swimming in unused .38 ammo, whilst running out of many other types, and it was damaging enough to be a good default gun choice. Now I'm level 30-odd I've tricked it out, it's silenced, it fires .45 ammo, and it's still really really useful - I can switch to a .50cal sniper rifle or my 2-shot OP combat shotgun as needed, but this little pipegun is still doing sterling service, taking out most humans with a single sneaky headshot (well technically double not single, but a double-tap with one click is automatically cool!), and still pretty accurate and damaging if I need to hip-shoot a charging foe. I should probly name it some time!

Settlements - nice idea but needs some serious modding! I build each one up just enough to let me send a supply route out - so I can link all of my workbenches to make for shorter trips to dump my stuff. The defend settlement missions are bugged as all hell though. "Setstage WorkshopSynthInfiltrator02 100" - the console command to fix the Synth attack missions not completing when they should is what I've had to use for every single Synth attack so far. The raider ones complete fine, but the Synth ones need console jiggery-pokery or they always fail!

 

[WolfThomas]

Apparently it's quite easy using console command (and hopefully soon mods) to create a perfect ending to the game. The Brotherhood apparently still make you Sentinel if you destroy the Railroad but use Minutemen in the last mission. But if you use the console you can trigger this promotion with appropriate dialogue after finishing with the Minutemen and not destroying the Railroad.

This means with the Minutemen ending, all three non-institute factions can coexist. It also makes sense. If the Minutemen sound the evacuate the Commonwealth is flooded with Synth and escaped scientists, meaning the Railroad has something left to do, settling and protecting them from the Brotherhood. The Brotherhood in turn remain to salvage tech.

 

[IceForce]

This means with the Minutemen ending, all three non-institute factions can coexist.

That happens anyway as I discovered myself, even without the use of console commands. The Minuteman ending is the only ending that keeps everyone happy (except the Institute, obviously). I'm guessing Bethesda means for that to be the 'canon' ending, probably.

But you're right. About half-way through the Minuteman questline, the entire BoS questline fails. However (and this is unique to the Minutemen), this does NOT turn the BoS hostile like it does when working for any of the other factions.

I nailed down exactly what script is being fired. Normally, when you piss off the BoS, a script called "BoSKickOut" fires and auto-fails all their quests and turns them hostile. But when working with the Minutemen instead, a different script fires called "BoSKickOutSoft", which fails their quests but does NOT turn them hostile.

The beauty of "BoSKickOutSoft" is that you can still come and go from the Prydwen as you please. But you're right in that the script fires before you get promoted to Sentinel, effectively locking you out of that title (without the use of console commands, of course).

 

[WolfThomas]

That happens anyway as I discovered myself, even without the use of console commands. The Minuteman ending is the only ending that keeps everyone happy (except the Institute, obviously). I'm guessing Bethesda means for that to be the 'canon' ending, probably.

But you're right. About half-way through the Minuteman questline, the entire BoS questline fails. However (and this is unique to the Minutemen), this does NOT turn the BoS hostile like it does when working for any of the other factions.

I nailed down exactly what script is being fired. Normally, when you piss off the BoS, a script called "BoSKickOut" fires and auto-fails all their quests and turns them hostile. But when working with the Minutemen instead, a different script fires called "BoSKickOutSoft", which fails their quests but does NOT turn them hostile.

The beauty of "BoSKickOutSoft" is that you can still come and go from the Prydwen as you please. But you're right in that the script fires before you get promoted to Sentinel, effectively locking you out of that title (without the use of console commands, of course).

Thanks. Yes it is possible to finish with them and the Railroad not your enemy. But I want to be Sentinel as well, for the gear, prestige and my head-canon. Apparently by triggering the right quest stage of a quest line you can get Maxson to congratulate you for destroying the Institute, mildly reprimand you for using the Minutemen and still award you the Sentinel position. As in it seemlessly fits.

 

[IceForce]

Speaking of coming and going from the Prydwen... Have any of you tried using the Vertibird signal grenades to travel to the Prydwen?
Now, normally the Vertibird just drops you off somewhere vaguely around your selected fast travel target. So naturally, I assumed the same thing would happen with the Prydwen. I assumed it wouldn't be able to drop me off on the Prydwen flight deck, so it'd just drop me somewhere random on the ground below instead.

Well, my mind was fucking blown.

 

[IceForce]

Apparently by triggering the right quest stage of a quest line you can get Maxson to congratulate you for destroying the Institute, mildly reprimand you for using the Minutemen and still award you the Sentinel position. As in it seemlessly fits.

Huh, that's interesting. The fact that he has unique dialogue for that scenario implies that Bethesda originally intended on having that as a possible playable option.

I'll have to look further into this.

 

[WolfThomas]

Huh, that's interesting. The fact that he has unique dialogue for that scenario implies that Bethesda originally intended on having that as a possible playable option.

I'll have to look further into this.

I think as I said earlier the dialogue is to cover a situation where you join the BoS start their final missions (by killing the Railroad) but then complete the Minutemen ending (which is never unavailable). In that situation you still get to be Setinel, but the dialogue perfectly applies to an ending where you back the Minutemen and don't piss of the BoS.

But I haven't done it, just read about some people doing it on the internet.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/377160/discussions/0/494631967663403869/

There's pictures in that thread.

 

[IceForce]

.

Ookay, so, this seems to be how it works: (for the benefit of anyone reading this)

- Complete the BoS questline up until 'Tactical Thinking' begins (the quest is instantly recognizable as soon as it pings because its icon features a power armored vault boy stomping on a Railroad lantern).
You're told to talk to Kells. DON'T do this (because it turns the Railroad hostile, and without warning, oddly).
As an aside, the Danse situation is resolved before 'Tactical Thinking', so you don't need to worry about him.

- If you're not already hostile towards the Institute, do something to make them hostile. Kill Father, or any of the department heads (that asshole Ayo is a good target for this). Other options are to tell Father to fuck off on first meeting him, or telling him to fuck off after the Battle of Bunker Hill. Going to Mass Fusion for the BoS will also make you hostile towards the Institute, but this is only possible AFTER 'Tactical Thinking', which we don't want to complete.
This step is necessary because you have to be hostile towards the Institute in order to progress with the Minutemen. (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Banished_from_the_Institute#Notes).

- If you've still got 'Underground Undercover' in your quest journal (for the Railroad), go talk to Desdemona. If not, you can skip this step.
She'll tell you to talk to Preston.

- Talk to Preston and do the Minutemen questline all the way to the end. At some point during this questline, the BoS questline will fail. (Specifically: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Defend_the_Castle#Notes). However not to worry, as I pointed out in a post above, this is a 'soft' questline fail, not a 'hostile' questline fail.

- Don't forget to issue the evacuation order on Father's terminal. Preston actually explicitly tells you to do this, and will give an objective in your journal about it.

- After the Institute goes boom, type the following into the command console:
setstage bos305 10
And you'll be directed to speak with Maxson, who'll congratulate you and give you your new rank of Sentinel.


Aaaand that's pretty much it.
Sheesh, and I thought the main faction questlines in FONV was a delicate juggling act. Still, in FO4 it seems a lot more complicated than it actually is.

 

[WolfThomas]

.

Cheers, thanks for exploring this. I'm on console so I'm going to have to wait until their promised Consoles mods enables this.

 

[IceForce]

There's actually a better way of doing the above, though. I mean, if you're going to use console commands anyway...

Step 1 is the same:

- Complete the BoS questline up until 'Tactical Thinking' begins (the quest is instantly recognizable as soon as it pings because its icon features a power armored vault boy stomping on a Railroad lantern).
You're told to talk to Kells. DON'T do this (because it turns the Railroad hostile, and without warning, oddly).

Instead of speaking with Kells, type this into the console:
setstage bos302b 255

What this does is it effectively skips the 'Tactical Thinking' quest altogether, and proceeds with the next quest (BoS's Mass Fusion quest). So the Railroad remains friendly.

Once the BoS's Mass Fusion quest begins, the Institute goes hostile automatically. But that's okay. Simply complete the game for the BoS in the normal way, and get your rank of Sentinel.

You end up staying on good terms with the Railroad, BoS, and Minutemen.

The beauty of doing it this way is that Liberty Prime is made active (instead of forever remaining on life support for the entire rest of the game, like if you do things the Minutemen way like in the post above). You also get to go to Mass Fusion, rather than missing out on it altogether.


Anyway, source for all this:

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Tactical_Thinking#Notes

Alternatively, while the quest is active, one can use the command "setstage 00107a1c 255" to advance the quest to completion, without locking Kell's dialogue options into referencing this quest for the remainder of the game. His dialogue should return to normal, allowing the player to receive Leading by Example missions from him once more, without the need to become enemies with the Railroad. This method also has the seemingly added benefit of repairing Desdemona's end-game dialogue, even allowing the player to partake in To the Mattresses missions.