Ghost in the Shell Casting Shows We Need More Than White Feminism

[Baresark]

I see the both the validity and ridiculous nature of this article.

You should give lesser known actors who fit the ethnic identity of a character a chance. ScarJo isn't the best actress (not bad mind you, not bad at all, just not really all that great IMO). It just would make more sense to pick someone who at least is likely to have a Japanese name in real life (ie. Someone who is of Japanese decent or is Japanese).

Now that I got that out of the way:

Hollywood, for all it's progressive pushing, does not give a shit about the above. From a logical standpoint, what I said makes sense. But no-name actors do not draw to a movie. Like it or not, they are not making a movie for a niche audience. Hollywood will ALWAYS cast based on looks and general attraction of the audience. It's how they make money. Theatre is identical. They will cast a worse actor/actress in a role that looks right, than cast the better actor/actress. This is universal truth in anything that is extremely public facing.

Also, movies are made with a sense of rhetoric. That is, they are made for the audiences they are meant to appeal to in mind. If this movie was going to be a big deal in someplace like Japan, they might change their tune. But I don't imagine this is meant for anything of the sort. I think this is meant for American, European and maybe Australian audiences, which are predominantly white last I checked, so it's not such a big stretch to think that they will cast a white person for the role.

All of this said: I would rather see a Japanese actress in this role. Realistically, it should be a cast of mostly Japanese thespians. Not that I think the characters are, artistically, distinctly Japanese in the Manga or any of the accompanying Anime, it just makes sense to me for it be that way. But this seems to be a movie aimed at mostly American audiences, so it shouldn't surprise anyone that it's not.

Edit:

This is Hollywood to a T.

 

[hentropy]

Having already basically starred in a Live Action Anime (Pacific Rim) and invariably is booked for it's sequel; Being an Asian action star: Maybe Rinko Kikuchi was offered the role, but turned it down so she wouldn't be type cast in the future.

Also beyond this casting choice, do we really know anything about this movie yet?

It's possible that Kikuchi was offered the role and turned it down. It's also possible that they didn't audition a single Asian actress. It's pure speculation and pointless to bring up, unless there's evidence one way or another.

What we know about the film beyond ScarJo is that it's being directed by Rupert Sanders, his only prior directing credit being Snow White and the Huntsman... I'll let you judge for yourself on that one. It's being produced by Avi Arad and Steven Paul... Arad's biggest recent production is The Amazing Spider-Man series and various other... movies. Paul has only one other movie, a Tekken adaptation, in the works.

Here's another question:

Other than character names, what is there about GitS and it's setting that is actually uniquely Japanese?

It's set in Japan and all the main characters are Japanese special law enforcement agents. Most of the main cast is Japanese, as in they have Japanese personas.

Personally I don't like the idea that something can only be "uniquely Japanese" if it's set in old Kyoto with everyone wearing kimono and/or being samurai. GitS does have some focus outside of Japan, but it is still set there with most of the characters being Japanese. The story details and setting would have to be reworked to a significant degree in order to localize it.

It might be possible for it to be a good movie even with ScarJo and localization to NYC or whatever, but given the film's current leadership, the casting decision seems to have more to do with cynicism and money-grubbing than it does with Johansson really be the best fit for the part.

I don't personally think "they're only doing it for the money" gives someone a pass for doing something wrong. In fact, it makes it worse.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Whatever. Just whatever. Scarlett's a fine choice.

 

[hentropy]

I don't personally think "they're only doing it for the money" gives someone a pass for doing something wrong. In fact, it makes it worse.

as i said before it's a business...not a school play.

And? Does simply being a business mean that someone is immune from criticism when they do something stupid for greedy reasons? What you're saying is a non-sequitur. The people at Stormfront are private citizens and are allowed to express their views, and I'm also allowed to say that they are wrong.

Contrary to popular belief, it is possible to be a business who isn't constantly doing crappy things. It's also possible to be a business and negatively affect society for purely greedy reasons.

I don't think it's quite that bad in this case. Rupert Sanders being the director offends me more than Johansson being the Major. But take the case of the movie "21", a movie based on true events, where literally all of the people involved in real life were Asian and were whitewashed into white people for the movie with the two Asian characters being reduced to comic relief sidekicks. It was something done for purely monetary reasons, and it was wrong. Just like when companies pump carcinogens into the air because it saves them a buck or when GM neglects to fix an ignition problem because it might cost money. It's wrong, and "a business exists to make money" doesn't excuse the wrongness.

 

[The Choke]

Legit question, why not cast Sigourney in an Expendables movie? That sounds bad ass.

actually i thought that too while writing it but given its a Stallone controlled "testosterone fueled" franchise i doubt it would turn out well in the end.

Eh, maybe so. Maybe Stallone is just too scared to ask a girl taller than him to join in the movie

Ronda Rousey. She could roundhouse me any day. And oddly enough, she's in Expendables 3. She started as an actual fighter and not an actress, so I don't know if she counts...

On topic: I definitely do not like Ms. Johansson, and that's just on a personal level. I also have some mixed feelings about properties that are very nostalgic and meaningful to me getting the Hollywood treatment. I almost think the only way this could work would be a complete departure from the original material. But if you're doing that, why bother making a GitS movie in the first place?

Oh, what the hell. At least it's not Kristen Stewart.

 

[Kaiser0120]

Commonly, as well, you?ll find both black and white men in Britain. A black Bond makes sense, to a certain extent.

i'd never saw a black person in the flesh until i was 18.

and when i did they were two American basketball players bought in for the local team who bought up the local video shop as a business concern on the side...and btw everyone thought they were cool as fuck...which kinda actually freaked them out...

tell me how common "black" people are in the UK again ?...

oh ye. outside the South of England and Caribbean immigrants ("the windrush generation") their descendants and a few followers on...not very at all actually.

sry but perhaps the biggest joke about Demoman is black Scots basically don't exist...

plenty of ("former empire") "brown" tho.

and ofc plenty on the telly because guess where all that is based...the South of England.

there are probably more "black" people on Eastenders than in the entirety of the "shire" in which i live.

here, as in America, they are actually hugely over represented in the media compared with their actual demographic percentages.

the 2011 census place percentages of black people in the UK at 3.01% ("asians" are 6.92%...and that includes "asians" AND "asians" ;P)

just to throw that into perspective that means if you collected a perfectly balanced sample of 100 people only 3 of them would be black...

in the US the demographic percentage of black people is apparently 12.2% according to wikipedia.

Fair enough, I altered my post to reflect that. But still, nearly 2 million black folk in the UK. I still think a Black Bond isn't out of the question.

 

[Kennetic]

Almost makes me think if people would be mad if there was an American Ace Attorney movie, have a think.

You have no idea how bad I want an America Ace Attorney movie. Hell, a tv show or mini-series would be pretty awesome.

 

[VonBrewskie]

hear, hear! i'm tired of movies clearly meant for non-white characters getting whitewashed. blackface and yellowface is shunned, but hiring white actors to play non-white characters seems only one or two steps removed from that old, racist practice.

 

[Dizchu]

I'm pretty sure they cast Scarlett Johansson because she's a "big name" right now and it'll encourage non-anime fans to watch this. I sincerely doubt that there was a deliberate attempt to undermine Asian actresses. Would Johansson be good as the character of Motoko Kusanagi? I don't know. Maybe? Maybe not? Maybe she's just born for the role? I don't think any of us can say for certain until the film comes out.

But I'm gonna be realistic here. Statistically there is gonna be an Asian actress that is more suited for the role than she is. I probably would prefer an Asian actress play Motoko Kusanagi... no, scratch that... I'd personally prefer it if the whole production was done in Japan and all the actors were Japanese... speaking in Japanese. Actually sod all of this I'm grabbing my DVD of the original Ghost in the Shell.

This film will probably suck. It might not though. But what will make it a good film or not will not depend on the ethnicity of its actors (though it'll feel less faithful to the original). That seems to be the point of contention, not whether or not the film will be any good but how well it'll hold up to the original film.

Personally I don't think we should make a big deal out of it for that very reason. Catwoman starring the mixed-race Halle Berry was a trainwreck despite Berry being a well-liked actress with an Academy Award. Selina Kyle has traditionally been depicted as white. How much better would the film have been if they had a white actress?

Guys put down your pitchforks and angry placards, we have bigger fish to fry.

 

[Jake Martinez]

To me, the real crime here is that a terrible actress is being cast in another big budget sci-fi movie instead of someone (anyone!) who can actually act.

Issues of "representation" always sound like something interesting to get upset about over until you start asking yourself practical questions:

"What ratios of representation should we have in films?"
"How should we decide or deduce what these ratios are?"
"Who should be the people to be in charge of deciding this?"
"How do you enforce some system like this?"
"Does this change over time? How do we change this?"
"What happens if you just really want to make a character that is of a race/gender that is already over represented?"

As you can see, once you get past the pretend outrage, there are a lot of practical problems with any sort of suggestion that we need "more representation" of any sort in media, starting of course, with what this even looks like and ending with how do you force people to cast/write characters in the "correct" ratios (and how is this decided? empirical research? star chamber illuminati? popular vote?)

Look, if someone wants to put forward the idea that the type of popular feminism practiced by middle class, college educated, white women is largely ineffectual and panders to the bourgeois, then I'm going to be forced to agree with them. After all, there's a mountain of observable evidence to support this conclusion. However, the idea that we can implement some sort of diversity quota system in media seems outlandish along the lines of Kafka's "The Trial" - that is, more like intending to implement a perpetual kangaroo court designed simply to be perpetually "outraged" over perceived slights based on a self totalizing belief system.

 

[deth2munkies]

Because anime girls overwhelmingly look like white women by design.

Sorry, but somebody had to say it.

 

[Metalrocks]

You know who I think would be awesome in the role, but Hollywood won't go with her for "reasons"?
Pacific Rim's Rinko Kikuchi.

(No! Don't! It makes TOO much sense!)

Except Scarlett Johansson is fine with nudity and Rinko Kikuchi isn't and the major does not have a nudity taboo.

actually rinko was nude in the movie babel. she played a deaf character and tried everything to get laid but because of her problem, she got rejected a lot. was a good drama too.

otherwise, yes, already in PR she looked like motoko and i think she would be a suitable role for it.

 

[SNCommand]

actually she was nude in the movie babel. she played a deaf character and tried everything to get laid but because of her problem, she got rejected a lot. was a good drama too.

otherwise, yes, already in PR she looked like motoko and i think she would be a suitable role for it.

Besides, the nudity will be very downplayed if there at all, all hints seem to conclude that the movie will be PG-13 to rake in the dollar, I'll be shocked if they seek to capture Shirow Masamune's "preferences"

 

[SNCommand]

Personally I don't think we should make a big deal out of it for that very reason. Catwoman starring the mixed-race Halle Berry was a trainwreck despite Berry being a well-liked actress with an Academy Award. Selina Kyle has traditionally been depicted as white. How much better would the film have been if they had a white actress?

It also torpedoed her career, ending the high profile roles she had been receiving since winning her academy award, seems like only recently that she's been making a return

This whole project screams trainwreck, I don't think we want to smudge the reputation of say Rinko Kikuchi with it

 

[Metalrocks]

actually she was nude in the movie babel. she played a deaf character and tried everything to get laid but because of her problem, she got rejected a lot. was a good drama too.

otherwise, yes, already in PR she looked like motoko and i think she would be a suitable role for it.

Besides, the nudity will be very downplayed if there at all, all hints seem to conclude that the movie will be PG-13 to rake in the dollar, I'll be shocked if they seek to capture Shirow Masamune's "preferences"

just wanted to clarify the nudity part of the actress. thats all.
but lets hope it will not be a PG13 movie. just alone the political and diplomatic conversations is what made these movies so mature and really good. i highly doubt a young person will understand that.
and besides, it was only in part 1 were she was naked wile in part 2 she wasnt. well, she wasnt really around in her well known body.
if it would be a bad thing if she would be naked, that rally depends how accurate they capture the original. there at least it was kept in a mature way. so as in babel. she was completely naked but it was treated in a mature way that didnt really sexulize the matter.

 

[ecoho]

SJ was chosen for the same reason Idris Elba was chosen for Heimdall in thor. Shes a good actor and will most likely do the part justice, in fact other then the young woman from pacific rim I cant think of a better actress to play the Major
period and though good Rinko Kikuchi does not have the star power to sell seats. so yeah SJ is the best actress for this role. Its also good to point out that none of the characters in Ghost in the shell look traditionally Asian.