Genres that should be linear.

[Altorin]

I'm of the opinion if you can't in some way affect even the surface of the story, it's not a roleplaying game, it's a graphic novel. But I unconditionally hate JRPGs and masturbate over my wonderful d10 and d20, so take what I say however you will.

that's cool, just try not act superior when it comes to people who consider JRPGs RPGs, you can think it all you want, but try not to cause drama

 

[Graustein]

I'm of the opinion if you can't in some way affect even the surface of the story, it's not a roleplaying game, it's a graphic novel. But I unconditionally hate JRPGs and masturbate over my wonderful d10 and d20, so take what I say however you will.

That doesn't mean they're not RPGs in the current usage of the term, and I shall defy any who try to tell me that Mother 3 isn't a fantastic RPG.
All those ones that emphasise "taking on the role" - Neverwinter Nights, Baldur's Gate et al, I dislike those because of how limited you really are. For me, it's all or nothing in terms of how much control players have, and any middle ground just infuriates me. I love D&D, I love games you dismiss as "graphic novels", but any computer game that attempts to imitate D&D has, for me, failed to deliver.

But I'll concede to your semantics and retcon what I said to JRPG, because in retrospect my favourite "RPGs" - The Mother series, Golden Sun, the early Final Fantasy games - are in fact of the distinct J variety.

 

[hellthins]

I'm of the opinion if you can't in some way affect even the surface of the story, it's not a roleplaying game, it's a graphic novel. But I unconditionally hate JRPGs and masturbate over my wonderful d10 and d20, so take what I say however you will.

That doesn't mean they're not RPGs in the current usage of the term, and I shall defy any who try to tell me that Mother 3 isn't a fantastic RPG.
All those ones that emphasise "taking on the role" - Neverwinter Nights, Baldur's Gate et al, I dislike those because of how limited you really are. For me, it's all or nothing in terms of how much control players have, and any middle ground just infuriates me. I love D&D, I love games you dismiss as "graphic novels", but any computer game that attempts to imitate D&D has, for me, failed to deliver.

But I'll concede to your semantics and retcon what I said to JRPG, because in retrospect my favourite "RPGs" - The Mother series, Golden Sun, the early Final Fantasy games - are in fact of the distinct J variety.

Bah humbug, I hate current usage. But I come from the land of bags of holdings and ventrue antitribu working with the camarilla to assist the technocracy while playing as a hero so lucky he makes other people lucky.

Also, what is a drama? A miserable little pile of trollan.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

Games should be linear if it makes the game better. Otherwise, games should have some variety. Besides, there are degrees of linearity. Onimusha 2 is a completely linear game, but the items and character paths lend it a lot of replay value you wouldn't think this kind of game could have.

Also, New Game+ is NEVER a bad thing. EVER. More game devs need to understand this. I mean, there's always the option to not use it, and it adds replay value. It's like having a Level Select in a game that has levels/missions.

 

[Graustein]

Bah humbug, I hate current usage. But I come from the land of bags of holdings and ventrue antitribu working with the camarilla to assist the technocracy while playing as a hero so lucky he makes other people lucky.

Also, what is a drama? A miserable little pile of trollan.

I've spent a few summers in that land as well, am in fact DMing my first game (first game as a DM of course, not as a player) for a group of never-before-playeds, but I'm of the opinion that making a computer game out of it just don't work, and can't compare. That's why I greatly prefer JRPGs to Western RPGs, because they don't pretend to be something they're not.

Also, New Game+ is NEVER a bad thing. EVER. More game devs need to understand this. I mean, there's always the option to not use it, and it adds replay value. It's like having a Level Select in a game that has levels/missions.

Some would argue that it's just the same thing, made harder (assuming you're talking about an unlockable "hard mode" instead of completely new dungeon layouts or whathaveyou) and stinks of lack of creativity. Not I, however! I gladly replayed Metroid Prime in its hard mode, for the joys of reliving the game while still being challenged, this time by the combat rather than the puzzles.
Unless you are talking about the latter. In which case, I agree even more heartily!

 

[Blixt]

Platformers should be linear, think if the original Mario was a sandbox?

 

[hellthins]

I've spent a few summers in that land as well, am in fact DMing my first game (first game as a DM of course, not as a player) for a group of never-before-playeds, but I'm of the opinion that making a computer game out of it just don't work, and can't compare. That's why I greatly prefer JRPGs to Western RPGs, because they don't pretend to be something they're not.

Eh, to each their own. I guess it's just semantics. And a quick tip, don't plan anything out in great detail. I did that my first time DMing, terrible. Players ran a van into a manor I didn't intend them to go into. Skeleton plots, skeleton plots, skeleton plots. Developers, etc. etc.

Platformers should be linear, think if the original Mario was a sandbox?

Sonic was quasi-nonlinear and it was incredible. Made it rather enjoyable to have multiple paths towards the end.

 

[Altorin]

Platformers should be linear, think if the original Mario was a sandbox?

we're long past the point where level 1-1 would work.

heck, Mario 3 is non-linear. Don't want to do that level? screw it, you don't need to.

 

[Blixt]

But the point I am trying to make is that a game doesn't need to be non linear to be sexy. Mario is immortal, and non linear

 

[Graustein]

I've spent a few summers in that land as well, am in fact DMing my first game (first game as a DM of course, not as a player) for a group of never-before-playeds, but I'm of the opinion that making a computer game out of it just don't work, and can't compare. That's why I greatly prefer JRPGs to Western RPGs, because they don't pretend to be something they're not.

Eh, to each their own. I guess it's just semantics. And a quick tip, don't plan anything out in great detail. I did that my first time DMing, terrible. Players ran a van into a manor I didn't intend them to go into. Skeleton plots, skeleton plots, skeleton plots. Developers, etc. etc.

Not to worry, I'm doing a premade campaign that's maybe 15 years old (we're doing 2nd ed, which is what I grew up with and have the rulebooks for). Frankly, I'm as interested to see what happens as they are!

 

[hellthins]

Not to worry, I'm doing a premade campaign that's maybe 15 years old (we're doing 2nd ed, which is what I grew up with and have the rulebooks for). Frankly, I'm as interested to see what happens as they are!

Ha ha, modules. Break 'em, break 'em good.

 

[Altorin]

But the point I am trying to make is that a game doesn't need to be non linear to be sexy. Mario is immortal, and non linear

Super Mario Brothers also had warp pipes.

 

[Buffoon]

Hmm, interesting topic. I don't think there are any genres that should inherently be linear, I think if done well non-linearity is almost always a good thing. However, we're in an age now where non-linearity has become quite a selling point, and I think it's at risk of becoming overdone. 'You write the story!' some developers tell us, and that's all well and good, but usually I just want to be told a story, if it's a good one. And I don't think that aimlessly wandering around a huge landscape and randomly killing stuff makes for a good story anyway, and that's mostly what I end up doing in games with a large amount of freedom, such as Oblivion, Fallout 3, GTA, etc

I am well aware that this is largely a fault of mine rather than the developers, but I'm just worried that current trends might see a total lack of games that are guided and try to tell us a story rather than make us do all the work.

 

[Iori Branford]

Definatly RPGs. As much as I loved fucking around in oblivion (once all my mods were installed) I still ended up getting bored and not bothering to follow the main quests (which I am told was pretty shite anyway)
RPGs need to be mainly linear and forcing you from one point to the next before you forget the story.

No. Even the non-sandbox RPGs could do well with branching paths. Most developers have been just too lazy or too attached to their preferred version of the story to do it, never mind do it well.

 

[Silver]

Definatly RPGs. As much as I loved fucking around in oblivion (once all my mods were installed) I still ended up getting bored and not bothering to follow the main quests (which I am told was pretty shite anyway)
RPGs need to be mainly linear and forcing you from one point to the next before you forget the story.

As Iori says, there's a lot of difference between linear and sandbox. You can have a non-linear game on rails, forcing you forward all the time. It can still branch out, and at least one choice is something I think is necessary for almost any game, these days. It worked for Super Mario, but these days a completely linear game just doesn't work. A game needs more interactivity.

 

[Geekmaster]

Shooters to a degree. I found that Farcry 2 had it's sandbox nature working against it.

Rpgs to a degree. I find that open endedness often comes at the expense of a rich of indepth storyline.

 

[daedrick]

No, no, no, no nononononononono... no. We are in 2008, linearity is over. Developers should learn it and apply it. Linearity is NEVER a good thing in ANY type of game.

 

[GenHellspawn]

RTSs, mostly. Although maybe it's because all the nonlinear campaign-based RTSs out there seem to get ridiculously easy by the time you've amassed a huge army, maybe less so in something like MTW2, but it really shows in Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War: Dark Crusade/Soulstorm, where once you have all the honor guard/wargear slots filled, all the battles are a breeze.

 

[Bulletinmybrain]

I don't think any game "should" be linear, it sort of constricts creativity and originality.

Do you mean the creativity of the developer or the gamer? To the first, I respond no it doesn't. Look at HL2 or Bioshock. Would you say those games isn't creative?

To the second, its really a matter of preference. Personally, while I can understand the appeal of sandbox games, and while have enjoyed a few (GTA:SA, Naruto RoaN), I generally have very little patience for them.

No they are not. Bioshock and HL2 could just have been railshooters and they would have worked.(I.E some things changed but they could have functional have been railshooters.)