Gentlemen, Is chivalry dead?

[AgDr_ODST]

Im alive and kicking so fuck no its not dead. Im a firm believer in treating women with respect and holding them in high regard, and being kind to them but not letting them walk all over you. So yeah I do open doors and pull out chairs and if they're irritated and ask me to I'll stop

 

[Serenegoose]

My boyfriend has always opened car doors for me and held my hand as I walk up steps. Lots of it isn't needed, I mean I can walk up stairs without support just fine, but it's sweet and it makes me feel good. It shows he cares. I like chivalry.

I do think there's a tangible difference between doing it to make someone feel special, and doing it simply because of their gender. It might not be easy to codify, but it's definitely there.

I know you're right but even when it has happened to me just because of my gender I think it is nice. Last week a 90 year old man opened the door of a shop open for me and his arms were struggling. He wasn't even going into that shop, he saw I was and walked over. It was really touching I thought.

I don't see what's wrong with it.

Obviously, your perception of it is entirely up to you. How you go about your dealings with other people is entirely your concern, and I'd never presume to judge for it. I've had people make downright lewd comments at me, and I know that I -ought- to feel that it was utterly sexist (and I do feel that) but there's still a part of me that feels complimented by it. I'm not against 'chivalrous' behaviour, I think that considerate action is sweet. I just think that gender shouldn't be a factor in it. There's no good reason to me to withhold that kind of action to someone just because.

 

[smeghead25]

Chivalry isn't dead, just the number of guys being chivalrous has declined in equal proportion tothe number of girls becoming sluttier. Chivalry has also been beaten around a bit by 'equality'. You know, where women want us to treat them as equals and also do all that gentlemanly stuff for them. Because opening doors and standing for women and all that 'after you' nonsense really shows that neither gender must do anything that the other would not be likely to do for them.

In saying that, I still do it. Because as much as they like to say it, we are not and never will be equal. Women are always going to be more emotional and they're always going to respond better to chivalry, and men are always going to be stubborn tough guys who complain when they have the flu but grunt and shrug it off when they lose an arm. Heh. Shrug it off...

Erm, rant over? What I'm saying is chivalry isn't dead, just the need for it is decreasing. Sure it's nice to open a door for a woman. But mainly it's a subconscious thing that helps for people to bon and become better friends.

 

[Jacklin]

Dave Chappell explains it best

 

[Double A]

Women's equality can't exist with chivalry. Chivalry is basically the idea that women are weaker and need man's help to not die of stupidity.

 

[darkman80723]

yes its dead...women killed it

 

[00slash00]

After a frivolous joyride on the interweb, I came across this spiffing website, dedicated to the old-fashioned chaps, the gentlemen: http://thechap.net/ (please note that this website does nay have anything to do what Im asking here, its just a jumping off point.)

This very site got me thinking. Is chivalry dead? Are the values of the stereotypical gentleman unwanted in a society that demands complete equality between the sexes?

Now please, dont get me wrong. I have very liberal values, of course i support feminism, everyone's equal. But the thing is, I have noticed that the progression of women's rights, however righteous and good for our society it is, has "endangered" the gentleman.

My point is this: Can chivalry exist in a society where everyone is to be treated equally? I, for one, have more than once come across a situation where a lady has critisized my behaviour, saying that I think that "women cant take care of themselves." That's just not true! Also, just offering your coat to a freezing woman is more often than not considered weird, and the gentleman offering his jacket has been stared at, like he was doing something wrong.

So, calling all gentleman escapists, all you chaps, and also, or especially, all female escapists! Your view on this? (feel free to comment on the website here too, after checking it out.)

EDIT: The Poll seems to have failed. How quaint.

the thing with chivalry is, in modern society, it emerged from the idea that womyn are weaker than men and thus, need to be protected and are incapable of doing anything for themselves. theres no reason you cant hold open doors for men and womyn. if you saw a womin struggling to carry something and would help her with it, but wouldnt do the same if it was a man struggling to carry something, then thats sexist. get what i mean? equality does not mean chivalry has to die, but it means you cant be polite to JUST womyn.

I do propose this question, however. as a man, how would you feel if someone insisted on pulling out your chair and pushing it in for you, or tried to avoid profanity or offensive topics when you were nearby? im a guy and i would feel really awkward if someone was always trying to do stuff for me. personally, i would be fine with letting chivalry die. it doesnt really have much place in modern society. however, if one were to insist on keeping it alive, i think that chivalry such as holding open doors and things of that nature, that should be done regularly, for both sexes. something like that is just common courtesy. i dont think one person should pay for everything, and i dont think you should watch your language just because your around a womin (it should depend on the situation, not the persons gender). if people really want to pull out/push in chairs then i feel it should be a practice for special occasions only, and i think it should depend entirely on who gets there first. if you get there first you are no more obligated to pull out her chair, than she would be to pull out yours, if she had gotten there first.

this is my opinion, anyway

 

[Bluexstriker]

I want chivalry to die. I'm tired of double standards. What's that? You get different laws, treated better, maternity leave, and less responsibilities generally in a family when it comes to money, in this equal world? MALE OPPRESSION! MALE OPPRESSION! Chivalry will end when women realize they can't be treated differently than men, and still expect to have the door opened and the bill paid for them.

 

[Baconmonster723]

Chivalry is just disguised chauvanism. I hope it dies. You shouldn't be polite to somebody because they're a woman, you should be polite to everybody who's not an asshole because it's the right thing to to do.

You're off but I understand what you're saying. Chivalry was more a code guided towards a knight, someone of great power and stature, using both for the benefit of the poor and downtrodden. It wasn't all about women. Chivalry was as much a guide to using your power for good than anything else. A Chivalric Knight was a knight who used his abilities to protect those who could not be protected, to safeguard those who were threatened, and if need be die to save innocents. The respectful treatment of women was just one of the many facets of the chivalric code.

-To fear God and maintain His Church
-To serve the liege lord in valour and faith
-To protect the weak and defenceless
-To give succour to widows and orphans
-To refrain from the wanton giving of offence
-To live by honour and for glory
-To despise pecuniary reward
-To fight for the welfare of all
-To obey those placed in authority
-To guard the honour of fellow knights
-To eschew unfairness, meanness and deceit
-To keep faith
-At all times to speak the truth
-To persevere to the end in any enterprise begun
-To respect the honour of women
-Never to refuse a challenge from an equal
-Never to turn the back upon a foe

That is a true chivalric code. As you can see, the respectful treatment of women was but one small facet of the code itself. If one wishes to decry Chivalry they must decry all facets. Some are not totally necessary anymore in today's day and age, for the most part the religious facets. However, the code still stands.

How many knights actually followed that thing? If the history texts I read are accurate, knights were no better than common thugs.

In reality. Not many. This type of knight was more a depiction based off of King Arthur's Knights. However, the concept is no less important. At least in my opinion. Chivalry is what it is, a moral code, now if it was actually followed in the past is up to much scrutiny, however, Chivalry is what it is. It's a guide to fair treatment of the less fortunate and respectful treatment of superiors and the opposite sex. I'm not saying it's an accurate depiction of knights of the past, but it is much more than most people realize is all. To be considered chivalric you must do much more than simply respect women. Now don't get me wrong. I wasn't entirely clear about your initial comment. Respecting women by giving them preferential treatment is not chivalry. I am almost inclined to agree with you that it's a form of unintentional chauvanism. Chivalry is about doing the right thing because you can, not because you expect to get anything in return. I hope chivalry never dies. But I do hope the bad taste of chauvanism can be removed.

 

[HowToCatchAFirefly]

Chivalry isn't how sexual attraction works anymore.

If an unattractive chick started doing favors and opening doors for you, would you be anymore attracted to her because of it?
Of course not. Same for women, too.

hey now. I would be. Although appearance is what you first see and base general observations off of, I would be more attracted to a guy who wasn't considered attractive if he went out of his way to act like a gentleman towards me. It shows interest, kindness, good manners -- chivalry is less about doing things for people as it is about showing the best part of yourself. Also, with the whole argument of sexism, I don't think it's in any way disrespectful of women to be chivalrous -- quite the opposite, it shows respect. good luck, guys

 

[Crusnik]

People who suggest that chivalry is dead don't seem to understand what chivalry is.

If it is truly dead, then it didn't die on it's own. It was kicked in the balls and shot in the face by women. With deer slugs.

 

[FinalHeart95]

Women want equality, so I give it. I talk to them like I talk to my guy friends usually. Seems to be working out well.

 

[Panda Mania]

First off, if the OP is a "gentleman," then let it be known I enjoy "gentlemen's" diction. Conversations automatically improve with a "quaint," "rather," "chap," or "proper" thrown in.

Anyhow, OT: Rather than promote chivalry (meaning courteous behavior) in the specified context of man towards woman, I've always supported the idea of general respect and kindness towards everybody, regardless of gender. Yeah, yeah, I suppose that is "treating everyone equally," but the little gestures of kindness that chivalry specializes in could benefit a wider range of people once freed from traditional orientation and rationale.

 

[Serenegoose]

First off, if the OP is a "gentleman," then let it be known I enjoy "gentlemen's" diction. Conversations automatically improve with a "quaint," "rather," "chap," or "proper" thrown in.

Anyhow, OT: Rather than promote chivalry (meaning courteous behavior) in the specified context of man towards woman, I've always supported the idea of general respect and kindness towards everybody, regardless of gender. Yeah, yeah, I suppose that is "treating everyone equally," but the little gestures of kindness that chivalry specializes in could benefit a wider range of people once freed from traditional orientation and rationale.

Spiffing comment, chum!


Awww, that sounds really sarcastic. It wasn't meant to be?

 

[Panda Mania]

First off, if the OP is a "gentleman," then let it be known I enjoy "gentlemen's" diction. Conversations automatically improve with a "quaint," "rather," "chap," or "proper" thrown in.

Anyhow, OT: Rather than promote chivalry (meaning courteous behavior) in the specified context of man towards woman, I've always supported the idea of general respect and kindness towards everybody, regardless of gender. Yeah, yeah, I suppose that is "treating everyone equally," but the little gestures of kindness that chivalry specializes in could benefit a wider range of people once freed from traditional orientation and rationale.

Spiffing comment, chum!


Awww, that sounds really sarcastic. It wasn't meant to be?

Naw, it didn't come off as sarcastic. In fact, it made me feel all warm and fuzzy. Like I'd swallowed a kitten. *takes out pipe* One can never underestimate the power of a compliment, dear sir. *puff puff*

 

[Serenegoose]

First off, if the OP is a "gentleman," then let it be known I enjoy "gentlemen's" diction. Conversations automatically improve with a "quaint," "rather," "chap," or "proper" thrown in.

Anyhow, OT: Rather than promote chivalry (meaning courteous behavior) in the specified context of man towards woman, I've always supported the idea of general respect and kindness towards everybody, regardless of gender. Yeah, yeah, I suppose that is "treating everyone equally," but the little gestures of kindness that chivalry specializes in could benefit a wider range of people once freed from traditional orientation and rationale.

Spiffing comment, chum!


Awww, that sounds really sarcastic. It wasn't meant to be?

Naw, it didn't come off as sarcastic. In fact, it made me feel all warm and fuzzy. Like I'd swallowed a kitten. *takes out pipe* One can never underestimate the power of a compliment, dear sir. *puff puff*

You've made one of histories most famous blunders! The most famous of which is 'Never start a land war in Asia', but only slightly less well known is this!

Never assume that the person you're talking to on the internet is a sir!

*cackles maniacally, dies*

 

[Dense_Electric]

Here's the thing though, I don't consider treating one half of the population better than the other based on something as trivial and almost always irrelevant as gender to be in any way chivalrous. If by "chivalry" you mean being good to your neighbor and doing unto other as you'd have them do unto you, then yes, I practice it. If by "chivlary" you mean treating women as if they're priviledged and not doing the same for men then no, and I severly hope anyone who does has an unfortunate accident in the near future.

 

[Panda Mania]

First off, if the OP is a "gentleman," then let it be known I enjoy "gentlemen's" diction. Conversations automatically improve with a "quaint," "rather," "chap," or "proper" thrown in.

Anyhow, OT: Rather than promote chivalry (meaning courteous behavior) in the specified context of man towards woman, I've always supported the idea of general respect and kindness towards everybody, regardless of gender. Yeah, yeah, I suppose that is "treating everyone equally," but the little gestures of kindness that chivalry specializes in could benefit a wider range of people once freed from traditional orientation and rationale.

Spiffing comment, chum!


Awww, that sounds really sarcastic. It wasn't meant to be?

Naw, it didn't come off as sarcastic. In fact, it made me feel all warm and fuzzy. Like I'd swallowed a kitten. *takes out pipe* One can never underestimate the power of a compliment, dear sir. *puff puff*

You've made one of histories most famous blunders! The most famous of which is 'Never start a land war in Asia', but only slightly less well known is this!

Never assume that the person you're talking to on the internet is a sir!

*cackles maniacally, dies*

Ah, quite true. I should've been one of the last to make that mistake, as I myself am not a sir. (And yet I do enjoy a good cigar.) 'Tis unfortunate the English language has always floundered when it comes to gender-neutral terms ("it" does not count--it denotes something nonhuman).

 

[Flunk]

Chivalry is pretty sexist if you think about it. If you live with the idea of equality for all people chivalry isn't really an option.