Get Back Up

[Jeff Dunn]

I could be wrong, but most of the comments here are objecting to the idea that people who are up in arms about the trailers are only up in arms "because it's a woman." "If it were a man," you'd say, "then none of these whiners would be talking. It's unfair towards men."

I think that would be missing the real argument. Nobody is against the violence towards Lara solely because she's a woman - that actually would be hypocritical.

Instead, people seem to be upset over the fact that Lara has gone from confident badass chick to weakling damsel-in-distress-ish who needs male protection (because men are the target demo). On top of that, in order to further "humanize" her, they're going to throw the ever-present, implied threat of rape out there and surround her with it at every turn.

Sure, the actual act of violation may not happen, but the threat of it - the idea that "shit I have to make sure poor little Lara doesn't get raped" - will be there. People believe that's really unfair, considering CD's apparent belief that falling out of a plane, being shot at, struggling for food, and tripping over tree branches isn't enough to make Lara more "humanized" (which, IMO, I'm convinced CD doesn't quite understand the meaning of. It seems like they're going from one end of the non-human spectrum to the other). They have to make her cower at the big strong men, and have you, the other big strong man, protect her, which is kind of fucked up.

I'm not saying I agree with that point of view either way. In fact, I mostly agree with Susan's assessment. I just see the same made-up counterargument being repeated in comments everywhere and thought I could clarify. Of course I may be misreading things on both sides, haha. Hope I'm not.

 

[Woodsey]

Rosenberg came off sounding like a condescending chauvinist who doesn't understand the first thing about the player's relationship with Lara.

Actually, I think the guy sounds like someone who completely understands a male player's relationship with a completely inexperienced, 21-year-old female character who they are playing as in the third-person.

Well, he did come off as a condescending chauvinist. Which is not to say I wouldn't be putting my money on him being right.

Personally I suspect there's a real danger of reading entirely too much in character actions here. When it comes down to it the trailer shows very little, and much of what I hear bandied around so far is largely projection, conjecture, and assumption.

Of course it's entirely possiblethat Crystal Dynamics will deliver a robust, yet subtly complex character, but on the whole I suspect we really shouldn't hold our collective breaths for it to be anything beyond a cardboard cutout of the stereotypical Break the Cutie [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BreakTheCutie] - even though that arguably would be a huge improvement over the current "characterisation" of being a pair of tits with a love for hidden treasure.

The trailer shows little in terms of what? We've already seen the entire attempted rape.

And again, there's nothing chauvinist about saying what type of reaction it's going to inspire in a certain group - there's nothing, "men are superior" about what he said or in that reaction to it. I can see it being viewed as a little condescending when he says it's like you're helping her, but it seems apparent he's just trying to iterate on the same point - he says it like three times in different ways.

And seriously, that Kotaku article was shit.

 

[BrotherRool]

Your idea is fine, but I meant more, what you have done in terms of her character, rather than setting?

Yeah, I did drift off topic somewhat there. My bad.

I've got nothing against the new game's proposed character arc, in theory, I'd just prefer if it was in a setting more befitting Lara's roots. I haven't played Uncharted but from what I've seen of it that series doesn't play up the mystical/fantasy elements like Tomb Raider always has, so wouldn't that have been a valid way to make the reboot distinct?

Hmm... in some ways I guess. The latter half of an Uncharted game is always spent in a mystical environment killing zombies/yeti's whatever so I wouldn't say that it doesn't play it up, but it could make it distinct.

But in some ways, okay that distinguishes but it doesn't get me invested in the franchise. The success of Uncharted has never been in the stuff that's happening or where it's happening, but people genuinely like Nathan Drake and it's always about what he does next. There's a huge character focus. And Lara Croft has the press disadvantage of having her name be the franchise. It's completely associated with her and it'd be hard to engage people with the peripheral stuff. I'm pretty sure most people's thought process goes 'Lara Croft(the game) -> Lara Croft (the person) -> Lara's 'personalities' (possibly with a stop off at Angelina Jolie inbetween). I'm not a franchise fan but I've played some of the games and I couldn't tell you the slightest bit about what happens in them

Alternatively they could have went the Saints Row 2 route and embraced the inherent absurdity of the character. SR2 has a serious underlying story but it plays out almost as if the characters know they're in a video game (like in the ludicrously high number of murders Gat is on trial for.) Just Cause 2 would be another example of that kind of game. It's not deep, but it's fun.

This is more valid, but Saints Row isn't just absurd characters it's absurd gameplay from start to finish, which is why it works. You'd have to throw out all the 'woah we're exploring an ancient civilisation' stuff and replace it with 'look at all these wacky traps! Why do they still work!'

That could be fine, it'd make a funny game. It feels less true to the character to me but I wouldn't object to it because it'd be interesting. At least there'd be something memorable about Lara Croft

Incidentally if you meant the new Casino Royale, well played, I hated that and I guess for similar reasons that other people hate this. I think maybe a difference is in Casino Royale they took away the suaveness of Bond and didn't actually replace it with a personality. I can't tell you one thing about how Daniel Craig would react in any situation. He was in a lot of pain but he wasn't reacting emotionally to the pain. It just hurt.

Whereas here there's an emphasis on what Lara is actually thinking about this and the emotional content. Also Lara Croft was never really suave (to be honest we've got a lack of that kind of hero too at the moment. The game industry has really done nothing with character over the last 20 years) so she was already in many ways a Daniel Craig James Bong

And yet most people would say that Casino Royale 'humanised' Bond in ways the previous films hadn't. It's all a matter of individual perspective. Again, like Lara, Bond's lack of 'realistic' personality never bothered me, since that's not what the franchise is about, and he did get character development when it mattered.

I am curious about how much of the negative reaction is coming from long term fans of Tomb Raider, like myself. I'd do a poll on it, but I think we have more than enough threads on this subject as it is.

[/quote]
There's a huge difference between Bond and Lara. Both lack a realistic personality, but we're not talking about realism here. In many ways Bond had a personality, he was a high flyer, a lady charmer, the man with the style and the cool line, unbreakable underpressure etc. We know stuff about Bond, we know how he walks and talks, what he'd do in a situation. It's not a realistic person, but maybe the problem people have is he's quite a shallow person, who doesn't look for much depth. But if Bond is in a situation at least I'll have some idea what he'll do.

It's not that Lara Croft doesn't have a realistic personality. It's that she doesn't have a personality. In truth if I were to make a game that was to keep true to the series but improve, I'd play up the Catwoman personality, that's probably as close as Lara came to anything. But Tomb Raider was a sinking ship, a weak IP with only hardcore fans and no-one else knew why they should care what happens to her. There were better more interesting games with better more interesting characters .

This is what Lara Croft meant to the world
http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20060403
and frankly that just doesn't cut it. But here we have a strong feminine character, resilient and relatable making use out of tropes and making the industry look like it's fallen far behind.

I'm pretty sure a lot of the strong comments were started by Tomb Raider fans and I guess it is change. I'm pretty sure people who never played Deus Ex enjoyed Deus Ex:Human Revolution a lot more. Maybe they should have done it with a new IP. But then chances are it wouldn't have got made, because you can't sell new IPs without a lot of backing and it's risky. Equally Tomb Raider was dying.

Look at this graph
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2009/04/24/eidos-shows-lifetime-sales-for-tomb-raider/1

The weird thing is, Tomb Raider is completely entrenched in the popular cultures. It's got ridiculously long tails on it's sales (for example Underworld sold a million copies the year after its release) it's clear this isn't a franchise that should die. In terms of brand power, the name Lara Croft is actually up there with Mario. More people in the world know who Lara Croft is than Solid Snake, or Drake or Max Payne etc. But all those games completely obliterate Tomb Raider in sales figures. Max Payne 3 sold in a week the same number of games as Tomb Raider has sold in five years (which includes two releases). MGS4 is a console exclusive but has sold the same number of games as the last 3 Tomb Raiders combined.

And from the reviews I've read, these weren't bad games at all. The problem is something deeper

 

[The Cake Is Annoying]

It just all feels utterly hollow to me though.

Everything from the incredibly cliched gravelly voiced dad being the strong parent she looks up to in her family to the total lack of reaction to "I was nearly just raped and I shot a man in the face. Ho hum, time to dust myself off and act like a sociopathic Hollywood action film."

This is progress? Hardly. This is flirting with "nearly raped" as a marketing gimmick the same way GTA and Carmageddon's violence as a unique selling point. This isn't storytelling a female character's story, this is a male character with a lazy genderswap (marketing want boobs) and "women's problems because they're not men". But it doesn't it in anyway as consequential.

This *isn't* progress and everyone who is calling it lazy story telling is right on. I'll even go one further - its lazy cinematic storytelling, pandering to an audience. It isn't treating the player as a participant.

For a AAA studio alone should be enough sound alarm bells that *this just is not working*.

 

[Woodsey]

Hello. I had a massive breakdown this evening and my head is thumping and I cried and cried. The reason for this breakdown was a horrible thing in the past. Take a look, Tomb Raider. This is what happens? ?When horrible things happen. Not strong, interesting game characters. Broken and terrified and awful evenings like this. There. I said it. Please Retweet that. All these four tweets. The industry needs to know what really happens as a result of stuff like this. #tombraider

(Source.) [https://twitter.com/notquitereal/status/213028158302199808]

You are wrong, Susan. You are very, very wrong. The desire to write a strong female character does not give one free reins to make a traumatic, horrible thing part of your story. You are essentially saying 'well, rape sucks for those people who got raped, but I want my game with a cool character!' Your priorities are misguided. Do not attempt to defend a horrible thing, even if you think the horrible thing was not meant in earnest, because that's how we get used to horrible things.

I'll add that it's obvious from the internet reaction that the people who created that game never tried to talk to a rape victim and probably think trigger warning is something you shout on the shooting range. I don't think video games can't portray rape. I think the modern games industry can't.

First: there's no rape. The guy gets his nuts kicked in about 2 seconds after he puts his hand on her. Perhaps someone needs to Tweet that back.

Second: rape is terrible. That does not mean it's not a valid inclusion within a story (and remember that Tomb Raider doesn't actually have a rape scene). It's a form of peril. It's a particularly female form of peril, yes, but it's still a form of peril, and peril is used to advance and evolve characters.

That is perfectly legitimate.

Three: Does the person who wrote that Tweet protest every film with a rape scene? I watched The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo recently (American version) and that has the nastiest fucking rape scene I've ever seen - that doesn't make it wrong. It's necessary to the characters advancement.

Four: 'I don't think video games can't portray rape. I think the modern games industry can't.'
Well, again, it's not - and second, if no one tries to breach the subject for fear of being shot down before they've even released the game, then it'll never be done. And that's shit, because games have enough going against them that means they can't be treated with the seriousness of films or novels already.

Sometimes things have to be fucked up before they can start being done right. Like, y'know, good characters.

Instead, people seem to be upset over the fact that Lara has gone from confident badass chick to weakling damsel-in-distress-ish who needs male protection (because men are the target demo). On top of that, in order to further "humanize" her, they're going to throw the ever-present, implied threat of rape out there and surround her with it at every turn.

And you got that from... where, exactly? There is one scene where I guy begins to touch her before getting his nuts crushed. That is all we know about.

As for your point about using rape to humanise her more than bullets and whatever else... well, duh. Physical threat is something far more relatable than gun fights - partly because we're all desensitised to gunfights in games, even when they are made scrappy and messy, and partly because it's a very 'distant' sort of danger. Oh, and then partly because most of us won't have been shot at by 5 people at once.

'people seem to be upset over the fact that Lara has gone from confident badass chick to weakling damsel-in-distress-ish'

It's a reboot origin-story, 'those people' are being ridiculous. As for the 'male protection' side of things: let's look at the (undoubtedly selective) quoting from Kotaku:

'When people play Lara, they don't really project themselves into the character... They're more like 'I want to protect her.' There's this sort of dynamic of 'I'm going to this adventure with her and trying to protect her.'

Now, I don't know about you, but to me that first bit reads like an acknowledgement of what happens when male players are playing a third-person game with a completely inexperiecened female character. More widely, it acknowledges the fact that people in general are not immersed into a character they're playing in third-person.

Either way, you don't identify with the character in the same way, and so you're looking at your experience with the character from an outside perspective. Saying that it's going to invoke a protectionist-side in people (and even specifically men) is just acknowledging human nature when you see someone struggling in a situation which you can 'help' them out of. It's further kicked in by the fact that we are players, we have control, we can turn events around, and at the start of the game she is in serious fucking trouble.

 

[freaper]

(I'm using your comment as a jumping board)

The negativity surrounding Rosenberg's comment exists, at least as far as I'm concerned, because he claims that we, somehow, cannot project ourselves into the character, but that we (the white/male/15-25yo demographic) only want to "protect" Lara. I can't speak for anyone else, but if I invest several hours playing a game I'll end up identifying with it's protagonist most of the time, despite them being of a different gender, race, sexuality, what have you.

So not only does Rosenberg's line just feel condescending (you guys can't muster the empathy to identify yourself with a human being in pain) but it's also plain sexist (you boys can't identify yourself with a girl, so naturally you can only want to protect her). Which IMHO is absolute bullshit.

On the subject of the rape scene: it seems, to me, unlikely that none of those thugs, who were all hiding on that island, away from any female contact they might have had back home, would not have made any advances at Lara, a young and beautiful girl. Such is the nature of the beast, and rape is a real issue. It should not, under any circumstance be hidden behind taboos. If it has to be tackled, why not in a game, where the player can empathize with the protagonist?

Which ties neatly back in with what I said at the start: if the player can't identify him/herself with Lara, you can't tackle rape as a problem, because it wouldn't be an issue for you, the third person.

My 2 cents.

 

[Moffman]

good to get a female opinion, every other article I've read on this is males desperately trying to show how unchauvinistic they are, it all well and good us men trying to predict what females think about something, but we'll never get it right. Just as women will not be able to fully understand the male point of view either

 

[Moffman]

And yes the comments made along with the trailer were bloody stupid.

 

[Alterego-X]

The negativity surrounding Rosenberg's comment exists, at least as far as I'm concerned, because he claims that we, somehow, cannot project ourselves into the character, but that we (the white/male/15-25yo demographic) only want to "protect" Lara.

Except that he didn't actually say any of that.

First of all, he was explicitly descibing changes in THIS installment, with the new Lara, that implies that he isn't talking about female characters in general, (after all, he believes that people *DID* identify with the old Lara), but about a specific angle that they are trying with this one game. It's not that you *couldn't* identify with her, but that in this specific installment, they *want you* to empathize with her as a different person, instead of just identifying with her.

He also said in the same interview: "The ability to see her as a human is even more enticing to me than the more sexualized version of yesteryear"

Also, there wasn't a single reference to MALE players wanting to protect her, only *people* or *players*. Why couldn't a girl feel protective about a girl in pain?

Which ties neatly back in with what I said at the start: if the player can't identify him/herself with Lara, you can't tackle rape as a problem, because it wouldn't be an issue for you, the third person.

If you would see someone getting raped IRL, it wouldn't be an issu for you if you are only a third person witnessing it?

Identify=/=empathise.

 

[Ariseishirou]

My take on this is that we should wait and see. Don't presume guilt until innocence is proven! It's supposed to be the other way around. Sure, rape-as-backstory is an overused trope, especially when it comes to female characters, but they could pull it off sensitively and realistically, I think.

I mean if someone had told me that in F.E.A.R. 2 (SPOILER) Becket gets raped by Alma (SPOILER) before I'd played the game, I would have had serious reservations, too. F/M rape is often treated as a joke, or blown off with a pithy "men can't be raped", or shown to be hot and sexy. But just because that common happens doesn't mean that's what Monolith was going to do - and luckily, they didn't. It was never a joke, it was horrifying. And Becket was clearly pretty fucking distraught. I was impressed by how well it was handled.

So give them a chance!

 

[maninahat]

Great article and I think everyone who has reservations about the game because of the scene in the trailer should read this.

It's nice to see that some developer at least is making an attempt to make a female character, albeit a rather famous one, fight for herself when shit hits the fan and become stronger for it. Probably why I love Heather Mason and Jade as much as I do, but it's cool how CD is trying to make Lara relatable.

I hope they don't screw this up, but points for trying.

The issue, I suppose, is that it is alarmingly common for origin stories to feature a woman being half-raped. The implicit suggestion is that a young female hero needs to be violated before she can evolve into a badass; something which tends not to happen with most male protagonists. For guys, being an adventurous, tough hero comes naturally. For a girl, they have to be forced into it. I understand where the makers are coming from - they want to show a strong willed individual who has overcome great odds and survive real threats. Unfortunately though, the prevalence of this arc leaves some to come away with a different message; that women can't get their tough girl badge without a sexual assault badge.

Interestingly, it effects male characters in a different way - a male hero isn't a hero until he gets a scene where he saves a beautiful woman from a gang of roving street rapists. Lord knows where all these street rapists materialise from. Are they just waiting there for a sexy lady to pass down the dark alley, or is it always a coincidence?

 

[subtlefuge]

Too many people I disagree with in the comments section to bother replying to them all. I just have a few observations:

1. You can't complain about an implied threat of rape scene that is clearly not in any way sensual. A few bad camera angles and some slightly different reactions would have made this awful. As is, it plays into the over-arching theme of the trailer...

2. External adversity vs. internal fortitude. I felt uncomfortable watching the trailer for the first time, but at least I felt something. She gets beaten bloody, tons of times. Not only does she get back up after it, she perseveres in spite of the internal conflict and doubt that she has.

3. Similarities: It's crazy how much they want this game to be like the opening scene of Uncharted 2. I've played through the entirety of all 3 Uncharted games, and I feel like I have a better connection to the Lara Croft featured in the trailer than any character in that series, especially Nathan Drake.

4. The bow. Being shipwrecked on an island with a bunch of sadistic criminals and using a makeshift bow for both survival and as a weapon is easily DC's jolly Green Archer's story, to the point of near plagiarism. However, I'm betting on it being a cash in on bow-fever caused by the Hunger Games.

 

[Susan Arendt]

Get Back Up

Another way to look at the controversial Tomb Raider trailer.

Read Full Article

I agree so much with this article, although there is one point that I don't and that is the point about if you don't feel emotions for her then you're not a decent human being. Perhaps I am in the minority here but I watched the trailer and I never looked at Lara as in trouble like that, I have separated what is real and what is fiction and I didn't feel any sympathy for her.
Does that make me a bad human being?

I do however feel quite compelled when I see her getting up every time, it's a strange reversal from no concern of the injury but I want to applaud as it goes on and on.
I think part of me finds the lack of perfection appealing, frankly I'm sick of video games who have their heroes in dire straights and they don't look worse for wear at all. The image of Lara falling down a cliff took me aback for a second, I thought to myself that had this been the old TR then she would have been sliding down that gradient instead of tumbling.
To me this is trailer is more inspiring than anything I have ever seen from the video games industry, Lara is human.

I never meant to imply that you weren't a decent person if you weren't troubled by the trailer. I was just trying to counter this notion that if people were uncomfortable, that therefore meant the trailer was in some way wrong. It's ok to feel uncomfortable when you're watching something unpleasant...that's kind of the point. Not everyone gets like that, of course - some people cry at movies, others don't. So, no, I don't think you're a bad person if you weren't squirming every time she got hurt.

 

[veloper]

Great article and I think everyone who has reservations about the game because of the scene in the trailer should read this.

It's nice to see that some developer at least is making an attempt to make a female character, albeit a rather famous one, fight for herself when shit hits the fan and become stronger for it. Probably why I love Heather Mason and Jade as much as I do, but it's cool how CD is trying to make Lara relatable.

I hope they don't screw this up, but points for trying.

The issue, I suppose, is that it is alarmingly common for origin stories to feature a woman being half-raped. The implicit suggestion is that a young female hero needs to be violated before she can evolve into a badass; something which tends not to happen with most male protagonists. For guys, being an adventurous, tough hero comes naturally. For a girl, they have to be forced into it. I understand where the makers are coming from - they want to show a strong willed individual who has overcome great odds and survive real threats. Unfortunately though, the prevalence of this arc leaves some to come away with a different message; that women can't get their tough girl badge without a sexual assault badge.

They will only come away with that message if they already think that way.

A more neutral observer will note that Lara must have already been fit and trained, to survive such an environment and the enemies in it.

The suggestion of Lara needing that abuse to grow, is yours. Mirroring that suggestion on every other woman in the world is also NOT the game.
There is not even any rape in that trailer and even the violence isn't painted in a gleeful sadistic manner.
It's all in our dirty minds already.

I reckon some gamers just WANT to be offended at things. I will admit that the discussions are entertaining.

 

[tzimize]

In short: Yep.

Also to OP: I completely agree.

Also in general: I wish people stopped being so fucking offended all the time. Or even better, BE offended, but know that its ok to be offended and that the offensive item still exists.

I wish game companies grew some fucking balls and learned that offending people might not be a bad thing. Dont offend for the sake of it of course...but as for the hinted rape...DO IT. Its an unusual thing to do, and its an uncomfortable thing to do...but that makes it interesting. Experiencing this situation in a game does not mean that anyone playing the game is supporting rape.

Goddamnit people can be so extremely dense.

I agree that the gaming community is becoming increasingly negative at the moment and it's just as bad having companies fall over themselves trying to fix it. It'd be nice is people just thought 'Hey we're getting a new Deus Ex, could be cool!' rather than 'My childhood will be ruined!' We're getting a bit Lucasy about everything at the moment.

Saying that I'd say no to the rape, it's just such a traumatic thing for people who know about it, that you'd need a really really good reason to justify including it, rather than another reason to show hardship

And yet, we shoot people in games ALL THE FUCKING TIME.

What about the veterans? Post traumatic stress disorder? What about victims of car accidents, should we not make GTA?

I utterly fail to see how a hinted rape can be worse than straight up KILLING people in a game. Please, enlighten me. This is what I was talking about in my last post. The density.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

You know, this makes a lot of sense. I am still in the "wait and see" party, but thank you for making me feel much better about the whole thing.

From what I have seen of the game so far, your description has pretty much been right on the mark, and it is a good thing. I don't think I could have seen this myself.

Thank you for keeping me humble.

 

[maninahat]

snip

The issue, I suppose, is that it is alarmingly common for origin stories to feature a woman being half-raped. The implicit suggestion is that a young female hero needs to be violated before she can evolve into a badass; something which tends not to happen with most male protagonists. For guys, being an adventurous, tough hero comes naturally. For a girl, they have to be forced into it. I understand where the makers are coming from - they want to show a strong willed individual who has overcome great odds and survive real threats. Unfortunately though, the prevalence of this arc leaves some to come away with a different message; that women can't get their tough girl badge without a sexual assault badge.

They will only come away with that message if they already think that way.

A more neutral observer will note that Lara must have already been fit and trained, to survive such an environment and the enemies in it.

The suggestion of Lara needing that abuse to grow, is yours. Mirroring that suggestion on every other woman in the world is also NOT the game.
There is not even any rape in that trailer and even the violence isn't painted in a gleeful sadistic manner.
It's all in our dirty minds already.

As far as I understand, this is an origin story. She's never killed before, probably never been in any real danger, or fired a weapon. Now they could have told the story without an attempted rape scene, and it still would be a tale of Lara overcoming adversity and peril. If it were a male protagonist's origin story, there wouldn't have been a rape scene. It wouldn't have been deemed "necessary" in his story.

now if this were an isolated story of one woman narrowly averting a rape, then people probably wouldn't have kicked up a fuss. But this game wasn't made in a vacuum. Comics, movies, games etc are always working in a sexual assault for a woman to fight off/be rescued from/be broken by. After a while, it just becomes a gratuitous plot device that exploits our gut responses. At best it is overdone and lazy, at worst it is exploitative and insensitive. The words of the Exec producer suggest Tomb Raider leans towards the latter.

I reckon some gamers just WANT to be offended at things. I will admit that the discussions are entertaining.

You should say that the next time you or someone you care about is offended. I'm sure it'll help.

 

[Kargathia]

Spoiler: snip

Rosenberg came off sounding like a condescending chauvinist who doesn't understand the first thing about the player's relationship with Lara.

Actually, I think the guy sounds like someone who completely understands a male player's relationship with a completely inexperienced, 21-year-old female character who they are playing as in the third-person.

Well, he did come off as a condescending chauvinist. Which is not to say I wouldn't be putting my money on him being right.

Personally I suspect there's a real danger of reading entirely too much in character actions here. When it comes down to it the trailer shows very little, and much of what I hear bandied around so far is largely projection, conjecture, and assumption.

Of course it's entirely possiblethat Crystal Dynamics will deliver a robust, yet subtly complex character, but on the whole I suspect we really shouldn't hold our collective breaths for it to be anything beyond a cardboard cutout of the stereotypical Break the Cutie [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BreakTheCutie] - even though that arguably would be a huge improvement over the current "characterisation" of being a pair of tits with a love for hidden treasure.

The trailer shows little in terms of what? We've already seen the entire attempted rape.

And again, there's nothing chauvinist about saying what type of reaction it's going to inspire in a certain group - there's nothing, "men are superior" about what he said or in that reaction to it. I can see it being viewed as a little condescending when he says it's like you're helping her, but it seems apparent he's just trying to iterate on the same point - he says it like three times in different ways.

And seriously, that Kotaku article was shit.

While the trailer certainly pushes expectations quite heavily in a certain direction, it doesn't quite show enough to make definitive statements on how Lara behaves throughout it. (Nor should it; it's a trailer, not an academic dissection)

And as I apparently wasn't clear on it: he certainly has a point, and in all likelihood it's a valid design perspective. The problem, however, is that this is a middle-aged male from a notoriously chauvinist industry, working on a classic sex symbol in gaming, that mentions players feeling something very akin to "hero saving damsel in distress".

He might mean well, but he's certainly planted himself in a minefield of knee-jerk reactions - and all precedence is heavily stacked against him.

Kotaku article? What article?

 

[maninahat]

In short: Yep.

Also to OP: I completely agree.

Also in general: I wish people stopped being so fucking offended all the time. Or even better, BE offended, but know that its ok to be offended and that the offensive item still exists.

I wish game companies grew some fucking balls and learned that offending people might not be a bad thing. Dont offend for the sake of it of course...but as for the hinted rape...DO IT. Its an unusual thing to do, and its an uncomfortable thing to do...but that makes it interesting. Experiencing this situation in a game does not mean that anyone playing the game is supporting rape.

Goddamnit people can be so extremely dense.

I agree that the gaming community is becoming increasingly negative at the moment and it's just as bad having companies fall over themselves trying to fix it. It'd be nice is people just thought 'Hey we're getting a new Deus Ex, could be cool!' rather than 'My childhood will be ruined!' We're getting a bit Lucasy about everything at the moment.

Saying that I'd say no to the rape, it's just such a traumatic thing for people who know about it, that you'd need a really really good reason to justify including it, rather than another reason to show hardship

And yet, we shoot people in games ALL THE FUCKING TIME.

What about the veterans? Post traumatic stress disorder? What about victims of car accidents, should we not make GTA?

I utterly fail to see how a hinted rape can be worse than straight up KILLING people in a game. Please, enlighten me. This is what I was talking about in my last post. The density.

Rape is considered an especially unpleasant crime, and it is specifically due to popular media that rape often seems worse than murder. In games, movies etc, killings are often quick and clean. A faceless mook is shot, he drops to the ground instantly and he dies with nothing more than a yelp or a grunt. Though killing should be the worst possible thing, it is often depicted as sanitised, instantaneous, and if it was a henchman's death, inconsequencial. Compare that to depictions of rape or torture, which requires a display of agony, fear and prolongued suffering. There is no wonder why people respond more harshly to rape.

Also, the argument that murder is worse than rape does not excuse depictions of rape. If anything, all you are arguing is that we should condemn depictions of murder as well. Perhaps we should.

 

[Eric the Orange]

I'm glad someone agrees with my view that this Lara is a strong if not stronger than her future counterpart. In that she is stronger in will, not physical capability in training. It's not meant to be getting off on seeing a young women get hurt, or wanting her to get "rescued". It's about the strength of will and tenacity of being thrust into this unbelievably harsh situation and overcoming it.