Getting Furious Over "Girlfriend Mode"

[Moonlight Butterfly]

In the minds of many, Hemingway was proving the existence of the casual sexism that is endemic in videogame development and culture by playing off the tired stereotype that women either don't play or are bad at shooters.

That's not a sexist, tired stereotype, that is a fact. All gamer-girls I know don't play shooters. Those who do, may be good at them, I don't know because I have never seen one. But it is known that males have a better spacial sense than females on average.

Spoiler: I've never seen a lemur before, people have talked about them but I dont think lemurs exist.

I play tons of shooters. According to my Raptr it's my most played Genre...
There you go! You have met one, happy now?

 

[Num1d1um]

Political correctness gone fucking mad.

Well as long as everything is catered to you I guess it's all okay.

They were basically saying all women who play games are idiots and only play because their boyfriend is playing.

That's bloody stupid.

Except that's not what they were saying.

 

[Num1d1um]

In the minds of many, Hemingway was proving the existence of the casual sexism that is endemic in videogame development and culture by playing off the tired stereotype that women either don't play or are bad at shooters.

That's not a sexist, tired stereotype, that is a fact. All gamer-girls I know don't play shooters. Those who do, may be good at them, I don't know because I have never seen one. But it is known that males have a better spacial sense than females on average.

Spoiler: I've never seen a lemur before, people have talked about them but I dont think lemurs exist.

I play tons of shooters. According to my Raptr it's my most played Genre...
There you go! You have met one, happy now?

It's always nice when people provide the evidence for their point that they condemn when an opponent brings it. Delicious hypocrisy.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

In the minds of many, Hemingway was proving the existence of the casual sexism that is endemic in videogame development and culture by playing off the tired stereotype that women either don't play or are bad at shooters.

That's not a sexist, tired stereotype, that is a fact. All gamer-girls I know don't play shooters. Those who do, may be good at them, I don't know because I have never seen one. But it is known that males have a better spacial sense than females on average.

Spoiler: I've never seen a lemur before, people have talked about them but I dont think lemurs exist.

I play tons of shooters. According to my Raptr it's my most played Genre...
There you go! You have met one, happy now?

It's always nice when people provide the evidence for their point that they condemn when an opponent brings it. Delicious hypocrisy.

My raptr is on my profile page, knock yourself out.

But lemurs exist. Honest.

see.

 

[Num1d1um]

In the minds of many, Hemingway was proving the existence of the casual sexism that is endemic in videogame development and culture by playing off the tired stereotype that women either don't play or are bad at shooters.

That's not a sexist, tired stereotype, that is a fact. All gamer-girls I know don't play shooters. Those who do, may be good at them, I don't know because I have never seen one. But it is known that males have a better spacial sense than females on average.

Spoiler: I've never seen a lemur before, people have talked about them but I dont think lemurs exist.

I play tons of shooters. According to my Raptr it's my most played Genre...
There you go! You have met one, happy now?

It's always nice when people provide the evidence for their point that they condemn when an opponent brings it. Delicious hypocrisy.

My raptr is on my profile page, knock yourself out.

But lemurs exist. Honest.

You didn't even understand what I was saying, bravo. It's not about whether or not you actually play a lot of FPS. It's about the fact that you're countering anecdotes with anecdotes.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

Err I did understand that. That's why I gave actual proof hence me saying my raptr is on my profile, that's not an anecdote...it's proof :|

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

I'm not a girl but honestly, this 'girlfriend mode' sounds appealing to me. I'm one of those people who pick the easiest mode in shooters because I find the shooting the most boring part of the game. Easier mode means I get shot less and get to move on with the game faster. And unlike real puzzles - you know, like ones where you actually need to use your brain - it's not like being able to move your mouse accurately and quickly to click on a target is a skill I cherish or consider the least bit important.

So if I was a girl I'd consider it a compliment that people think my entire sex sucks at shooters.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I'm not a girl but honestly, this 'girlfriend mode' sounds appealing to me. I'm one of those people who pick the easiest mode in shooters because I find the shooting the most boring part of the game. Easier mode means I get shot less and get to move on with the game faster. And unlike real puzzles - you know, like ones where you actually need to use your brain - it's not like being able to move your mouse accurately and quickly to click on a target is a skill I cherish or consider the least bit important.

I don't think anyone is knocking the actual idea of the mode just if it was called 'girlfriend mode' which has some nasty implications.

It's not called girlfriend mode and therefore the whole concept is fine by me.

 

[Num1d1um]

snip

Err I did understand that but I gave actual proof hence me saying my raptr is on my profile, that's not an anecdote...it's proof :|

.... do you know what an anecdote even is? This being an anecdote is not about its truth contingent, it's about its relevancy. When a guy says "I haven't met many female gamers", it's his experience as a single person. His single experience says absolutely nothing. When you counter with "I play games and I'm a girl", it's about your experience as a single person. It says absolutely nothing and is as irrelevant as him saying he doesn't know many female gamers. Whether or not your pull out your raptr profile, it's still about you alone. Your personal raptr profile represents nobody but yourself, so it's anecdotal. Regardless of whether you play a certain genre or not.

 

[The Lunatic]

Today I learned Hemmingway is the only person ever to imply something may or may not be useful in a situation wherein you wish to do something with your girlfriend and you should all be extremely offended by this.


Are you people serious?


Like, honestly, you're actually upset over this?

What next "Gifts for her" is offensive for it implies that women can't buy their own gifts?



It was a nick name for the skill tree, something which the development team could relate to.

Because, being a gamer, we're all familiar with the situation of having to bring somebody foreign to the media to play with us.


In this case, they used girlfriends as an example.

Is that really so hard to grasp?

There was no sinisterness to it, nothing snide or mean, it was just a guy who was used to being in more understanding company sharing an idea with the world, only to find the irrational and closed minded people completely ignore what a great idea this is and focus instead on the example the name demonstrates.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

Yeah but the fact is he was saying 'women don't play shooters because I haven't met any that do' which is the same as saying lemurs don't exist because I've never personally seen one.

The fact is, even if both of our stories are personal, at least mine is based in logic and fact...-.-

Clearly there is at least one woman who plays shooters. Because she's right here, and therefore, his initial statement is wrong.

 

[Num1d1um]

snip

Yeah but the fact is he was saying 'women don't play shooters because I haven't met any that do' which is the same as saying lemurs don't exist because I've never personally seen one.

The fact is, even if both of our stories are personal, at least mine is based in logic and fact...-.-

I just explained why it doesn't matter how true your story is. I'm pretty sure when someone says he's never met any female gamers, he's not lying. By saying that he isn't implying they don't exist. He's saying he hasn't met them.

He's not actually saying Lemurs don't exist because he hasn't seem them. That's what you're pretending he's saying so you can make fun of his statement. He's saying he hasn't seen any, so he presumes they're rare.

Don't twist what people are saying or pretend they imply something they don't just so you have an easier time arguing on the internet.

 

[Olas]

In the minds of many, Hemingway was proving the existence of the casual sexism that is endemic in videogame development and culture by playing off the tired stereotype that women either don't play or are bad at shooters.

That's not a sexist, tired stereotype, that is a fact. All gamer-girls I know don't play shooters. Those who do, may be good at them, I don't know because I have never seen one. But it is known that males have a better spacial sense than females on average.

I'm sorry but you're just super fucking wrong.

Almost all the original "emprical evidence" suggesting differences in cognitive ability between males and females has been [a href="http://phys.org/news/2011-08-disputes-notion-men-spatial-women.html"]highly contested[/a] numerous times in the last few decades. In some visual tests women seem to do better, sometimes worse, but never with any reliable consistency. On top of that when differences are spotted it is essentially impossible to determine what is biological and what is cultural. By all indications women are just as good as men in mathematics and most related fields.

Now that is "a fact".

 

[Landshark1]

snip

Err I did understand that but I gave actual proof hence me saying my raptr is on my profile, that's not an anecdote...it's proof :|

.... do you know what an anecdote even is? This being an anecdote is not about its truth contingent, it's about its relevancy. When a guy says "I haven't met many female gamers", it's his experience as a single person. His single experience says absolutely nothing. When you counter with "I play games and I'm a girl", it's about your experience as a single person. It says absolutely nothing and is as irrelevant as him saying he doesn't know many female gamers. Whether or not your pull out your raptr profile, it's still about you alone. Your personal raptr profile represents nobody but yourself, so it's anecdotal. Regardless of whether you play a certain genre or not.

While we both agree that circumstantial evidence is never a solid foundation for the start of an argument, couldn't it be argued that, when someone else presents their own personal experiences as irrefutable proof of their position, countering that position with your own personal experiences is a good way to prove that their personal experiences mean absolutely nothing?

 

[Num1d1um]

snip

snip

While we both agree that circumstantial evidence is never a solid foundation for the start of an argument, couldn't it be argued that, when someone else presents their own personal experiences as irrefutable proof of their position, countering that position with your own personal experiences is a good way to prove that their personal experiences mean absolutely nothing?

If you think that countering bad arguments with bad arguments is good debating, sure. The thing is just, it's not. It's the most lazy and intellectually bankrupt way of doing it. It's akin to answering an insult like "I f-ed your mom" with "well I f-ed yours twice". It's cheap, reflects poorly on you and you really shouldn't do it unless you have absolutely no other way of demonstrating the weakness of an argument. Note also that this often leads to more or less intentional strawmen argument and misrepresentations of what the opposition said, mainly because it's always easier to make fun of something you've spun a little to sound more asenine than it originally did. Considering how uptight this forums seems to me, I'd expect more from the people here than that.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

Nooo pretty sure he was saying he's never met any female gamers who don't play shooters and therefore implying that they are correct in assuming don't women play or enjoy shooters... I didn't twist what he was saying at all.

-.-

 

[Fiery Killer]

Political correctness gone fucking mad.

They were basically saying all women who play games are idiots and only play because their boyfriend is playing.

No. That is not what they were saying. At all.

I've never actually played Borderlands, but if I'm not mistaken isn't a bloody shooter kind of manly type of game? Seems like a place where a mode like that being called "Girlfriend mode" would be kind of humorous. If my girlfriend wanted to join, and I activated it, we would both laugh at the name.

Either way, it doesn't insult women's ability to play games, at all. Let's see it in this context. I'm half way through Borderlands and my girlfriend wants to give it a shot. My girlfriend has actually played more than her fair share of shooters and knows how to handle one. But that doesn't mean she knows how to play Borderlands. She doesn't know the specific mechanics of this game. This would put her at a disadvantage and she likely would not fare well.

That's something that could happen to ANYBODY. You can't throw anyone, no matter how much 'gaming' experience they have, in the middle of the game and expect them to do well enough to enjoy themselves. The girlfriend wanting to try is just a very classic example. Which is why I don't think it's offensive at all.

Either way, I'm very anti-censorship and believe they should be able to name it to whatever they want. They can name their hardest difficulty 'Jew Escape From Auschwitz' for all I care, if people wanted to take them down for it I would fully support them to go live with it. The game is rated M, it's meant for those 17 or older, it can be offensive as it wants. That's all I have to say.

 

[Num1d1um]

God damn it people. This is what he said:

"That's not a sexist, tired stereotype, that is a fact. All gamer-girls I know don't play shooters. Those who do, may be good at them, I don't know because I have never seen one. But it is known that males have a better spacial sense than females on average."

Notice how he says "All gamer-girls I know don't play shooters. Those who do, may be good at them, I don't know because I have never seen one.", NOT "All gamer-girls I know don't play shooters. Therefore there are no girls who play shooters."

It's not that hard to go back half a page, check what we're talking about and read it. If you think the above paragraph implies no women play shooters, you're doing the exact thing I said you do, but unconsciously. He's not saying that. You want him to be saying it.

 

[The Lunatic]

It's not that hard to go back half a page, check what we're talking about and read it. If you think the above paragraph implies no women play shooters, you're doing the exact thing I said you do, but unconsciously. He's not saying that. You want him to be saying it.

You're really expecting people who get mad at something being called "Girlfriend mode" to not be irrational and sensational when somebody says something?


This is kinda the problem, a lot of these people just don't read or understand what the original person is saying, which has been demonstrated right now and in the context to what the original debate is about.

 

[KrystelCandy]

God damn it people. This is what he said:

"That's not a sexist, tired stereotype, that is a fact. All gamer-girls I know don't play shooters. Those who do, may be good at them, I don't know because I have never seen one. But it is known that males have a better spacial sense than females on average."

Notice how he says "All gamer-girls I know don't play shooters. Those who do, may be good at them, I don't know because I have never seen one.", NOT "All gamer-girls I know don't play shooters. Therefore there are no girls who play shooters."

It's not that hard to go back half a page, check what we're talking about and read it. If you think the above paragraph implies no women play shooters, you're doing the exact thing I said you do, but unconsciously. He's not saying that. You want him to be saying it.

I made an account! Just for you!

Ahem...

That's not a sexist, tired stereotype, that is a fact. All gamer-girls I know don't play shooters. Those who do, may be good at them, I don't know because I have never seen one. But it is known that males have a better spacial sense than females on average.

Again... did you see the part you forgot to mention?

That's not a sexist, tired stereotype, that is a fact.

He then proceeds to use a personal anecdote that no girls he knows plays shooters. He then proceeds to treat the "good female shooter player base" as a mythical beast, who may or may not exist, as he himself has never met one and then backs up his claim using "evidence" that men are inherently superior in terms of spacial sense.

Yeah, no.

I play shooters mainly myself... mainly because most RPGs nowadays are awful, but still, and I can safely say I play better than alot of my friends, and even my last boyfriend. He sucked at games, and judging from the number of guys I've killed in CS, TF2, etc, lots of men suck at games.

I think we should call this mode "boyfriend mode" as the vast majority of male players I've met have been absolutely awful at shooters.

I wasn't personally offended by the girlfriend comment, I raised an eyebrow, said "really?" and moved on... what I'm interested in is the fact people are defending it. Whether the reaction is too far or not is irrelevant to me, I'm more flabbergasted in how people can just say "It's a-ok that he said it because it's TRUE!" And "women shouldn't complain, these games are meant for boys, just get a sense of humor." Yeah, I could point to many examples over the years of problems with this... but really, I shouldn't have to at this point.

Developer guy said something dumb, sure, some chuckled it off, some people got offended, sure, then people defended the original position and... what?