Getting More Women to Work in Games Is Easy

[Vivi22]

If you are a successful business... Why? will that increase sales? produce a better product? Will it reduce overhead? will it make the stock price go up? Will having more women in the company help produce a product that plays to your core demographic?

The trouble with not having as many women in the industry is that you're cutting yourself off from about 50% of your potential market, 50% of your potential hiring pool, 50% of the population which could fundamentally have different ideas about how to make games, different creative ideas, and ideas on how to reach more gamers and new demographics.

I I guess the answer to all of your questions is a simple, yes. Yes it really could improve all of those. Attracting more women doesn't mean that you never make games like Call of Duty that the frat house boys love so much. But finding a place for women in the industry is how you end up with companies like Thatgamecompany doing genuinely new things, and games like Portal.

If that last one doesn't blow away the question of "will that increase sales" then I don't know what will.

 

[T'Generalissimo]

Myth #1. Women Don't Want to Work in Games. Sampat quickly pointed out that statement was bullshots by citing survey information she gathered by speaking with the women she could find who were either employed in the games industry already or were seeking employment.

Wait, what? Sampat sought data about whether women want to work in games by conducting a survey of women who were working in games or wanted to work in games. People can see why that's completely nonsensical, right?

 

[Vivi22]

I'm honestly extremely tired of the whole gender war. In the Gaming/IT sector as a whole there is a lack of interest from females. People should stop blaming patriarchy for everything. They are polarizing the community even more. I'm not denying the fact that there are isolated cases where gender discrimination isn't involved, but it's really not that prevalent and overblown as people make it out to be.

Unless you're either in the industry or have done empirical research to prove your point, you have no basis for these statements.

And yes there's a lack of interest from females often. The question people need to be asking is why. I don't think for one second that it's because women will just never care about this stuff, and it's certainly not because they can't do it. In games at least, we do have to face the reality that the vast majority of games don't even acknowledge that women exist as a potential part of their audience, let alone try to appeal to them.

 

[webkilla]

From what I got out of the article then I found it quite reasonable - it didn't try to inflate the topic with the usual Sarkesian BS - it talked about industry bias in a way that I found plausible, and hey... the thing about "women might not even know they can work in Field X" applies not just to women, but everyone

If you had told me a year ago that I would now be looking for a job as a teacher I would have laughed in your face - but now... I am looking for a job as a teacher, because I've found teaching to be really fun.

 

[3ntropy775]

I'm honestly extremely tired of the whole gender war. In the Gaming/IT sector as a whole there is a lack of interest from females. People should stop blaming patriarchy for everything. They are polarizing the community even more. I'm not denying the fact that there are isolated cases where gender discrimination isn't involved, but it's really not that prevalent and overblown as people make it out to be.

Unless you're either in the industry or have done empirical research to prove your point, you have no basis for these statements.

And yes there's a lack of interest from females often. The question people need to be asking is why. I don't think for one second that it's because women will just never care about this stuff, and it's certainly not because they can't do it. In games at least, we do have to face the reality that the vast majority of games don't even acknowledge that women exist as a potential part of their audience, let alone try to appeal to them.

The whole article is riddled with baseless claims and assumptions. Where is the reference to her surveys she took or any other sources she got her statistics from. My statements are as valid as theirs by your merits. My point was that gender discrimination exists, but it's the exception to the norm. If it was as bad as they always claim then most women would not be employed at all. I take that you have empirical data backing up your post?

 

[IndomitableSam]

Women in gaming (or just tech) is an issue that no one can answer properly and everyone has issues with.

Yes, more and more women are getting into tech.

Yes, it's a boy's club. What big business in North America isn't full of rich old white guys and all the jackassery that comes with the mindset of people living in a world that isn't the real world?

Yes, there is less discrimination now, but it exists.

Yes, there should be a lot more women in tech these days - and we damn well tried. But a lot of us got shot down and we gave up. Some didn't and they are now doing what they love. The majority of the men they work with are fine with it. Some aren't.

Discrimination exists, people. Want an example of why women my age (30) aren't in tech much? Keep in mind this is the late 90's, early 00's in Canada in a capital, progressive city.

In Junior High girls were still expected to take cooking and sewing classes, while the boys took woodworking and a mini engineering class. My mother literally had to go down to the school and have a screaming match with the WOMAN principal because they refused to let my sister take the engineering course. In High School I signed up for a computer science course, alongside my sister. We were the only girls in the class. The teacher helped everyone in the class but us. When time for the end of term project came around, I fumbled my way through, abut got stuck on some code (It was if/then basic stuff - make a little game where you hit a button and players run around a baseball field). I called the teacher over, he sat down, looked at is, and said (I quote, because I remember the moment clearly) "Well, you're screwed." and got up and walked away.

My cousin also founded a VGX company. He hired people in and trained them without any experience - including my cousin who was the same age. We asked him over and over again if he could take us on as well, but he always refused. Even as he got bigger and bigger in the city the only women worked PR and reception.

Sexism is still rampant. It's getting better, but for someone my age, we grew up still being told to conform to traditional gender roles. Teachers and people of influence were sexist. We got beaten down a lot.

Some people fought back and got into tech. I'm put to shame by them because I stopped fighting. I went back to school in my 20's and now have a lot of tech education, but it's not programming.

It happened. It's still happening, but not nearly as much.

However, when I was teaching (only a couple years ago), sometimes girls were encouraged to go into tech... but if one of them said video games, they were talked down to. Told to go into the big techs, like engineering or biotech or that kind of thing. It made me really angry. I actually got in trouble from admin for telling girls to go into trades and programming and such instead of going to university for traditional degrees.

The world is still kind of backwards. It knows it's backwards now, and it's changing, but it's going to take time and it's going to take hard work from everyone. It's just still not fair that women have to work harder. But that ill change too.

We didn't get to wear pants in a day, and everyone else has had much more to overcome, but it will all come with time and hard work and acceptance.

 

[Genocidicles]

You know, one reason why women might not want to work in games might be because when someone says "If your culture makes women feel uncomfortable you might have a problem." the response is "But making women not feel uncomfortable sucks all the fun out of everything!"

Well it would suck the fun out of everything.

It would turn the workplace into a boring, sterile environment where people are always stepping on eggshells, worrying about being sent to sensitivity training or even fired if they so much as crack a joke.

It's not exactly new to the tech industry. What about 'Donglegate'? A couple of guys, joking amongst themselves about the silliness of the word 'dongle', and one of them gets fired because some proud womyn of colour considered their lame jokes sexually oppressive and reported them.

 

[Mister Chippy]

You know, one reason why women might not want to work in games might be because when someone says "If your culture makes women feel uncomfortable you might have a problem." the response is "But making women not feel uncomfortable sucks all the fun out of everything!"

Well it would suck the fun out of everything.

It would turn the workplace into a boring, sterile environment where people are always stepping on eggshells, worrying about being sent to sensitivity training or even fired if they so much as crack a joke.

It's not exactly new to the tech industry. What about 'Donglegate'? A couple of guys, joking amongst themselves about the silliness of the word 'dongle', and one of them gets fired because some proud womyn of colour considered their lame jokes sexually oppressive and reported them.

Surprisingly, I never seem to have any problem not offending anybody. It's not something I have to try particularly hard to do either. It just comes down to treating everyone exactly like I treat everyone else. Yes, there are assholes of all genders and colors, but that's not BECAUSE they're of a certain gender or color, its because they're ASSHOLES. Making an environment that women feel comfortable in isn't tricky, women aren't like pieces of porcelain that have their feelings hurt at the drop of a hat. It's assumptions like that, or that assuming all women are like that ass who got people fired for making innocent jokes, that make women feel uncomfortable.

 

[Eternal_Lament]

If you are a successful business... Why? will that increase sales? produce a better product? Will it reduce overhead? will it make the stock price go up? Will having more women in the company help produce a product that plays to your core demographic?

The trouble with not having as many women in the industry is that you're cutting yourself off from about 50% of your potential market, 50% of your potential hiring pool, 50% of the population which could fundamentally have different ideas about how to make games, different creative ideas, and ideas on how to reach more gamers and new demographics.

The problem with that type of argument is that it suggests that no woman would buy a game unless a woman worked on it, and the reverse, that no man would buy a game unless a man worked on it. Clearly this isn't the case, as we've had several games whose developers were a single gender (whether a team or an independent passion project) that still sold to both genders. Does having women on your team help? It can, and if you're end goal is to specifically reach that type of audience then having someone on board can definitely highlight things you've missed. But at the end of the day, if a company is still making quite a high profit with their current team make-up, there's no intrinsic reason why to higher a female developer over a male one. It should always come down to skill and expertise, as that's what will eventually drive more individuals, men and women, to get into the games industry: well-made and engaging games. If the female developer is more skilled, hire her. If the male developer is more skilled, hire him.

In regards to the article:

Her belief seems to be that hiring practices are keeping women out of the games industry, while everything we've seen so far suggests the issue is coming from a lack of interest. In general, the types of courses and programs that deal with game design or development are predominantly male in the first place, and as a result, there are definitely going to be more male applicants than female applicants once their schooling is done. To me, if you really want women in the games industry, you have to make the education seem appealing so more women are likely to look into it. Ultimately this is an issue that will be solved not through changing hiring or company practices but by raising interest in the field.

 

[Susan Arendt]

"If you can't find women who can fit into culture, your company culture might suck,"

Because that will make women welcome in the workplace eh?

Sucking all the fun out of everything wont exactly endear the workplace to the women suddenly working there.

So "sucking all the fun out of everything" is what you consider necessary to make the workplace welcoming to women?

Says quite a lot right there of what you think about women.

 

[3ntropy775]

Saying they suck the fun out of everything is a sweeping statement I would say. In our workplace that actually happened, but they were too old hags who joined the partnership so it was to be expected. The younger generation women can be just as fun as any male employee, just as there are men who can suck the fun out of a workplace as well.

The argument however is regarding gender discrimination.

 

[the December King]

I'm sorry, but if a woman applied for a position at my small company, and I was hiring, and she met my criteria...

I'd hire her. That's all there is to it. Full stop. Welcome to the team.

However...I would be a tiny bit frustrated, I suspect, because I'm sure my colleagues and I would have to curb some of the more risque jokes. This might seem petty, but hear me out. I grew up working in an industry that also is almost entirely the lads (digital FX/compositing), and consequently there has to be a concession allowed that our shennanigans might not be at a constant gender neutral. I'm not saying that I necessarily make sexist jokes- I'd rather not get into the nature of the humour itself. But I'll bet that we'll have to think before we make future cracks and japes and such, and honestly that will make the office environment change. It could introduce a guarded aspect that might essentially kill some level of the enjoyment of the job.

Again, I would never deny a woman a chance at a job in the industry she is interested in, simply because I was a little reserved at work after her appearance. But I could potentially resent that need for reservation. I can see that possibility, and there it is.

EDIT: I want to stress that I think that this is a minor, minor issue. Just thinking out loud about my own possible experiences, really.

 

[Genocidicles]

So "sucking all the fun out of everything" is what you consider necessary to make the workplace welcoming to women?

Says quite a lot right there of what you think about women.

I don't think it's necessary, but a lot of the people campaigning to get more women in tech fields certainly do.

People like Adria Richards, getting people fired for something as minor as telling a joke, all in the name of making the workplace more welcoming for women.

Making an environment that women feel comfortable in isn't tricky, women aren't like pieces of porcelain that have their feelings hurt at the drop of a hat. It's assumptions like that, or that assuming all women are like that ass who got people fired for making innocent jokes, that make women feel uncomfortable.

You're probably right, but the assholes have the loudest voices. So if the companies listen to anyone, it will be the assholes wanting to ban jokes that might be considered risqué, regardless of how most of the women in the workforce feel about them.

 

[Robert Marrs]

You know, one reason why women might not want to work in games might be because when someone says "If your culture makes women feel uncomfortable you might have a problem." the response is "But making women not feel uncomfortable sucks all the fun out of everything!"

Well it would suck the fun out of everything.

It would turn the workplace into a boring, sterile environment where people are always stepping on eggshells, worrying about being sent to sensitivity training or even fired if they so much as crack a joke.

It's not exactly new to the tech industry. What about 'Donglegate'? A couple of guys, joking amongst themselves about the silliness of the word 'dongle', and one of them gets fired because some proud womyn of colour considered their lame jokes sexually oppressive and reported them.

I have to co-sign this. Honestly I think that all this pushing to try and get women into tech is only going to make employers more wary of hiring women. It seems to cause more drama than anything. Lets just paint a picture here. You run a tech company comprised almost entirely of men. The people who work there are great at there jobs but a little rough around the edges socially. Now someone comes in and tells you that its not ok for you to have a majority of men working at your business and that you have to hire more women. Chances are you would never have a problem hiring whoever is the most qualified for whatever position you are trying to fill but not you have a quota to meet that says you have to hire someone because of what is between their legs as opposed to what is on their resume.

It creates distrust and disdain from your current employees who will constantly questioning why the people who got hired were hired. It disrupts your business from so many angles not least of which is the "stepping on eggshells" thing you mentioned. All of this considered I would say campaigning and complaining in regards to women in IT does more harm than good. The women who are actually interested will continue to do what they do and the women who are not will continue to seek other ventures. Employers will continue to hire whoever is best suited for the job and employees won't have to worry about getting passed up by someone who is less qualified to meet some invisible equal standard.

 

[Robert Marrs]

"If you can't find women who can fit into culture, your company culture might suck,"

Because that will make women welcome in the workplace eh?

Sucking all the fun out of everything wont exactly endear the workplace to the women suddenly working there.

So "sucking all the fun out of everything" is what you consider necessary to make the workplace welcoming to women?

Says quite a lot right there of what you think about women.

The workplace does not need to be more accommodating to anyone. Unless its a safety issue of course. That is the problem with today's world. Everyone expects things to change for them. You don't go into the interview and start making demands on how they need to make you happy or more comfortable. I wouldn't expect any female dominated work position to make changes for me if I applied, I would come prepared to change for the job. You act accordingly to job or position you have and if you feel like changes need to made because YOU don't feel comfortable but everyone else does YOU are the problem. If women don't feel comfortable working in IT for any reason they need to either change or find a new subject. Not come in and start pointing fingers trying to disrupt what has been successfully working for years.

Lets look at those two women who just successfully sued the police department in the UK. They sued because the guns were to big for their hands and won. They actually won. Instead of saying kindly go find other work if you can't do the job they had to spend thousands to make smaller guns available. Political correctness is going way to far. Can you do the job or not and if you can do it without complaining.

 

[3ntropy775]

"If you can't find women who can fit into culture, your company culture might suck,"

Because that will make women welcome in the workplace eh?

Sucking all the fun out of everything wont exactly endear the workplace to the women suddenly working there.

So "sucking all the fun out of everything" is what you consider necessary to make the workplace welcoming to women?

Says quite a lot right there of what you think about women.

The workplace does not need to be more accommodating to anyone. Unless its a safety issue of course. That is the problem with today's world. Everyone expects things to change for them. You don't go into the interview and start making demands on how they need to make you happy or more comfortable. I wouldn't expect any female dominated work position to make changes for me if I applied, I would come prepared to change for the job. You act accordingly to job or position you have and if you feel like changes need to made because YOU don't feel comfortable but everyone else does YOU are the problem. If women don't feel comfortable working in IT for any reason they need to either change or find a new subject. Not come in and start pointing fingers trying to disrupt what has been successfully working for years.

Lets look at those two women who just successfully sued the police department in the UK. They sued because the guns were to big for their hands and won. They actually won. Instead of saying kindly go find other work if you can't do the job they had to spend thousands to make smaller guns available. Political correctness is going way to far. Can you do the job or not and if you can do it without complaining.

Why does everyone say women will suck the fun out of everything like it's a fact? I will agree that women have unrealistic demands regarding the workplace and that everything should be crafted to their expectations, but that doesn't make them boring. They might be demanding, but that doesn't necessarily make them boring.

 

[ms_sunlight]

People like Adria Richards, getting people fired for something as minor as telling a joke, all in the name of making the workplace more welcoming for women.

Point of information: Adria Richards didn't get anyone fired. All she did was comment on what she saw; the behaviour itself was what got those guys fired. Oh, and by the way she lost her job too.

You have always, always been able to get fired for making a joke; it's called "bringing the organisation into disrepute". If you behave like an idiot when out in public representing your company they can discipline you for it, and that applies no matter what sector you work in.

Making a company not hostile to women isn't difficult. Almost every sector manages it. Even the tech sector manages it in some places.

 

[TheMadDoctorsCat]

I get it I'm a white male therefore everything wrong with the world.

Eh?

Well it would suck the fun out of everything.

Eh?

Women in gaming (or just tech) is an issue that no one can answer properly and everyone has issues with.

Eh?

Remember, kids: Fuck hard work! Just demand that the work become softer or else you won't do it! That will not in any way go wrong at all. Definitely not.

Eh?

So what you are saying is that women have the ability to work in the "game" business but they ether don't know that they can or "invisible bias" (PATRIARCHY!) keeps them out.

"Having equal gender representation in the games industry is easy, you just have to change everything about your company."

Eh?

i don't know why this is even a problem i though the whole point of a business is not hiring an equal amount of men and women but to hire the best people for the job

Eh? Also...

but feminist would most likely want it all women

Eh?

I work in a place where the male / female ratio is about 50/50. As a white male myself, I don't think this sucks the fun out of anything, is an issue that anybody has a problem with, or that anybody there claims that hard work shouldn't be rewarded. I don't think Sampat is claiming that any of this is / would be the case with the gaming industry either.

1) Nobody suggested that white males are "the problem" in this case (although I did get a warning from the mods for calling a fictional character, made up by a guy who was satirically attacking white males, a "jerk". Moving on...) A lot of white males, myself included, would like to see more variety and points of view in videogames development as well as fandom.

2) Suck the fun out of everything? Really? As I said above, I work in a place that has about a 50/50 gender split (which is not that uncommon nowadays in most areas). I don't see any problem with fun suckage.

3) I agree that it's an issue. It's not one that many people have a problem with, although I guess that doesn't come through in this thread. If you're a woman looking to get a tech job in the gaming sphere, and find that you're discouraged from doing so for whatever reason, THEN it's a problem. Why should some people have to work twice as hard to get a job as other people? That seems to be what's claimed here. I can't say how accurate it is without looking at it in a great more detail than the article gives, but it sure as hell wouldn't surprise me.

4) Who has a problem with hard work being rewarded? Unless I've misread the article, Sampat's point is that women have to work more than men for the same reward. Again, can't say how true this is without looking at the subject in more detail; but if it IS true, the women in question have a right to be annoyed, wouldn't you say?

5) If those problems do exist, why should you have to change EVERYTHING about your company? It's not like you're asking all the male developers to get their penii cut off or something.

6) What if the best person for the job is a woman, but she's discouraged by the male-dominated culture? What if she has to work harder for the same outcome? Is that not a problem, assuming it's true?

7) Citation needed! A helluva lot of people who call themselves "feminists" want women to have a fair shot. No more than that. Also, can I point out here that one does not need to be a feminist to believe that female dominance is a necessary state. Just as one does not have to be a member of the KKK to believe that caucasians are naturally better than non-caucasians. Not that I'm equating feminists with a racist movement, you understand.

 

[Aaron Sylvester]

It's always a "problem" when women (and only women) are under-represented in something, isn't it?

All those myths are based realities and facts, so they really aren't myths. I do like Elizabeth Sampat's enthusiasm, however she is coming off as intentionally ultra-positive in order to encourage more women to get into the game development. It's a good effort I guess.

Are some employers and organizations biased against female applicants? Absolutely! But that is purely one of the many side-effects of the root cause/trend, it's inevitable and it is impossible to eradicate a single side-effect like that.

This was taken just recently at GDC 2014, notice a pattern in the audience:

From high school and university itself it is painfully obvious that women have very little interest in anything to do with the complexities of software engineering or even computers in general, and even out of those that are interested very few make it to the end. I did some subjects like electronics, programming (C++ and Java), 3D CAD, etc and there were a grand total of 2 girls in our classes of 40+. In my main subjects (Network Engineering) there were no females whatsoever. Obviously anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, but I'm not the only one who has seen something like this, I would argue most universities and technical institutes see similar trends...

...and I see absolutely nothing wrong with it because that's simply how things have turned out to be. I don't see it as a "problem" when X gender is under-represented in Y profession. When you are dealing with such huge trends on global scales it is impossible to lay the blame on anyone or anything because it's ultimately at the mercy of time and extremely gradual change.

Pursue what you want to pursue, overcome the difficulties you face. That is the way of life.