Ghost in the Shell Casting Shows We Need More Than White Feminism

[Trishbot]

You know who I think would be awesome in the role, but Hollywood won't go with her for "reasons"?
Pacific Rim's Rinko Kikuchi.

(No! Don't! It makes TOO much sense!)

Except Scarlett Johansson is fine with nudity and Rinko Kikuchi isn't and the major does not have a nudity taboo.

And Jessica Alba has a no-nudity clause and yet was cast as Nancy in Sin City, and nobody is frothing at the mouth saying she ruined the film.

Besides, it's not like the Major spends the vast majority of her time giving the audience full frontal. I watched several seasons of Stand Alone Complex where she kept her clothes on 99% of the time.

 

[rembrandtqeinstein]

99% of the jobs with the highest serious injury/death rates are done by men

in the US the life expectancy gap between men and women is around 5 years in favor of women

when until people claiming to care about "equality" address those concerns they don't deserve to be taken seriously

 

[Kaiser0120]

99% of the jobs with the highest serious injury/death rates are done by men

in the US the life expectancy gap between men and women is around 5 years in favor of women

when until people claiming to care about "equality" address those concerns they don't deserve to be taken seriously

Seriously dude? This has nothing to do with any of that. You want to talk about that, go make a post about it somewhere else on the forum; this discussion literally has 0% to do with that conversation.

I have no problem with the casting. We don't know to what extent the movie is going to follow the 1995 anime. But even if we did, I still don't have a problem. It's just an anime movie. It's not like it's about a historic figure and the race of the characters matters like if someone had cast Denzel Washington to play George Washington.

There's a double standard here. Most people on The Escapist (I remember this) claimed that they wouldn't have a problem with a black James Bond, despite him being an iconic character with a long history. The dude is Scottish. But you have a problem with this all of a sudden? With an anime character being played by a non-Asian? Really? Do you really?

Bond is not defined by his ethnicity.

He?s British.

He?s male.

He?s handsome and charming.

He?s also been interpreted by several different actors and, ultimately, it?s become more and more heavily implied that each Bond is a different person altogether. Reinterpretations of that character?s race are bound to happen. Commonly, as well, you?ll find a looot more black men in Britain than Caucasians in Japan. By at least ten times. A black Bond makes sense, to a certain extent. It's not a stretch and it only would only help to reinvent and explore the character in new ways.

 

[RandV80]

as a fan of Asian cinema...they do have their own industry y'know...plenty of (extremely famous and accomplished) Asian women cast there...

there's more to the world than the Hollywood zeitgeist...and i see no reason why Hollywood should not equally serve its own (primarily home) market demographics.

that said it would be nice if Ghost in the Shell was an international production...but US audiences don't generally go to see foreign language films afaik.

"asians" are 4.75% of the US population according to wikipedia ("whites" are 72.41%) people like to see representations they can equate with themselves.

there's not much potentially culturally affecting value to a film that fails at the box office...

the "draw" of specific headliners is an important factor both in terms of securing production and eventual economically viable success.

atm the fact Hollywood is prepared to make women the headline in blockbuster action movies and the audience is prepared to go along with it is a good thing.

in short Scarlet puts bums on seats...is trailblazing in that respect to a certain extent (given the types and size of film projects she is and is going to be involved in)...i see very little to condemn about that.

Rinko Kikuchi might be good...in a recent "visible sense"...but can she do that kind of work?..and how many people would actually go see a Rinko Kikuchi headlined move compared a Scarlet one ?

far less is the uncomfortable real world answer to that...

...and at the end of the day this a billion dollar business we're talking about not a school play.

This, it's a non issue and definitely not a feminist issue. It's a western American take on a Japanese property so it's not an issue if a white, extremely popular ScarJo is cast as the lead. If there is a big huge outcry from Japan or the nip community then we get to ponder if we're awful for "whitewashing".

All depends if it's an American adaption of another countries property which Ghost in the Shell is or if it's an American movie set in a place that is distinctly ethnic like Exodus, Last Airbender ect ect. I half bet that this American Adaption of Ghost in the Shell will be set in a big USA city.

Almost makes me think if people would be mad if there was an American Ace Attorney movie, have a think.

Well not quite. In this specific case they're making a big budget movie and need to get buts in seats, Scarlett Johannsson is a big draw so it makes sense. Also this is American $$$ adapting a Japanese property, so it's likely they'll just take the same concept and set it in New York instead of Tokyo or something, therefore the characters will be representative of the US and you can't really call it 'white washing'... except maybe this is set a decent amount in the future and ethnic diversity in the US increasing so it could be seen as that if the rest of the cast is white, but that's a different topic.

But, we're just looking at a box office draw leading role here, the film industry is much bigger than that and the problem is more of a top to bottom thing. I see this pretty well first hand living in a film industry city (Vancouver) with my girlfriend who's an Asian actor at the TV one liner level. With a large Asian population in Vancouver there's a lot of Asian actors, and it's certainly more of a challenge to be seen for regular roles and not just 'dim sum waitress' or something like. Which in her case those auditions tend to be a bit of a disaster as she's not Chinese and her attempt at Asian accents are pretty bad!

I'd say what people want here are to be able are for roles to be more colourblind so anyone can be seen regardless of race. An example of an inspiratonal actor for my gal is from the much internet maligned TV show Scorpion, is Jadyn Wong who plays the mechanical genius Happy. The show doesn't do a single thing about the fact that she's Chinese and she could easily be swapped out in the role for someone who was white, black, hispanic, etc etc.

Like I said, this specific example is okay because Scarjo is a lead attraction, but Hollywood needs to open up from top to bottom in the manner of my Happy example.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Bond is not defined by his ethnicity.

He?s British.

He?s male.

He?s handsome and charming.

He?s also been interpreted by several different actors and, ultimately, it?s become more and more heavily implied that each Bond is a different person altogether. Reinterpretations of that character?s race are bound to happen. Commonly, as well, you?ll find both black and white men in Britain. A black Bond makes sense, to a certain extent.

I'm not arguing about Bond. I even have an idea of my own which black actor could play him perfectly. I'm just using him as an example of why ethnicity doesn't matter in this case.

 

[T_ConX]

Excuse me while I recycle a comment I made for the original new story...

Oh crap! Better go burn down Tumblr before the Social Justice Wankers start bit-

Cans of whitewash still experiencing strong sales in Hollywood...

Mokoto Kusanagi... played by Scarlett Johansson. Huh. Wonder how they're going to play off the fact that she's not remotely japanese.

Although if we had a movie centered around a japanese actress we'd all probably just explode from too much change.

Suit 1: "OK, we have a film about a Japanese robot woman leading a group of Japanese government agents against cyberpunk crime in Japan. Who should we cast? That chick from Pacific Rim, uh... Rinko Kikuchi?"
Suit 2: "How about Scarlett Johansson?"
Suits 3-6: "Perfect!"

No

For the simple reason that the Major isn't a blond, blue eyed white woman and never was.

Psst... Scarlett is actually a brunette, and I hate your guts for making me Google 'scarlett johansson natural hair color'. Still, it's not as bad as when I started typing this out.

So you mean to tell me that Hollywood still can't find a decent up and comming asian actor to play what is basically an asian woman's role?

What next --- is Mulan going to be a live action movie with a tall, green eyed red headed woman with Celtic painting on her face?

Roles should fit the creation, this is why a lot of these movies die quickly. They need to open themselves up to a more diverse pool of actors than the same 10 actors.

They couldn't find one Japanese-descent actress? Really?

Aw fuck I'm too late.

Ghost in the Shell Casting Shows We Need More Than White Feminism

Ethnic minorities are prevented from playing white characters

Two words: Black Annie.

Let's just ignore the fact that there's a movie in theatres RIGHT NOW that stars a young black actress play a character that is traditionally portrayed as a ginger.

Also, since we're talking about Japan, let's just ignore the fact that Akira Kurosawa directed not one, not two, but three different movies based on the work of William Shakespeare. Also, forget about the two Miyazaki movies that are based off of English novels.

Also, this anime based off of Anne of Green Gables. Seems it's open season on us gingers.

But, I mean, come on, it's not like the Japanese would ever make an TV adaptation of a American comic book francise and cast a Japanese actor as the traditionally white lead right?


If you're still salty about ScarJo playing the Major, then I suggest you go hang out with the dudes who are still angry over Idris Elba playing a Norse God.

 

[Karadalis]

Ethnic minorities are prevented from playing white characters,

Yeah... marvels calling... they aparantly dont have a problem with that.. Nick Fury? Human torch?

That said.. yes it is incredibly stupid to ignore the source material... anime most often is HEAVILY influenced by japanese worldview. To "americanize" such an anime for western audiences will only destroy what made the anime/manga great and apealing to people in the first place. Not only that but the whole story most likely will make absofuckinglutely no sense to anyone anymore. See the disaster that the now binned Akira project became.

And casting the wrong ethnecity for the wrong roles is allways a big issue.. and it doesnt matter what skin color or what gender. As soon as you disrespect the source material you might throw the entire thing into the trashcan.

 

[Darth_Payn]

I'm not looking forward to the movie, mostly because I don't think Hollywood can do the anime any true justice. What is worse though is that when they cast ScarJo, I knew these kind of opinion pieces were on the horizon. Not that I necessarily agree or disagree with them but because they always sound so whiny, "oppressed", and read like they belong on a tumblr blog, but with an editorial staff.

And thus you have answered my question, "WTF did I just read?!" In all this bitching about the problem, I didn't find anything that sounded like a workable solution.

 

[hentropy]

Am I the only one who would like to see more ethnic/Asian actors in movies for no other reason than it's more interesting than seeing the same three women in every female leading role? That would get tiring no matter what race the actresses were.

Akira and GitS were bound to be awful live-action adaptations from the start, in any case. I wouldn't want any promising Asian actors attached to them, as they're bound to be busts.

I simply cannot stand all the extraneous bullshit people want to force into these discussions. I like J-Law and ScarJo, they're talented, but I don't want to fucking see them in everything. If a movie is set in Japan, it should probably have Japanese actors. I don't know why it should be more complicated than that.

 

[Dango]

There are Asian actors who are repeatedly denied roles.

Now that's a poor choice of words right there. No one is being "denied" here, and saying so is well... incorrect.


The fact of the matter is Scarlett Johansson is a really popular action star right now, and if there was an Asian star that was at her levels of popularity they would be starring in this movie. That's ignoring the fact though that Johansson actually quite looks the part, probably more so than any Asian actress I can think of, and it's not hard to imagine her in the role.

Lastly, most of the backlash is going to be coming from the western world anyway, as I can guarantee you Japan is gonna eat this movie up, as they tend to do with all big name western action movies.

 

[Ruisu]

that said it would be nice if Ghost in the Shell was an international production...but US audiences don't generally go to see foreign language films afaik.

Not to get too "off topic" from your full comment, but this is one of the main reasons I hope international box office becomes more relevant than 'home' box office as time goes on. Maybe this can evolve into more support for movies that are interesting to other audiences other than US, or even produced outside of hollywood. (and I say that as someone who lives in brazil.)

 

[Rellik San]

Here's a question and it's one no one has answered:

Having already basically starred in a Live Action Anime (Pacific Rim) and invariably is booked for it's sequel; Being an Asian action star: Maybe Rinko Kikuchi was offered the role, but turned it down so she wouldn't be type cast in the future.

Also beyond this casting choice, do we really know anything about this movie yet?

Or are we going to all sit here and pretend that playing Racial Chess by picking and choosing which roles should be given to which actors is any more or less racist than this casting choice? Because so far I've not seen any evidence to suggest Kikuchi has even ever wanted this role and saying she should do it because she's Japanese and good at stunts is just really fucking racist to be blunt.

 

[Aaron Sylvester]

Lastly, most of the backlash is going to be coming from the western world* anyway

*US
As with the backlash to anything with the words "female", "sexism", "misogyny", "racist", "black", "white" in the news/article/editorial

 

[Sleepy Sol]

I'm not looking forward to the movie, mostly because I don't think Hollywood can do the anime any true justice. What is worse though is that when they cast ScarJo, I knew these kind of opinion pieces were on the horizon. Not that I necessarily agree or disagree with them but because they always sound so whiny, "oppressed", and read like they belong on a tumblr blog, but with an editorial staff.

And thus you have answered my question, "WTF did I just read?!" In all this bitching about the problem, I didn't find anything that sounded like a workable solution.

That's my main problem with this article. What can we really do about this issue (if we do perceive it to be an issue) ourselves?

Though, honestly, I doubt many Japanese people actually feel 'oppressed' or somesuch by this casting.

It is rather disappointing that they didn't want to make the effort to find a Japanese actress, but it's not exactly particularly upsetting.

Also, that last paragraph is really weird. A bunch of subordinate clauses in a row - because, because, because. But that's just an error I noticed that isn't particularly important to the content of the article. Also a couple spelling errors.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Hey, Rush! RUSH! LOOK! Hollywood is at it again! This time it's not Idris taking a role, but Scarlett!

Rush? It's kind of quiet over there, bud. What's up?

can you name a Hollywood Asian actress you think would draw the same number of people (thus justifying the blockbuster budget this film will have) to the theaters by headlining such a film ?

i mean it took me a while even come up with Rinko Kikuchi...and she's never headlined such a movie and most people would be like "who ?".

seriously whatta ya got ? Lucy Liu ?

some things...are..."easy to say"...and not much else.

Grace Park [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Park_(actress)] is smoking to some. People like Lindsay Price [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsay_Price]. There's acceptable Asian Facsimile Kristin Kreuk [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristin_Kreuk]. My personal Man-boner would pierce whatever celestial bodies that were actually in the Heavens if it was Michelle Yeoh [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Yeoh]. That woman does something to me.

Anyway, is it more of a point that there aren't any big name Asian Actresses that has the chops to bring people in, or no one wants to be the first to try? Not wanting to cast Denzel in any more oversea films as the headliner because he doesn't sell there is one thing [http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/12/sony-email-hack-denzel-washington-black-leads-international-audience-racist/]. Yeah, I get that people are really choosy with their male leads.

But people are stupid and are into base things. One of the most common fetishes in the world of Porn is Asian. Asian women are the second most 'acceptable female race [https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=why+do+guys+love+asian+women]' in the world. If Hollywood wanted to, yeah, I think they'd have no problem if they got an asian woman hot enough and who kicked ass.

So, no, I don't think an American Movie company would fail with an Asian female lead if they marketed it right.

 

[Rect Pola]

When issues like this come up, it's rarely a "bad thing, done by bad people" issue. It's more of a "Not cool in a broad perspective" issue. Sure there's a ton of numbers on the trends, and yeah it sucks, but for all we know they approached casting her exclusively because she can make the role work (the butts-in-seats factor don't hurt either). BUT since she's white in a historically not-white role it's another tic of the "whiteness of hollywood" counter.

Yeah, the face of the issue sucks, especially in an property that made the point of being set in japan. I'd love to see more broad-minded casting, thinking long and hard if a character *has* to be a certain race. Fortunately, the more they mine american comics the sooner we'll know if things are going in that direction. America's comic history on the whole isn't exactly a racial smorgasbord.

 

[Rellik San]

Here's another question:

Other than character names, what is there about GitS and it's setting that is actually uniquely Japanese?

Because I'm seeing a lot of people bark about how GitS is such a Japanese show and it could only Japanese and I'm thinking to myself: "Have you people ever read William Gibson or Phillip K. Dick?"

 

[SNCommand]

It's a hollywood movie though, of course they're going to hire a big name hollywood actor, that means most likely white, and thanks to the Marvel movies no one is more sought after than Scarlett Johansson, there's nothing wrong with that choice

The movie is going to be an absolute mess though, you got the director of Snow White and the Huntsman working with Dreamworks of to make a live action rendition of Ghost in the Shell, everything about that team up smells disaster, this is going to be one movie I'm going to keep tabs on just for the massive trainwreck that's incoming

They're likely going to cut back on some of the more "raunchy" parts of the work they're adapting as well, don't expect anything like the scene where Major Kusanagi wears her skintight flesh colored suite and tries to pull off the lid on a tank, muscles bulging and all, don't expect any subtlety as well, the preceding parts of the fight with the tank would be completely different, hollywood would demand dubstep action music in the background instead of the choir, and more explosions and gun fire instead of using quiet moments to create tension and juxtaposition

This is going to be bad, Shyamalan's Last Airbender bad, I don't think we want one of Hollywoods few female asian actors to be dragged down by this disaster, instead people should simply enjoy the original adaptation more, fans of Avatar: The Last Airbender learned that long ago