General Movies, Music, Web Show, and TV News Thread

BrawlMan

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Of course it isn't a big deal. Very little in this thread, on this site, is a big deal. The highest grossing animated films of all time aren't a big deal, it's just surprising (for better or worse) to see the entries, Mario included.
It's a good movie. The fans happy, I'm happy, and Nintendo's happy. Nearly everyone is happy. Not the a majority of film critics, but most don't know how to criticize shit. I "get" the big deal, but I don't see as an all negative or bad thing. As for the rest on that list, I only care Toy Story 3, 4, and Zootopia. Minions I found okay, Frozen is average, Frozen II sucks, Incredibles 2 is wasted potential, didn't care for Finding Dory, and Despicable Me 3 I've never seen.
 

Hawki

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It's a good movie. The fans happy, I'm happy, and Nintendo's happy. Nearly everyone is happy. Not the a majority of film critics, but most don't know how to criticize shit.
Ah yes, the old "critic are out of touch" (except when they're not - I assume you agree with the critic ratings for Toy Story 3/4/Zootopia for instance).

Anyway, I covered this back on the movie thread, but it's easy to see why the Mario movie got such a mixed reception, since it's a movie that's coasting on the IP. Was it "good?" In a purely subjective sense, yeah, I'd say so. In a more objective sense? Eh...There's a reason I ended up ranking it 5-7/10, because while I can see why so many people familiar with Mario like it (myself included), I can also see why it's got such a mixed reception from people who aren't familiar and/or have to treat it as its own thing.
 

BrawlMan

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Ah yes, the old "critic are out of touch"
Not all of them are out of touch, but a good amount of them were putting in unrealistic expectations or forcing the movie to be something it is not.

I assume you agree with the critic ratings for Toy Story 3/4/Zootopia for instance
Once in a while we line up, but like I said before, a majority of them you can't count on for shit. I know there was some mixed reception for Toy Story 4 on critics and audience sides, but I didn't give a shit. I consider Toy Story 4 good. I know it's hard top TS3's ending, but I see TS4 more as an 90 minute epilogue and finishing some unanswered questions.

I can also see why it's got such a mixed reception from people who aren't familiar and/or have to treat it as its own thing.
And that is why it's important to do your damn research. I don't expect every critic to familiar with everything Mario, but you gotta know at least some of the bare basics. If my mom barely knows the boiler plate plot and lore of Super Mario, and can still love it, then what's their excuse? You're film critics; it's part of your fucking job! So don't start crying and be mad, because you intentionally locked yourself out of the loop. Some of them have their points, but most other either exaggerate the film's problems, or some just start making shit up and clearly weren't paying attention.

As far as the movie goes, it's an A at best, B+ at worst. Though from me personally, I give it an S-Rank.
 
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Hawki

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And that is why it's important to do your damn research. I don't expect every critic to familiar with everything Mario, but you gotta know at least some of the bare basics. If my mom barely knows the boiler plate plot and lore of Super Mario, and can still love it, then what's there excuse? You're film critics; it's part of your fucking job! So don't start crying and be mad, because you intentionally locked yourself out of the loop. Some of them have their points, but most other either exaggerate the film's problems, or some just start making shit up and clearly weren't paying attention.
Okay, no. Just no. That's not how films work. If your film is an adaptation of a work, I shouldn't have to be familiar with the original work to enjoy the film. I shouldn't have to read Lord of the Rings or Dune to understand the film adaptations. I shouldn't have to read the Ms. Marvel comics to understand the TV show. I shouldn't have to read Les Miserables to understand the stage play, or read the Bible to enjoy Technicolour Dream Coat. And even that aside, there's plenty of films that are solid works that are unfaithful adaptations - are Starship Troopers, How to Train Your Dragon, and Jurassic Park good/great? Yes. Are they faithful adaptations? Hell no.

But even then, even as someone who liked the film, familiarity isn't the issue here. The characters are thinly developed, the world is poorly explained, and most egregious of all (IMO) is that it never really slows down. Even when there should be time to let the film breathe (e.g. DK and Mario inside the fish, bonding over their shared parental angst), the film barely gives us any time to let things sink in. Compare that to something like, say, Toy Story, with Woody and Buzz on the windowsill in the rain. It's one of the most important moments in the film for the character development it provides, and it takes its time in doing so, even in a kid's movie.
 

BrawlMan

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Okay, no. Just no. That's not how films work. If your film is an adaptation of a work, I shouldn't have to be familiar with the original work to enjoy the film. I shouldn't have to read Lord of the Rings or Dune to understand the film adaptations. I shouldn't have to read the Ms. Marvel comics to understand the TV show. I shouldn't have to read Les Miserables to understand the stage play, or read the Bible to enjoy Technicolour Dream Coat. And even that aside, there's plenty of films that are solid works that are unfaithful adaptations - are Starship Troopers, How to Train Your Dragon, and Jurassic Park good/great? Yes. Are they faithful adaptations? Hell no.
I didn't say research everything, just the bare basics. The very bare minimum. I'm not proclaiming every critic needs to do this, but has to be some self awareness. If you don't know what you're getting into, than look up a clip or two. Maybe a small article. Not an 100,000,000 word encyclopedia knowing every Mario character, story, and lore dump across 30 years. Bowser captures Peach; Mario and Luigi has to rescue her and Peach's kingdom. That's the simplest of gist that is easy to digest and understand. Besides, while Mario is faithful, it changes a few things for the better and still does it's own thing to stand out and be fun. It's called being familiar, but creative.

. The characters are thinly developed, the world is poorly explained, and most egregious of all (IMO) is that it never really slows down.
Speak for yourself. There are a few slow and wind down moments. Where this argument comes from is that so many people are too used to movies that are 2 hours+ long, (when most nowadays don't need to be this long) because it has become the standard. Back then, it was the exception or the rare occasion. I appreciate the short run time. While speedy in some areas, but not many, it does not suffer from bloating or unnecessary padding with characters I don't give a shit about (Sonic 2 with the fucking wedding! So we're all clear, I do love Sonic 2.). Many modern movies suffer from overly long runtime.

BTW, SMBM remembered to use music from the actual games and not full of "modern" (songs from the early to mid 2010s) pop music. Looking at you again, Sonic 2.

Compare that to something like, say, Toy Story, with Woody and Buzz on the windowsill in the rain. It's one of the most important moments in the film for the character development it provides, and it takes its time in doing so, even in a kid's movie.
SMBM ain't trying to be Pixar. It doesn't make the the film immune to criticism, but I am not going to fault it for not having a moment like Toy Story. That's dumb and it's same shitty argument critics have been using dock points for not being the thing they like or are used to seeing. They want to fit everything into their comfy little box that only appeals to them. The slow moments we do get, don't feel rushed and naturally flow in as far as I'm concerned. Video is time stamped to the point. I have some of my own disagreements with this guy, but he is totally on point. The movie set out what it achieved to do, without treating their audiences like thundering dumbasses


The movie is great, it's problems are highly exaggerated or false, and only has a few issues. Illumination can and will learn from their mistakes to make an even greater movie. Mario Bros is here to stay, and I can wait to see what other Big N properties get adapted. I know Nintendo is not going to have Illumination do all of their franchises, which is the best bet.
 

Hawki

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I didn't say research everything, just the bare basics. The very bare minimum. I'm not proclaiming every critic needs to do this, but has to be some self awareness. If you don't know what you're getting into, than look up a clip or two. Maybe a small article. Not an 100,000,000 word encyclopedia knowing every Mario character, story, and lore dump across 30 years. Bowser captures Peach; Mario and Luigi has to rescue her and Peach's kingdom. That's the simplest of gist that is easy to digest and understand. Besides, while Mario is faithful, it changes a few things for the better and still does it's own thing to stand out and be fun. It's called being familiar, but creative.
You shouldn't have to research anything, certainly not for a work of fiction. Ideally, you'd want to be as unfamiliar with a work as possible going in, in order to be as unbiased as possible. That isn't practical of course, but in the realm of practicalities, I have no doubt that you, everyone, has seen a film at some point where they had no prior knowledge about the film and/or its source material going in. Sticking to animation, I'd be willing to bet that people who saw Disney films were introduced to the stories via those films before reading the actual fairytales they're based on, and even if they weren't, saying "you have to be familiar with Arabian Nights to understand Aladdin" or "you should read Hamlet before watching The Lion King" aren't statements that many people would (or should) take seriously.

But even then, familiarity with the original work doesn't necessarily mean that the adaptive work is better received, when in fact, it can be received worse. We can probably both agree that the Anderson RE films aren't that good, and we'd probably both agree that knowing the original RE lore makes one less reciprocal to them. Or another more recent example, MK 2021. As a film, it's tepid, as someone familiar with MK, it arguably makes it worse, since I have to put up with the Cole Young nonsense.

SMBM ain't trying to be Pixar. It doesn't make the the film immune to criticism, but I am not going to fault it for not having a moment like Toy Story. That's dumb and it's same shitty argument critics have been using dock points for not being the thing they like or are used to seeing.
Except surely you'd agree that Toy Story is a better film, right? And that the reasons for it are, among other things, better plot, themes, and characters?

They want to fit everything into their comfy little box that only appeals to them. The slow moments we do get, don't feel rushed and naturally flow in as far as I'm concerned. Video is time stamped to the point. I have some of my own disagreements with this guy, but he is totally on point. The movie set out what it achieved to do, without treating their audiences like thundering dumbasses


Yeah, I don't really agree with a lot of his arguments

-Top Gun: Maverick does have a simple story, but more importantly, both critics and audiences loved the film. So apparently the critics weren't out of touch that one time?

-Heh, he agrees about the thin plot and lack of emotional gravitas.

-I don't agree that visual fidelity is a sufficient virtue in of itself to elevate a film. Was it nice seeing the Mushroom Kingdom et al? Absolutely. However, from an objective standpoint, saying the film is like the visuals of the original doesn't say that much. Again, HotD (the films) use a very different art style to the books, that doesn't inherently lessen them. Visual fidelity is nice, it can't make up for other shortcomings by itself.

-Also, that it's 90 minutes long and 2 minutes are wasted on Bowser singing Peaches...gah! Sorry, I know lots of people love the Peaches song for whatever reason, but I can't stand it. As a song, it's barely even worthy of the name, it's Bowser singing the same word over and over. From a story standpoint, it doesn't tell us anything we don't already know about Bowser or progress the plot. Ideally, in a musical, you want it to serve the story, not have the story stand still for the music.

-I agree that the Mario games aren't narrative-driven, but it's easier to get away with narrative-free games than narrative-free movies. If you're presenting an adaptation of a game as a movie, then it's going to be judged as a movie. Saying something like "Battleship has a thin plot" and responding with "but the game is bereft of plot" isn't really a defence of the film, and my personal thoughts aside, the Lego Movie had a more intricate plot than the Mario one, despite having even less core narrative in the source material to work with (incidentally, I like Mario more than the Lego Movie, but the Lego Movie does have the better plot and character development).

-By extension, there's plenty of successful films bereft of traditional narratives that are critical darlings - Fantasia, 2001: A Space Odyssey, etc. There's not much evidence to suggest that critics are only interested in narrative to the exclusion of everything else. Thing is, as pretty as the visuals in Mario are (I think most people would agree with that, regardless of their familiarity with the source material), the film's still telling a story, albeit a simple one with simple characters. In a film like that, saying "it looks pretty" doesn't solve the issue at hand.

Illumination can and will learn from their mistakes to make an even greater movie.
Eh, maybe? I dunno, Illumination seems content to make "good" (at best) movies, never "great" ones. Best of theirs I've seen is Sing, and while a "good" movie, it's still a bog standard one.

I know Nintendo is not going to have Illumination do all of their franchises, which is the best bet.
That, I agree with.
 

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You shouldn't have to research anything, certainly not for a work of fiction. Ideally, you'd want to be as unfamiliar with a work as possible going in, in order to be as unbiased as possible. That isn't practical of course, but in the realm of practicalities, I have no doubt that you, everyone, has seen a film at some point where they had no prior knowledge about the film and/or its source material going in. Sticking to animation, I'd be willing to bet that people who saw Disney films were introduced to the stories via those films before reading the actual fairytales they're based on, and even if they weren't, saying "you have to be familiar with Arabian Nights to understand Aladdin" or "you should read Hamlet before watching The Lion King" aren't statements that many people would (or should) take seriously.
We're stuck in a loop. I already said you don't have to look over everything. A 5 second search on Google won't kill you when comes to the synopsis of Mario. And I like I said before, Illumination still does unique things and actions with the story and characters. Different, but familiar. No more, no less. It's mostly on the critics this time.

But even then, familiarity with the original work doesn't necessarily mean that the adaptive work is better received, when in fact, it can be received worse.
Depends on how bad someone fucks it up, is too in love with the material, or shallowly throws in desperate references to appear good and "with it" (live action RE films).

. Or another more recent example, MK 2021. As a film, it's tepid, as someone familiar with MK, it arguably makes it worse, since I have to put up with the Cole Young nonsense.
No one was asking for him, and MK 1995 is still king. Get rid of that piece of shit fan fic character. Fuck the execs; they made this dumb ass decision to have a "relatable family man".

Except surely you'd agree that Toy Story is a better film, right? And that the reasons for it are, among other things, better plot, themes, and characters?
Putting words in my mouth. Listen good, I know Toy Story is the better movie, but Mario Bros is still a great movie. I don't fucking care that Toy Story is better. Both set out to achieve what they did, and both highly succeeded in their purpose for generations to come. I don't regret seeing either film in theaters during opening week. Both took names and kicked ass!

-Heh, he agrees about the thin plot and lack of emotional gravitas.
That's where I disagree. The plot is simple, not thin. There is definite emotional gravitas. Y'all must have been watching a different movie or not paying much attention. It doesn't have all of the emotional moments in the world, but the moments that are there have impact or make a person feel something. I did feel something more than once.

Eh, maybe? I dunno, Illumination seems content to make "good" (at best) movies, never "great" ones. Best of theirs I've seen is Sing, and while a "good" movie, it's still a bog standard one.
I give credit where credit is due. Keep in mind, I'm not a hardcore fan of Illumination, but they get way too much hate on the Internet. They've made good films, with plenty of average ones in-between. Sing I find boring and not interesting. I still say Despicable Me is their best one with Mario Bros. not far behind.

-Also, that it's 90 minutes long and 2 minutes are wasted on Bowser singing Peaches...gah! Sorry, I know lots of people love the Peaches song for whatever reason, but I can't stand it. As a song, it's barely even worthy of the name, it's Bowser singing the same word over and over. From a story standpoint, it doesn't tell us anything we don't already know about Bowser or progress the plot. Ideally, in a musical, you want it to serve the story, not have the story stand still for the music.
Too bad; song is awesome and an unexpected surprise. Jack Black is a talented guy! It does tell us something about Bowser. He sees Peach more as an object and something to have as an achievement. Not that it wasn't established, but it's adds some gravy to the mash potatoes. Also, an important lesson to watch out for obsessive stalkers and "entitled to have you!" pricks and bitches. A lesson kids should learn early.

the Lego Movie had a more intricate plot than the Mario one, despite having even less core narrative in the source material to work with (incidentally, I like Mario more than the Lego Movie, but the Lego Movie does have the better plot and character development).
True, but I don't give a shit. Lego went more complex by building off of nothing, and achieved what it set out to do. Mario Bros kept things simple (not thin), and achieved what it set out to do. It's a win for (nearly) everybody.
There's not much evidence to suggest that critics are only interested in narrative to the exclusion of everything else.
Speak for yourself. There is a reason why I tune most of them out, nor give the the time of day. The only film critics I trust are Double Toasted, James Rolfe, and the YoVideoGames Crew. I don't agree with them all the time either (especially some of the YVG crew), but I can tell why they like/dislike something, or they know how to break their opinions and reason down bit by bit.
 

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Hey um, WB. I dont wanna tell you how to do your business, but maybe.. now isn't...you know...the best time to have a scene in the new flash trailer with ezra miller oogling preteens.
 
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meiam

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Hey um, WB. I dont wanna tell you how to do your business, but maybe.. now isn't...you know...the best time to have a scene in the new flash trailer with ezra miller oogling preteens.
Isn't there like a negative flash or w/e in the comic that's like evil flash and keep trying to ruin the reputation of good flash, maybe he's just very committed to the role.
 

Piscian

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Haven't watch it yet, but apparently lower decks is canon now.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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IT is here

Delicious in Dungeon by Studio Trigger will broadcast January 2024.
Laios Touden: Kumagai Kentaro
Marcille Donato: Senbongi Sayak
Chilchuck Tims: Tomari Asun
Senshi: Naka Hiroshi

Not much to go on. Need to hear Marcille when she's not yelling. Need to hear Laios being weird. Chilchick and Senshi sound fine. All the animation is relatively early story stuff, which is encouraging. Desperately hope they don't sprint thought the story to get to That Scene in 13 episodes.
Designs were obviously simplified for animation, but they did a good job
 
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BrawlMan

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Star Wars: Andor - Season 1 (3/5)

I'll be honest, I don't get the hype for this show.

I'm assuming everyone's already familiar with it, but basically, yeah. It's...fine, I guess? Sort of? Maybe? Certainly doesn't feel like Star Wars, what with its grunge (though Star Wars has been like that for awhile), or lack of aliens, or tone, or, well, anything, really. Not that not being like something is inherently bad, but the show hasn't given me anything to talk about, or at least, nothing that's really worth talking about.
 

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