Germany embassy in Sudan stormed

[Daystar Clarion]

What bothers me is the US government's noncommittal response. By not defending our citizens actions (no matter if we personally agree or not), we are abandoning the freedoms laid forth in our constitution. If citizens of another nation can silence American citizens by protest, violence, and murder, then all that America stands for is truly dead.

Free Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

This is not a consequence. This is a violent mob response to an "offensive" video (from a group who get murderous if you even DRAW He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Insulted). This is an American making a (poorly-produced) protected statement, and being thrown to the wolves in order to appease those same wolves.
In essence, the US is saying "These people's request that you not insult Islam matters more to us than your freedom of speech or expression."

Put it this way.

I child is poking a sleeping bear with a stick.

Now that child has all the right in the world to poke that bear with said stick.

Just don't be surprised when the bear wakes up and mauls him.

Freedom of speech isn't some infallible defence to say what you want. I'm sick of people claiming that it is, and that any action taken against someone because of what they said is impeding their 'rights'.

 

[Erttheking]

What bothers me is the US government's noncommittal response. By not defending our citizens actions (no matter if we personally agree or not), we are abandoning the freedoms laid forth in our constitution. If citizens of another nation can silence American citizens by protest, violence, and murder, then all that America stands for is truly dead.

Free Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

I have to agree with Daystar on this one, you can feel free to walk into the middle of a gang and start implying that they all sleep with their mothers, and freedom of speech isn't going to protect you there. I just wish the consequences were going to the asshole who made the film, and not random American and German citizens, who might not have even known that it existed.

Agreed.

This particular instance is rather disturbing because others are dying because of the ill-conceived actions of another.

Throwing out the statement "they just hate Americans" normally is kind of childish and immature (and in a lot of cases flat out wrong), but considering that it was just one guy from America and they killed people that were also from America...I think it might fit this particular situation, considering they were angry enough to kill people just because they were from the same country as that guy. This whole thing is just a giant mess, frankly I don't know what to think of it.

It is a bit of a clusterfuck.

Shame what a few bad apples are doing to the reputation of a whole religion.

Christ, hope that this asshole is happy with himself. Bomb threats at universities, embassies stormed...then again I can't really put all the blame on him. He's a dick yes, but he's not the one killing people. Reminds me of something my Dad said once. A lot of people in western countries have a negative opinion of the middle-east, because they're non-extreme Muslims who immigrated to get the Hell away from stuff like this. Yeesh, these nut jobs are making life more difficult for everyone. Killing people, giving Muslims a bad name...nothing good is coming out of this.

 

[Erttheking]

-Snip-

There is no way in hell I am casting my ballot in this election. Both parties are out of their fucking minds right now and both candidates disappoint me every time they open their mouths.

-Snip-

The sad part is that I know so many people that are falling for the trap. All I have been seeing on facebook for the last two days is blind bigotry.

I really do think that this country could use an Independent president.

 

[Fappy]

-Snip-

There is no way in hell I am casting my ballot in this election. Both parties are out of their fucking minds right now and both candidates disappoint me every time they open their mouths.

-Snip-

The sad part is that I know so many people that are falling for the trap. All I have been seeing on facebook for the last two days is blind bigotry.

I really do think that this country could use an Independent president.

I think it's more likely Washington will rise from his grave and reiterate the fallacy of a two-party system at this point

 

[Erttheking]

-Snip-

There is no way in hell I am casting my ballot in this election. Both parties are out of their fucking minds right now and both candidates disappoint me every time they open their mouths.

-Snip-

The sad part is that I know so many people that are falling for the trap. All I have been seeing on facebook for the last two days is blind bigotry.

I really do think that this country could use an Independent president.

I think it's more likely Washington will rise from his grave and reiterate the fallacy of a two-party system at this point

The guy from the 18th century was able to predict the cluster fuck that was political parties and people to this day still can't seem to catch on...this is really a mess. Frankly I'd take zombie Washington abolishing the Democratic and Republican parties, that way we can look at presidents for their merits and not if they have a donkey or an elephant. Seriously, the guy was a damn decent leader and put in a lot of good precedents (only serve for two terms and what not) so how come we didn't listen to him when it came to the most important part?

 

[ToastiestZombie]

What bothers me is the US government's noncommittal response. By not defending our citizens actions (no matter if we personally agree or not), we are abandoning the freedoms laid forth in our constitution. If citizens of another nation can silence American citizens by protest, violence, and murder, then all that America stands for is truly dead.

Free Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

This is not a consequence. This is a violent mob response to an "offensive" video (from a group who get murderous if you even DRAW He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Insulted). This is an American making a (poorly-produced) protected statement, and being thrown to the wolves in order to appease those same wolves.
In essence, the US is saying "These people's request that you not insult Islam matters more to us than your freedom of speech or expression."

Put it this way.

I child is poking a sleeping bear with a stick.

Now that child has all the right in the world to poke that bear with said stick.

Just don't be surprised when the bear wakes up and mauls him.

Freedom of speech isn't some infallible defence to say what you want. I'm sick of people claiming that it is, and that any action taken against someone because of what they said is impeding their 'rights'.

Yeah I agree, but I'm really not sure what side you're on. Because the extremist Muslims have no right to attempt fucking murder because they're offended, offense shouldn't make crime bad. And no-one should have to apologize to the people attacking buildings and issuing bomb thread. The level-headed Muslims should apologize to Germany and the US for the utter bastards they have in their religion. Like you said, free speech doesn't mean freedom of consequences. Religion shouldn't mean no consequences for terrorism, and damn apologies!

BTW, I'm really not talking about all muslims. I'm talking specifically about the ones who are doing this shit, the extremists. They're criminals and terrorists, they don't have the right to murder and terrorism because they were offended.

 

[Genocidicles]

Anyway, all of this is rather excessive over a film is it not?

Without a doubt. If someone made a video criticizing any other religion there would never be this much uproar. Protests? Probably. Threats of violence? Maybe... but it'd be incredibly unlikely that anyone would act on those threats, and certainly not on a scale like this.

 

[omicron1]

What bothers me is the US government's noncommittal response. By not defending our citizens actions (no matter if we personally agree or not), we are abandoning the freedoms laid forth in our constitution. If citizens of another nation can silence American citizens by protest, violence, and murder, then all that America stands for is truly dead.

Free Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

This is not a consequence. This is a violent mob response to an "offensive" video (from a group who get murderous if you even DRAW He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Insulted). This is an American making a (poorly-produced) protected statement, and being thrown to the wolves in order to appease those same wolves.
In essence, the US is saying "These people's request that you not insult Islam matters more to us than your freedom of speech or expression."

Put it this way.

I child is poking a sleeping bear with a stick.

Now that child has all the right in the world to poke that bear with said stick.

Just don't be surprised when the bear wakes up and mauls him.

Freedom of speech isn't some infallible defence to say what you want. I'm sick of people claiming that it is, and that any action taken against someone because of what they said is impeding their 'rights'.

So "He/she was asking for it" is now a valid defense?
Fact is, I can't draw Mohammed without pissing off a cloud of violent extremists. Who will then use violence and terror to try to control my actions. Do we now negotiate the sale of rights with terrorists?

This is not a bear. This is a belligerent barbarian walking into our backyard and demanding we not look at him funny. There is only one valid response to this trampling on our freedom, and it is not "Yeah, we deserve anything you do to us."

 

[Daystar Clarion]

What bothers me is the US government's noncommittal response. By not defending our citizens actions (no matter if we personally agree or not), we are abandoning the freedoms laid forth in our constitution. If citizens of another nation can silence American citizens by protest, violence, and murder, then all that America stands for is truly dead.

Free Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

This is not a consequence. This is a violent mob response to an "offensive" video (from a group who get murderous if you even DRAW He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Insulted). This is an American making a (poorly-produced) protected statement, and being thrown to the wolves in order to appease those same wolves.
In essence, the US is saying "These people's request that you not insult Islam matters more to us than your freedom of speech or expression."

Put it this way.

I child is poking a sleeping bear with a stick.

Now that child has all the right in the world to poke that bear with said stick.

Just don't be surprised when the bear wakes up and mauls him.

Freedom of speech isn't some infallible defence to say what you want. I'm sick of people claiming that it is, and that any action taken against someone because of what they said is impeding their 'rights'.

Yeah I agree, but I'm really not sure what side you're on. Because the extremist Muslims have no right to attempt fucking murder because they're offended, offense shouldn't make crime bad. And no-one should have to apologize to the people attacking buildings and issuing bomb thread. The level-headed Muslims should apologize to Germany and the US for the utter bastards they have in their religion. Like you said, free speech doesn't mean freedom of consequences. Religion shouldn't mean no consequences for terrorism, and damn apologies!

BTW, I'm really not talking about all muslims. I'm talking specifically about the ones who are doing this shit, the extremists. They're criminals and terrorists, they don't have the right to murder and terrorism because they were offended.

I'm certainly not defending the actions of the radicals

To refer back to my bear analogy...

If you know a particular group reacts violently to specific behaviour, then don't be surprised when they react violently when you commit that behaviour.

 

[Fappy]

-Snip-

There is no way in hell I am casting my ballot in this election. Both parties are out of their fucking minds right now and both candidates disappoint me every time they open their mouths.

-Snip-

The sad part is that I know so many people that are falling for the trap. All I have been seeing on facebook for the last two days is blind bigotry.

I really do think that this country could use an Independent president.

I think it's more likely Washington will rise from his grave and reiterate the fallacy of a two-party system at this point

The guy from the 18th century was able to predict the cluster fuck that was political parties and people to this day still can't seem to catch on...this is really a mess. Frankly I'd take zombie Washington abolishing the Democratic and Republican parties, that way we can look at presidents for their merits and not if they have a donkey or an elephant. Seriously, the guy was a damn decent leader and put in a lot of good precedents (only serve for two terms and what not) so how come we didn't listen to him when it came to the most important part?

Someone more well-versed than me in US History could explain that. Basically it didn't take long for people to fuck it up after Washington was done in office >.>

 

[ToastiestZombie]

What bothers me is the US government's noncommittal response. By not defending our citizens actions (no matter if we personally agree or not), we are abandoning the freedoms laid forth in our constitution. If citizens of another nation can silence American citizens by protest, violence, and murder, then all that America stands for is truly dead.

Free Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

This is not a consequence. This is a violent mob response to an "offensive" video (from a group who get murderous if you even DRAW He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Insulted). This is an American making a (poorly-produced) protected statement, and being thrown to the wolves in order to appease those same wolves.
In essence, the US is saying "These people's request that you not insult Islam matters more to us than your freedom of speech or expression."

Put it this way.

I child is poking a sleeping bear with a stick.

Now that child has all the right in the world to poke that bear with said stick.

Just don't be surprised when the bear wakes up and mauls him.

Freedom of speech isn't some infallible defence to say what you want. I'm sick of people claiming that it is, and that any action taken against someone because of what they said is impeding their 'rights'.

Yeah I agree, but I'm really not sure what side you're on. Because the extremist Muslims have no right to attempt fucking murder because they're offended, offense shouldn't make crime bad. And no-one should have to apologize to the people attacking buildings and issuing bomb thread. The level-headed Muslims should apologize to Germany and the US for the utter bastards they have in their religion. Like you said, free speech doesn't mean freedom of consequences. Religion shouldn't mean no consequences for terrorism, and damn apologies!

BTW, I'm really not talking about all muslims. I'm talking specifically about the ones who are doing this shit, the extremists. They're criminals and terrorists, they don't have the right to murder and terrorism because they were offended.

I'm certainly not defending the actions of the radicals

To refer back to my bear analogy...

If you know a particular group reacts violently to specific behaviour, then don't be surprised when they react violently when you commit that behaviour.

Who says we weren't surprised? And really, radicals, extremists and terrorists should not be able to control the way the world works. Saying "Oh he shouldn't of done it if he knew the consequences" is not an excuse, and is basically just giving into the radicals.

 

[Erttheking]

-Snip-

There is no way in hell I am casting my ballot in this election. Both parties are out of their fucking minds right now and both candidates disappoint me every time they open their mouths.

-Snip-

The sad part is that I know so many people that are falling for the trap. All I have been seeing on facebook for the last two days is blind bigotry.

I really do think that this country could use an Independent president.

I think it's more likely Washington will rise from his grave and reiterate the fallacy of a two-party system at this point

The guy from the 18th century was able to predict the cluster fuck that was political parties and people to this day still can't seem to catch on...this is really a mess. Frankly I'd take zombie Washington abolishing the Democratic and Republican parties, that way we can look at presidents for their merits and not if they have a donkey or an elephant. Seriously, the guy was a damn decent leader and put in a lot of good precedents (only serve for two terms and what not) so how come we didn't listen to him when it came to the most important part?

Someone more well-versed than me in US History could explain that. Basically it didn't take long for people to fuck it up after Washington was done in office >.>

Literally political parties popped right after he left office, he was the only president of the United States to not belong to one. He must have been pissed.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

What bothers me is the US government's noncommittal response. By not defending our citizens actions (no matter if we personally agree or not), we are abandoning the freedoms laid forth in our constitution. If citizens of another nation can silence American citizens by protest, violence, and murder, then all that America stands for is truly dead.

Free Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

This is not a consequence. This is a violent mob response to an "offensive" video (from a group who get murderous if you even DRAW He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Insulted). This is an American making a (poorly-produced) protected statement, and being thrown to the wolves in order to appease those same wolves.
In essence, the US is saying "These people's request that you not insult Islam matters more to us than your freedom of speech or expression."

Put it this way.

I child is poking a sleeping bear with a stick.

Now that child has all the right in the world to poke that bear with said stick.

Just don't be surprised when the bear wakes up and mauls him.

Freedom of speech isn't some infallible defence to say what you want. I'm sick of people claiming that it is, and that any action taken against someone because of what they said is impeding their 'rights'.

So "He/she was asking for it" is now a valid defense?
Fact is, I can't draw Mohammed without pissing off a cloud of violent extremists. Who will then use violence and terror to try to control my actions. Do we now negotiate the sale of rights with terrorists?

This is not a bear. This is a belligerent barbarian walking into our backyard and demanding we not look at him funny. There is only one valid response to this trampling on our freedom, and it is not "Yeah, we deserve anything you do to us."

'Trampling your freedom'?

I've got news for you, the US isn't the only country with freedom of speech.

Except the other countries have the foresight to understand that if you kick a hornets nest, you're gonna get stung.

I'm in no way condoning the actions of the radicals, far from it, but being able to say what you want doesn't mean you're free form the consequences of what you say.

Were the Muslim radicals overreacting?

Of course they were.

That's why they're called radicals.

 

[Fappy]

-Snip-

At least he gets to be dead. We're the ones living through this bullshit right now

 

[Fappy]

I'm in no way condemning the actions of the radicals

I think you meant "condoning"

Freudian slip! :O

 

[Daystar Clarion]

What bothers me is the US government's noncommittal response. By not defending our citizens actions (no matter if we personally agree or not), we are abandoning the freedoms laid forth in our constitution. If citizens of another nation can silence American citizens by protest, violence, and murder, then all that America stands for is truly dead.

Free Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

This is not a consequence. This is a violent mob response to an "offensive" video (from a group who get murderous if you even DRAW He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Insulted). This is an American making a (poorly-produced) protected statement, and being thrown to the wolves in order to appease those same wolves.
In essence, the US is saying "These people's request that you not insult Islam matters more to us than your freedom of speech or expression."

Put it this way.

I child is poking a sleeping bear with a stick.

Now that child has all the right in the world to poke that bear with said stick.

Just don't be surprised when the bear wakes up and mauls him.

Freedom of speech isn't some infallible defence to say what you want. I'm sick of people claiming that it is, and that any action taken against someone because of what they said is impeding their 'rights'.

Yeah I agree, but I'm really not sure what side you're on. Because the extremist Muslims have no right to attempt fucking murder because they're offended, offense shouldn't make crime bad. And no-one should have to apologize to the people attacking buildings and issuing bomb thread. The level-headed Muslims should apologize to Germany and the US for the utter bastards they have in their religion. Like you said, free speech doesn't mean freedom of consequences. Religion shouldn't mean no consequences for terrorism, and damn apologies!

BTW, I'm really not talking about all muslims. I'm talking specifically about the ones who are doing this shit, the extremists. They're criminals and terrorists, they don't have the right to murder and terrorism because they were offended.

I'm certainly not defending the actions of the radicals

To refer back to my bear analogy...

If you know a particular group reacts violently to specific behaviour, then don't be surprised when they react violently when you commit that behaviour.

Who says we weren't surprised? And really, radicals, extremists and terrorists should not be able to control the way the world works. Saying "Oh he shouldn't of done it if he knew the consequences" is not an excuse, and is basically just giving into the radicals.

Obviously it mean we shouldn't sit back and let them perform their actions free of consequence, it works both ways.

Terribly enough, it won't be the people who committed this act that face the consequences.

It'll be the Muslim people who have to bear the brunt of it.

 

[Erttheking]

What bothers me is the US government's noncommittal response. By not defending our citizens actions (no matter if we personally agree or not), we are abandoning the freedoms laid forth in our constitution. If citizens of another nation can silence American citizens by protest, violence, and murder, then all that America stands for is truly dead.

Free Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

This is not a consequence. This is a violent mob response to an "offensive" video (from a group who get murderous if you even DRAW He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Insulted). This is an American making a (poorly-produced) protected statement, and being thrown to the wolves in order to appease those same wolves.
In essence, the US is saying "These people's request that you not insult Islam matters more to us than your freedom of speech or expression."

Put it this way.

I child is poking a sleeping bear with a stick.

Now that child has all the right in the world to poke that bear with said stick.

Just don't be surprised when the bear wakes up and mauls him.

Freedom of speech isn't some infallible defence to say what you want. I'm sick of people claiming that it is, and that any action taken against someone because of what they said is impeding their 'rights'.

Yeah I agree, but I'm really not sure what side you're on. Because the extremist Muslims have no right to attempt fucking murder because they're offended, offense shouldn't make crime bad. And no-one should have to apologize to the people attacking buildings and issuing bomb thread. The level-headed Muslims should apologize to Germany and the US for the utter bastards they have in their religion. Like you said, free speech doesn't mean freedom of consequences. Religion shouldn't mean no consequences for terrorism, and damn apologies!

BTW, I'm really not talking about all muslims. I'm talking specifically about the ones who are doing this shit, the extremists. They're criminals and terrorists, they don't have the right to murder and terrorism because they were offended.

I'm certainly not defending the actions of the radicals

To refer back to my bear analogy...

If you know a particular group reacts violently to specific behaviour, then don't be surprised when they react violently when you commit that behaviour.

Who says we weren't surprised? And really, radicals, extremists and terrorists should not be able to control the way the world works. Saying "Oh he shouldn't of done it if he knew the consequences" is not an excuse, and is basically just giving into the radicals.

Obviously it mean we shouldn't sit back and let them perform their actions free of consequence, it works both ways.

Terribly enough, it won't be the people who committed this act that face the consequences.

It'll be the Muslim people who have to bear the brunt of it.

So in a way, the guy who made the film is getting what he wants....life is bullshit.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

I'm in no way condemning the actions of the radicals

I think you meant "condoning"

Freudian slip! :O

Shit, you're right.

That could have gotten ugly, fast

 

[Daystar Clarion]

What bothers me is the US government's noncommittal response. By not defending our citizens actions (no matter if we personally agree or not), we are abandoning the freedoms laid forth in our constitution. If citizens of another nation can silence American citizens by protest, violence, and murder, then all that America stands for is truly dead.

Free Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

This is not a consequence. This is a violent mob response to an "offensive" video (from a group who get murderous if you even DRAW He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Insulted). This is an American making a (poorly-produced) protected statement, and being thrown to the wolves in order to appease those same wolves.
In essence, the US is saying "These people's request that you not insult Islam matters more to us than your freedom of speech or expression."

Put it this way.

I child is poking a sleeping bear with a stick.

Now that child has all the right in the world to poke that bear with said stick.

Just don't be surprised when the bear wakes up and mauls him.

Freedom of speech isn't some infallible defence to say what you want. I'm sick of people claiming that it is, and that any action taken against someone because of what they said is impeding their 'rights'.

Yeah I agree, but I'm really not sure what side you're on. Because the extremist Muslims have no right to attempt fucking murder because they're offended, offense shouldn't make crime bad. And no-one should have to apologize to the people attacking buildings and issuing bomb thread. The level-headed Muslims should apologize to Germany and the US for the utter bastards they have in their religion. Like you said, free speech doesn't mean freedom of consequences. Religion shouldn't mean no consequences for terrorism, and damn apologies!

BTW, I'm really not talking about all muslims. I'm talking specifically about the ones who are doing this shit, the extremists. They're criminals and terrorists, they don't have the right to murder and terrorism because they were offended.

I'm certainly not defending the actions of the radicals

To refer back to my bear analogy...

If you know a particular group reacts violently to specific behaviour, then don't be surprised when they react violently when you commit that behaviour.

Who says we weren't surprised? And really, radicals, extremists and terrorists should not be able to control the way the world works. Saying "Oh he shouldn't of done it if he knew the consequences" is not an excuse, and is basically just giving into the radicals.

Obviously it mean we shouldn't sit back and let them perform their actions free of consequence, it works both ways.

Terribly enough, it won't be the people who committed this act that face the consequences.

It'll be the Muslim people who have to bear the brunt of it.

So in a way, the guy who made the film is getting what he wants....life is bullshit.

Indeed.

Freedom is great when you're not the person who has to die for it.

 

[Erttheking]

What bothers me is the US government's noncommittal response. By not defending our citizens actions (no matter if we personally agree or not), we are abandoning the freedoms laid forth in our constitution. If citizens of another nation can silence American citizens by protest, violence, and murder, then all that America stands for is truly dead.

Free Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

This is not a consequence. This is a violent mob response to an "offensive" video (from a group who get murderous if you even DRAW He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Insulted). This is an American making a (poorly-produced) protected statement, and being thrown to the wolves in order to appease those same wolves.
In essence, the US is saying "These people's request that you not insult Islam matters more to us than your freedom of speech or expression."

Put it this way.

I child is poking a sleeping bear with a stick.

Now that child has all the right in the world to poke that bear with said stick.

Just don't be surprised when the bear wakes up and mauls him.

Freedom of speech isn't some infallible defence to say what you want. I'm sick of people claiming that it is, and that any action taken against someone because of what they said is impeding their 'rights'.

Yeah I agree, but I'm really not sure what side you're on. Because the extremist Muslims have no right to attempt fucking murder because they're offended, offense shouldn't make crime bad. And no-one should have to apologize to the people attacking buildings and issuing bomb thread. The level-headed Muslims should apologize to Germany and the US for the utter bastards they have in their religion. Like you said, free speech doesn't mean freedom of consequences. Religion shouldn't mean no consequences for terrorism, and damn apologies!

BTW, I'm really not talking about all muslims. I'm talking specifically about the ones who are doing this shit, the extremists. They're criminals and terrorists, they don't have the right to murder and terrorism because they were offended.

I'm certainly not defending the actions of the radicals

To refer back to my bear analogy...

If you know a particular group reacts violently to specific behaviour, then don't be surprised when they react violently when you commit that behaviour.

Who says we weren't surprised? And really, radicals, extremists and terrorists should not be able to control the way the world works. Saying "Oh he shouldn't of done it if he knew the consequences" is not an excuse, and is basically just giving into the radicals.

Obviously it mean we shouldn't sit back and let them perform their actions free of consequence, it works both ways.

Terribly enough, it won't be the people who committed this act that face the consequences.

It'll be the Muslim people who have to bear the brunt of it.

So in a way, the guy who made the film is getting what he wants....life is bullshit.

Indeed.

Freedom is great when you're not the person who has to die for it.

I'm starting to get the feeling that maybe we should be apologizing for this. Not to the radicals, they can go eat a dick, but to the non-extremists who are going to be affected by this. Something like "if you recently attacked a foreign embassy, then go fuck yourself, if you did not and you are being affected by the hatred caused by this incident, then I apologize from the depths of my heart"