Germany embassy in Sudan stormed

jamesworkshop

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Sep 3, 2008
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Can't say i'm surprised, they did this over a cartoon last time which only boosted it's readership by making an international fuss.

If people want to take offense that's fine but people that go straight to violence at the drop of a hat don't get any special cosideration for hurt feelings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUEaMA4gRIk



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kceZ5w-W_Uc&feature=player_detailpage#t=360s
 

MammothBlade

It's not that I LIKE you b-baka!
Oct 12, 2011
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erttheking said:
MammothBlade said:
erttheking said:
Incidently, I wonder how that guy who made this movie feels knowing that he's caused so many deaths. Oh, and by the way I learned an interesting piece of trivia. Remember that guy who wanted to organize a massive burning of Quarns? It's the exact same guy...lovely.
The man who made this film is in no way responsible for the violent mob rampages. No, the people responsible are the individuals who participate in violent mobs themselves. People aren't compelled to go and bomb Western embassies because someone criticised their religion. They chose to participate in such hateful, extremist violence and they alone are to blame. They could have chosen to react with tolerance towards free speech, but instead they went into a violent fit over it.
True, but I'm a little hesitant to write him off as completely innocent.
He is responsible for angering a bunch of radical muslims, but angering a group of people is not in itself bad. Often, free speech and free thought mean upsetting people. And that's good, a world without social gadflies and unsettlers would be a very culturally and politically stagnant one. Said angry muslims are the ones responsible for the completely disproportionate way they reacted to criticism of their religion, and they should NOT get special treatment or exemption from criticism or satire.

Let the thoughtless rabble burn down as many buildings and kill as many innocent people as they like, but they will never win their war on free speech.
 

worldruler8

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Fappy said:
worldruler8 said:
I guess I'd have to see his apology for myself to decide whether or not I think it was appropriate. As I said, I was working with 2nd-hand information. I knew about the coincidences and bad-timing plaguing the whole affair. Frankly, I find it weird people thought the attack on the ambassador had anything to do with the film considering is was 9/11--when we expect this kind of thing to happen--and it was obviously something that had to be planned ahead of time.

The fact that terrorists attacked the embassy really mucks up the whole situation. This kind of stuff is so much simpler when it's a direct attack from one country to another.
Here is what the Embassy said. Realize this was when there was an angry mob outside:
"The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims ? as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions. Today, the 11th anniversary of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the United States, Americans are honoring our patriots and those who serve our nation as the fitting response to the enemies of democracy. Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy. We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others.?

They also said this when someone said they were apologizing:
"Of course we condemn breaches of our compound, we?re the ones actually living through this."

This is what Romney said, again, before the death of the Ambassador was officially announced:
"I'm outraged by the attacks on American diplomatic missions in Libya and Egypt and by the death of an American consulate worker in Benghazi. It's disgraceful that the Obama administration's first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks.?

This is what he said after we knew of the deaths:
"I also believe the administration was wrong to stand by a statement sympathizing with those who had breached our embassy in Egypt, instead of condemning their actions. It's never too early for the United States government to condemn attacks on Americans and to defend our values. The White House distanced itself last night from the statement, saying it wasn?t cleared by Washington. That reflects the mixed signals they're sending to the world.?

This was the official administration statement regarding what the embassy said:
"I?m not going to sit here and parse the two texts. I think from our perspective, the message was unbalanced, the words were mischosen and they were not clearly comprehensible to all audiences.?

Although one could interpret what the Embassy said as apologetic, I think it's a matter of opinion to call it an apology. They were clearly trying to calm the riots because they feared for their lives.

Here's a link:http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/the-romney-campaigns-repeated-errors-on-the-cairo-embassy-statement/2012/09/13/978a6be6-fdf0-11e1-b153-218509a954e1_blog.html
 

DugMachine

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This is so fucking aggravating. How many more people need to get hurt or killed because of some extremist nutjobs and a guy's shit movie? Ugh
 

Araqiel

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Jul 5, 2011
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seems like in Tunis it's escalating pretty bad as well...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2012/sep/14/friday-protests-anti-islam-us-film-live?INTCMP=SRCH
 

Nantucket_v1legacy

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Mar 6, 2012
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Calm down guys - it's only a film!
This violence is disgusting and when things like this happen I wonder if the USA are doing the right thing. Religion should not govern you and I say that as a Christian. Politics and Religion should never mix because Religion is the old politics and we have moved on.
 

Erttheking

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MammothBlade said:
erttheking said:
MammothBlade said:
erttheking said:
Incidently, I wonder how that guy who made this movie feels knowing that he's caused so many deaths. Oh, and by the way I learned an interesting piece of trivia. Remember that guy who wanted to organize a massive burning of Quarns? It's the exact same guy...lovely.
The man who made this film is in no way responsible for the violent mob rampages. No, the people responsible are the individuals who participate in violent mobs themselves. People aren't compelled to go and bomb Western embassies because someone criticised their religion. They chose to participate in such hateful, extremist violence and they alone are to blame. They could have chosen to react with tolerance towards free speech, but instead they went into a violent fit over it.
True, but I'm a little hesitant to write him off as completely innocent.
He is responsible for angering a bunch of radical muslims, but angering a group of people is not in itself bad. Often, free speech and free thought mean upsetting people. And that's good, a world without social gadflies and unsettlers would be a very culturally and politically stagnant one. Said angry muslims are the ones responsible for the completely disproportionate way they reacted to criticism of their religion, and they should NOT get special treatment or exemption from criticism or satire.

Let the thoughtless rabble burn down as many buildings and kill as many innocent people as they like, but they will never win their war on free speech.
Ok, fair enough. Still, I am going to view what he did as tasteless.
 

Erttheking

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Nantucket said:
Calm down guys - it's only a film!
This violence is disgusting and when things like this happen I wonder if the USA are doing the right thing. Religion should not govern you and I say that as a Christian. Politics and Religion should never mix because Religion is the old politics and we have moved on.
Not sure I follow. What is the US doing wrong?
 

Nantucket_v1legacy

acting on my best behaviour
Mar 6, 2012
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erttheking said:
Nantucket said:
Calm down guys - it's only a film!
This violence is disgusting and when things like this happen I wonder if the USA are doing the right thing. Religion should not govern you and I say that as a Christian. Politics and Religion should never mix because Religion is the old politics and we have moved on.
Not sure I follow. What is the US doing wrong?
Ah. I thought I deleted that section... oh well I will explain.

I, personally, have always felt the USA and Great Britain have been trying for years to Westernise the East. Their laws regarding adultery and woman's equal rights are so radical to ours and we see it almost as... dare I say-- primitive.

However if you look back before the World Wars, Britain had the rule of thumb. You could beat your wife with a stick but it can be no thicker than your thumb. We could never imagine that now. But back then it was normal and now women have gained equal rights by proving their worth with the Suffragettes and contributing with World Wars.

Women have not proved that in the East.

To get off women's rights the point I am making is:

Those countries have not evolved and gone through similar experiences hence why certain laws have not changed/evolved. I have always felt-- Leave them alone and let them progress as natural but after these riots over a bloody film on the internet... get a grip.

The film has been taken down.
It's the director's problem and not the innocent people in the Embassy. Have they not forgotten how hard we fought with them to keep Gadaffi from breathing down their necks?
 

Pandalisk

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Jan 25, 2009
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Nantucket said:
erttheking said:
Nantucket said:
Calm down guys - it's only a film!
This violence is disgusting and when things like this happen I wonder if the USA are doing the right thing. Religion should not govern you and I say that as a Christian. Politics and Religion should never mix because Religion is the old politics and we have moved on.
Not sure I follow. What is the US doing wrong?
It's the director's problem and not the innocent people in the Embassy. Have they not forgotten how hard we fought with them to keep Gadaffi from breathing down their necks?
These people are killing innocents over a film, they either don't know because they don't care or are just plain ignorant, probably the former and the later.

Reading the OP was like riding down a spiral staircase of crap, you read the first link "shit", then the second "Shit", then the third "Shit!", then the fourth "SHIT".

also why are they hating on the Germans? what did they do? or is because their white and thus close enough?
 

MammothBlade

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Oct 12, 2011
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Nantucket said:
It's the director's problem and not the innocent people in the Embassy.
I think you mean it's the problem of the radical Muslims who overreacted to the film with violence. The director is not at fault for the way some backwards moronic thugs have chosen to react.
 

alphamalet

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Nov 29, 2011
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I'll Christopher Hitchens explain how ridiculous this is. Jeez, I miss this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7aS7m3odqI
 

lacktheknack

Je suis joined jewels.
Jan 19, 2009
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erttheking said:
Oh, and by the way I learned an interesting piece of trivia. Remember that guy who wanted to organize a massive burning of Quarns? It's the exact same guy...lovely.
Actually, that's a good thing. It means there's one less terrifying anti-Islamic radical than there could have been.

OT: I swear, the radical protesters exist on a morality scale of blue and orange. Whatever happened to the passages in the Quran about "Jews, Christians and Muslims will be judged by their own religions" and "do not kill people"?
 

tangoprime

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May 5, 2011
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Daystar Clarion said:
omicron1 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
omicron1 said:
What bothers me is the US government's noncommittal response. By not defending our citizens actions (no matter if we personally agree or not), we are abandoning the freedoms laid forth in our constitution. If citizens of another nation can silence American citizens by protest, violence, and murder, then all that America stands for is truly dead.

Free Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.
This is not a consequence. This is a violent mob response to an "offensive" video (from a group who get murderous if you even DRAW He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Insulted). This is an American making a (poorly-produced) protected statement, and being thrown to the wolves in order to appease those same wolves.
In essence, the US is saying "These people's request that you not insult Islam matters more to us than your freedom of speech or expression."
Put it this way.

I child is poking a sleeping bear with a stick.

Now that child has all the right in the world to poke that bear with said stick.

Just don't be surprised when the bear wakes up and mauls him.

Freedom of speech isn't some infallible defence to say what you want. I'm sick of people claiming that it is, and that any action taken against someone because of what they said is impeding their 'rights'.
So what you're saying is that these people performing these actions on behalf of their particular fairy tale character are comparible to undomesticated animals who attack what they don't understand? On this, we agree.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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tangoprime said:
Daystar Clarion said:
omicron1 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
omicron1 said:
What bothers me is the US government's noncommittal response. By not defending our citizens actions (no matter if we personally agree or not), we are abandoning the freedoms laid forth in our constitution. If citizens of another nation can silence American citizens by protest, violence, and murder, then all that America stands for is truly dead.

Free Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.
This is not a consequence. This is a violent mob response to an "offensive" video (from a group who get murderous if you even DRAW He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Insulted). This is an American making a (poorly-produced) protected statement, and being thrown to the wolves in order to appease those same wolves.
In essence, the US is saying "These people's request that you not insult Islam matters more to us than your freedom of speech or expression."
Put it this way.

I child is poking a sleeping bear with a stick.

Now that child has all the right in the world to poke that bear with said stick.

Just don't be surprised when the bear wakes up and mauls him.

Freedom of speech isn't some infallible defence to say what you want. I'm sick of people claiming that it is, and that any action taken against someone because of what they said is impeding their 'rights'.
So what you're saying is that these people performing these actions on behalf of their particular fairy tale character are comparible to undomesticated animals who attack what they don't understand? On this, we agree.
That's not what I'm saying at all.

Nice attempt at putting words in my mouth though.
 

Lyri

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Dec 8, 2008
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MammothBlade said:
The director of said film is in no way responsible for the violent mob rampages. No, the people responsible are the individuals who participate in violent mobs themselves. People aren't compelled to go and bomb Western embassies because someone criticised their religion. They chose to participate in such hateful, extremist violence and they alone are to blame. They could have chosen to react with tolerance towards free speech, but instead they went into a violent fit over it.
With one hand you protect and the other hand you condemn.

You can't seriously say that the director is blameless in this situation at all, exacerbating anti-western sentiment by creating an anti-islam film is the root of this situation in which innocent people lost their lives.
Regardless if they are people of the USA or other countries, people died.

It truly is shocking how blind you can be because one person is "exercising his freedom of speech".
Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing but hate speech isn't covered under it, quit wrapping him up in the stars and stripes.