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Specter Von Baren

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There's like one single reason to want to try these, and like over a thousand other reasons not to.




Those... those are removable and washable, right? Because I don't want to know what they'd look/smell/feel like after months of hand sweat, Cheeto dust, spilled soda, etc.
 

RhombusHatesYou

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I didn't say for them to be shunned. They're supposed to stay on the alert, but a majority of them will not do that.
But but but... it takes effort to be a responsible, informed consumer when you're constantly bombarded with hype and shiny things. So much easier to complain about shit culture but still reward the perpetrators.
 
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CriticalGaming

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So much easier to complain about shit culture but still reward the perpetrators.
I feel like this is a misrepresentative statement.

Yes buying a blizzard game technically helps pay the salery and terrible bonuses of the higher ups and people responsible for the bad practices. But it also supports the little guys, the devs that are just trying to come to work for whatever company and keep their job going.

You can justify not purchasing anything from a given company because you don't like what they've done and that's completely your right, but who are you hurting more? The billionaire who won't notice the missing sale? Or the dev who gets laid off because nobody bought the game they worked on?

To be honest i don't think there is any real right answer? Either way there are cuts being made for whatever choice you make when making any sort of purchase. It's up to the individual i feel. Like for me I wont buy Blizzard anything anymore but honestly that's because they also aren't making anything good anymore. I'd have a lot harder time denying myself an awesome new game from Blizzard at their peak, even after the allegations because most of the people behind that shit get fired anyway and if the personel changed completely then boycotting is only boycotting the name.

If anything social outcry and bad press helps more than anything these days. Sometimes the outrage mob is extremely helpful like the battlefront 2 lootbox fiasco. People caused enough of an uproar that it got lawmakers interested and Disney looking at EA negatively that EA was forced to pull back. That's the shit that seems to help more than anything. Hell even recently with Gran Turismo and the fucking microtransaction bullshit they are trying to pull has people meta bombing that game, i just hope the outcry will work and they'll turn that game around because fudamentally it's a great game.
 
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FakeSympathy

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In other news, GT7 now has lower score than BF2042.

From I understand, there's nothing wrong with the game on the fundamental level, but the MTX and DRM has made the game just so bad.
 
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Old_Hunter_77

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Oh wait, wait, I haven't weighed in on Witcher 4....
Um... no thanks?

W3 is my favorite game of all time. I think one of the reasons is that it was so final. It's a capstone of a series, a story. It being the last one is part of why I love it.

I do sort of look forward to the rubbernecking fun of news about Witcher: Andromeda. It'll be fun and annoying.
 

RhombusHatesYou

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Oh wait, wait, I haven't weighed in on Witcher 4....
Um... no thanks?

W3 is my favorite game of all time. I think one of the reasons is that it was so final. It's a capstone of a series, a story. It being the last one is part of why I love it.

I do sort of look forward to the rubbernecking fun of news about Witcher: Andromeda. It'll be fun and annoying.
Yeah, pulling it off is gonna be a tough needle to thread.
 
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CriticalGaming

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Last I heard, the devs get laid off regardless of sales numbers.

Line goes down? Lay off devs till line stabilizes.
Line goes up? Lay off devs so line goes up more.
Yeah that's fair, so what's the solution? I suppose you could buy used games so that the publisher gets nothing. You get the game and you support nothing. If you try to reason out an ethical way to go about things, the only person who loses anything is you the consumer. You don't get a game, and the shitty practices still happen. The dev still gets fired, the CEO still gets his bonus, and you dont get a game either way.

Or you stick to indie games where a lot of the people are just as shitty but they work alone so they can't hurt anyone but themselves and maybe their dog.
 

BrawlMan

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the only person who loses anything is you the consumer.
Says who? Some jack ass video game executive? Some know nothing know it all douche employee at Game Stop? You only lose, if you constantly follow the hype train and get tricked again. You only lose, if you trade in your standards for constant mediocrity and make constant excuses for them. You win by striving and being the best you can be. You can make mistakes, but don't make exact same mistakes over and over with nothing to learn or show. Otherwise, you're back where you started and never left.

You don't get a game, and the shitty practices still happen. The dev still gets fired, the CEO still gets his bonus, and you dont get a game either way.
If the game was already shit to begin with, or rushed, then it's not a lost if I or a person with buying sense did not purchase the crappy game. My heart still goes out for the devs that are abused though. I only wish for them find some work space that is better, and does not have to be involved with the gaming sphere in any fashion or capacity.

Or you stick to indie games where a lot of the people are just as shitty but they work alone so they can't hurt anyone but themselves and maybe their dog.
Not everyone in the indie circle is shitty and you know it. Nowhere near the extent that is the AAA space. The indie section ain't perfect either, and has its monsters, but more people actually care and treat each other with respect there than the "PROFESSIONAL AAA SPACE". Especially when games like Hades, and many other indies and AA proved, you don't need crunch, when 4 day work weeks are more than enough to any game out. Give your programmers and other employees time to rest and see their fucking friends and family.

I noticed that whenever these situations comes up, you make these fatalistic/nihilistic arguments that are nothing more than glorified "nothing you do matters". It's pathetic, sad, stupid, and nothing more than defeatism mixed with (self)-gaslighting and brainwashing from corporate overlords. It shows you are so ready to give up for the shallowest thing or reasoning, or making excuses on why "you" others like you "have to make the hard choice" of purchasing a product from a shitty company. It is not that hard of a choice. Either buy the game or don't. You are stronger than that, even if you don't believe so or of other people.

There is more than plenty out there. People just have to put in extra effort to find them. Nowadays though, most people got it easier now compared to the pre-XBLA/early Steam days. There are over a million options at this point in game selection. Not my fault certain people are too stupid or lazy to look. I know that is not always the case, but there are many when it is.
 
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Meximagician

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Yeah that's fair, so what's the solution?
Well, since the problem is systemic, the solutions must be as well.
Ultimately the game industry must be pressured to do better; if not by fans, then employees, unions, and/or regulation.

Either way, treating a entertainment industry like a human happiness/suffering zero-sum game probably isn't helping.
 

RhombusHatesYou

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You only lose, if you constantly follow the hype train and get tricked again. You only lose, if you trade in your standards for constant mediocrity and make constant excuses for them. You win by striving and being the best you can be.
I've probably missed out on several excellent games over the years because of various stances I've taken and I don't see that as a 'loss', it's simply the trade off for not being complicit in behaviours I object to. Plenty of other games out there.


You can make mistakes, but don't make exact same mistakes over and over with nothing to learn or show.
Make new and interesting mistakes.
 
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BrawlMan

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Sounds like someone doesn't want to take responsibility for their actions.

 

CriticalGaming

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then employees, unions, and/or regulation
Then how come they don't do it.

Ok let me pose this question. Why is it the customer's responsibility that employees are treated fairly? Why should the customer try to be in control of something they obviously can't really control?

We all know that Apple uses shitty chinese labor to make their overpriced devices, yet how many people are using iphones? How is production the customer's responibility?

Sure you can hold the company to a morality that suits you. But a company is not a person it's a collective and while the people on the tip top might be scum, there are countless people in that same company who are not. A few Ubisoft execs might be shitheads, but the vast majority of the devs behind Far Cry or AC games have nothing to do with that shit.

It would be like someone dismissing you because your cousin did a crime. You had nothing to do with it but because someone who shares your family name did a bad thing, people then mistreat you based on reputation of your cousin alone. Hundreds of people work on a game, and if a couple people are scumbags how is that your problem or concern?

I agree @Meximagician it should be the employees standing up for themselves, banding together, encouraging regulation, whatever they need to do. Becuase ultimately it's the employees that ALLOW the abuse to continue, not the customer who buys the games 6 months after anything happens in studio.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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Then how come they don't do it.

Ok let me pose this question. Why is it the customer's responsibility that employees are treated fairly? Why should the customer try to be in control of something they obviously can't really control?

We all know that Apple uses shitty chinese labor to make their overpriced devices, yet how many people are using iphones? How is production the customer's responibility?

Sure you can hold the company to a morality that suits you. But a company is not a person it's a collective and while the people on the tip top might be scum, there are countless people in that same company who are not. A few Ubisoft execs might be shitheads, but the vast majority of the devs behind Far Cry or AC games have nothing to do with that shit.

It would be like someone dismissing you because your cousin did a crime. You had nothing to do with it but because someone who shares your family name did a bad thing, people then mistreat you based on reputation of your cousin alone. Hundreds of people work on a game, and if a couple people are scumbags how is that your problem or concern?

I agree @Meximagician it should be the employees standing up for themselves, banding together, encouraging regulation, whatever they need to do. Becuase ultimately it's the employees that ALLOW the abuse to continue, not the customer who buys the games 6 months after anything happens in studio.
If customers keep funneling money into the money pit, replacing devs who "don't fit the culture" is easier. If abusive executives pull in fat stacks of cash from apathetic consumers, who gives a shit if devs are quitting in droves? They were gonna fire them anyway

If you want to help a union succeed, don't cross a picket line. Yes, even as a customer. Labor 102
 
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